/sci/ - Science & Math » Thread #11290131

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Anonymous Fri 10 Jan 01:28:19 2020 No.11290131 View Reply Original Report

Quoted By: >>11290139 >>11290228 >>11290236 >>11290458 >>11291284 >>11291383 >>11291407 >>11291451 >>11291483

Is the cult-like worship of university prestige, precociousness, and the almost hagiographic stories of past mathematicians and scientists ultimately bad for science and math?

People in the scientific community are obsessed with the ivy league, people showing talent at an early age, and spouting debunked stories about past mathematicians doing impossible calculations and memorizations in seconds rather than what you can actually do right now. It isn't just popsci. It's a sickening mentality that is everywhere in academia and research as well.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 10 Jan 2020 01:30:03 No.11290139 Report

Quoted By:

>>11290131
Also take into account that many of the great scientists started later in life. Many of the great German mathematicians started doing math way later in life as a hobby on the side. However there is a disgusting idea that if you didn't take math 55 at Harvard when you were 14 and get IMO medals, you are a fucking retard that won't even accomplish anything.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 10 Jan 2020 01:34:02 No.11290149 Report

Quoted By: >>11290361 >>11291103 >>11291451

I don’t know. I think precociousness actually is associated with high achievement. And by “high” I mean like pic related. You might still be really good, but not truly great. Watch Amadeus for more information.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 10 Jan 2020 02:02:48 No.11290228 Report

Quoted By: >>11291383

>>11290131
Probably. The current state of academia is horrible for students. Most kids are clinically retarded. And the dedicated precocious ones usually have personality problems.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 10 Jan 2020 02:05:21 No.11290236 Report

Quoted By:

>>11290131
Yes, it's supremacist

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 10 Jan 2020 02:49:59 No.11290333 Report

Quoted By: >>11290346 >>11291457

Calculation skills can be trained in a solidly manner.
https://youtu.be/HKphPZ9YmUc?t=250
>nooo but if u dont make calculation with your mind`s eye using THAT arbitrary number base system with THAT arbitrary algorithm doesnt count!!!!

Memorization can be trained too and this is well known since thousands of years ago.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Method_of_loci

>nooo cheating! if you can not retrive visual memory perfectly then does not count!

Problem solving skills also can be trained -> Polya and other great mathematicians agree with me.

The only thing that mighty not have an way to train is intuition, > which is not an rational process at all<, so yeah, someone can actually try argue that >Its over if you didnt born an Ramanujan

The problem is that capable people are prideful and believe that hardwired memory/arithimetic skills in brain are more valuable than these same skills learned, so suffer from an inferiority complex for being born without them.

That`s because people dont accept who they are or what they need, instead of focus in results (outputs) they focus in the means (procedures),romantizing an arbitrary ideal of cognition. In the end, even intelligent (capable of learn) people can be fucking enviouss for no objective reason...

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 10 Jan 2020 02:57:24 No.11290346 Report

Quoted By: >>11290363 >>11290376

>>11290333
The biggest talent a person can have is an honest interest and curiosity in the subject.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 10 Jan 2020 03:04:34 No.11290361 Report

Quoted By: >>11290383

>>11290149
Maybe precociousness just means you are good at drawing attention. Drawing attention means you're more likely to be remembered.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 10 Jan 2020 03:05:55 No.11290363 Report

Quoted By: >>11290376

>>11290346
The second biggest talent is a lack of ego as a motive for the pursuit.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 10 Jan 2020 03:11:20 No.11290376 Report

Quoted By:

>>11290363
>>11290346
Yes meek and easily transferred/trained qualities are the only reason someone would be remarkable, all those people who were remarkable but lacked these qualities were beneficiaries of inordinate environmental aids that masked their internal deficiencies. We are all equal and you are not at all pathetic in any respect relative to anyone except for those things you can control which might shame another person in some way.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 10 Jan 2020 03:15:46 No.11290383 Report

Quoted By: >>11290391

>>11290361
Nah. It just means you spent more time doing a thing than other people. Particularly, during the all-important developmental phase, where your brain is literally being molded by everything you experience and do.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 10 Jan 2020 03:18:14 No.11290391 Report

Quoted By:

>>11290383
>you spend more time doing hard things than other people
why?

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 10 Jan 2020 03:56:51 No.11290458 Report

Quoted By: >>11290605 >>11290707

>>11290131
yes, Jews have always needed to do this in order to have the goys believe they are more important than they really are because they are always afraid the goys will expel them for their tricks.
>If I trick the goys into believing they need me, i get to stay in their host nation rent free
It's actually disgusting since it results in a self-fulfilling prophecy in which Jews gain the most resources to succeed by those who have been fooled
they force the media to exaggerate their achievements while downplaying achievements of others.
If you look at your school's publication, it's always a Jew that heads it and if you ever spoke with israeli professors, you'd think they bought their degree.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 10 Jan 2020 05:38:52 No.11290605 Report

Quoted By: >>11291278 >>11291467

>>11290458
>people that are successful are bad because they only worked hard to take over the world!!! (Possibly kill babies OWO)

Grow up

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 10 Jan 2020 06:31:23 No.11290707 Report

Quoted By:

>>11290458
>if you ever spoke with israeli professors
ya, they're awesome, they crack jokes left and right. honestly better than TV humour: lectures, not so much

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 10 Jan 2020 12:28:33 No.11291103 Report

Quoted By:

>>11290149
More child prodigies amount to nothing. Not because they are actually dumb, likely, but because they get pampered and don't realize hard work trumps talent

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 10 Jan 2020 13:49:38 No.11291278 Report

Quoted By:

>>11290605

What he’s saying is true. Jews exalt their own coethnics, and badmouth everyone else as just irrational and raciss.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 10 Jan 2020 13:56:57 No.11291284 Report

Quoted By:

>>11290131
>university prestige
Good
>precociousness
Bad
>hagiographic stories
Bad

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 10 Jan 2020 14:53:04 No.11291383 Report

Quoted By:

>>11290131
At the moment a lot of project and issues became so complex that we can't really have a single extraordinarily talented person figure it all out. Most projects are done with 3-5 people at least inside university and academia. Modern extraordinarily achieving researchers always have a bunch of co-authors on their articles.

>>11290228
I think it's a very bad idea of society in general to make university some kind of place you go to, to prepare you for a job. Many jobs out there require no degree and could be assigned to literal braindeads. Still they pay median wage so might as well request academic degree since everyone fell into the meme that they're essential (and thus it kind of became a self fulfilling prophecy now you must get a degree to get a basic bitch job paying median wage).

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 10 Jan 2020 15:04:15 No.11291407 Report

Quoted By: >>11291562

>>11290131
>hagiographic stories of past mathematicians
I guess like Gauss being a mathematician at the age of 3 or Newton being a superhuman.
Btw, I don't know about /sci/ taste, but have you seen the film Good Will Hunting. Related to the topic.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 10 Jan 2020 15:34:52 No.11291451 Report

Quoted By:

>>11290131
Yes. It is bad for whole mankind. People think that if they are not excellent at beginning, they will never be. This leads to people only doing things that they are good right away or with only little practice. This leads people to be sad old mans like James May.
>>11290149
Do you have sources for that believe? What is associated with high achievements is hard work, not some gifts at early age. If you compare any great person, what is common for them all is that they did lot of work to achieve whatever they did. There is no human being who was good at beginning of their lives in any other things than shitting pants and sucking titties. Everything important is learned. This is what makes human a great species.

I think everyone asking if they can achieve greatness and are dreaming of some abilities should read study called "The role of deliberate practice in the development expert performance".
As name implies it is about effect of hard work when it comes to developing skills for performing at expert level. According to it, one needs to use around decade for improving oneself before they achieve great results and there is no need to have any gifts at beginning.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 10 Jan 2020 15:40:28 No.11291457 Report

Quoted By:

>>11290333
saying intuition doesn't improve over time is fucking retarded.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 10 Jan 2020 15:45:36 No.11291467 Report

Quoted By:

>>11290605
Why can't you just accept that you have Jewish privilege which far outranks any privilege in the world.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elizabeth_Wurtzel
Jewess, Ramaz school (Jewish school) -> Harvard, 160 LSAT and still yale law
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Josh_Brener
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jared_Kushner
Harvard is a complete joke these days

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 10 Jan 2020 15:50:30 No.11291483 Report

Quoted By: >>11291488 >>11291545 >>11291638

>>11290131
something something if their was an infinite amount of time and a finite number of immortal monkey's they would... Of course people that aren't talented can make discoveries. I would assume that they would definitely be the minority to those that are talented. Just think. Use your fucking head. Who wins the race? A hardworking man that is profoundly talented, a hardworking man that isn't talented, a lazy man that is talented, or a lazy man that isn't talented? Moreover, who would you want on your fucking team that's trying to make new discoveries? Why would I want some fucking idiots that can't keep up with me and can't push their fucking load. It's not a sickening mentality. It is just reality.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 10 Jan 2020 15:51:48 No.11291488 Report

Quoted By:

>>11291483
excuse my grammar

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 10 Jan 2020 16:20:20 No.11291545 Report

Quoted By:

>>11291483
>something something if their was an infinite amount of time and a finite number of immortal monkey's they would... Of course people that aren't talented can make discoveries. I would assume that they would definitely be the minority to those that are talented. Just think. Use your fucking head. Who wins the race? A hardworking man that is profoundly talented, a hardworking man that isn't talented, a lazy man that is talented, or a lazy man that isn't talented? Moreover, who would you want on your fucking team that's trying to make new discoveries? Why would I want some fucking idiots that can't keep up with me and can't push their fucking load. It's not a sickening mentality. It is just reality.
One could argue that higher levels of autism aren't productive either.

150+ iq mathematicians shitting abstract mathematical bullshit isn't a discovery, it's sophisticated mental masturbation for people disconected from reality.
Is not different than solving really difficult sudokus.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 10 Jan 2020 16:27:04 No.11291562 Report

Quoted By:

>>11291407
>have you seen the film Good Will Hunting
Not OP, but yes I have seen it. In undergrad, a classmate invited me over for movie night. He had prepared that movie for us to see together. He told me he had already seen it, but thought it was so good that he wanted to watch it again together with me. I tried to suggest that we could see a movie that both of us hadn't seen, but he insisted he wanted to show me that particular movie. Lmao!

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 10 Jan 2020 17:08:08 No.11291638 Report

Quoted By:

>>11291483
>something something if their was an infinite amount of time and a finite number of immortal monkey's they would...
Exactly. They could just churn through all the permutations.
>finite number of immortal monkeys
>finite
Ehm, maybe not all!
>Who wins the race?
>Why would I want some fucking idiots that can't keep up with me and can't push their fucking load.
With all other things being equal, speed will secure the victory. If you don't know where to go, then greater speed will make it possible to exhaust all positions by brute force even faster. Thus speed is relevant in the same way that time is relevant to the monkey.

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