/sci/ - Science & Math » Thread #11815225

166KiB, 568x433, patience.jpg

View Same Google iqdb SauceNAO

Proofs thread

Anonymous Fri 19 Jun 16:47:07 2020 No.11815225 View Reply Original Report

Quoted By: >>11815281 >>11815288 >>11827866 >>11829656 >>11833537 >>11836584 >>11845060

There are things to which consciousness is innate, and there are things to which consciousness is abstract. If we can falsify either of these statements...

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 19 Jun 2020 16:48:00 No.11815227 Report

Quoted By:

Note: There is no implicit topic to this thread. A proof in relation to the nature of consciousness would be nice so that we could start forming actual models.

Anonymous

View Same Google iqdb SauceNAO 1574440156274.jpg, 531KiB, 1400x1768

Anonymous Fri 19 Jun 2020 16:49:07 No.11815230 Report

Quoted By:

>consciousness

> An End to Upside Down Thinking on Consciousness
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TK4ezkrTa6Y

> Is Consciousness More than the Brain?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x-6hosFAObI

> The Mystery of Consciousness
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gRGzJg5A3m8

> "Mind to Matter" and the Mind/Body Connection
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=beuRUpcfYT8

> Are Human Beings Robots?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4henADqlFto

> The Role of Consciousness in Health and Healing
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t0Lq9ubiYus

> Scientific Evidence of PSI and Survival of Consciousness
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=saLnYMis8JM

> The Sun's Influence on Consciousness
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s3qY5ewHAeo

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 19 Jun 2020 16:55:57 No.11815254 Report

Quoted By: >>11815268

consciousness is innate to me, all the rest of you losers are just abstract

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 19 Jun 2020 17:02:35 No.11815268 Report

Quoted By:

>>11815254
So it's abstract to itself. This follows from the stated intuition. Circular evidence is unhelpful for applying parsimony.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 19 Jun 2020 17:06:33 No.11815281 Report

Quoted By: >>11815289

>>11815225
Anime posting subhumans should be dragged across the streets and beating with spiked clubs.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 19 Jun 2020 17:08:04 No.11815288 Report

Quoted By:

>>11815225
>things
You're going to have to be more specific, bud.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 19 Jun 2020 17:08:19 No.11815289 Report

Quoted By: >>11815296

>>11815281
Interesting. Can you prove this thesis?

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 19 Jun 2020 17:10:20 No.11815296 Report

Quoted By: >>11819115

>>11815289
There's no thesis to be proved. It's something that must be done.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 19 Jun 2020 17:56:10 No.11815438 Report

Quoted By: >>11817291 >>11820891 >>11820913 >>11823669 >>11836648 >>11852507

Show a basis in a finite dimensional vector space is linearly independent.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 20 Jun 2020 06:55:09 No.11817291 Report

Quoted By: >>11854132

>>11815438
Tensors should be used in this proof.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 20 Jun 2020 21:35:48 No.11819115 Report

Quoted By:

>>11815296
Must implies a requirement somewhere. You have to prove this requirement.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 21 Jun 2020 07:27:56 No.11820891 Report

Quoted By:

>>11815438
I can tell the basic concept is simple but it's just not clicking tonight.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 21 Jun 2020 07:32:49 No.11820913 Report

Quoted By: >>11821880

>>11815438
literally the definition

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 21 Jun 2020 14:30:00 No.11821880 Report

Quoted By: >>11824487 >>11826949

>>11820913
That's too easy though.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 21 Jun 2020 23:42:39 No.11823669 Report

Quoted By: >>11839663

>>11815438
So do I wait until after you define basis to QED?

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 22 Jun 2020 07:17:34 No.11824487 Report

Quoted By: >>11826847

>>11821880
yes, it's a trivial question. so?

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 22 Jun 2020 08:35:37 No.11824576 Report

Quoted By: >>11828639 >>11852689

How has this retarded thread been up for 3 days but actually interesting albeit racially charged threads get 404'd by the retarded jannies after 30 minutes?

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 23 Jun 2020 01:03:16 No.11826847 Report

Quoted By: >>11854132

>>11824487
Honestly? I have no formal backing. The most I've dealt with proofs was some stuff under field theory awhile back.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 23 Jun 2020 01:27:18 No.11826949 Report

Quoted By: >>11827175

>>11821880
How do you define "basis" ?
The usual definition says that it's a family of vectors that's linearly independant and that generates the whole Space.
So with that definition your question sounds stupid.
Now you could use another definition and ask us to prove it's equivalent to the one i just gave. That would make your question less trivial/pointless

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 23 Jun 2020 02:32:45 No.11827175 Report

Quoted By: >>11828709 >>11852507

>>11826949
my bad, mean to put orthogonal instead of lin. ind.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 23 Jun 2020 08:39:56 No.11827866 Report

Quoted By:

>>11815225
>philosophy of mind
get the fuck out of the science board faggots

>>>/lit/
go with the pseuds

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 23 Jun 2020 15:54:13 No.11828639 Report

Quoted By:

>>11824576
Your notion of retarded is inconsistent. Please try to present an actual thesis to validate.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 23 Jun 2020 16:20:33 No.11828709 Report

Quoted By: >>11836360 >>11869064

>>11827175
>>11827175
Definition of linear independence is that $\sum_i a_i e_i = 0$ holds only if all $a_i = 0$ . Let's prove it. So suppose
$\sum_i a_i e_i = 0$
now apply inner product with $e_k$ to both sides and use linearity, you get
$\sum_i a_i \langle e_k, e_i \rangle = 0$
Since the vectors are orthonormal, all inner products are zero with the exception $\langle e_k,e_k\rangle = 1$ , so you get
$a_k = 0$
Since $k$ was arbitrary, we have that all $a_k = 0$ . Done.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 23 Jun 2020 16:24:52 No.11828726 Report

Quoted By: >>11834701

good books on proofs for someone of slightly above average maths knowledge?

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 23 Jun 2020 21:06:22 No.11829656 Report

Quoted By: >>11831383

>>11815225
So people need to be proven they are not alone in the universe and there are other entities once again?

Where you mine this narcisism? Nobody wants it.

Just kill people, whatsoever.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 24 Jun 2020 07:43:33 No.11831383 Report

Quoted By: >>11858798

>>11829656
Sorry, death isn't allowed here except to those who can prove that it can apply to them.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 24 Jun 2020 21:24:32 No.11833537 Report

Quoted By: >>11841235 >>11858783

>>11815225
If we can falsify either of these statements, then we've done so through some experiment, and not through philosophy. As such, we can make no prediction without knowing the details of the experiment. To think that consciousness can discern this in advance is to state that consciousness is already omniscient, which we know from experience is not the case. A true experimental discovery about the nature of consciousness will necessarily surprise all of us.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 25 Jun 2020 05:58:33 No.11834701 Report

Quoted By:

>>11828726
You might try asking >>>/sci/mg since this thread is experimental.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 25 Jun 2020 17:37:12 No.11836360 Report

Quoted By: >>11836366

>>11828709
>orthonormal
Is this true for (1,1,0,0) and (0,0,1,1) or does it have to be more concise?

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 25 Jun 2020 17:43:53 No.11836366 Report

Quoted By: >>11838038

>>11836360
it works for orthogonal as well. key is that <e_i,e_j> is non-zero if and only if i = j, it doesn't have to be exactly 1.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 25 Jun 2020 18:53:06 No.11836584 Report

Quoted By:

>>11815225

proof as terms
propositions as types

El Arcón

View Same Google iqdb SauceNAO TIMESAND___8d5772e7042e70gr20e6g (...).png, 252KiB, 1067x904

El Arcón Thu 25 Jun 2020 19:03:23 No.11836623 Report

Quoted By:

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 25 Jun 2020 19:09:57 No.11836648 Report

Quoted By:

>>11815438
N vectors spanning N dimensions. If any vector were in anothers set of vector's span, the combined list would have Q-1 dimensions. Adding the others if Lin independent, means N-1 dim, a contradiction. So each vector must be unique span

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 26 Jun 2020 03:27:43 No.11838038 Report

Quoted By: >>11838385

>>11836366
I was more wondering if orthonormal has a more general definition than just perpendicular axes.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 26 Jun 2020 06:22:13 No.11838385 Report

Quoted By:

>>11838038
Orthogonal means perpendicular, orthonormal means perpendicular and unit length.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 26 Jun 2020 15:46:02 No.11839663 Report

Quoted By:

>>11823669
Yes.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 27 Jun 2020 02:05:52 No.11841235 Report

Quoted By: >>11844422 >>11864122

>>11833537
>surprise all of us
So: Magic. Until we have what amounts to us now as magic, we can't even formulate that kind of hypothesis. It's beyond everything we've achieved. There's no real way to imagine how this kind of experiment would even be run.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 27 Jun 2020 17:35:02 No.11842932 Report

Quoted By: >>11862810

What are you proving, /sci/?

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 28 Jun 2020 01:45:37 No.11844422 Report

Quoted By:

>>11841235
Wait, nevermind. That's not accurate. Apparently all this time I've been trying to figure out how to prove all magic, when a slight improvement in experimental setup to avoid inconclusive results would be sufficient. Minor demonstration of acausal effect is much simpler.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 28 Jun 2020 06:01:17 No.11845060 Report

Quoted By: >>11847064

>>11815225
You are now a squishy. A squishy with autism! *headpat!* >:O

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 28 Jun 2020 19:41:22 No.11847064 Report

Quoted By: >>11851794

>>11845060
Prove it tho.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 29 Jun 2020 06:18:10 No.11849204 Report

Quoted By: >>11857119 >>11861987

What would be worth proving?

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 29 Jun 2020 19:12:42 No.11850784 Report

Quoted By: >>11856021

Might have something to prove, still working on it.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 30 Jun 2020 00:35:02 No.11851794 Report

Quoted By:

>>11847064
We can create axioms. However, those axioms under our universes conditions will cancel out until one remains the victor. HOWEVER, if you ascribe to many worlds interpretation you could argue that there is more to abstract thinking than meets the eye.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 30 Jun 2020 06:20:32 No.11852507 Report

Quoted By:

>>11815438
>>11827175
Linear independence doesn't imply orthogonality. Take R^2 with the usual dot product and B={(1,0), (1,1)}. Then
(x,y)=x-y(1,0)+y(1,1) so it spans R^2.
If B isn't li then there is a real r such that 0r=1. Therefore B is li. However
(1,0)*(1,1)=1.
The converse implication is true, though.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 30 Jun 2020 07:44:20 No.11852689 Report

Quoted By:

>>11824576
>it's still up
The absolute state of this board

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 30 Jun 2020 18:35:34 No.11854132 Report

Quoted By:

>>11826847
>>11817291
A vector is an address for some non-zero cell in a rank (m,n) tensor.

The rest of the proof is described as an NP-complete problem space in a proof-by-contradiction web.

QEU

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 01 Jul 2020 06:21:02 No.11856021 Report

Quoted By:

>>11850784
You should assume that others don't right now. Even a sketch is enough.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 01 Jul 2020 16:45:38 No.11857119 Report

Quoted By:

>>11849204
If we knew this, it would already be proven.

QED.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 02 Jul 2020 02:36:39 No.11858783 Report

Quoted By: >>11864122

>>11833537
Someone would have to design the hypothesis first, so my intuition is that their surprise would not be as severe. Something is missing from our models, that we can agree on, but some spiritual models involve voluntary ignorance made as a decision from an omniscient state. The allure of a completely foreign mode of thought is nice, but we lack sufficient evidence to conclude that we're not omniscient prior to incarnating.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 02 Jul 2020 02:41:50 No.11858798 Report

Quoted By: >>11867396

>>11831383
Based quantum immortal.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 02 Jul 2020 12:40:28 No.11859921 Report

Quoted By: >>11864122

What does the phenomenon of intuition itself prove?

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 03 Jul 2020 00:19:30 No.11861987 Report

Quoted By:

>>11849204
Everything, to start.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 03 Jul 2020 08:24:09 No.11862810 Report

Quoted By:

>>11842932
Some kind of irrelevance theorem.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 03 Jul 2020 19:57:55 No.11864122 Report

Quoted By: >>11865667

>>11841235
Magic is precisely something we can imagine. It would be surprising to discover it, but not to a degree beyond our intuition. People already expect magic to be real in at least one way.
>>11858783
That state itself is the alluring notion you describe. We were not asked to be here. We did not sign up voluntarily from some higher reality.
>>11859921
The phenomenon proves intractable aspects within consciousness. Not all things will be palpable, tangible.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 04 Jul 2020 09:03:56 No.11865667 Report

Quoted By: >>11880829

>>11864122
What form would evidence about consciousness have to take? As in, how will it be recorded when we create such a hypothesis?

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 04 Jul 2020 19:49:37 No.11867396 Report

Quoted By: >>11882351

>>11858798
No, sorry, I'm an alchemist (true materialist). I can prove that it's possible to convert between consciousness and unthinking substance. There are forms of death that only I can experience because of my specific knowledge.

If I prove this, others will become capable of the same level of consciousness, and thus death.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 05 Jul 2020 04:32:51 No.11869064 Report

Quoted By: >>11870395 >>11883838

>>11828709
There has to be a way to more easily communicate what linear independence is.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 05 Jul 2020 07:27:21 No.11869355 Report

Quoted By: >>11869370 >>11870358

show $\mathbb{Q}$ is dense in $\mathbb{R}$

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 05 Jul 2020 07:31:55 No.11869370 Report

Quoted By: >>11876114

>>11869355

that follows by definition

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 05 Jul 2020 16:52:27 No.11870358 Report

Quoted By: >>11876114 >>11877856

>>11869355
what definition of R are you using ?

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 05 Jul 2020 17:07:23 No.11870395 Report

Quoted By: >>11872117

>>11869064
I proved that orthonormal set is linearly independent. it looks like he actually wanted the opposite implication which is obviously false

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 06 Jul 2020 04:15:57 No.11872117 Report

Quoted By: >>11872819

>>11870395
Is linear independence just a set of vectors in which each vector has one unique part that's not in any of the other vectors?

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 06 Jul 2020 08:54:03 No.11872819 Report

Quoted By: >>11874505 >>11887400

>>11872117
What does "unique part" mean?
Linear independence means that distinct linear combinations give distinct vectors. In particular it's not possible to express a vector of the linearly independent set as a combination of the rest.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 06 Jul 2020 20:42:03 No.11874505 Report

Quoted By:

>>11872819
It means that you cannot escape death if you take from what fairies you do not know.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 07 Jul 2020 04:56:35 No.11876114 Report

Quoted By:

>>11869370
>>11870358
I'd say we can't keep doing this, but we can.

QED

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 07 Jul 2020 17:33:27 No.11877856 Report

Quoted By:

>>11870358
This.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 08 Jul 2020 05:37:05 No.11879929 Report

Quoted By:

"Sometimes glops from the dimension of self-rot fall into other dimensions" is a true statement if and only if there is a dimension of self-rot. Not sure how to apply this yet.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 08 Jul 2020 13:43:43 No.11880829 Report

Quoted By:

>>11865667
It can't be recorded. We can document our experiences, but this isn't the same. To disprove consciousness would violate the concept of science at the scientists, which is required for falsification.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 09 Jul 2020 00:02:25 No.11882351 Report

Quoted By: >>11895507

>>11867396
So... You can prove, that you can falsify your own consciousness? Is this just in theory or can you demonstrate evidence of it?

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 09 Jul 2020 14:33:02 No.11883838 Report

Quoted By: >>11885736

>>11869064
It might help to read up on vector spaces in general. The notions mathematicians come up with have meaning because of their applications to some theory.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 10 Jul 2020 02:35:17 No.11885736 Report

Quoted By: >>11889401

>>11883838
My thesis is that there's a way to make proofs fun. The way we communicate about this stuff is important.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 10 Jul 2020 16:18:53 No.11887400 Report

Quoted By:

>>11872819
As in the part of each vector that isn't expressible in terms of the others in the set.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 11 Jul 2020 07:39:08 No.11889401 Report

Quoted By: >>11890849

>>11885736
It's not going to become fun for people it wasn't already fun for by phrasing it differently.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 11 Jul 2020 19:20:34 No.11890849 Report

Quoted By: >>11892083

>>11889401
Disagree. Math is universally amazing, and trying to make it intractable just sets the field back.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 12 Jul 2020 06:32:04 No.11892083 Report

Quoted By:

>>11890849
Which also limits how well physicists can communicate, which limits theory. You may have a point.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 12 Jul 2020 17:32:21 No.11893669 Report

Quoted By:

Sorry about the slow replies.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 13 Jul 2020 02:51:55 No.11895507 Report

Quoted By:

>>11882351
Do you want to take just a minute to think about what that would actually mean for me?

Capcode	All Only User Posts Only Moderator Posts Only Admin Posts Only Developer Posts
Show Posts	All Only With Images Only Without Images
Deleted Posts	All Only Deleted Posts Only Non-Deleted Posts
Ghost Posts	All Only Ghost Posts Only Non-Ghost Posts
Post Type	All Only Sticky Threads Only Opening Posts Only Reply Posts
Results	All Grouped By Threads
Order	Latest Posts First Oldest Posts First

Your latest searches