/sci/ - Science & Math » Thread #11535195

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Anonymous Sun 05 Apr 14:13:36 2020 No.11535195 View Reply Original Report

Quoted By: >>11535205 >>11535494 >>11537979 >>11538441 >>11539627 >>11541439 >>11542339 >>11542503

we shouldnt fund NASA
change my mind

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 05 Apr 2020 14:16:18 No.11535205 Report

Quoted By: >>11535340 >>11538575

>>11535195
The burden of proof is on you.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 05 Apr 2020 15:20:44 No.11535340 Report

Quoted By: >>11535355 >>11535356 >>11535357 >>11535491

>>11535205
private entrepreneurship is more cost-effective

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 05 Apr 2020 15:28:16 No.11535355 Report

Quoted By: >>11535388

>>11535340
yes this is common knowledge, so what?

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 05 Apr 2020 15:28:51 No.11535356 Report

Quoted By: >>11539640

>>11535340
>more cost-effective
99% of what the US funds is pants on head retarded and we would be better of if they didn't.

Also private entrepreneurship will never do space exploration, which should be obvious...

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 05 Apr 2020 15:29:42 No.11535357 Report

Quoted By: >>11539647 >>11539704

>>11535340
There are exactly 0 economic incentives to fund speculative space exploration. Tourism is a meme and asteroid mining requires decades of tedious infrastructure building that no private company will ever be willing to pay for up front. The only reason SpaceX and BlueOrigin exist is because Musk and Bezos are autistic nerds with too much money who want to make Star Trek real—this is not a sustainable assumption to make about the space exploration industry.
Capitalism will never make our species interplanetary.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 05 Apr 2020 15:55:26 No.11535382 Report

Quoted By: >>11535412 >>11539632

First off OP the inevitable 'You're a faggot' and don't forget to namefag to know who you are.

We need to keep pioneering technology and spreading out into space because that's how we further all other progress and the scientific research going on in LEO right now is unbelievable. 3d printing meat. Solid head road into 3d printing human organs. Unbelievable. People out there pioneering is the future that keeps plebs like us trucking on and knowing the future will be better and brighter.

Yes NASA is somewhat stagnant and hamstringed by Congress even without being the kicking boy of Bipartisan politics and SpaceX is the future (hopefully Blue Origin too) but SpaceX wouldn't exist without NASA's contracts and funding. Critics like you have resulted in an almost stealth policy at NASA where they try to keep alot of their achievements and press as low key and niche as possible to stop backlash in the polls.

NASA costs $19 Billion a year. It returns 4.7 billion back into the Texas economy and $3.9 billion to Florida through more than 20 thousand jobs. 17 thousand being well paid Graduate positions fueling and inspiring a more academic workforce. It funds and collaborates hundreds of smaller companies in all realms of the Tech and science world and provides many patents and and inventions to the public domain often for free.

Interesting according to a NASA podcast early late last year the US military funds unclassified space operations to the tune of 22 billion dollars (how much is classified? 50%? 70%?) so NASAs funding is a drop in the water really. Less than a cent per American per year, isn't that what they say?

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 05 Apr 2020 15:58:33 No.11535388 Report

Quoted By: >>11535414 >>11535658

>>11535355
so we dont need government to take care of space exploration

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 05 Apr 2020 16:09:31 No.11535410 Report

Quoted By:

I agree, nothing of value has come out of NASA that couldn't have come out of military aerospace research, and with that being a private enterprise eighth companies like Lockheed, Raytheon, etc, it is better managed than some government entity like NASA. It is a waste of resources.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 05 Apr 2020 16:10:50 No.11535412 Report

Quoted By: >>11535418 >>11535421

>>11535382
There is nothing NASA is doing that isn't being done better by some already existing corporate entity. You're just a nerd

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 05 Apr 2020 16:11:02 No.11535414 Report

Quoted By:

>>11535388
We obviously do. Without government contracts there would be ZERO space exploration.

It is LITERALLY a waste of money.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 05 Apr 2020 16:12:04 No.11535418 Report

Quoted By: >>11535422 >>11535448 >>11535545

>>11535412
>There is nothing NASA is doing that isn't being done better by some already existing corporate entity.
Yes. Because NASA pays them to do their development for them!

These corporations exist exclusively because NASA exists.
There is no money in space exploration.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 05 Apr 2020 16:12:33 No.11535421 Report

Quoted By:

>>11535412
Give me examples of that that don't either directly depend on NASA funding or exist to service NASA contracts then.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 05 Apr 2020 16:12:44 No.11535422 Report

Quoted By: >>11535431 >>11535435

>>11535418
That's bullshit. Give proof

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 05 Apr 2020 16:15:45 No.11535431 Report

Quoted By:

>>11535422
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Launch_Alliance

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 05 Apr 2020 16:17:32 No.11535435 Report

Quoted By: >>11535457

>>11535422
Name a successful organization that does for-profit space exploration without relying on government contracts.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 05 Apr 2020 16:23:48 No.11535448 Report

Quoted By: >>11535457 >>11535463

>>11535418
>There is no money in space exploration.
0/10

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 05 Apr 2020 16:26:17 No.11535457 Report

Quoted By: >>11535460

>>11535448
See >>11535435

Which

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 05 Apr 2020 16:27:18 No.11535460 Report

Quoted By:

>>11535457
Which company has put people on the moon?

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 05 Apr 2020 16:27:28 No.11535463 Report

Quoted By: >>11535615

>>11535448
tell me, what's a solid near-term plan with clear steps that leads to profitability? One that doesn't rely on speculative technologies or infrastructure that don't currently exist like fuel depots.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 05 Apr 2020 16:33:30 No.11535491 Report

Quoted By: >>11535611

>>11535340
For certain cases.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 05 Apr 2020 16:34:32 No.11535494 Report

Quoted By: >>11535517 >>11538483 >>11538562

>>11535195
Wrong. NASA needs more funds. The problem isn't funds, the problem is management. NASA needs to focus on R/D more.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 05 Apr 2020 16:44:07 No.11535517 Report

Quoted By:

>>11535494
Is that still the case? The current administration has been a huge improvement.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 05 Apr 2020 16:59:34 No.11535545 Report

Quoted By: >>11538392 >>11538469

>>11535418
>umm not profitable sweaty!!
profit pales in comparison to the glory and betterment of all mankind. back reddit ancap brainlet

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 05 Apr 2020 17:20:35 No.11535611 Report

Quoted By:

>>11535491
nope

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 05 Apr 2020 17:21:37 No.11535615 Report

Quoted By: >>11535620

>>11535463
well here's an idea
>establish public space venture to help focus efforts of people who want to go to space, but have no chance in hell otherwise in the next 30-40 years. Use this mass of people to brainstorm ideas, designs, and mission plans to determine optimal and cost effective course of action to get the most people into space in the shortest period of time. Generate hype, get people interested, educated, and ready to invest. Serve as incubator for private enterprise missions, and customer base to existing space industries (no need to invent a rocket if you can just buy one)
>focus on near-earth asteroids with the immediate goal of ISRU.
>design modular space container with simplified launch vehicle. (the container is your fuel tank, rocket fuselage, and the payload) Design container to be a modular component that fits a wide variety of mission roles - in particular a ring that can be spun at or near 1g, modular station or depot, rigid truss (long electromagnetic launch platform), or non-atmospheric landing craft / base station. Container design should be simple enough to be manufactured in space from ISRU, and cheap enough that private parties could pay for their construction outright.
>near-term means of profitability are the construction of more containers (as these ones don't need to be launched), establishment of solar-powered boosting stations (ie, minimal amount of fuel to get to the nearest station, and free energy transfers from station A-B-C-D.. etc. Get anywhere in the solar system without waiting for a launch window. Collect shekles from transiting spacecraft conducting their own private missions.
>Establish larger spinning rings in LEO. Someone will probably want to start a business repairing satellites or cleaning up orbital debris. Collect renbts.
The way to make money in space is to have people in space. So get people into space, and shit will magically pay for itself.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 05 Apr 2020 17:24:46 No.11535620 Report

Quoted By: >>11535636

>>11535615
your idea is to build an apartment complex in space and you think that will magically pay for itself?

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 05 Apr 2020 17:31:26 No.11535636 Report

Quoted By:

>>11535620
not quite. you start by building land, which can be bought by private parties, and charged for use - the same way it works on earth.
However, land in space is basically any pressurized volume. All you have to do is let people purchase the container and pay for the rocket fuel. Put capitalism to work.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 05 Apr 2020 17:45:05 No.11535658 Report

Quoted By: >>11535711

>>11535388
okay I think I've been polite long enough. you are a genuine moron my friend - you've made a lazy low IQ thread without presenting a single argument, you then half-assedly argue against cost efficiency as if this hasn't been common knowledge for 50+ years and lacked the basic critical thinking capabilities to realise that *maybe* there are far more important variables to the US than cost?

what's worse is you clearly don't have the slightest clue about economics yet want to use an economic argument, if you must continue visiting this board then be a sweetheart and refrain from posting at least

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 05 Apr 2020 18:10:31 No.11535711 Report

Quoted By:

>>11535658
read rothbard faggot

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 05 Apr 2020 18:15:09 No.11535721 Report

Quoted By: >>11535902

NOOOOOOOOOOO YOU CANT LET MY STARS WARS DREAMS DIE!!!! NOOOOOOO

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 05 Apr 2020 19:26:36 No.11535902 Report

Quoted By: >>11538471

>>11535721
you can corwdfund it
dont force non-interested people to pay for it

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 06 Apr 2020 06:12:57 No.11537756 Report

Quoted By:

Without NASA we wouldn't have invented Tang, Velcro, and those pends that can write upside down.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 06 Apr 2020 08:12:03 No.11537979 Report

Quoted By:

>>11535195
NASA's main purpose isnt space exploration and research, but to spread billions of dollars in constituencies all around the USA.

Check how much does the indian mission to mars costed.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 06 Apr 2020 13:10:02 No.11538392 Report

Quoted By:

>>11535545

>the glory and betterment of all mankind

Is only an incentive for state institutions, not greedy corporations

Anonymous

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Anonymous Mon 06 Apr 2020 13:26:14 No.11538421 Report

Quoted By:

I'd argue that if the government is to be a huge spender in the economy (which despite my libertarian dreams, it looks like it will be for at least the near foreseeable future) I'd argue that science in general is much better way to spend the money as compared to things like welfare programs. Science is a self perpetuating cycle - as reputable institutions and companies form they attract more smart people to study & work there. You as a nation get to siphon off the world's smartest people. Also, you get the formation of a scientific industry - think of all the suppliers of lab equipment and highly specialised computational devices. If these companies become internationally standard, you can look forward to getting back some money through tax.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 06 Apr 2020 13:35:51 No.11538441 Report

Quoted By:

>>11535195
>make up two fake "indexes" to support my political ideals!

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 06 Apr 2020 13:51:26 No.11538462 Report

Quoted By:

We shouldn't fund any organisation with women working in it.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 06 Apr 2020 13:55:39 No.11538469 Report

Quoted By:

>>11535545
Did you read my post?

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 06 Apr 2020 13:57:10 No.11538471 Report

Quoted By:

>>11535902
>you can corwdfund it
You can't.

>dont force non-interested people to pay for it
Start by complaining that you are forced to literally pay for random countries inability to function a retarded Military and so on.
NASA is literally one of the most productive things the US government has ever done.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 06 Apr 2020 14:01:43 No.11538483 Report

Quoted By:

>>11535494
WRONG.

NASA is just another make-work factory for diversity hires, or at least it will be in 20 years. They will find a way to stretch a million dollars into a thousand.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 06 Apr 2020 14:50:08 No.11538562 Report

Quoted By: >>11538565

>>11535494
if we cannot leave space exploration to free market then what about more important sectors like food production? should we nationalise all farms?

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 06 Apr 2020 14:51:50 No.11538565 Report

Quoted By: >>11538675

>>11538562
>then what about more important sectors like food production?
Some sectors of food production can run and make money, others can't and need government subsidies.

There can be food production without government intervention
There can't be space exploration without government intervention.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 06 Apr 2020 14:55:39 No.11538575 Report

Quoted By:

>>11535205
The claim "we should fund nasa" is the positive claim and thus the burden of proof is on the person saying we should fund nasa, not the person saying we shouldn't.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 06 Apr 2020 15:35:11 No.11538675 Report

Quoted By: >>11538686

>>11538565
>There can't be space exploration without government intervention.
bullshit

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 06 Apr 2020 15:37:28 No.11538686 Report

Quoted By: >>11538808

>>11538675
Name one successful for profit space exploration company.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 06 Apr 2020 16:15:52 No.11538808 Report

Quoted By: >>11538811 >>11538816

>>11538686
they cannot go into the business because the state forbids them

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 06 Apr 2020 16:16:38 No.11538811 Report

Quoted By: >>11539081

>>11538808
>they cannot go into the business because the state forbids them
Which particular law forbids private space exploration?

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 06 Apr 2020 16:17:16 No.11538816 Report

Quoted By: >>11539081

>>11538808
wrong

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 06 Apr 2020 17:33:06 No.11539081 Report

Quoted By: >>11539097 >>11539135

>>11538811
>>11538816 As a result, the main international treaties dealing with space activities were heavily influenced by the belief that states were the only actors in space and that exploration could be peaceful only if states refrained from claiming ‘things’ that exist beyond the Earth as their own, and from taking any sort of weapons in space. Everything of value existing there was to be considered as belonging to humankind in general, and should be exploited, if at all, in the interest of all humans
https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Giancarlo_Genta/publication/270973892_Private_space_exploration_A_new_way_for_starting_a_spacefaring_society/links/5a54ba31a6fdcc51a619336f/Private-space-exploration-A-new-way-for-starting-a-spacefaring-society.pdf

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 06 Apr 2020 17:40:40 No.11539097 Report

Quoted By:

>>11539081
And?
The same exact thing goes for pretty much any natural resource, companies can benefit from rivers just fine if they obey some regulations, even though the "owner" of the river isn't the company itself and the exploitation of the river should be done in the interest of all citizens.

You are going to have to do better than that.
Were there any companies that lobbied the UN to be allowed to explore space?

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 06 Apr 2020 17:48:16 No.11539122 Report

Quoted By:

If you really want us to get off Earth, the first thing to do is to stop launching squishy bags of mostly water into low Earth orbit. It sucks up all of the space budget with very little return. Put all that money into robotics and automation. Let the machines go out and gather data (we already do this to an extent but needs to be orders of magnitude more) and to build the required infrastructure for squishy bags of mostly water to thrive off Earth.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 06 Apr 2020 17:52:27 No.11539135 Report

Quoted By: >>11539204

>>11539081
Most space treaties were agreed upon because everyone knew none of us were in a position yet to exploit much in space. Once it becomes economically viable to do so, those treaties will be thrown in the trash.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 06 Apr 2020 18:18:04 No.11539204 Report

Quoted By: >>11539213

>>11539135
it has always been economically viable to exploit space

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 06 Apr 2020 18:21:19 No.11539213 Report

Quoted By: >>11539345 >>11541340

>>11539204
So which companies are doing it? Or are trying to obtain the legal right to do so?

Just name a couple please.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 06 Apr 2020 19:14:43 No.11539345 Report

Quoted By: >>11539356

>>11539213
private companies arent allowed because the field is monopolised by the state and their actors

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 06 Apr 2020 19:17:56 No.11539356 Report

Quoted By: >>11539529

>>11539345
"OR ARE TRYING TO OBTAIN THE LEGAL RIGHT TO DO SO"

>monopolised by the state and their actors
I think you believe that monopolies are always the result of state intervention. Correct?
Which laws are forbidding companies to explore space and which companies are currently trying to change these laws.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 06 Apr 2020 20:13:59 No.11539529 Report

Quoted By: >>11539546

>>11539356
>"OR ARE TRYING TO OBTAIN THE LEGAL RIGHT TO DO SO"
i dont give a fuck about space

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 06 Apr 2020 20:22:25 No.11539546 Report

Quoted By:

>>11539529
>i dont give a fuck about space
We were arguing whether or not it is economically viable to explore space.
RIGHT?

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 06 Apr 2020 20:46:28 No.11539627 Report

Quoted By:

>>11535195

I assume your reasoning is because learning about space travel and the effects of various experiments in space have little to no meaning on humanity and that the money should be spent elsewhere.

There should be no companies that focus on sending humans into space. This shit is literally meaningless and has no, and arguably will never, have any impact on our lives. These billions could better be spent on earth.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 06 Apr 2020 20:48:44 No.11539632 Report

Quoted By: >>11540093 >>11541386

>>11535382
>We need to keep pioneering technology and spreading out into space because that's how we further all other progress and the scientific research going on in LEO right now is unbelievable. 3d printing meat. Solid head road into 3d printing human organs. Unbelievable. People out there pioneering is the future that keeps plebs like us trucking on and knowing the future will be better and brighter.

None of what you mentioned in the second half of your paragraph implies the need for pioneering space faring technology.

Anonymous

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Anonymous Mon 06 Apr 2020 20:50:54 No.11539640 Report

Quoted By: >>11541340

>>11535356
>Also private entrepreneurship will never do space exploration, which should be obvious...

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 06 Apr 2020 20:51:56 No.11539647 Report

Quoted By: >>11539876 >>11541343

>>11535357
If there's nothing to be gained from space exploration, as you claim, then why should we fund these colossally expensive projects?

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 06 Apr 2020 21:13:08 No.11539704 Report

Quoted By:

>>11535357
>this is not a sustainable assumption to make about the space exploration industry.
why?

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 06 Apr 2020 22:14:26 No.11539876 Report

Quoted By:

>>11539647
this

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 06 Apr 2020 23:18:03 No.11540093 Report

Quoted By: >>11541346 >>11541386

>>11539632
even if you see a need for it then you shouldnt force every taxpayer to pay for the thing that you want

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 07 Apr 2020 10:51:08 No.11541340 Report

Quoted By:

>>11539640
See >>11539213

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 07 Apr 2020 10:52:25 No.11541343 Report

Quoted By:

>>11539647
>If there's nothing to be gained from space exploration
There is. But it might take hundreds of years or longer for it to be profitable.

>why should we fund these colossally expensive projects?
Out of all things the US government funds NASA is better then almost every single other one.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 07 Apr 2020 10:53:26 No.11541346 Report

Quoted By:

>>11540093
>you shouldnt force every taxpayer to pay for the thing that you want
Start worrying about welfare and foreign aid first.

Literally burning money is better then most things the US government does...

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 07 Apr 2020 11:19:53 No.11541386 Report

Quoted By:

>>11539632
You’re moving the goalposts. Most of the A collosal part of the Earths carbon emissions are from server farms and the coal and oil use to cool them is astronomic. They’ll be cooled for free with no impact on out atmosphere (after the initial launches) when they are in space. Space industry is growing and already thriving. 3d printing meat and organs can only be done in zero G so too joining certain molecules for pharamaceutical experiments etc etc.

>>11540093
I can respect libertarianism but since the taxes are being spent anyway it might as well be on something that benefits the Human race as a whole, the taxpayers and their descendants. Not just given to Israel say.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 07 Apr 2020 11:48:12 No.11541439 Report

Quoted By: >>11542018 >>11543054

>>11535195
>economic freedom
>burgerland over Denmark
HAHAHA GTFO YOU ANGLX DEGENERATE

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 07 Apr 2020 16:52:23 No.11542018 Report

Quoted By: >>11542507

>>11541439
that index probably takes into account anti-freedom bullshit like gender equality etc.
t. euro

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 07 Apr 2020 18:40:28 No.11542339 Report

Quoted By: >>11542444

>>11535195
Imagine what kind of basic philistine bitch one would have to be to suggest that government shouldn't do anything aesthetic as space telescopes, planetary reconnaissance orbiters, and other projects that couldn't possibly return a profit directly, or be undertaken through private patronage before the world freezes over into some hellish oligopoly.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 07 Apr 2020 19:13:26 No.11542444 Report

Quoted By:

>>11542339
https://youtu.be/gDoIilJ-_Z0
GO GET A REAL JOB, DO SOMETHING THAT THE MARKET WANTS

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 07 Apr 2020 19:31:50 No.11542503 Report

Quoted By: >>11542987

>>11535195
>implying faggot OP has ever made enough money to pay taxes
Id rather fund nasa than useless eaters like you OP.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 07 Apr 2020 19:32:09 No.11542507 Report

Quoted By: >>11542846

>>11542018
Land of the free
The land where wrongthink in Twotter will ruin your career forever

Anonymous

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Anonymous Tue 07 Apr 2020 21:26:16 No.11542846 Report

Quoted By:

>>11542507

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 07 Apr 2020 22:29:23 No.11542987 Report

Quoted By:

>>11542503
>what is sales tax

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 07 Apr 2020 23:12:06 No.11543054 Report

Quoted By:

>>11541439
???

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