/sci/ - Science & Math » Thread #11773297

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Anonymous Mon 08 Jun 06:05:12 2020 No.11773297 View Reply Original Report

Quoted By: >>11773303 >>11773396 >>11773453 >>11773519 >>11774213 >>11774255 >>11774382 >>11774878 >>11774890 >>11775055

Some anon on g said its impossible to get the best performance from a gaming laptop because according to the laws of thermodynamics its not possible to cool the gpu and cpu properly from such a thin amount of space.
Is it true or was he bullshiting?

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 08 Jun 2020 06:09:48 No.11773303 Report

Quoted By: >>11773346

>>11773297
I have a gaming laptop and I can play Witcher 3 without lagging.
If you are afraid you can always get cooling platforms.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 08 Jun 2020 06:39:59 No.11773346 Report

Quoted By: >>11773398 >>11773416

>>11773303
What laptop? When I play Witcher 3 it doesn't lag but it heats up to 95C and the fans run at 4000rpm and it's fucking annoying. Have a i7 and gtx 1060

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 08 Jun 2020 07:06:56 No.11773396 Report

Quoted By:

>>11773297
True in the sense that there exist no chip architectures of sufficiently high teraflops per watt (or its equivalent in GPU processing power) to match typical gear that goes into a case big enough to dissipate hundreds of watts of heat. There is just no getting around how much size still matters for getting rid of all that heat until other semiconductor materials are developed.

Anonymous

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Anonymous Mon 08 Jun 2020 07:08:34 No.11773398 Report

Quoted By:

>>11773346
ftfy

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 08 Jun 2020 07:20:48 No.11773416 Report

Quoted By: >>11774774 >>11775824

>>11773346
>95c
lmao wtf

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 08 Jun 2020 07:40:14 No.11773453 Report

Quoted By:

>>11773297
Not bullshitting. Might not be true with ARM based laptops, but as for now he is right.

Anonymous

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Anonymous Mon 08 Jun 2020 08:19:26 No.11773519 Report

Quoted By: >>11773528

>>11773297
This is entirely true, there is NO modern gaming laptop that can keep up with cooling.
Every processor will throttle, meaning loosing about 30~50% performance.
You are essentially paying for a powerful processor which will never reach it's 100% potential, all the clocks and cores are for marketing and doesn't matter that much because it will throttle hard. I have seen the same model of laptop perform better with i5 that i7, because i5 didn't throttle as much.
Look up some gaming laptop reviews on sites which test the clock speeds in prolonged benchmarks, it will show you an actual performance.
Please don't fall for gaming laptop meme.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 08 Jun 2020 08:24:05 No.11773528 Report

Quoted By: >>11774711

>>11773519
AMD royally fucked up, if their bulldozer architecture was meant for massively multicore cpu's and they abandoned it in favor of single core speed.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 08 Jun 2020 14:18:59 No.11774213 Report

Quoted By:

>>11773297
being thin is actually a thermodynamic advantage, it means more surface area for heat exchange. to take advantage of this you'd need to attach your laptop with good thermal contact to a large heatsink, though.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 08 Jun 2020 14:36:05 No.11774243 Report

Quoted By: >>11774261

He's right. People don't realize how hard the physical constrains of hardware are right now. The reason why we can't have CPUs go any faster is due to quite literal heat and power constraints that melt the hardware if so. Which is why we're in multi-core hell right now rather than 6 Ghz.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 08 Jun 2020 14:42:09 No.11774255 Report

Quoted By:

>>11773297
do NOT buy a Dell for gaming. they are probably the worst of the worst when it comes to thermal management. you WILL regret it when your PC throttles within 15 minutes of playing a mid-tier game.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 08 Jun 2020 14:43:13 No.11774261 Report

Quoted By: >>11774266

>>11774243
There was a push towards multi chip architectures back in the 90's, but programmers were too lazy to learn coding for them, so the HW manufacturers backpedaled.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 08 Jun 2020 14:46:57 No.11774266 Report

Quoted By: >>11774346 >>11774367 >>11774886

>>11774261

The same is true today, except now manufacturers can't do anything else. In fairness, programming for multi processors is really difficult, especially for the applications that would need it (like gaming). It may even be beyond the scope of human ability, if you consider the idea that programming is done as complicated as possible at a single processor level, and that adding an additional layer of processing increases the complexity (difficulty) by an additional factor.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 08 Jun 2020 15:21:52 No.11774346 Report

Quoted By: >>11774358

>>11774266
That has always seemed weird to me, games seem like they should be easy to parallelize, with all the different objects etc. running at once.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 08 Jun 2020 15:29:07 No.11774358 Report

Quoted By:

>>11774346

I can't speak super authoritatively on the subject since I'm not a games dev, but they do have a few main engines they develop all of their games that are based and optimized off of a single processing paradigm. It would be impossible to try to adapt that, basically working backwards. Seems like a matter of "meh this is good enough" with the schlock they push out and rake money with these days, think about how CoD and Fortnite destroy the market with low effort development.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 08 Jun 2020 15:33:27 No.11774367 Report

Quoted By:

>>11774266
I guarantee people said this when the programming languages were baremetal. Things are impossible for normie retard monkeys until someone actually capable changes everything for the 9999999th time

Anonymous

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Anonymous Mon 08 Jun 2020 15:39:16 No.11774382 Report

Quoted By:

>>11773297
He may be right that current gaming laptops don't have the necessary cooling capabilities

However
>according to the laws of thermodynamics its not possible
This is pseud bullshit
At a conference last year I saw researchers talking about how to efficiently use thermoelectric cooling to cool GPUs in mobile devices, for example.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thermoelectric_cooling

Again not saying he's wrong about 2020 gaming laptops but this is /sci/ so I'm gonna call bullshit when I see it

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 08 Jun 2020 17:26:23 No.11774704 Report

Quoted By:

I just bought a gaming laptop and realized that all games are shit now

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 08 Jun 2020 17:28:07 No.11774711 Report

Quoted By: >>11774771

>>11773528
What year are we in?

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 08 Jun 2020 17:53:24 No.11774771 Report

Quoted By: >>11774865

>>11774711
What do you mean? I mean the future made it even only obvious it was a good idea and the CEO shouldn't have slashed it.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 08 Jun 2020 17:55:59 No.11774774 Report

Quoted By:

>>11773416
3rd degree burns whenever he touches the keyboard

Anonymous

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Anonymous Mon 08 Jun 2020 18:22:27 No.11774865 Report

Quoted By: >>11775133

>>11774771
The Ryzen chips that replaced AMD's Bulldozer chips are much faster in both single core & multithreaded stuff. And the most recent versions have moved to a "chiplet" design that makes building processors with lots of cores relatively cheap and easy. Instead of trying to fab a fuck-huge processor with tons of cores, AMD has small 8 core chiplets that they can stick next to a i/o chip; they can fit up to 8 of these chiplets onto a single processsor, for 64 cores. And AMD can sell these chips for like $4k, versus the $20k Intel wants for a pair of 28 core Xeons. It also lets them cover the consumer market with one or two chiplet processors, without having to have separate designs or production setup.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 08 Jun 2020 18:27:23 No.11774878 Report

Quoted By: >>11774974

>>11773297
>Is it true or was he bullshiting?
He was bullshitting. Nothing in the laws of thermodynamics says anything like that, but gaming laptops are still retarded.
They are:
- Loud
- Heavy
- Extremely expensive for the performance
- Very short battery life

They are useful ONLY if you need a desktop PC at multiple locations. They are NOT mobile devices.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 08 Jun 2020 18:31:06 No.11774886 Report

Quoted By: >>11774996

>>11774266
What an idiotic thing to say. A lot of games can utilize multiple cores very efficiently. Also gaming is fundamentally far more reliant on GPU performance which is hardware which is extremely multi core oriented.

>if you consider the idea that programming is done as complicated as possible at a single processor level, and that adding an additional layer of processing increases the complexity (difficulty) by an additional factor.
That is why nobody programs games in Assembly...

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 08 Jun 2020 18:32:50 No.11774890 Report

Quoted By:

>>11773297
I have an asus a15 and ive never had it throttle. I had to open a few vents that were blocked for some reason tho.
Modern cooling solutions are pretty good.
(Unless youre buying apple, apple doesnt even use heatpipes in some models lmao)

Anonymous

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Anonymous Mon 08 Jun 2020 18:58:37 No.11774974 Report

Quoted By:

>>11774878
Some of the newer gaming laptops have largely fixed those issues. The Asus G14 for example is all of 18 mm thick & 1.6 kg, and on most reviews battery tests is getting like 9 to 11 hour of battery life during lighter use. The price is reasonable enough (less than $1500) though the fans do get loud while gaming.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 08 Jun 2020 19:06:18 No.11774996 Report

Quoted By: >>11775141

>>11774886

Then tell me why gaming/graphics haven't scaled with the addition of multiple cores like they did with the gradual optimization of CPU speed from the 80's-2010? It's like night and day. You can't just say "but they're doing multi-processing, I swear!" when we're in a gaming market as dull and molasses as this.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 08 Jun 2020 19:25:52 No.11775055 Report

Quoted By:

>>11773297
>the best performance from a gaming laptop
Never ever.
Why do you think they spend money engineering, producing and implementing lower powered parts made specifically for laptops?
Have you ever took a look at modern high end gpu and cpu heat sinks? You can't fit them inside a laptop chassis.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 08 Jun 2020 19:45:48 No.11775133 Report

Quoted By:

>>11774865
But that's what bulldozer was meant to be, originally, until the CEO at the last moment decided that single core performance was more important and that is how that abomination was created. At least that's what the internets say.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 08 Jun 2020 19:49:25 No.11775141 Report

Quoted By:

>>11774996
Games are often GPU bound. CPU will make minimal difference if the GPU cannot render the game any faster.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 08 Jun 2020 23:25:17 No.11775824 Report

Quoted By:

>>11773416
that's intel housefire for ya

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