/sci/ - Science & Math » Thread #11565964

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Anonymous Wed 15 Apr 02:57:43 2020 No.11565964 View Reply Original Report

Quoted By: >>11565972 >>11565974 >>11565983 >>11566703 >>11566717 >>11566738 >>11569467 >>11570357

Is real analysis/abstract algebra the point where math becomes pretty useless for engineering/science?

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 15 Apr 2020 03:00:56 No.11565972 Report

Quoted By:

>>11565964
No

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 15 Apr 2020 03:02:01 No.11565974 Report

Quoted By:

>>11565964
>engineering
perhaps
>science
Far from useless

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 15 Apr 2020 03:07:25 No.11565983 Report

Quoted By: >>11566051 >>11566070 >>11566450 >>11566492 >>11566502 >>11568111 >>11570766

>>11565964
If you're a literal monkey who will do nothing new in their field, yes. You can get by just knowing college algebra, statistics and a little bit of calculus in both of those fields.

However you will probably never actually understand the things you do. Ask the average statistics monkey to break down something as simple as why variations are squared and SDs are rooted and they'll give you a funny look. The formula is magic, they don't question it, they don't know how it was derived.

The 360 page proof of 1 + 1 = 2 in PM was a necessary step to the complete formalization of mathematics, which was the building block to all modern math. Without it, we wouldn't have the kinds of computers we have today.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 15 Apr 2020 03:11:27 No.11565993 Report

Quoted By:

There are a lot of engineering problems that would require real analysis and beyond to truly solve how the parameters relate to one another, but the fact is that a lot of engineering problems simply don't require that degree of accuracy, and empirically derived equations will be satisfactory to solve the problem. Especially if you're a civil engineer or the like where you get paid to measure concrete.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 15 Apr 2020 03:42:51 No.11566051 Report

Quoted By: >>11566058 >>11570357

>>11565983
We would have computers, theory doesn’t matter

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 15 Apr 2020 03:44:50 No.11566058 Report

Quoted By: >>11569475

>>11566051
you don't actually believe this, anon.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 15 Apr 2020 03:48:02 No.11566070 Report

Quoted By:

>>11565983
>The 360 page proof of 1 + 1 = 2 in PM was a necessary step to the complete formalization of mathematics
which failed lol

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 15 Apr 2020 06:18:51 No.11566450 Report

Quoted By:

>>11565983
>was a necessary step to the complete formalization of mathematics

JFL that was sidestepped by using ZF axioms and the entire formalization was shat on not only by pure mathematicians like godel but also computer pioneers like Church and Turing just shut up just shut the fuck up you fucking bitch shut up.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 15 Apr 2020 06:36:59 No.11566492 Report

Quoted By:

>>11565983
This is the stupidest shit I've ever read, and also the most pretentious shit I've ever read. 1+1=2 as a 360 page proof was a necessary step for computer science? Jesus fucking christ

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 15 Apr 2020 06:44:57 No.11566502 Report

Quoted By:

>>11565983
moron

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 15 Apr 2020 08:35:47 No.11566703 Report

Quoted By:

>>11565964
Theoretical concepts, like uniform continuity, keep you from wasting your time trying to solve the mystery of why your Fourier approximation isn’t giving you good numbers at “jumps” in your function.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 15 Apr 2020 08:44:20 No.11566717 Report

Quoted By:

>>11565964
To the virgin engineers, yes.

To the brainchad theoretical physicists, completely wrong.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 15 Apr 2020 08:59:40 No.11566738 Report

Quoted By:

>>11565964

real analys is pretty useless, abstract algebra is important for cryptography

Complex analysis is important for aeroengineers
topology could have some importance in AI perhaps.

but most of it is pretty usless yes.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 15 Apr 2020 18:53:17 No.11568111 Report

Quoted By: >>11570514

>>11565983
It wasn't a necessary step. Principia Mathematica was an attempt at formalizing mathematics under logic which was the main purpose of the logicism school of thought. Unfortunately, PM and along with Godel proved that such a feat is not possible.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 16 Apr 2020 01:43:57 No.11569467 Report

Quoted By:

>>11565964
>real analysis
No.
>abstract algebra
for engineers and non physicists, yes.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 16 Apr 2020 01:46:08 No.11569475 Report

Quoted By: >>11569519

>>11566058
>NOOOO YOU CAN'T JUST BUILD A COMPUTER WITHOUT THE MATHEMATICAL THEORY BEHIND IT
haha electrical thingy go brrr

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 16 Apr 2020 02:10:06 No.11569519 Report

Quoted By: >>11569646

>>11569475
You do understand the the Principa has jack shit to do with the development of boolean algebra and first order logic as applied to computer systems, right?

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 16 Apr 2020 02:15:47 No.11569528 Report

Quoted By:

No, the only difference is you don't have to look at the proofs, but you still need to understand statements of theorems, notation and terminology

Any engineer worth their salt should know say, when a Fourier series convergences which requires a basic understanding of measure theory and functional analysis, or know enough (preferably Lie) group theory to recognise symmetries and conservation laws in a physical problem

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 16 Apr 2020 02:59:24 No.11569646 Report

Quoted By:

>>11569519
I think that's what I was trying to emulate with my meme. I am mocking him with greentext and I am the boomer who gives 0 fucks.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 16 Apr 2020 08:19:06 No.11570357 Report

Quoted By: >>11570426

>>11565964
Real analysis is LITERALLY the most important thing in all of engineering.
Basically EVERY major result used in engineering is related to real analysis.

Imagine Engineering without:
>PDEs
>ODEs
>Integration theory

>>11566051
Absolutely not, well we might have giant warehouses full of gears running at 10Hz, but nothing more then that.
Electrical computers FUNDAMENTALLY require and understanding of electricity to model and optimize them, that understanding is derived almost exclusively from the Maxwell equations, a system of PDEs.
This doesn't mention, the coding theory, graph theory etc. for things like data transmission, circuit reduction and so on...

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 16 Apr 2020 09:00:46 No.11570426 Report

Quoted By: >>11570429

>>11570357
>that understanding is derived almost exclusively from the Maxwell equations

Not if you're Faraday

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 16 Apr 2020 09:03:22 No.11570429 Report

Quoted By:

>>11570426
Faraday died nearly 100 years before digital computers really became a feasible thing.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 16 Apr 2020 09:57:56 No.11570514 Report

Quoted By: >>11571220

>>11568111
Didn't Gödel just prove it was impossible to prove a systems consistency inside the system? That doesn't automatically mean that all systems are inconsistent

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 16 Apr 2020 12:25:18 No.11570766 Report

Quoted By: >>11570777

>>11565983
how do one prove 1+1=2 mathematically when mathematics is based on 1+1=2?

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 16 Apr 2020 12:29:01 No.11570777 Report

Quoted By:

>>11570766
mathematics are not based on 1+1=2. It actually takes a while to build basic arithmetic from ZFC and set theory.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 16 Apr 2020 15:40:45 No.11571220 Report

Quoted By:

>>11570514
Yes, but what formalism and logicism attempted to achieve in the early 20th century was to place mathematics under a formal system using logic. Principia Mathematica proved that this was not possible using logicism, and Godel proved that this isn't possible using formalism. In order to capture the full scope of mathematics, a language like logic isn't enough to do so.

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