/sci/ - Science & Math » Thread #11717131

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Anonymous Wed 27 May 12:03:19 2020 No.11717131 View Reply Original Report

Quoted By: >>11717378 >>11717668 >>11718596 >>11719668 >>11719674 >>11719693 >>11724362 >>11725706 >>11726209

Why do humans see fractals on paychedelics?
Is it something inherent in our intelligence to notice infinity, or is the mathematical/cultural imagery of our society?
Im other words, would a man 20000 years ago see fractals on acid?

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 27 May 2020 12:04:32 No.11717136 Report

Quoted By: >>11717591 >>11717913

Well, fractals are present in nature to some extent. I wouldn’t be surprised if it were an innate element of human vision that leads to hallucination of these shapes

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 27 May 2020 12:59:41 No.11717348 Report

Quoted By: >>11717591

The universe is a fractal and psychedelics show you the truth

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 27 May 2020 13:09:40 No.11717378 Report

Quoted By: >>11717591

>>11717131
its because all of reality operates on a few constant values. Most of those constant values form ever repeating patterns. You are just seeing the fundamental structure of reality. Your humanoid bodily shape is not random either as it follows the correct proportions for each segment set by the universal constants.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 27 May 2020 14:13:25 No.11717591 Report

Quoted By: >>11717962

>>11717136
This, it wouldn't be surprising if there was a self-similar elements to the way human vision is processed. It would be neat to see research on this.

>>11717348
Hippie nonsense.

>>11717378
Total bullshit, that golden ratio stuff isn't real.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 27 May 2020 14:23:34 No.11717650 Report

Quoted By: >>11717668

yeah, I think human vision does deconstruct visual elements as fractals, since they are often present in nature we might be trimmed to recognize those patterns

also describing geometry with fractals gives you a high degree of non-random complexity for little computational effort.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 27 May 2020 14:29:41 No.11717668 Report

Quoted By:

>>11717131
>>11717650
I found it very interesting to note that the patterns I saw changed dramatically depending on whether or not I was wearing glasses, e.g. smooth, unfocused, wavy geometry with glasses off, and sharp, distinct, fractal geometry with then on.

I hypothesize that bottom-up visual processing and post-processing is altered in such a way that a feedback loop is created; the stdout of visual cortices is piped to their stdin so to speak. The effect is magnified with larger doses, and additional geometry plus the superimposition of memories occurs with the addition of cannabis in my experience.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 27 May 2020 15:40:48 No.11717913 Report

Quoted By: >>11717917 >>11717919 >>11720142 >>11724276

>>11717136
>Well, fractals are present in nature to some extent.
Why?

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 27 May 2020 15:42:14 No.11717917 Report

Quoted By:

>>11717913
they have simple rules but produce complex behaviour

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 27 May 2020 15:42:25 No.11717919 Report

Quoted By:

>>11717913
Why not?

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 27 May 2020 15:49:13 No.11717962 Report

Quoted By: >>11719265

>>11717591
Your surface level knowledge of this really comes off. Its not only ? which is the defining constant of our reality. Its the interplay between all. And its not bullshit. It is legitimate science. What are you even speaking about. Modern science wouldn't be possible without usage of those values.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 27 May 2020 16:59:59 No.11718596 Report

Quoted By:

>>11717131
Cool broccoli

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 27 May 2020 17:09:31 No.11718725 Report

Quoted By: >>11719746

It is something called phosphenes, I think it arises in the brain. Scientists were able to recreate it by applying a slight electric current in the brain

Anonymous

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Anonymous Wed 27 May 2020 17:12:40 No.11718786 Report

Quoted By:

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 27 May 2020 17:44:08 No.11719265 Report

Quoted By: >>11724623

>>11717962
Have any references for that or are you gonna keep spouting mystical gibberish?

Anonymous

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Anonymous Wed 27 May 2020 18:07:01 No.11719668 Report

Quoted By: >>11724276 >>11726778

>>11717131
>Why do humans see fractals on paychedelics?
see https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ovJcsL7vyrk

The human brain is capable of doing very complex mathematics on an unconscious level.
Maybe it's possible some part of the human unconscious brain that understands and comprehends bifurcation diagrams and the feigenbaum constant. It's entirely possible since chaotic patterns have been observed inside multiple places in the structure of the human brain. When the unconcious part of our brain sees a fractal, makes this connection, and tries to but fails to properly communicate this information to the conscious brain, the experience is one that's perceived as "trippy"

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 27 May 2020 18:07:34 No.11719674 Report

Quoted By:

>>11717131
I think the fractal experience is so ubiquitous because fractals are in essence the most basal method to compare 2 or more objects relative to each other.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 27 May 2020 18:08:30 No.11719693 Report

Quoted By:

>>11717131
the low level visual system is scale and rotation insensitive to a degree. that's why you can, say, recognize objects at different distances and in different orientations. psychedelics disrupt normal neuronal firing, so it's probably an artifact of the massive orgy the first few visual cortices are having with themselves while you are tripping

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 27 May 2020 18:11:21 No.11719746 Report

Quoted By:

>>11718725
i believe this desu, i see fractals in the dark or when i close my eyes. pretty sure psychadelics would just amplify this like they amplify other sensory phenomena

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 27 May 2020 18:16:05 No.11719846 Report

Quoted By:

My one trip on shrooms i experienced the light from the moon passing through the window like a prism. The colors were beautiful.

Anonymous

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Anonymous Wed 27 May 2020 18:29:12 No.11720142 Report

Quoted By:

>>11717913
because it works? Look at how plants grow, they all grow the exact same, humans develop very similar and most things in it's stages of life follow the same rules.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 27 May 2020 22:26:23 No.11724276 Report

Quoted By: >>11724294

>>11717913
see >>11719668
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ovJcsL7vyrk

This video still blows my mind.
Basically anything with a negative feedback loop is part of the mandelbrot set. Am I understanding this right?

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 27 May 2020 22:28:51 No.11724294 Report

Quoted By:

>>11724276
basically

eigenvalue time

Anonymous

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Anonymous Wed 27 May 2020 22:44:37 No.11724362 Report

Quoted By: >>11724565 >>11724654

>>11717131
> Why do humans see fractals on paychedelics?

I don't think your assumption is correct. People often say fractals look like a psychedelic acid trip, but they say the same thing about most colorful abstract animation.

For example many hippy bands were getting "psychedelic visuals" by putting bubbles of colored liquid in front of a projector. This isn't a fractal.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 27 May 2020 23:43:09 No.11724565 Report

Quoted By:

>>11724362
I took acid and saw fractals (and many other things). Maybe not everyone sees them, but I think that majority of people do. And my original question was: is that because the
>people often say fractals look psychedelic
and THUS it's rooted so deep in our minds in modern life that we subconsciously seek for it
or
is ability to see fractals in every human bundled as a part of our minds?

Basically egg vs chicken

btw there is no such thing as 'psychedelic' really, because everything is psychedelic. milk is my favourite psychedelic item

Anonymous

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Anonymous Thu 28 May 2020 00:03:12 No.11724623 Report

Quoted By: >>11725691

>>11719265
>I-I-Iiiiii'mmm PROOOOOOOOOOVING!
>You better back that up that experience of consciousness SCIENTIFICALLY BUCKO, OR IT IS NOT TRUE!!!,

Anonymous

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Anonymous Thu 28 May 2020 00:15:50 No.11724654 Report

Quoted By: >>11724870 >>11725683

>>11724362
You clearly haven't done psychedelics. You most definitely see fractals. Pic related was an album cover designed before we knew anything about fractals, and it's clearly trying to depict them

Anonymous

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Anonymous Thu 28 May 2020 01:32:57 No.11724870 Report

Quoted By: >>11724974

>>11724654
Art depicting fractals is a lot older than LSD though. Maybe the guy who painted this ate some mushrooms, but you don't have to be high to think "hey it would be cool if my art had a bunch of repeating patterns".

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 28 May 2020 02:02:33 No.11724974 Report

Quoted By:

>>11724870
That's true, you can see Persian rugs and Mayan art as other examples. They're a naturally appealing thing to look at. The one I posted was 100% influenced by LSD because it was for Grateful Dead in 1968. It's a much more on the nose depiction of pure fractals.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 28 May 2020 06:51:52 No.11725683 Report

Quoted By:

>>11724654
nigga they were doing fractals in the 1800s.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 28 May 2020 06:54:57 No.11725691 Report

Quoted By:

>>11724623
I mean it would be nice to have some concrete proof instead of spouting nonsense like some schizo religious zealot.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 28 May 2020 07:03:53 No.11725706 Report

Quoted By: >>11726198 >>11726210 >>11726224 >>11727268

>>11717131
Psychology, and by extension neurology, are not sciences. This is off-topic.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 28 May 2020 11:19:47 No.11726198 Report

Quoted By:

>>11725706
they are

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 28 May 2020 11:27:41 No.11726209 Report

Quoted By: >>11726228

>>11717131
I doubt anybody here has any idea, but I remember that there is research into this. It's very groundbreaking research though in the field of cognitive science and it looks like fractals have to do with the most efficient way to construct our vision. I can't tell you more, this is only fuzzy memory of something I read while researching neurophenomenology once.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 28 May 2020 11:27:44 No.11726210 Report

Quoted By:

>>11725706
Just because your psychiatrist failed to cure your autism doesn't mean the human mind cannot be scientifically studied. I do agree with you that a lot of psychology is shit but that's to do with people doing it wrong, not the science itself.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 28 May 2020 11:34:44 No.11726224 Report

Quoted By:

>>11725706
stop outing youself by your inability to use the word neuroscience faggot

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 28 May 2020 11:37:17 No.11726228 Report

Quoted By:

>>11726209
some people did do research into geometric hallucinations in psychedelics and properties of the visual cortex/ascending pathway however Im not totally sure they explicitly mentioned fractals.

Anonymous

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Anonymous Thu 28 May 2020 14:39:03 No.11726551 Report

Quoted By: >>11726553

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 28 May 2020 14:40:39 No.11726553 Report

Quoted By: >>11726762

>>11726551
followup, I do have the original paper somewhere, will post if request

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 28 May 2020 16:19:04 No.11726762 Report

Quoted By:

>>11726553
post lol

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 28 May 2020 16:23:54 No.11726778 Report

Quoted By:

>>11719668
>tfw chaos isn't chaotic
And they say there is no design.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 28 May 2020 19:24:19 No.11727268 Report

Quoted By:

>>11725706
Science is based on experimentation and people are doing experiments on humans every day.
think advertising.
Psychology is definitely a science.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 28 May 2020 19:50:36 No.11727354 Report

Quoted By:

from personal experience I always feel like it messes up the way you procces the world (mostly visual). Like the automatic programs so to say. For example (granted this isnt neccecarly completely 'psychedelic' ) after a while of no sleep (say 2 days) while being awake after a party doing lots of drugs, then basically just sitting somewhere dropping half a pill or snorting some speed and just chain smoking weed for hours. A few times I clearly noticed the part that looks for patterns going haywire, strands of reed would start to look like like an army of reed-men, trees looked like a bunch of grasshoper heads (the leafs that is) I mean i could literally not unsee it.
Then theres also something of your imagination mixed in, I swear with acid for some fucking reason my visual and my feelings get interconnected sometimes. Anyways, point being, the fractals are I think one of the common pattern constructs our minds use to build up the world. But to counter argue that I have spend way to long tripping balls looking at low moving clouds thinking I saw patterns of movement in them I never saw before, also spend a good 15 minutes looking at my piss dissolve into the water being amazed at the fractal nature of literally everything. Its really hard to say if you see it because 'you can see more clearer' or that you think you see the patterns but actually you're tripping balls and your mind is just oversimplifying it. Sorry for this poorly typed and formulated wall of text, atleast its HONEST, something we dont have enough of on the internet.

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