/sci/ - Science & Math » Thread #11355873

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Anonymous Mon 03 Feb 01:37:15 2020 No.11355873 View Reply Original Report

Quoted By: >>11355900 >>11356008 >>11356029 >>11356965 >>11356980 >>11358708 >>11358875

Lisp is very powerful.
Lisp is very easy to use.
Lisp has a boss garbage collector.
Lisp is easy to modify because lisp syntax treats programs and data in the same way which makes if easy to write programs that can modify their own code.

Why isn’t lisp more popular?

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 03 Feb 2020 01:49:41 No.11355900 Report

Quoted By:

>>11355873
(((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((I)))))))))(((((((((((don't)))))))))))))((know)))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((why))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))

KumKum

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KumKum Mon 03 Feb 2020 01:55:17 No.11355918 Report

Quoted By: >>11355938

Well, sell the idea to me then. What does LISP abstract away optimally that other languages don't? I don't care about the parenthesis meme.

From my stance all pro's and con's stem from adherence to parenthesis.
0 = (
1 = )
Lisp = (<Prog|Poly>)

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 03 Feb 2020 02:02:25 No.11355938 Report

Quoted By: >>11355949 >>11355960

>>11355918
The biggest thing offered by lisp is its macro system which allows the lisp programmer to easily create domain specific languages by using macros to transform the domain specific language into lisp code.

The second benefit is the ability to modify code while the program is running which makes writing code that repairs itself as it is running easy in lisp. Other languages make it hard to do such things.

The simple syntax of lisp is what makes such things easy to do.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 03 Feb 2020 02:04:27 No.11355943 Report

Quoted By: >>11355949 >>11356023

use haskell

KumKum

KumKum Mon 03 Feb 2020 02:06:11 No.11355949 Report

Quoted By:

>>11355938
So it can translate other code into LISP and can be dynamically updated because it does not differentiate between machine execute and machine read? And this is all because of syntax?

>>11355943
Then state the case. I use python personally more because I am a masochistic coder in that I prefer when my environ punishes me for being sub-optimal rather than slamming others.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 03 Feb 2020 02:09:07 No.11355960 Report

Quoted By: >>11355968 >>11355973 >>11355990

>>11355938
What is LISPs logical process for repairing its own code mid run? I can’t even conceptualize such a thing.

KumKum

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KumKum Mon 03 Feb 2020 02:12:54 No.11355968 Report

Quoted By: >>11355980

Between Haskell or LISP, which one rips through large data sets symbolically faster?

So far I have python purring and beyond comfort and boolean simplification of mathematical concerns what would be the point of changing?

>>11355960
Agreed. Unless there is always 1.5 threads running and a constant check cycle like a fucking monkey swing.
>4chan university = best university

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 03 Feb 2020 02:14:48 No.11355973 Report

Quoted By:

>>11355960
Read “Genetic Programming” by John Koza for examples of how to write lisp code that modifies itself, or just use google and you’ll be able to download the program described in the book and play around with it.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 03 Feb 2020 02:17:00 No.11355980 Report

Quoted By: >>11355999

>>11355968
>a constant check cycle like a fucking monkey swing.
>if a else b if b.1 is c then d else.....
I can’t even meme such a terrible concept why did you make me think of such a god awful thing oh fuck oh god

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 03 Feb 2020 02:23:43 No.11355990 Report

Quoted By: >>11355999

>>11355960
Macros and the fact that lisp treats code and data in the same format with the same syntax, which is really no syntax like assembly language, is what makes this self-modification of running code possible.

Writing a source code virus in lisp would be very easy to do, and probably also very fun to do.

KumKum

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KumKum Mon 03 Feb 2020 02:28:24 No.11355999 Report

Quoted By:

>>11355990
How the fuck? It would ONLY succeed by virtue of one faggot programmer obfuscating their own source code so much that instead of debugging or prettifying it every other coder that saw it just comitted sepuku.

>>11355980
From poop to the next thing that enters your mouth is a genetic algorithm when you think about it fellow monkey swinger.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 03 Feb 2020 02:32:01 No.11356008 Report

Quoted By:

>>11355873
I feel the same way with FORTRAN almost. It's so similar to C and C++. So much legacy code exists for it for computational chemists, yet we're almost entirely moved away from it. Why isn't FORTRAN more popular either?

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 03 Feb 2020 02:47:07 No.11356023 Report

Quoted By: >>11356035 >>11356997 >>11358690

>>11355943
But Haskell requires you to declare types and not use side effects. Lisp is a hacker language that allows you to rapidly write code w/o needing to test anything out first. You test the code out as you write it, and you don’t need to document anything because the lisp source code is the only documentation that you need.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 03 Feb 2020 02:54:24 No.11356029 Report

Quoted By: >>11356035 >>11356041

>>11355873
Lisp had its day when expert level AI were a thing. But after everyone got tired of it and found machine learning more potent/useful, everyone moved over to Python.

KumKum

KumKum Mon 03 Feb 2020 03:00:04 No.11356035 Report

Quoted By: >>11356046

>>11356023
How is the source code the ONLY documentation required with LISP?

>>11356029
I'm still in the Python camp. The final shove to Python being 3.0 only is my happiness because fuck the 2.x shit.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 03 Feb 2020 03:03:06 No.11356041 Report

Quoted By:

>>11356029
> But, LISP would be great for writing hacking tools.

Or for general “hacking” stuff like modifying emacs.

Or for writing compilers without needing to do much low-level stuff.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 03 Feb 2020 03:05:59 No.11356046 Report

Quoted By: >>11356049

>>11356035
Because I have a hacker mentality and love lisp because I can modify and debug code as it’s running so I don’t need to plan shit out.

Other languages make you plan and design before you write, lisp just lets you write code on the fly without needing to plan anything first.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 03 Feb 2020 03:07:29 No.11356049 Report

Quoted By: >>11356090

>>11356046
It’s also much more fun to write code.
It’s not so fun to document the code I write.
So the source code I make is the only documentation for the programs I make.

KumKum

KumKum Mon 03 Feb 2020 03:33:14 No.11356090 Report

Quoted By: >>11356113

>>11356049
So it is more a feature of your personality output, not the language itself? Tell me more.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 03 Feb 2020 03:43:25 No.11356113 Report

Quoted By: >>11356120 >>11356173 >>11357117

>>11356090
I love the way lisp has an interactive environment that allows me to write, run, and debug code on the fly as I’m running the program. It was made that way for AI research. I use it because I like making code that way. Somebody who plans everything out in advance might like another language, but the way lisp works fits very well with the way I like to code.

After the code is written it could then be optimized, but lisp allows programmers like me to write running code very quickly.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 03 Feb 2020 03:48:26 No.11356120 Report

Quoted By: >>11356173

>>11356113
AI researchers needed such a feature since they didn’t know what they needed to code to do until they wrote it. I need the feature because I’m a lazy hacker who doesn’t like to plan out the code I write.

Modifying and fixing code as it is running is very powerful no matter why you do it.

KumKum

KumKum Mon 03 Feb 2020 04:24:10 No.11356173 Report

Quoted By: >>11356866

>>11356113
>>11356120
In the sense of getting to meaningful output you can optimize or in that it helps you avoid over-planning because of semantic satiation?

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 03 Feb 2020 13:00:52 No.11356866 Report

Quoted By:

>>11356173
In the sense of getting something written very quickly because I have autism and adhd and odd and I am very impatient and want results quickly without needing to do a lot of preplanning before I start writing code.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 03 Feb 2020 14:16:41 No.11356965 Report

Quoted By: >>11356998

>>11355873
Because it isn't a functional programming language (quote violates beta reduction).
It is borderline cool though, I admit.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 03 Feb 2020 14:33:05 No.11356980 Report

Quoted By: >>11356996

>>11355873
This image is retard. Scheme has no define-macro, only those syntax-rule, define-syntax, let-syntax and such. Scheme macro system is also less powerful than the Common Lisp's one and Scheme is too minimal to do anything serious with.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 03 Feb 2020 14:41:41 No.11356996 Report

Quoted By:

>>11356980
I only use Common Lisp.
I never used Scheme.
I’m trying to learn Racket now.
So I can’t say much about the Scheme macro system.
Or the Racket macro system.
But, the Common Lisp macro system is very powerful.
I haven’t seen anything as powerful as Common Lisp macros in any other language.

Other programmers, do any other languages have a macro system that is as powerful as the Common Lisp macro system?

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 03 Feb 2020 14:42:27 No.11356997 Report

Quoted By: >>11357000

>>11356023
>But Haskell requires you to declare types
Haskell has hindley milner type inference. As long as you keep your function arguments monomorphic don't use polymorphic recursion you don't have to write any type annotations for your functions.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 03 Feb 2020 14:42:51 No.11356998 Report

Quoted By:

>>11356965
I don’t care about how functionality pure lisp is.
I just use lisp because it allows me to write complex code very quickly w/o the need to plan anything out. What is called rapid prototyping?

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 03 Feb 2020 14:45:40 No.11357000 Report

Quoted By: >>11357005

>>11356997
Ok. That sounds cool. Just like the declare special-form in lisp. You can define types if you want to, but you don’t have to do it.

How powerful are macros in Haskell? Can you write code rewriting code or code that transforms itself in Haskell.

I’d Haskell has a powerful macro system, I might need to look into it as a viable language.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 03 Feb 2020 14:50:42 No.11357005 Report

Quoted By:

>>11357000
Template Haskell is based on this paper: https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/research/wp-content/uploads/2016/02/meta-haskell.pdf
GHC's manual has a section on Template Haskell: https://downloads.haskell.org/~ghc/latest/docs/html/users_guide/glasgow_exts.html#template-haskell

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 03 Feb 2020 15:51:33 No.11357117 Report

Quoted By: >>11357350 >>11358688

>>11356113
Jupyter works the same way but for python

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 03 Feb 2020 17:54:15 No.11357350 Report

Quoted By:

>>11357117
I’ll need to try Jupiter out then: so I can have access to all the python packages.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 04 Feb 2020 05:38:38 No.11358688 Report

Quoted By:

>>11357117
>Jupyter
That's the good shit.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 04 Feb 2020 05:44:04 No.11358690 Report

Quoted By:

>>11356023
>Lisp is a hacker language
Are you 12?

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 04 Feb 2020 05:57:09 No.11358708 Report

Quoted By:

>>11355873
Lisp is clamped.
C++ is vaccinated.
Python is circumcised.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 04 Feb 2020 09:02:31 No.11358875 Report

Quoted By:

>>11355873
>Lisp is very easy to use
Because this is a lie.

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