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Molten metal

Anonymous Thu 02 Jul 19:59:26 2020 No.11861147 View Reply Original Report

Quoted By: >>11861543 >>11861701 >>11863617

Hi /sci/, I have a question regarding molten metal. Suppose I had a mixture of metal oxides that were reduced so that oxygen is removed. In this mixture are several different metals. How would I go about making a metal ignot comprised of multiple pure layers of the different metals?

Obviously each of these metals have different melting points. Could I have a prolonged, controlled burn to cause the metals to separate by varying the temperature? Any external resources to videos or papers would be appreciated. BTW, this isn't a homework question. This is a purely hypothetical question I'm trying to answer but I can't find any definitive resources for.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 02 Jul 2020 21:40:34 No.11861522 Report

Quoted By: >>11861556 >>11861572

Materials science fag here, typically the metals would be reduced separately. If you wanted you can then join them together by welding. This can cause problems if your not careful, as some metals welded together can cause Galvanic corrosion. If for some reason you needed to reduce everything in the same furnace you would need to check an Ellingham diagram to see at what partial pressure of O2 and at what temperature the oxides will reduce. If you are not careful and mix in a pure metal like Aluminum with some Metal oxides you can inadvertently cause an exothermic reaction similar to that of thermite. If you want to see what alloys are possible to make then you can check one of the many phase diagrams available (just search metallic phase diagrams). If you already have an alloy and need to separate it then that can be complicated, and you probably have to use chemical separation methods, which is more costly and time consuming then just reducing them separately. This topic is within Materials science, specifically Metallurgy (although a solid state chemist / inorganic chemist might be good with this stuff too). A good place to start with Materials science is the Callister Introduction to materials science and engineering book (although you need to say its materials science since we are on sci). If you have any more questions or need more resources let me know.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 02 Jul 2020 21:45:23 No.11861543 Report

Quoted By: >>11861561

>>11861147
get hot, spin real fast in centrifuge

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 02 Jul 2020 21:49:29 No.11861556 Report

Quoted By: >>11861673

>>11861522
Thanks for the reply anon. So assuming I'm working in a vaccum, and I have a mixture of metal oxides that all get reduced via electrolysis, how would I go about separating the metals? As I understand, at high temperatures the metals become a soup, and by letting them cool to a solid and then slowly reheating and holding at each metals melting point, I couldn't separate them?

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 02 Jul 2020 21:50:34 No.11861561 Report

Quoted By: >>11861691

>>11861543
how would that separate the metals?

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 02 Jul 2020 21:54:32 No.11861572 Report

Quoted By:

>>11861522
I've looked into various metallurgy techniques over the last week, and while they all would solve my problem on Earth, given atmosphere and an infinite supply of reactants, my problem lies in the vaccum of space.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 02 Jul 2020 22:24:22 No.11861673 Report

Quoted By: >>11861705

>>11861556
You can to a certain degree do this to get some phases out, but you will still be left with an alloy. Also there is no guarantee that the phases coming out during freezing are pure anyway. This type of thing is very dependent on your system, and you would definitely need to check the phase diagrams for your specific alloy. The typical sure fire way to separate the alloys is with chemical methods. Although even if you could separate an alloy this way it would still be cheaper and easier just to reduce them separately, as it takes less energy to sort the ores then it does to go through repeated heating and freezing.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 02 Jul 2020 22:30:53 No.11861691 Report

Quoted By: >>11861742

>>11861561
by density

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 02 Jul 2020 22:34:23 No.11861701 Report

Quoted By: >>11861734

>>11861147
Are we talking about just "mixed metals" or actual alloys? Its a big difference, in the latter case the alloys can form a homogen structure, for separation you would need chemical agents for sure. In the first case you can use centrifuges to separate the metals based on density, heat to separate them based on melting point, or even something exotic, like magnetism.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 02 Jul 2020 22:34:54 No.11861705 Report

Quoted By: >>11861753

>>11861673
My problem is that I am indeed trying to make an alloy, but a specific alloy from from a collection of metals, while removing all the other metals that are not desired in the alloy. In addition to this, the process will happen in a vacuum and with limited or no chemical supplies for separation. Due to the nature of the environment, the ability to heat up and cool down won't be a problem.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 02 Jul 2020 22:43:19 No.11861734 Report

Quoted By:

>>11861701
Here's what going to happen in this system:

It's in vaccum. A collection of metal oxides will be placed in a chamber where electrolysis will reduce the oxide metals, venting the oxygen and leaving behind a mixture of pure elements. I need to find a way that with zero chemical distillation, I have to separate each of the metals except for two, which will be the alloy I want.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 02 Jul 2020 22:44:31 No.11861742 Report

Quoted By: >>11862948

>>11861691
How would you filter by density for something that is spinning very fast and very hot, while leaving the metals you want?

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 02 Jul 2020 22:47:14 No.11861753 Report

Quoted By: >>11861783

>>11861705
Then you should refine all the metal ore separately to get pure metals, and then you can choose which ones and in what % ratio you want to add them. No manufacturing process makes alloys by trying to reduce everything together. Alloys are also very dependent on how much of each metal is being added, and without measuring the ratio of metals in your alloy your going to get a mess.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 02 Jul 2020 22:58:10 No.11861783 Report

Quoted By: >>11861868

>>11861753
This is what I've feared all along. In theory then, suppose I have a collection of pure metal powder. If I increase the heat to each melting point of each metal, siphon off the metal I don't want somehow, and repeat the process until I get the metals I do want, would that work? Any metal that I don't want whose melting point is higher than the metals I'm aiming for I could simply pass through a filter to remove those.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 02 Jul 2020 23:29:35 No.11861868 Report

Quoted By: >>11861959

>>11861783
Probably not, as many liquid metals can dissolve solid metals. At this point you can use various separation techniques to remove whatever metals your want (like if you had iron you could pass a magnet over it to take it out). You could also use the centrifuge at this point, but only because you have a powder and no alloy yet. Alloying metals should probably be all the way at the end of your processing.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 03 Jul 2020 00:05:05 No.11861959 Report

Quoted By: >>11862004

>>11861868
Indeed, my alloy will be at the end of processing.

So how would a centrifuge separate the metal? I get ferromagnetic elements like Iron, however my concern is that after reducing of the oxides, the iron would lose it's magnetic property from experiencing so much heat. I would have to remagnetize it to restore that property.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 03 Jul 2020 00:26:58 No.11862004 Report

Quoted By: >>11862009

>>11861959
sound ineffective
have you looked into the chlorine refining process?

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 03 Jul 2020 00:29:31 No.11862009 Report

Quoted By:

>>11862004
I can't use chemical distilling in this environment.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 03 Jul 2020 09:50:00 No.11862936 Report

Quoted By:

Oh dear God. I should have made the title to be "HHEEEEELLLPPP!!!"

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 03 Jul 2020 09:54:10 No.11862948 Report

Quoted By: >>11864065

>>11861742
>filter
did you know that when you spin stuff real fast, the denser molecules and atoms push through the lighter stuff and wind up underneath it? like blood?

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 03 Jul 2020 16:51:24 No.11863617 Report

Quoted By:

>>11861147
>multiple pure layers
Use vacuum deposition such as evaporation or sputtering.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 03 Jul 2020 19:27:55 No.11864065 Report

Quoted By:

>>11862948
It makes sense anon. So all I do is spin it? If I had a crucible and spun it without spewing the contents, the metal would seperate into layers?

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