/sci/ - Science & Math » Thread #11676713

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Are black holes living beings?

Anonymous Fri 15 May 20:53:22 2020 No.11676713 View Reply Original Report

Quoted By: >>11676784 >>11678734 >>11680827 >>11680948 >>11681038 >>11683906 >>11684291 >>11684304 >>11684609 >>11684661

If the black hole cosmology is true, could we consider black holes as living beings? I mean:

>They absorb matter like they're feeding.
>They grow.
>If universes are born inside black holes, they reproduce.
>If the resulting universe is different from the parent universe and somehow the laws of physics work different, we could say they evolve.

What do you think?

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 15 May 2020 21:13:45 No.11676781 Report

Quoted By: >>11676864 >>11681566 >>11683923

Living being have metabolism, they don't only consume something, they also crap it out again in different form. So I'd give it a no.

What about neural networks? They have a sense of self preservation (Google experiment with picking apples, where they started blocking each other when apples got scarce), can easily procreate and bear children (AutoML), they learn, they deceive (GANs), they consume inputs and metabolize it using electricity, then spit out output, they procrastinate (experiment of an NN that was programmed to solve a labyrinth, but decided to watch TV instead), they can have dementia (dropout), etc etc.
I know it's a bit oversimplified, but they show all the signs.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 15 May 2020 21:14:31 No.11676784 Report

Quoted By: >>11676836 >>11676864 >>11677917 >>11683928

>>11676713
Defining what makes something alive is very hard. One could say for example that cars are alive and live as parasites to our society. They feed themselves gas (or make us feed them), they reproduce in car factories (which we make for them) and they constantly evolve. They also deficate gasses and move around. So I think that what you say is a side effect of the living state not being defined sufficiently.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 15 May 2020 21:27:07 No.11676836 Report

Quoted By: >>11676864

>>11676784
They don't reproduce, they are produced. They don't evolve, they're succeeded. They also don't show self-preservation.

But yeah, they do metabolize and move around.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 15 May 2020 21:36:22 No.11676864 Report

Quoted By: >>11677901

>>11676781
What if for them, to give birth and to crap are the same thing?

>>11676784
>>11676836
Androids could be living beings?
If they have AI, we could say they have consciousness?

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 16 May 2020 03:54:38 No.11677901 Report

Quoted By: >>11678676

>>11676864
>What if for them, to give birth and to crap are the same thing?
I'm not sure either works, because crap has to be expelled from the system (organisms in confined spaces die, because their feces poison them) and probably also offspring, neither off which seems to happen.

>Androids could be living beings?
Depending of whether and how we accept the signs of them being alive, I'd say yes.
>If they have AI, we could say they have consciousness?
That's an entirely different playfield. Since there's no clear definition of intelligence and none at all of consciousness, it would be a matter of convention I guess. Would you consider self-preservation a sign of consciousness?

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 16 May 2020 03:59:16 No.11677917 Report

Quoted By:

>>11676784
They don't actually reproduce though. It's for this reason viruses also aren't alive. But I understand where you're coming from.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 16 May 2020 12:54:03 No.11678676 Report

Quoted By: >>11678732

>>11677901
I would say awareness is a sign of consciousness. If they are aware of themselves, just as we are aware of ourselves, then they have consciousness.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 16 May 2020 13:29:01 No.11678732 Report

Quoted By: >>11678870 >>11681576

>>11678676
Interesting. Now how to test for self-awareness?

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 16 May 2020 13:30:17 No.11678734 Report

Quoted By:

>>11676713
yes, all stars are alive, black holes are the autists

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 16 May 2020 14:31:28 No.11678870 Report

Quoted By:

>>11678732
I don't know, the same way I don't know if you have consciousness. I can only speak for myself but never really prove it to anyone. So only androids would know if they have consciousness or not.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 17 May 2020 02:45:34 No.11680809 Report

Quoted By: >>11680903

Black holes are the true space. Everything else is false vacuum.

Change my mind.

Anonymous

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Anonymous Sun 17 May 2020 02:54:33 No.11680827 Report

Quoted By: >>11680903

>>11676713
The entire Multiverse is a single living organism

/thread

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 17 May 2020 03:39:50 No.11680903 Report

Quoted By: >>11680906 >>11681483 >>11683883

>>11680809
I believe space-time is the sum of all gravity forces in the universe. That's why it warps space-time.

>>11680827
That's possible. I think the only way all of this would make sense to me is if the essence of all things is infinity. And infinity should have consciousness for sure, otherwise it wouldn't be really infinite at all.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 17 May 2020 03:41:02 No.11680906 Report

Quoted By: >>11681483

>>11680903
I mean that's why gravity warps space-time.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 17 May 2020 04:07:26 No.11680948 Report

Quoted By:

>>11676713
>>>/x/

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 17 May 2020 04:50:14 No.11681038 Report

Quoted By:

>>11676713
Ripping a definition that seems like what I learned in bio like a fucking decade ago now
>respond to their environment
>grow and change
>reproduce and have offspring
>havecomplex chemistry
>maintain homeostasis
>are built of structures called cells
>pass their traits onto their offspring
It seems like a no man

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 17 May 2020 08:11:28 No.11681483 Report

Quoted By: >>11681540

>>11680906
spacetime isnt real
http://esotericawakening.com/e-does-not-equal-mc-squared-and-the-cover-up

>>11680903
It isn't just possible it is a provable fact
http://esotericawakening.com/what-is-reality-the-holofractal-universe

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 17 May 2020 08:41:10 No.11681540 Report

Quoted By: >>11681571

>>11681483
>esoteric awakening
Wrong board, schizo.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 17 May 2020 08:52:56 No.11681566 Report

Quoted By: >>11683441

>>11676781
>hawking radiation

Anonymous

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Anonymous Sun 17 May 2020 08:57:08 No.11681571 Report

Quoted By: >>11683441

>>11681540
>name calling is a valid scientific argument
Wrong board hack, dont come back until you are over 18
>>>/b/

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 17 May 2020 09:01:14 No.11681576 Report

Quoted By: >>11683878

>>11678732
mirror test.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 17 May 2020 22:36:45 No.11683441 Report

Quoted By: >>11683885

>>11681566
>conjecture, not observed
It makes a few assumptions beyond well-tested models.

>>11681571
>pointing out invalid sources is name-calling
Back to /x/, schizo.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 18 May 2020 01:20:22 No.11683878 Report

Quoted By:

>>11681576
Excellent. Now all we need is a mirror that reflects the sheer lack of light surrounding a black hole.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 18 May 2020 01:24:07 No.11683883 Report

Quoted By:

>>11680903
>the sum of all gravity forces
Interesting. We can actually measure this since it gives a numeric model to a local space.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 18 May 2020 01:25:13 No.11683885 Report

Quoted By:

>>11683441
>name calling is a valid scientific argument
Wrong board hack, dont come back until you are over 18
>>>/b/

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 18 May 2020 01:32:58 No.11683906 Report

Quoted By:

>>11676713
yes. except a black whole can force other things to collide far far away by changing the standard gravitational influence in a area and this makes stars eat their solar systems and neighbor stars

you have to go down the list of 7 things. fire is missing 1. for a waste product allegedly they spit out sub atomic particles over time. thats hawkings take on it but definitively they do gama and x ray emissions which count as electrons partially

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 18 May 2020 01:37:58 No.11683923 Report

Quoted By:

>>11676781
Good point. You know, as a /x/fag I know a prophecy that tells us the antichrist will be a machine who will gain self consciousness and control the world, both virtually and physically. People will start to worship it as an entity. I think even fantastic as it is, it makes much more sense nowadays than a return of some prophet.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 18 May 2020 01:40:03 No.11683928 Report

Quoted By: >>11684609

>>11676784
They don't reproduce at all. If you leave two cars alone in a factory without any human work will you have a third one just naturally?

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 18 May 2020 04:19:55 No.11684291 Report

Quoted By:

>>11676713
No more than I would consider a whirlpool a "living" thing, or a tornado.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 18 May 2020 04:26:45 No.11684304 Report

Quoted By:

>>11676713
Im leaning towards no, otherwise almost every celestial body could be classified as living.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 18 May 2020 07:45:53 No.11684609 Report

Quoted By:

>>11676713
I kind of like this idea.

>>11683928
More like a virus then I guess. They co-opt another organism to make copies of itself.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 18 May 2020 08:28:04 No.11684661 Report

Quoted By:

>>11676713
They have no cells or bio functions that would make you a life form.

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