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Sugar is not the cause of diabetes.

Anonymous Sun 28 Jun 08:09:16 2020 No.11845302 View Reply Original Report

Quoted By: >>11845530 >>11845792 >>11845861 >>11845989 >>11846399 >>11848692 >>11849198 >>11849203 >>11849215 >>11853136

Obesity causes manganese deficiency, which causes diabetes. Obesity itself is caused by high fat diet and copper deficiency.
https://europepmc.org/article/med/3312521
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3973834/
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5510220/

Disprove/discuss.

Anonymous

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Anonymous Sun 28 Jun 2020 09:41:17 No.11845439 Report

Quoted By: >>11845492 >>11849203

High fat diet is keto and people lose weight consistently using it, so I'll call fake and gay.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 28 Jun 2020 10:16:52 No.11845492 Report

Quoted By:

>>11845439
Diabetes isn't caused by obesity, but by the lack of manganese. There is no strong connection between diabetes and obesity in many countries and lean diabetics are common. High fat diet can cause both, as it causes obesity, and reduces Mn absorption:
https://pubs.acs.org/doi/10.1021/bk-1987-0354.ch012#
>The higher level of dietary fat generally increased fecal excretion of manganese and increased serum lipids. Dietary supplementation with 40 mg of manganese increased both fecal excretion and whole blood concentration of the mineral but had no effect on serum lipids or fecal fat.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 28 Jun 2020 10:41:53 No.11845530 Report

Quoted By: >>11845687 >>11845697 >>11845987

>>11845302
If you know this and it is true, why don't you go earn a nobel prize?

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 28 Jun 2020 11:43:00 No.11845687 Report

Quoted By: >>11846097

>>11845530
There seems to be a trail of research articles going decades back, it's just being ignored for some reason.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 28 Jun 2020 11:47:43 No.11845697 Report

Quoted By: >>11845987

>>11845530
Because the Nobel prize is not awarded for the scientific importance of a new discovery but only for the political impact.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 28 Jun 2020 12:22:59 No.11845792 Report

Quoted By: >>11845847

>>11845302
Constant sugar spikes over time can lead to insulin resistance, though, In the same way flooding your body with alcohol all the time makes you less susceptible to its effects.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 28 Jun 2020 12:45:06 No.11845847 Report

Quoted By: >>11845850

>>11845792
Manganese protects from diabetes. The resistance is from manganese deficit, not sugar.

https://academic.oup.com/endo/article/154/3/1029/2423360

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 28 Jun 2020 12:46:39 No.11845850 Report

Quoted By: >>11846022

>>11845847
Why are there different types of Diabetes then? Why can it be caused by pregnancy, genetics and old age?

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 28 Jun 2020 12:53:27 No.11845861 Report

Quoted By: >>11845889 >>11846022

>>11845302
>Obesity itself is caused by high fat diet
Wut?

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 28 Jun 2020 13:05:25 No.11845889 Report

Quoted By:

>>11845861
it usually is
its pretty hard to eat that much calories without an excess of fat

Anonymous

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Anonymous Sun 28 Jun 2020 13:34:34 No.11845935 Report

Quoted By: >>11846022

>manganese deficiency makes the body reject insulin
read the studies you posted before saying shit like that. the second study says that there is an association between manganese deficiency and diabetes because it's suggested that manganese plays a role in the sugar balance process. this means that manganese deficiency is a risk factor, not the main cause.
first and third study just show that obese mice tend to have mineral deficiency, that copper makes rabbits get more mass but less fat and that minerals are good as if no one knew that minerals are good in balanced quantities

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 28 Jun 2020 14:01:25 No.11845987 Report

Quoted By: >>11846715

>>11845530
>>11845697

Can you lads then explain to me why Bret Weinstein hasn't received a Nobel Prize (or at least mainstream scientific notoriety/acknowledgement) for his work revealing the evolutionary bias of Telomere lengths in lab mice, and the ramifications this has for the pharmaceutical industry?

Anonymous

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Anonymous Sun 28 Jun 2020 14:02:18 No.11845989 Report

Quoted By: >>11845998 >>11846022

>>11845302
> Obesity is caused by eating fat.
Sauce?

Anonymous

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Anonymous Sun 28 Jun 2020 14:05:16 No.11845998 Report

Quoted By: >>11846022

>>11845989
>eat a lot of calories because fat is very calorie dense
>get fat
woah

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 28 Jun 2020 14:16:31 No.11846022 Report

Quoted By: >>11846050 >>11846064 >>11846399 >>11849215

>>11845850
Manganese reserves getting exhausted by pregnancy or poorly absorbed or retained because of genetics or old age.
>>11845861
>>11845989
>>11845998
It's virtually impossible to get fat without high fat food. You need to feed high fat and only high fat food when you want to study fat animals, or the animals just won't eat enough to get fat.
>>11845935
Diabetes is a problem with balancing sugar. Manganese does cause diabetes.
Then why nobody deals with it if everybody knows? Do you think somebody wants to keep people ill?

Anonymous

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Anonymous Sun 28 Jun 2020 14:31:52 No.11846050 Report

Quoted By: >>11846057 >>11846336 >>11848649

>>11846022
>discussing diabetes while literally not knowing what it is
the absolute state of this board

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 28 Jun 2020 14:34:54 No.11846057 Report

Quoted By:

>>11846050
What do you think it is??

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 28 Jun 2020 14:37:55 No.11846064 Report

Quoted By: >>11846159

>>11846022
>Manganese reserves getting exhausted by pregnancy or poorly absorbed or retained because of genetics or old age.
That doesn't explain why there are different kinds of diabetes (type 1, 2 and insipidus)

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 28 Jun 2020 14:53:38 No.11846097 Report

Quoted By: >>11846159

>>11845687
You do realize that "it's complete bullshit" counts as "some reason", right?

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 28 Jun 2020 15:18:10 No.11846159 Report

Quoted By:

>>11846064
I mean type 2 of course. Type one is from your insulin producing cells dying. Insipidus is an unrelated disease that happens to share a similar name.
>>11846097
Why is it bullshit? Has it been disproven?

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 28 Jun 2020 16:17:45 No.11846336 Report

Quoted By:

>>11846050
It is essentially correct that it is a problem with balancing sugar though.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 28 Jun 2020 16:37:39 No.11846399 Report

Quoted By: >>11846426

>>11845302
Manganese is only one mineral that plays a role in insulin secretion and glucose tolerance. Diabetics have a derangement of numerous minerals, as well as hormonal derangements.

>>11846022
>It's virtually impossible to get fat without high fat food. You need to feed high fat and only high fat food when you want to study fat animals, or the animals just won't eat enough to get fat.
Fructose is almost always added to diets when studying obesity in animals. It's the combination that causes issues. Also, fructose and fat metabolism in lab animals are not always comparable to humans, so that needs to be kept in mind when trying to extrapolate results to humans.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 28 Jun 2020 16:46:37 No.11846426 Report

Quoted By: >>11846572

>>11846399
>Fructose is almost always added to diets when studying obesity in animals.
This is false.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 28 Jun 2020 17:20:26 No.11846572 Report

Quoted By: >>11846703 >>11846714 >>11846721

>>11846426
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5140012/

Increased chicken-derived fat and fructose consumption in the human diet is paralleled by an increasing prevalence of obesity and metabolic syndrome (MS). Herein, we aimed at developing and characterizing a mouse model of diet-induced obesity (DIO) resembling most of the key features of the human MS. To accomplish this, we fed male C57BL/6J mice for 4, 8, 12, and 16 weeks with either a low-fat diet (LFD) or a high-chicken-fat diet (HFD) and tap water with or without 10% fructose (F). This experimental design resulted in the following four experimental groups: LFD, LFD + F, HFD, and HFD + F. Over the feeding period, and on a weekly basis, the HFD + F group had more caloric intake and gained more weight than the other experimental groups. Compared to the other groups, and at the end of the feeding period, the HFD + F group had a higher adipogenic index, total cholesterol, low-density lipoprotein cholesterol, fasting basal glycemia, insulin resistance, hypertension, and atherogenic index and showed steatohepatitis and systemic oxidative stress/inflammation. A mouse model of DIO that will allow us to study the effect of MS in different organs and systems has been developed and characterized.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 28 Jun 2020 17:56:27 No.11846703 Report

Quoted By:

>>11846572
I'm not saying no studies have been made. I'm denying it's a standard procedure.
Anyway, fructose causes iron overload and copper deficiency in rats, so it's probably not applicable to humans who can process fructose normally.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 28 Jun 2020 17:58:43 No.11846714 Report

Quoted By: >>11851831

>>11846572
https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0107206

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 28 Jun 2020 17:59:02 No.11846715 Report

Quoted By:

>>11845987
i also want to know this. maybe ill make a new thread. it really does sound like an important discovery.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 28 Jun 2020 18:01:15 No.11846721 Report

Quoted By:

>>11846572
>tap water with or without 10% fructose (F).
They basically gave them choice between overeating znd dehydration.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 29 Jun 2020 03:06:19 No.11848649 Report

Quoted By:

>>11846050
This board is literally dunning-k.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 29 Jun 2020 03:16:29 No.11848687 Report

Quoted By:

This is a schizo thread. You cannot correct their beliefs because you cannot cure their schizophrenia. Stop giving (You)s to crazy people.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 29 Jun 2020 03:17:08 No.11848692 Report

Quoted By: >>11849167

>>11845302
http://learnmem.cshlp.org/content/23/7/386.full.html
>Figure 1A shows the timeline of behavioral experiments. Rats in the sucrose consumption group had access to 10% sucrose solution for 2 h each day for 24 d, as well on each of the 4 d of behavioral training and testing. Rats that consumed sucrose did not differ in body weight from control rats (F < 1) (Fig. 1C)
>Analysis of the retroperitoneal and gonadal fat pad weights (Fig. 1F) revealed that rats which consumed sucrose had significantly greater body fat than control rats (t(22) = 2.3, P < 0.05). Thus, despite consuming similar amounts of energy, rats that consumed sucrose developed greater adiposity than control rats.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 29 Jun 2020 05:55:28 No.11849167 Report

Quoted By:

>>11848692
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3261305/

Anonymous

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Anonymous Mon 29 Jun 2020 06:15:48 No.11849198 Report

Quoted By: >>11849203 >>11849222

>>11845302
>Sugar is not the cause of Diabetes
That's right. The rest of your post is crackpot bullshit though.
https://www.diabetes.org.uk/guide-to-diabetes/enjoy-food/eating-with-diabetes/diabetes-food-myths/myth-sugar-causes-diabetes
>With Type 2 diabetes, though we know sugar doesn’t directly cause Type 2 diabetes, you are more likely to get it if you are overweight. You gain weight when you take in more calories than your body needs, and sugary foods and drinks contain a lot of calories.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23880355
>In the present study, we investigated the association between dietary intake of carbohydrates and the risk of type 2 diabetes.
>These prospective findings suggest that the intakes of starch and sucrose are not associated, but that those of fructose and glucose are inversely associated with diabetes risk.
http://www.diabetes.org/diabetes-basics/myths/
>Is diabetes caused by eating sugar?
>A diet high in calories from any source (including sugar) contributes to weight gain and weight gain increases your risk for type 2 diabetes. Type 1 diabetes is caused by genetics and unknown factors that trigger the onset of the disease. Type 2 diabetes is not caused by sugar, but by genetics and lifestyle factors.
It's still an open question as to what does cause it, but the academic consensus leans towards weight gain, particularly since you can even find reliable connections between different specific kinds of fat deposits on the body and your risk for it.
>The mechanisms by which visceral obesity results in insulin resistance appear to be related to excess lipid accumulation in liver. This may be due to excess fatty acids from visceral adipose tissue draining into the portal vein.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4038351/#S11title
>High fat diet is keto and people lose weight consistently using it
Bullshit. They lose weight by reducing calorie intake. High carb "rice diet" works better for diabetics (see next post).

Anonymous

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Anonymous Mon 29 Jun 2020 06:17:31 No.11849203 Report

Quoted By: >>11849222

>>11845302
>>11845439
>>11849198
(Continued)
https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1080/00325481.1958.11692236?journalCode=ipgm20
>We have for the past 15 years treated numerous diabetic patients with the rice diet. Since more than 90 percent of the calories in this diet are derived from carbohydrates, it was anticipated that increased amounts of insulin would be necessary to keep the blood sugar at its previous level. However, the opposite proved to be true. As previously reported, not only is the rice diet well tolerated but in many instances the blood sugar and the insulin requirements decrease.
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0140673655902117
>There is no indication that healthy people taking a diet rich in carbohydrates are especially liable to diabetes; in fact numerous observations show improvement of carbohydrate tolerance following its greater intake. The Staub-Traugott effect is a classical example of this in acute experiments. As a long-term effect diabetes mellitus is not especially common among the huge and mainly carbohydrate-eating populations of the world-e.g., the Chinese-except the rich and the sedentary among them who partake of large quantities of fat as well and encourage obesity by overeating.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 29 Jun 2020 06:25:17 No.11849215 Report

Quoted By:

>>11845302
>Obesity itself is caused by high fat diet and copper deficiency.
No, obesity is caused by a higher caloric intake than expended.
It doesn't matter if it's fat, complex carbohydrates or sugar.
If you eat 4000 kcal worth of it per day and don't exercise, you're going to get fat.
>>11846022
>It's virtually impossible to get fat without high fat food.
One can get fat by eating a lot of carbohydrates as well.
>You need to feed high fat and only high fat food when you want to study fat animals, or the animals just won't eat enough to get fat.
That's a totaly unrelated issue, plenty of humans consume excess calories mainly in form of carbohydrates while others mainly consume fat.

A 2L bottle of Coca Cola for example contains 212 g of sugar or 840 kcal or about 1/3 to 1/2 of the daily expendeture of a person that is not exervising or obese while beeing absolutely doing nothing against hunger and having no other nutritional value.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 29 Jun 2020 06:30:23 No.11849222 Report

Quoted By: >>11851474 >>11851481

>>11849198
>You gain weight when you take in more calories than your body needs, and sugary foods and drinks contain a lot of calories.
You need to eat fat. It's virtually impossible to get overweight on carbohydrates alone, even if it was plain sugar.
>These prospective findings suggest that the intakes of starch and sucrose are not associated, but that those of fructose and glucose are inversely associated with diabetes risk.
Inversely.
>Type 2 diabetes is not caused by sugar, but by genetics and lifestyle factors.
It's still an open question as to what does cause it,
Manganese deficiency. Possibly copper deficiency leading to iron overliad leading to manganese deficiency, but that is still manganese deficiency.
>particularly since you can even find reliable connections between different specific kinds of fat deposits on the body and your risk for it.
You won't even see the connection between obesity if you look at more countries. Lean diabetic people are common.
>The mechanisms by which visceral obesity results in insulin resistance appear to be related to excess lipid accumulation in liver.
Clearly caused by nutrient deficiencies like Cu and Mn.
>This may be due to excess fatty acids from visceral adipose tissue draining into the portal vein.
Oh come on!
>>11849203

>>We have for the past 15 years treated numerous diabetic patients with the rice diet.
Rice is not usually fortified with iron, which prevents manganese absorption.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 29 Jun 2020 06:50:41 No.11849270 Report

Quoted By:

Basically
Fructose intake may deplete copper
Copper deficiency may lead to iron overload
Iron overload prevents manganese absorption.
Manganese deficiency leads to diabetes.

So any of the above may indirectly cause diabetes, but in the core it is always manganese.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 29 Jun 2020 19:22:38 No.11850826 Report

Quoted By:

Bump

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 29 Jun 2020 22:19:00 No.11851434 Report

Quoted By:

does this mean you can cure diabetes by taking Copper / Manganese supplements?

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 29 Jun 2020 22:34:33 No.11851474 Report

Quoted By: >>11852450

>>11849222
>You need to eat fat to get fat
No. I'm a doctor fuck off

>studies
I wouldn't use a dietary study to wipe my ass, it deserves better than that.

Dietary science and its studies are left in the dark ages. Peer review doesn't matter when all the peers that review it are just as clueless.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 29 Jun 2020 22:36:19 No.11851481 Report

Quoted By: >>11852450 >>11852475

>>11849222
>Lean diabetic people are common.
Lean type 1 diabetic people, sure.

Type 2 diabetic people are always overweight. Maybe not by your grotesque american obesity standards but you get overweight long before you turn into jabba the hut.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 29 Jun 2020 23:03:32 No.11851568 Report

Quoted By: >>11852450

I want to thank you anons for taking the time to read and debunk the schizo because I didn't feel like reading the papers in depth.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 30 Jun 2020 00:50:38 No.11851831 Report

Quoted By: >>11852450

>>11846714
You missed something important. It's the combination of fructose and fat that produces metabolic syndrome in mice. High fat or high fructose alone won't produce nearly the same effect. As a human, if you're consuming a high fructose diet, you better be eating less than 10% fat. If you're eating a very high fat diet, then you better be keeping your carbs under 20%.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 30 Jun 2020 05:45:54 No.11852450 Report

Quoted By: >>11852476

>>11851474
Doctors need to shut up about health. Look where your worthless advice led us to.
>>11851481
No. Lean type 2.
>>11851568
Stop calling people schizo. You posted you will stop arguing and just call everyone a schizo.
>>11851831
No I didn't. As I said the study makes them choice between overeating and dehydration. Why was the fructose given in drinking water, with no other source of water?

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 30 Jun 2020 06:03:10 No.11852475 Report

Quoted By:

>>11851481
>Type 2 diabetic people are always overweight
Based retard

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 30 Jun 2020 06:04:53 No.11852476 Report

Quoted By:

As a type 1 diabetic with a six pack it's annoying as fuck that people don't specify which type they are talking about. I don't like to be lumped in with obesetard type 2s.

>>11852450
>No. Lean type 2.
This is extremely rare and comes from genetic insulin resistance. There is a threshold of fatness above which you will get type 2 diabetes, it's just genetic. For those people, they will get type 2 even at low weight, but for the vast majority of people you have to be fat and lazy to get it.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 30 Jun 2020 09:35:47 No.11852867 Report

Quoted By: >>11852985

can someone explain why type 1 is genetic but also autoimmune? Why didn't it die out in history due to not being able to live without insulin?

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 30 Jun 2020 10:42:40 No.11852985 Report

Quoted By:

>>11852867
If your immune system did not screen your beta cells as tightly as they do, then there are known mutations that can arise that will kill you. This has the unfortunate consequence of causing autoimmune diseases since sometimes your immune system will fuck up.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 30 Jun 2020 12:00:13 No.11853136 Report

Quoted By: >>11853221

>>11845302
copperfag is back to shit over sci, i wonder why he isnt banned yet?

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 30 Jun 2020 12:38:49 No.11853221 Report

Quoted By:

>>11853136
Why? It's science related.

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