/sci/ - Science & Math » Thread #11655453

120KiB, 1024x692, RTS27MFD-1024x692.jpg

View Same Google iqdb SauceNAO

Anonymous Sun 10 May 05:11:56 2020 No.11655453 View Reply Original Report

Quoted By: >>11655462 >>11655513 >>11655519 >>11655661 >>11655825 >>11655971 >>11656011

Is the ideal chess game a draw, or a white victory?

In other words, if chess becomes 100% "solved", is there a way for white to always win, or can black always draw them?

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 10 May 2020 05:15:07 No.11655462 Report

Quoted By: >>11655499

>>11655453
Time traveler here.

In 2262 it will get proven that black can always force a win. Screencap this post.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 10 May 2020 05:30:46 No.11655494 Report

Quoted By: >>11655956

Definitely a draw. The better players and machines get, the more draws they produce.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 10 May 2020 05:32:30 No.11655499 Report

Quoted By:

>>11655462
heh read it and seeth whitebois

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 10 May 2020 05:38:31 No.11655513 Report

Quoted By:

>>11655453

The best game is preferrably in the garbage

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 10 May 2020 05:43:32 No.11655519 Report

Quoted By: >>11655585

>>11655453
Depends on what you mean by “solved”. One of the basic results of mathematical logic is that by going first whites, while playing under the optimal strategy, can always at least draw

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 10 May 2020 06:31:12 No.11655585 Report

Quoted By: >>11655660

>>11655519
proofs?

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 10 May 2020 06:32:25 No.11655588 Report

Quoted By: >>11655599 >>11655651 >>11655653 >>11655731

Going first might force you into a losing state. I see no reason for white to have the advantage.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 10 May 2020 06:38:04 No.11655599 Report

Quoted By: >>11655607

>>11655588
white is well known to have an advantage, a big one

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 10 May 2020 06:42:50 No.11655607 Report

Quoted By:

>>11655599
that's only because blacks haven't figured out the optimal move yet

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 10 May 2020 06:51:24 No.11655618 Report

Quoted By:

dogwhistling ITT

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 10 May 2020 07:19:35 No.11655651 Report

Quoted By: >>11655753

>>11655588
>i see no reason for white to have an advantage
t. 105 iq brainlet

I swear /pol/ and /lit/ are the smartest boards.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 10 May 2020 07:20:36 No.11655653 Report

Quoted By:

>>11655588
can you leave and never return please? Rope yourself nigger.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 10 May 2020 07:23:23 No.11655660 Report

Quoted By: >>11655945

>>11655585
hes larping, he misunderstands similar arguments for other games.

t. 160iq dabbing on 130iq

Anonymous

View Same Google iqdb SauceNAO 1576042363566.jpg, 2MiB, 3537x4669

Anonymous Sun 10 May 2020 07:24:52 No.11655661 Report

Quoted By: >>11655957

>>11655453
White victory is always ideal.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 10 May 2020 08:26:27 No.11655731 Report

Quoted By:

>>11655588
>Going first might force you into a losing state. I see no reason for white to have the advantage.
Jesus christ why do you not know that playing as white in chess is a huge advantage?

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 10 May 2020 08:41:04 No.11655753 Report

Quoted By:

>>11655651
Zugzwangs exist.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 10 May 2020 09:04:43 No.11655795 Report

Quoted By: >>11655959

'Black wins' advocates argue that White is in an eternal state of 'Zugswang', eg they can only make their position worse, and Black can respond in a winning fashion. This is retarded because White can play 1Nf3 without committing to a hard structural change of their pawns.
White has more winning chances simply because they're a tempo up. They're always developing one piece faster than Black until they make a mistake.
The game is probably a draw, but we may not know for sure for a long time, and we'll never have a database of every possible position because it takes up too much space.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 10 May 2020 09:36:31 No.11655825 Report

Quoted By:

>>11655453
My intuition is both sides could force a draw

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 10 May 2020 11:05:27 No.11655945 Report

Quoted By: >>11655955

>>11655660
Its the same argument as the proof for the existence of a winning strategy of perfect information,sequential game on a tree(although you can enlighten me if you disagree). Pretty sure that it works as long as victory is defined as draw/win

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 10 May 2020 11:15:48 No.11655955 Report

Quoted By:

>>11655945
I also just googled, apparently this result is called Zermelo’s theorem, so you can look at that. Obviously, it has no relation to the real world

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 10 May 2020 11:16:44 No.11655956 Report

Quoted By:

>>11655494
The direction that unsolved games of chess lean towards don't suggest much about a solved game of chess.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 10 May 2020 11:17:49 No.11655957 Report

Quoted By:

>>11655661
Clearly Semitic nose bridge.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 10 May 2020 11:18:55 No.11655959 Report

Quoted By:

>>11655795
>we'll never have a database of every possible position because it takes up too much space.
That's a pretty naive belief, I think.

Anonymous

View Same Google iqdb SauceNAO greatsnake.png, 64KiB, 1600x800

Anonymous Sun 10 May 2020 11:25:59 No.11655971 Report

Quoted By:

>>11655453
I played Magnus at an open exhibition once and drew. To be fair, he had the upper hand but he was also playing 20 other guys so he probably wasn't on top form.
Anyway, I chose the Great Snake Variation and held my position pretty well. After he had defeated all the other 19 opponents, he pulled up a chair and sat down to finish the match with me. I have to say - it's really hard to attack him. He sees a LOT of lines, some of them I missed completely.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 10 May 2020 11:51:11 No.11656011 Report

Quoted By:

>>11655453
the question is, can chess even be completely solved?

Capcode	All Only User Posts Only Moderator Posts Only Admin Posts Only Developer Posts
Show Posts	All Only With Images Only Without Images
Deleted Posts	All Only Deleted Posts Only Non-Deleted Posts
Ghost Posts	All Only Ghost Posts Only Non-Ghost Posts
Post Type	All Only Sticky Threads Only Opening Posts Only Reply Posts
Results	All Grouped By Threads
Order	Latest Posts First Oldest Posts First

Your latest searches