/sci/ - Science & Math » Thread #11984293

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This is fucking retarded beyong belief

Anonymous Fri 07 Aug 18:04:10 2020 No.11984293 View Reply Original Report

Quoted By: >>11984302 >>11984311 >>11984363 >>11984364 >>11984424 >>11984507 >>11985030 >>11985976 >>11986031 >>11986394 >>11986396 >>11987594 >>11987790

>huurrrr the cats not dead till we can confirm it
yeah, okay.
Your wife is loyal too if you see her enter a nigger's apartment, BUT you dont actually see her fuck the black man. Yeah, tottally not a cuck

What a retarded fucking thought experiment

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 07 Aug 2020 18:05:28 No.11984302 Report

Quoted By: >>11984311 >>11984469

>>11984293
>What a retarded fucking thought experiment
Schrödinger thought the same
It's supposed to be a counterexample

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 07 Aug 2020 18:07:36 No.11984311 Report

Quoted By: >>11984469

>>11984293

This anon is right >>11984302. Schrödinger constructed the thought experiment as a criticism of the Copenhagen interpretation.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 07 Aug 2020 18:19:53 No.11984363 Report

Quoted By: >>11984531 >>11985832

>>11984293
Forget about cats, quantum mechanics don't work with objects bigger than elementary particles.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 07 Aug 2020 18:19:59 No.11984364 Report

Quoted By: >>11984367

>>11984293
>have to make a BBC cuck analogy in order for you and other people around here to better comprehend and understand how bullshit this is
Anyways, yeah it's bullshit.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 07 Aug 2020 18:21:14 No.11984367 Report

Quoted By:

>>11984364
Most people here are Amrerican, so...

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 07 Aug 2020 18:40:12 No.11984424 Report

Quoted By:

>>11984293
>Mutt's law before the thread even begins
How do you Americans manage to always do this?

Anonymous

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Anonymous Fri 07 Aug 2020 18:55:30 No.11984469 Report

Quoted By:

>>11984302
>>11984311
And yet popscifags today and even many working physicists ate up Bohr's vague collapse bullshit and think Schrodinger succeeded in proving that QM is weird. Bohr won in the end.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 07 Aug 2020 19:04:32 No.11984507 Report

Quoted By:

>>11984293
based

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 07 Aug 2020 19:11:41 No.11984531 Report

Quoted By: >>11984928 >>11986392

>>11984363
>Forget about cats, quantum mechanics don't work with objects bigger than elementary particles.

I don't think you understand. Poisonous gas is released determined by a quantum measurement. I think the quantum measurement was the decay of some isotope, since it's supposed to be a purely quantum mechanical even and therefore random. The measurement triggers the gas which kills the cat or not. I know QM already violates causality, but what are you implying exactly?

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 07 Aug 2020 19:49:02 No.11984658 Report

Quoted By:

Probabilities for the measurement of a superposition of states are different from the probabilities for the measurement of a (classical) statistical mixture of states. You can prove it by constructing the corresponding density matrices. (And also can verify that in experimental settings; you are able to distinguish a uniform mixture of photons in two orthogonal polarized states from the photons which are in a superposition of those same states using a polarizer)

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 07 Aug 2020 21:19:59 No.11984928 Report

Quoted By: >>11984984 >>11985795

>>11984531
i dont know why but i always hear "schrodinger's cat" explained as "a cat in a box is simultaneously alive and dead until you observe it".
I don't know how people started just going with that when it makes zero sense ansent the context of the killing mechanism being determined by a quantum measurement.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 07 Aug 2020 21:31:56 No.11984971 Report

Quoted By: >>11985042

Tell me this, quantumfags.
Is the idea of quantum particle states being changed by observation simply a result of the fact that all observational methods will have some kind of effect on the particle's state? Or would it still hold true if the particle were observed through some hypothetical (perhaps impossible) method that allowed you to simply observe it without interaction?

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 07 Aug 2020 21:35:38 No.11984984 Report

Quoted By:

>>11984928

TV shows are especially bad for this. The writers try to simplify the thought experiment for ease of communication and completely miss the point as a result. Seeing as most people only ever encounter Schrödinger's Cat in Science™ TV shows, they don't actually know about the quantum mechanics aspect.

Anonymous

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Anonymous Fri 07 Aug 2020 21:53:26 No.11985030 Report

Quoted By:

>>11984293
are you by any chance american?

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 07 Aug 2020 21:56:33 No.11985042 Report

Quoted By: >>11985274

>>11984971
apparently, still holds true. "Interaction-free" measurements are possible due to the nonlocality of quantum mechanics (see Bell's inequality). You can do such a measurement using a Mach-Zehnder interferometer, for instance. (strictly speaking, experiments can never be completely ‘interaction-free’, so a more correct term would be ‘measurement with minimal interaction’)

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 07 Aug 2020 23:23:27 No.11985274 Report

Quoted By:

>>11985042
as far as i can tell, an "observation" in quantum physics can be defined as any interaction that a previously isolated quantum system has with the outside world, so i guess an interaction-free observation is categorically impossible when using terms in context, since even minimal interaction instruments have to measure some kind of interaction the subject had with the outside world.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 08 Aug 2020 03:54:43 No.11985795 Report

Quoted By: >>11985950

>>11984928

But why does the mechanism have to be explained? It's only given to illustrate a point. In general if quantum randomness is real, then the cat is still in a superposition since all it's atoms are in superposition. The mechanism help to understand but would still be true if no mechanism is given explicitly.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 08 Aug 2020 04:17:38 No.11985832 Report

Quoted By: >>11985835

>>11984363
Not actually true any more, there was a study not two long ago that replicated the two slip experiment with "bucks balls" which are essentially a bunch of carbon atoms stuck together.
They aren't what you'd call macroscopic, but they are definitely bigger than elemental particles

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 08 Aug 2020 04:20:23 No.11985835 Report

Quoted By: >>11987622

>>11985832
Man autocorrect screwed me on tthis one.
I meant to say "two slit experiment" and "bucky balls"

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 08 Aug 2020 05:29:39 No.11985950 Report

Quoted By: >>11986732

>>11985795
>But why does the mechanism have to be explained?

Because the entire point of the thought experiment is to magnify a quantum mechanical effect to a macroscopic scale. Schrödinger was questioning the Copenhagen interpretation by creating a scenario in which it would imply that a large-scale system could exist in a superposition (by tying it to a superposed quantum particle). He believed the dead/alive cat superposition to be preposterous and thus a refutation of the Copenhagen interpretation.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 08 Aug 2020 05:56:34 No.11985976 Report

Quoted By:

>>11984293
but thats just cause the cat in the box interacts with particles, or the system decomposes fast

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 08 Aug 2020 06:43:13 No.11986031 Report

Quoted By:

>>11984293
What do you think science is? It's empiricism.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 08 Aug 2020 10:55:14 No.11986392 Report

Quoted By: >>11986737

>>11984531
Yeah but it's impossible to maintain a macro system in a quantum superposition. I seem to remember some fundamental argument as to why an experimental apparatus meant to maintain a large system in superposition should ba at least a certain size, can't find it though.

Anonymous

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Anonymous Sat 08 Aug 2020 10:57:23 No.11986394 Report

Quoted By:

>>11984293
>this thread

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 08 Aug 2020 10:58:09 No.11986396 Report

Quoted By:

>>11984293
Literally the point of the thought experiment. To show how ridiculous entanglement is

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 08 Aug 2020 14:56:41 No.11986732 Report

Quoted By:

>>11985950
>He believed the dead/alive cat superposition to be preposterous and thus a refutation of the Copenhagen interpretation.

It is preposterous. The problem is people today are just dumb. Schrodinger thought his equation solved for charge density.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 08 Aug 2020 14:59:54 No.11986737 Report

Quoted By: >>11987537

>>11986392
>Yeah but it's impossible to maintain a macro system in a quantum superposition.

Yes, I know. Whenever you want to test the principles of quantum mechanics, it fails and some guy invents a rule and it becomes cannon. The cat experiment should be tried on a human and after they can report if they were a zombie or not. It might take a few dead bodies, but empirical observation is the basis of science.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 08 Aug 2020 19:41:56 No.11987537 Report

Quoted By: >>11987645

>>11986737
It's called Wigner's friend.

Anonymous

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Anonymous Sat 08 Aug 2020 19:52:44 No.11987594 Report

Quoted By:

>>11984293
We need flags.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 08 Aug 2020 19:59:14 No.11987622 Report

Quoted By:

>>11985835
Do you talk about buck's balls often? Jc

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 08 Aug 2020 20:03:21 No.11987645 Report

Quoted By:

>>11987537
>Wigner's friend

This paradox proves QM is bullshit.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 08 Aug 2020 20:05:08 No.11987650 Report

Quoted By:

Shouldn't decoherence solve the problem? Once the isotope decays and interacts with the machine that releases the poison the cat is dead, until it doesn't it's alive.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 08 Aug 2020 20:49:40 No.11987790 Report

Quoted By:

>>11984293
that's the point, dumbass

wow

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 08 Aug 2020 21:27:48 No.11987890 Report

Quoted By:

>only wife and mister know about it
>in the eyes of those two the husband is a cuck
>nobody else knows, and each person has a unique observational frame of reference
>for the two observers, husband is cuck
>husband hasn’t observed it, life goes on
>husband’s friend observed the affair while driving by during the day
>friend has now opened the box and observed that the husband is a cuck
friend tells friend 2 what happened
>friend 2 doesn’t know if it’s true or not, friend 1 tends to lie
>friend 2 now ponders... “Husband is kinda chad and I don’t see him being a cuck...but at the same time that wife stacy used to hunt in the Jungle back in high school” (both scenarios exist in his observational frame of reference)
>friend 2’s observation has not been confirmed, the box isn’t open until he...
>drives by the house the next week. He sees Tyrone pull up to Husbands house
>box is open, the slight chance that chad husband was uncucked is gone. The box is open and the.cat is dead. But since chad husband was actually a huge faggot the whole time and friend any low iq normie would assume that rumors are true, retards like you OP miss the point of the thought experiment.

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