/sci/ - Science & Math » Thread #11979892

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Anonymous Thu 06 Aug 08:12:45 2020 No.11979892 View Reply Original Report

>buy quantum mechanics textbook
>400 pages of wave equations
>doesn't talk about quantum entanglement
>no mention of quantum eraser experiment
>ignores everet interpretation entirely
>ignores all the cool quantum shit

is there a non-meme book that will actually explain quantum mechanics to me?

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 06 Aug 2020 08:16:46 No.11979900 Report

Quoted By: >>11979903 >>11985325

>>11979892
try youtube

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 06 Aug 2020 08:19:41 No.11979903 Report

Quoted By: >>11979985 >>11980430 >>11982953 >>11985243 >>11986947

>>11979900
honestly i don't want some pop sci 'le quantum is so weird' shit, that's why i bought a textbook. the problem is that the textbook doesn't actually discuss any of the major concepts, you don't see the forest from the trees, and it's generally pretty boring.

any other textbooks? i don't mind doing calculus btw as long as it gets to the points i mentioned

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 06 Aug 2020 08:24:58 No.11979911 Report

Quoted By: >>11979933 >>11979970

>>11979892
You want cool shit, go to wikipedia.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 06 Aug 2020 08:35:18 No.11979933 Report

Quoted By:

>>11979911

This.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 06 Aug 2020 08:53:36 No.11979970 Report

Quoted By: >>11984023

>>11979911
Wikipedia is garbage for learning. It's okay for reference but when an article is written by 20,000 people there's no structure.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 06 Aug 2020 09:00:02 No.11979985 Report

Quoted By: >>11980000 >>11980658 >>11981714 >>11985293

>>11979903
It sounds like you want to run before you can walk. Popular science books will do an ok job of explaining these things qualitatively. But if you want to understand where these things come from and how they work you need to use mathematics. Our brain's aren't used to the probabilistic world of quantum mechanics so the only way of truly understanding is via the underlying mathematics.

If you want answers now, read popular science - john gribbin's "In search of Schroedinger's cat", or whatever its called, is a nice level. If you want to understand these things then go through the textbooks, I'd use Griffiths. The latter is not a brief journey but I think its a rewarding one.

You mention the textbooks not mentioning the "major concepts", with respect you have no idea what are and are not the major concepts until you are more familiar with the subject, people just always use those clickbait concepts to get views because they are strange and interesting.

Source, 2 years in to my mathematics/physics PhD.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 06 Aug 2020 09:12:07 No.11980000 Report

Quoted By: >>11980016 >>11980786

>>11979985
well the book in the picture is griffiths and i'm already working through it. the problem is that it doesn't cover experiments and yes the major concepts - this isn't up for debate: decoherence, entanglement, delayed choice experiments, EPR etc. are all major concepts which is why so many papers are written about them.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 06 Aug 2020 09:14:22 No.11980003 Report

Quoted By:

Anon, it says right there that it's an introduction

Anonymous

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Anonymous Thu 06 Aug 2020 09:15:26 No.11980004 Report

Quoted By: >>11980092

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 06 Aug 2020 09:22:39 No.11980016 Report

Quoted By: >>11980024 >>11980046 >>11981714

>>11980000
I know the book in the picture is Griffiths, that is why I mentioned you should use it. Papers are cutting edge research using the foundations of the subject which you don't have. I didn't say these things aren't important, I just meant that you aren't ready for them, you haven't even covered introductions to the subject yet. You will need to go through these first then progress to higher level texts before you can fully follow what you want to.

I have met a lot of people in my time who enjoyed discussing these things but didn't want to put the work in to understand it, my undergrad was rife with these people. There is nothing wrong with just enjoying talking about them but you need to decide whether you do it properly or not. If you do then I suggest you trust the wisdom of the authors and follow the structure of study that has worked for the last 50 years.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 06 Aug 2020 09:32:23 No.11980024 Report

Quoted By: >>11980046 >>11980050 >>11980146

>>11980016
okay thanks so after i finish this book is there any book i can read to get a general overview of the state of the art in qm? i don't wanna devote all my time to this, i just want to get up to date. the last general book i read was written in 1970...

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 06 Aug 2020 09:35:11 No.11980028 Report

Quoted By:

>>11979892
You're mixing up quantum mechanics as a mathematical framework with the philosophy of QM (which is basically the only thing pop-sci ever covers).

If you want all the "cool shit" without the math, you should be looking at books in the section of philosophy of quantum mechanics

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 06 Aug 2020 09:37:49 No.11980032 Report

Quoted By:

where can i learn about hugh everett's interpretation it seems really cool

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 06 Aug 2020 09:44:17 No.11980046 Report

Quoted By: >>11980055 >>11980068

>>11980016
>>11980024
Feynman's lectures on QM are also a good introduction to QM. It's not highly mathematical. It mainly strives to make you understand some concepts of QM. It's a small book, so don't expect it to be in depth.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 06 Aug 2020 09:46:59 No.11980050 Report

Quoted By: >>11980068 >>11980146

>>11980024
Good question, its depends somewhat on your background of mathematics, I think http://kgut.ac.ir/useruploads/1505647831850hcd.pdf is a fairly good resource and if you're brave this could even replace Griffiths as a more modern resource. You may just have to research a little around some of the more briefly described concepts.

Following that, I would hope you'll have enough of a basis to be reading with more understanding about the concepts you described.

There unfortunately won't be 1 resource with all that you've asked, the reason is it is too wide of a scope, this is (by scientific standards) a brand new subject and we are still just finding our feet.

Best of luck mate, hope you get the answers you're looking for.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 06 Aug 2020 09:47:45 No.11980053 Report

Quoted By:

>>11979892
>quantum mechanics textbook
>400 pages of wave equations what QM is
>no talk of pop-sci memes like multiverse and shit
Anon, I think you've been had. Better ask for a refund.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 06 Aug 2020 09:48:39 No.11980055 Report

Quoted By:

>>11980046
Excellent point, its an excellent resource for conceptual understanding. The man was a master of qualitative descriptions of abstract concepts.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 06 Aug 2020 09:54:54 No.11980068 Report

Quoted By:

>>11980050
>>11980046
based. i think i have enough suggestions now.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 06 Aug 2020 09:56:55 No.11980076 Report

Quoted By:

The book is just the foundation of those things. No one going to write a book about a topic that no one fully understand it yet. What you should be reading are scientific papers if you want the "cool quantum stuff".

Find an author/research group or a journal on the topic and start reading some papers, they will usually lead to other papers and you will get the picture of the most important publications from those.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 06 Aug 2020 10:07:16 No.11980092 Report

Quoted By: >>11980095

>>11980004
Absolute trash! Just confusing.
Get a proper book with proper math and take your time learning the math.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 06 Aug 2020 10:08:38 No.11980095 Report

Quoted By: >>11980184

>>11980092
Some physicists have praised it, and Susskind himself is a physics professor.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 06 Aug 2020 10:31:21 No.11980146 Report

Quoted By:

>>11980024
As >>11980050 has suggested, there are many resources that can replace Griffiths altogether.
Another way of learning QM is to go through these courses on ocw
https://ocw.mit.edu/courses/find-by-topic/#cat=science&subcat=physics&spec=quantummechanics

In my opinion these are pretty good and get quite in depth. Also nothing beats a teacher teaching any kind of topic.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 06 Aug 2020 10:34:24 No.11980153 Report

Quoted By:

>>11979892
>"introduction to"
Are you retarded?

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 06 Aug 2020 10:48:01 No.11980184 Report

Quoted By: >>11985616

>>11980095
You can say the same for every book on QM.
That book is a cheap dumbed down take on QM for who doesn't understand math. If you read any other book on the subject you know what I'm talking about.
At the end it depends on your goals. If you want a superficial and qualitative look at QM it maight be ok.
Personaly, I find that book confusing, but that is just my esperience.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 06 Aug 2020 12:18:52 No.11980346 Report

Quoted By:

>>11979892
sakurai. i liked griffith's quantum, but it's not a very good book for preparing you for advanced QM

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 06 Aug 2020 12:32:09 No.11980379 Report

Quoted By:

The Bible

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 06 Aug 2020 12:51:41 No.11980430 Report

Quoted By:

>>11979903
Fermilab, Sean Carroll, and other people who actually do quantum physics have their own youtube channels with plenty of hard information about QM
Sorry I can't give more names, I'm high as a kite

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 06 Aug 2020 12:55:37 No.11980441 Report

Quoted By:

>>11979892
>is there a non-meme book
Yes
You literally fucking got "Intro" to QM, and one of the most dumbed down at that

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 06 Aug 2020 14:31:41 No.11980625 Report

Quoted By:

It's because it's higher level stuff that's hard to comprehend. For example, spin wavefunctions are entangled when you symmetrize/anyosymmetrize them. What you need is a mentor to bring the concepts to you because most books suck.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 06 Aug 2020 14:45:18 No.11980658 Report

Quoted By:

>>11979985
What sort of math should I be learning? I'm an undergrad math/physics. I've done linear algebra, multivariable Calc and differential equations. Is there anything else that's really helpful?

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 06 Aug 2020 15:39:17 No.11980786 Report

Quoted By: >>11980924

>>11980000
Just looked at my second edition of Griffith's as I recalled it covering entanglement. Index lists 203, 422-423. It's brief, but it's there.

You literate?

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 06 Aug 2020 16:01:10 No.11980821 Report

Quoted By:

>>11979892

What’s cool about Everett’s interpretation? The logical conclusion (no matter how much some people deny it) is that we’re going to end up in infinite misery in our own lonely universes until the heat death of the universe. And, really, we should forcibly sterilize everybody on earth so that they won’t have kids that will also have to go through this misery.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 06 Aug 2020 16:45:58 No.11980924 Report

Quoted By:

>>11980786
It sounds like OP wasn't expecting to actually learn quantum mechanics but instead wanted an explanation on the "interesting" topics.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 06 Aug 2020 17:00:16 No.11980965 Report

Quoted By:

>buy QM book (Zetteli's)
>long chapter about double slit experiement
>Schrödinger's equations is an axiom
>book doesn't calculate double slit theory any QM-way later in the book

What I learned: particles have probabilistic position and momentum, Schrödinger's eqationg gives that probability (after introducsing wave functions complex conjugate, integrating all space and scaling to one).

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 06 Aug 2020 19:58:15 No.11981446 Report

Quoted By: >>11981466

>>11979892
Yes! That book is called The Theoretical Minimum to Quantum Physics by Leonard Susskind. It can be read by anyone with a little linear algebra/ calculus and a decent portion of the book deals with entanglement.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 06 Aug 2020 20:05:25 No.11981466 Report

Quoted By: >>11981480

>>11981446
not him but is this the first book or do you mean the whole series?

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 06 Aug 2020 20:07:58 No.11981474 Report

Quoted By:

The Picture Book of Quantum Mechanics-Springer Publishing

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 06 Aug 2020 20:08:38 No.11981480 Report

Quoted By:

>>11981466
There’s a whole series that’s excellent. I have a degree in physics and still have really enjoyed the way he explains things. Might want to read the initial “The Theoretical Minimum” if you’ve never studied physics before.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 06 Aug 2020 20:13:32 No.11981504 Report

Quoted By:

>>11979892
It's because those things only became hip in the last 20 years.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 06 Aug 2020 21:17:21 No.11981714 Report

Quoted By:

>>11979985
>>11980016

What this anon says. Try to first get a firm grasp of the basics; also study relativity if you have not done so. The reason is that many people forget qm is an incomplete nonrelativistic theory, to get a better picture one should at least glance at qfts.

t. 2 months into physics PhD.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 07 Aug 2020 03:07:09 No.11982551 Report

Quoted By:

>>11979892
>>ignores all the cool quantum shit
You bought the "Intro" to QM books OP, of course its only really going to cover the basic stuff and not the cool shit that pop-sci keeps trotting out.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 07 Aug 2020 03:19:46 No.11982579 Report

Quoted By:

>>11979892
https://www.amazon.com/Quantum-Mechanics-Vol-Claude-Cohen-Tannoudji/dp/047116433X

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 07 Aug 2020 05:28:50 No.11982877 Report

Quoted By:

>buy quantum mechanics textbook
read the table of contents before you buy lol

>400 pages of wave equations
yes this is bad

>doesn't talk about quantum entanglement
you want quantum information theory. nielsen and chuang or something.

>no mention of quantum eraser experiment
nobody cares about this

>ignores everet interpretation entirely
nobody cares about this

>ignores all the cool quantum shit
name one

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 07 Aug 2020 05:34:13 No.11982901 Report

Quoted By:

Everett is for communists. Good to be left out of a book.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 07 Aug 2020 05:57:36 No.11982953 Report

Quoted By:

>>11979903
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLQrxduI9Pds1fm91Dmn8x1lo-O_kpZGk8
Here's Leonard Susskind's videos. They're probably what you're looking for.

Anonymous

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Anonymous Fri 07 Aug 2020 06:00:01 No.11982955 Report

Quoted By:

>>11979892

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 07 Aug 2020 09:56:52 No.11983282 Report

Quoted By: >>11983305

>>11979892
>doesn't talk about quantum entanglement
>no mention of quantum eraser experiment
>ignores everet interpretation entirely
>ignores all the cool quantum shit
please tell me this is bait. physics is mostly math, not voodoo nonsense and popsci trash. if you want to learn about unfounded theories about one faggot busting a nut and his gay lover feeling it instantaneously go read fairy tales. the quantum eraser nonsense is just someone's claim and is yet to really be validated. as for good books, read sakurai

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 07 Aug 2020 10:04:34 No.11983300 Report

Quoted By:

Ballentine's book Quantum Mechanics, a modern development

Le Bellac's books on QM and quanum information are very up to date and well-written

Nielsen & Chuang's book will give an overview of all the cool stuff

Rule of thumb: if the book has no Dirac notation, it will be just introductory tier

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 07 Aug 2020 10:06:16 No.11983305 Report

Quoted By:

>>11983282
Sakurai has Bell inequalities and entanglement in it, bet you feel silly now huh

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 07 Aug 2020 11:00:21 No.11983391 Report

Quoted By: >>11983574

>>11979892
You can donate me the textbook if ya dont mind as i live in a poor country and no one here gives af about Qm

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 07 Aug 2020 13:04:04 No.11983574 Report

Quoted By:

>>11983391
You can torrent the book for free.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 07 Aug 2020 16:28:07 No.11983989 Report

Quoted By: >>11987540

>>11979892
>nobody has brought up these comprehensive introductions:
>Quantum Mechanics for Mathematicians
https://www.amazon.com/Quantum-Mechanics-Mathematicians-Graduate-Mathematics/dp/0821846302/ref=sr_1_3?dchild=1&keywords=Quantum+physics+for+the+mathematician&qid=1596817611&s=books&sr=1-3

>Quantum Theory for Mathematicians
https://www.amazon.com/Quantum-Theory-Mathematicians-Graduate-Mathematics/dp/146147115X/ref=sr_1_4?dchild=1&keywords=Quantum+physics+for+the+mathematician&qid=1596817669&s=books&sr=1-4

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 07 Aug 2020 16:38:07 No.11984023 Report

Quoted By:

>>11979970
Are you autistic by any chance?

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 07 Aug 2020 18:16:47 No.11984347 Report

Quoted By: >>11984472

>using a standard undergrad class textbook hoping to find grad level material

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 07 Aug 2020 18:56:02 No.11984472 Report

Quoted By: >>11985539

>>11984347
So if a layman wanted to know a little bit about Godel's incompleteness theorem, or linkage analysis, or P = NP, or the Riemann Hypothesis, you would just tell them no kiddo you have to get a degree first? Almost everything can be explained simply by removing details irrelevant to the general idea, and in fact many people have done so. This is just elitism.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 07 Aug 2020 19:00:58 No.11984485 Report

Quoted By:

>>11979892
if you don't like wave equations learn quantum chemistry. We do everything with linear algebra like matrix mechanics

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 07 Aug 2020 23:11:43 No.11985243 Report

Quoted By:

>>11979903
If i remember right the PBS YouTube channel gets into quantum mechanics that goes into more detail into it then just "lol dead and alive at the same time!" But not as much detail as a text book.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 07 Aug 2020 23:28:47 No.11985293 Report

Quoted By: >>11986212

>>11979985
>Popular science books will do an ok job of explaining these things qualitatively
if this were true then there wouldn't be so many people who think the "observer effect" on a subject is the effect of a conscious mind's awareness of the subject

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 07 Aug 2020 23:48:06 No.11985325 Report

Quoted By:

>>11979900
lmao. this is state of /sci/quantum.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 08 Aug 2020 01:23:26 No.11985539 Report

Quoted By:

>>11984472
or just get the grad textbook and go from there?
OP is using the wrong books for what he wants. That's all.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 08 Aug 2020 02:06:45 No.11985616 Report

Quoted By: >>11985675 >>11986203

>>11980184
Then how about you fucking recommend a good QM book rather than talk shit about an introductory book not having enough material.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 08 Aug 2020 02:38:26 No.11985675 Report

Quoted By: >>11986203

>>11985616
This. Please recommend a good QM book

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 08 Aug 2020 08:45:41 No.11986203 Report

Quoted By: >>11986753

>>11985616
>>11985675
It depends on your goals. For me Molecular quantum mechanics by Atkins did the job because I'm a chemist.
There is no "good book" on QM, as in any other field, that is "good" in an absolute sense.
Take a list of QM books (from Amazon, quora, or any other site), download them in pdf from libgen, read the preface of those books, find the one wich is the best for your job, and buy it if you can.
There will never be a book that will cover all the aspects of QM but all books have a list of contents and a preface.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 08 Aug 2020 08:52:58 No.11986212 Report

Quoted By:

>>11985293
>on a subject is the effect of a conscious mind's awareness of the subject
This was a question that actually many physicists discussed in old quantum theory, so it's not that dumb. Also see https://physics.stackexchange.com/questions/9857/what-is-an-observer-in-quantum-mechanics and witness how many terrible answers are given from actual physicists.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 08 Aug 2020 08:59:26 No.11986219 Report

Quoted By:

>>11979892
stick to youtube, dummy

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 08 Aug 2020 09:54:31 No.11986289 Report

Quoted By:

https://www.amazon.com/Cosmic-Code-Quantum-Physics-Language/dp/0486485064

Highly recommending this from 1982. You can get it from used books sites for few bucks. Goes through all the history of QM and every scientist involved.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 08 Aug 2020 10:02:26 No.11986302 Report

Quoted By:

>>11979892
that's tough man

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 08 Aug 2020 10:03:04 No.11986303 Report

Quoted By:

depending on your interest some quantum mechanics books written by pchemists are better. As far as a book focusing on the many worlds interpretation Its really better to learn the copenhagen interpretation first and then have other interpretations to compare. If you're looking for just the many worlds go read a pop-sci book.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 08 Aug 2020 10:06:06 No.11986311 Report

Quoted By:

Modern Quantum Chemistry: Introduction to Advanced Electronic Structure Theory is a great text on a lot of the cool applications of quantum while explaining the linear algebra

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 08 Aug 2020 10:08:04 No.11986314 Report

Quoted By:

>>11979892
>explain quantum mechanics
I don't think you got the point. Shut the fuck up and calculate.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 08 Aug 2020 15:07:43 No.11986753 Report

Quoted By:

>>11986203
Alrighty thanks Shanties

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 08 Aug 2020 16:54:21 No.11986947 Report

Quoted By:

>>11979903
>>11979892
Seems like you got metaphysics mixed up with physics

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 08 Aug 2020 19:42:00 No.11987540 Report

Quoted By:

>>11983989
These books were great for me, but my background is math not physics so I prefer the definition, theorem, proof style. I can't seriously read a physics textbook it feels like a different language desu.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 08 Aug 2020 21:49:07 No.11987956 Report

Quoted By:

Here you go senpai

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=KZ67q4pv0HI

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 08 Aug 2020 23:32:57 No.11988383 Report

Quoted By:

Are you on 4chan?

Anonymous

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Anonymous Sun 09 Aug 2020 13:23:32 No.11990141 Report

Quoted By:

>>11979892
>ignores all the cool quantum shit

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 09 Aug 2020 18:29:22 No.11991159 Report

Quoted By:

>>11979892
the name of the book is introduction to quantum mechanics, don't expect the cool quantum shit

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