/sci/ - Science & Math » Thread #11229149

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Anonymous Mon 16 Dec 00:31:16 2019 No.11229149 View Reply Original Report

Quoted By: >>11229170 >>11229192 >>11229201 >>11229389 >>11229448 >>11229452 >>11229453 >>11229538 >>11229844 >>11229990 >>11231315 >>11231347 >>11231456 >>11232586 >>11233318 >>11234014

GOD DAMMIT
WHY IS PI 3.14
DON’T DUMB IT DOWN
WHY DOES CIRCUMFRENCE/DIAMETER ~= 3.14
I’m assuming there’s an actual mathematical reason for it. Don’t just give me a series, explain why that series is the same as circumfrence/diameter.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 16 Dec 2019 00:34:49 No.11229158 Report

Quoted By: >>11229200

it's just a ratio
it's a mathematical constant so there is no understood reason for it

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 16 Dec 2019 00:38:42 No.11229170 Report

Quoted By:

>>11229149
Because two digits of pi are pretty easy to remember while approximating it to just shy over a twentieth of a percent of error.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 16 Dec 2019 00:40:15 No.11229173 Report

Quoted By: >>11229244

It's just what they discovered it to be. They measured this and got this number. It just happened to be so. No point in getting angry with cold facts.

Anonymous

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Anonymous Mon 16 Dec 2019 00:50:00 No.11229192 Report

Quoted By: >>11229241 >>11229727 >>11234564

>>11229149
As the number of sides of the polygon goes to infinity, the perimeter of the polygon goes to $2 \pi r$ and my sides go into orbit from brainlets not understanding absolutely basic stuff.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 16 Dec 2019 00:52:23 No.11229200 Report

Quoted By: >>11229203 >>11229206

>>11229158
>it's just a ratio
>it's a mathematical constant so there is no understood reason for it

Everything you just said is patently false.

That's a funny way of s

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 16 Dec 2019 00:52:46 No.11229201 Report

Quoted By: >>11229409 >>11229501 >>11233205

>>11229149
ok.
would it be more reasonable to be 1?
why not 10? why not 2? 100 is another nice number. why not -20?

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 16 Dec 2019 00:53:37 No.11229203 Report

Quoted By: >>11229206

>>11229200
way of saying expression*

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 16 Dec 2019 00:55:48 No.11229206 Report

Quoted By: >>11229228 >>11229509

>>11229200
>>11229203
tooker please
no you did not design the ratio of circumference to diameter by travelling back in time sand and god god trinity basedboy

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 16 Dec 2019 01:06:07 No.11229228 Report

Quoted By:

>>11229206
Shut up nigger, what do you know about life?
Please live around 30 years more, have sex, and then you can come speaking to me like that

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 16 Dec 2019 01:15:02 No.11229241 Report

Quoted By:

>>11229192
I assumed it would be something like this.
Can you link me to any articles or videos going through this in detail?
Even better, any articles or videos going over where we get our formula for the ratio between a regular polygon’s number of sides and the “diameter” (although I’m not sure what that would mean for a polygon with fewer sides than a circle) (I’m assuming this is the right way to consider the question).

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 16 Dec 2019 01:16:05 No.11229244 Report

Quoted By: >>11229319 >>11229370 >>11229394 >>11233978

>>11229173
But WHY. God dammit. HOW did they discover it to be that, through using basic geometric axons and logic, not getting out a tape measure.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 16 Dec 2019 01:51:03 No.11229308 Report

Quoted By: >>11229417

Its a hint from nature to tell us that we have our shit all wrong. Or at the very least to tell us that by superimposing abstract human constructs on reality will yield such absurdities as pi.

Pi is like trying to squeeze a round peg into a square hole. It just doesn't work. Nature tell us that very simple fact by giving a number which can never be precisely measured.

Or think of it this way. Take the line of a circle. The outside perimeter will always be greater than the inside perimeter. But its just an abstract one dimensional line, right?!!! Oh really? Then why are trying to find the value of a ratio across two dimension using a one dimensional construct? So we will make a two dimensional line! And then you are right back at what I said earlier: The outside perimeter will always be greater than the inside perimeter.

Come up with a better model construction of reality other than by using our existing concept of spatial dimensions, a concept which has been with us ever since we evolved depth perception as ancient ancestral fishes or something. I'm all ready to hear it.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 16 Dec 2019 01:59:26 No.11229319 Report

Quoted By:

>>11229244
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DLZMZ-CT7YU

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 16 Dec 2019 02:19:01 No.11229370 Report

Quoted By: >>11229375

>>11229244
>But WHY
not a scientific or mathematical question ;3

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 16 Dec 2019 02:22:02 No.11229375 Report

Quoted By: >>11229506 >>11229533

>>11229370
Elaborate

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 16 Dec 2019 02:26:00 No.11229389 Report

Quoted By:

>>11229149
>WHY DOES CIRCUMFRENCE/DIAMETER ~= 3.14
because it is actually 22/7
when you divide 22 ( the number that is twice of 11 ) then divide by 7 ( the number associated with luck) you are able to create a circle

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 16 Dec 2019 02:28:28 No.11229394 Report

Quoted By:

>>11229244
You know there's books on this?

A History of Pi is pretty good.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 16 Dec 2019 02:36:49 No.11229409 Report

Quoted By: >>11229541

>>11229201
well in base pi it is 1 so chew on that buddy

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 16 Dec 2019 02:41:58 No.11229415 Report

Quoted By:

there's a civilization of sentient animals somewhere far away in the universe who also discovered Pi and also wonder the same question

Anonymous

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Anonymous Mon 16 Dec 2019 02:43:41 No.11229417 Report

Quoted By:

>>11229308
>Round peg into a square hole doesn't work
>One dimensional line

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 16 Dec 2019 02:43:54 No.11229419 Report

Quoted By:

Obviously I am not giving a satisfactory answer, but the reason pi = 3.14... is because the radius of a circle with circumference C=1 is R=(2*3.14...)^-1. If you start with the unit interval and bend it into a circle, that is just how the radius comes out. It's like the blueness of the sky, the greenness of leaves, etc...

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 16 Dec 2019 02:59:31 No.11229440 Report

Quoted By:

>>There is a proof in the book called "Elementary Geometry from an Advanced Standpoint". The theorem say something like this: For all circles A and B we have that Diameter[A]/Circumference[A] = Diameter(B)/Circumference.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 16 Dec 2019 03:01:05 No.11229448 Report

Quoted By:

>>11229149
There is a proof in the book called "Elementary Geometry from an Advanced Standpoint". The theorem say something like this: For all circles A and B we have that Diameter[A]/Circumference[A] = Diameter(B)/Circumference.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 16 Dec 2019 03:04:57 No.11229452 Report

Quoted By:

>>11229149
There is a proof in the book called "Elementary Geometry from an Advanced Standpoint". The theorem say something like this: For all circles A and B we have that Circumference[A]/Diameter[A] = Circumference/Diameter.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 16 Dec 2019 03:05:11 No.11229453 Report

Quoted By:

>>11229149
That's the way it is it's an intrinsic property to reality, asking "why" wont get you anywhere.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 16 Dec 2019 03:32:44 No.11229501 Report

Quoted By:

>>11229201
Because we randomly chose the length of 1 meter.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 16 Dec 2019 03:34:54 No.11229506 Report

Quoted By:

>>11229375
Science only describes shit, doesn't tell you what to do with it

Anonymous

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Anonymous Mon 16 Dec 2019 03:35:59 No.11229509 Report

Quoted By:

>>11229206
ir·ra·tion·al
/i(r)?raSH(?)n?l/

(of a number, quantity, or expression) not expressible as a ratio of two integers, and having an infinite and nonrecurring expansion when expressed as a decimal. Examples of irrational numbers are the number ? and the square root of 2.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 16 Dec 2019 03:49:12 No.11229533 Report

Quoted By:

>>11229375
You asked a question that is in the realm of humanities, not science or math. What the fuck more elaboration do you want?

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 16 Dec 2019 03:51:44 No.11229538 Report

Quoted By: >>11231328

>>11229149
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ineO1tIyPfM
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCs4aHmggTfFrpkPcWSaBN9g/videos

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 16 Dec 2019 03:52:07 No.11229539 Report

Quoted By: >>11229621 >>11232388

Humans invented numbers they didn’t just spring out of the ether. The fact that it’s 3.14 is an artifact of our measuring and communication systems.

Anonymous

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Anonymous Mon 16 Dec 2019 03:53:08 No.11229541 Report

Quoted By: >>11229578

>>11229409
no it isn't
it's 10

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 16 Dec 2019 04:23:59 No.11229576 Report

Quoted By:

Working on an actual answer to OP, stay tuned

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 16 Dec 2019 04:25:33 No.11229578 Report

Quoted By:

>>11229541
>astronaut:
>there are IIII rocks
>alien:
>oh agree! I now understand your number system. indeed there are IIII rocks

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 16 Dec 2019 04:57:26 No.11229621 Report

Quoted By:

>>11229539
not really. pi, e and other mathematical constants are the same anywhere in the universe that abides to the same physical rules as us

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 16 Dec 2019 05:13:36 No.11229651 Report

Quoted By: >>11229840 >>11233975

A circle is defined as:
$x^2 + y^2 = r^2$
If you only include the top half of the circle:
$y = \sqrt{r^2 - x^2}$
Applying the arc length formula:
$C = 2\displaystyle\int_{-1}^1{\sqrt{1 + \left(\dfrac{-x}{\sqrt{r^2 - x^2}}\right)^2}}dx$
This ends up as 2pi*r.
Diameter is 2r, so, the circumference to diameter proportion is pi.
You could also look up Archimedes method for intuition into a more geometric demonstration.
For more depth, the integral results in a trigonometric function, which can be understood in the frame of complex analysis without the need for circular reasoning with pi.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 16 Dec 2019 05:57:47 No.11229727 Report

Quoted By:

>>11229192
this
11th grade me tried being the genius to FINALLY figure out the true value of pi and ended up just figuring this out myself

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 16 Dec 2019 07:18:20 No.11229840 Report

Quoted By:

>>11229651
You end up doing trig subs to solve it, and pi is built into trigonometric formulas

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 16 Dec 2019 07:21:39 No.11229844 Report

Quoted By: >>11231310

>>11229149
I'm feeling charitable

1) you are a complete retard if you are incapable of even checking wikipedia

2) here is the wiki link, faggot
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pi#Polygon_approximation_era

Anonymous

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Anonymous Mon 16 Dec 2019 09:28:01 No.11229990 Report

Quoted By:

>>11229149
Watch this video op.
Its goes into historic perspective how pi was constructed.
>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lcIbCZR0HbU

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 16 Dec 2019 22:25:04 No.11231310 Report

Quoted By:

>>11229844
Congrats faggot your link explains nothing
I’ll charitably tell you to kill yourself

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 16 Dec 2019 22:30:08 No.11231315 Report

Quoted By: >>11232176

>>11229149
pi can be any number you want. Just change the base you are using.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 16 Dec 2019 22:36:05 No.11231328 Report

Quoted By:

>>11229538
/thread

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 16 Dec 2019 22:42:17 No.11231347 Report

Quoted By:

>>11229149
I circle with a diameter of 1 has a circumference of just over 3.14.

You guys are all dumb.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 16 Dec 2019 23:39:05 No.11231456 Report

Quoted By:

>>11229149
https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=241&v=kgN1F9MFhnk&feature=emb_title
Skip to the 4:00 minute mark. This one seems like a pretty solid explanation, although it shies away from using mathematical limits to get the full experience.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 17 Dec 2019 04:33:12 No.11232176 Report

Quoted By:

>>11231315
depending on how many points you are counting pi the base number affects it quite badly

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 17 Dec 2019 04:45:05 No.11232191 Report

Quoted By:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XanjZw5hPvE

Obligatory

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 17 Dec 2019 06:26:53 No.11232388 Report

Quoted By: >>11232432

>>11229539
There is no such thing as "invention" at all so it's not possible for humans to "invent numbers".

Anonymous

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Anonymous Tue 17 Dec 2019 06:49:09 No.11232432 Report

Quoted By: >>11233180

>>11232388
Say that to this calculator.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 17 Dec 2019 08:04:24 No.11232586 Report

Quoted By: >>11232721

>>11229149
Measurement made by man is meaningless

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 17 Dec 2019 08:59:57 No.11232721 Report

Quoted By: >>11233208

>>11232586
wow this is so deep lets give him a nobel prize

Anonymous

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Anonymous Tue 17 Dec 2019 09:54:54 No.11232822 Report

Quoted By:

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 17 Dec 2019 14:35:52 No.11233180 Report

Quoted By: >>11233198

>>11232432
That's a discovery, the human discovered an arrangement materials that moves and performs actions a certain way.

There is no such thing as "invention" everything is discovered including languages and mathematics.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 17 Dec 2019 14:50:08 No.11233198 Report

Quoted By: >>11233211

>>11233180
I see. You disagree with the common definition and can't get past that to have meaningful dialogue.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 17 Dec 2019 14:52:58 No.11233205 Report

Quoted By:

>>11229201
Because we live in apparently Euclidean space, so Euclidean rules apply. If space weren't Euclidean then maybe PI would be a masrhmallow. But with things as they are, it's 3.14159265....

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 17 Dec 2019 14:55:56 No.11233208 Report

Quoted By:

>>11232721
prize made by man is meaningless

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 17 Dec 2019 15:01:40 No.11233211 Report

Quoted By: >>11233958

>>11233198
I understand the "common definition", it's wrong. It's not about me "not being able to get past that to have a meaningful dialogue" it's you holding onto a common but objectively wrong interpretation about how things are.

Anonymous

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Anonymous Tue 17 Dec 2019 16:15:25 No.11233318 Report

Quoted By: >>11233319

>>11229149
There's an obvious way to measure the lengths of line segments using the Pythagorean theorem, and by extension a curve composed of finitely many line segments. You run into trouble when the curve is more general.
Mathematicians define a curve to be rectifiable if as you approximate the curve with line segments and calculate the lengths of the approximate curves composed of line segments, the lengths converge to some number as the number of line segments and the maximum length of a line segment goes to infinity.
A circle defined by the equation x^2 + y^2 = 1 has been proven to be rectifiable, and the limit of the lengths that the approximating curves approach is proven to be an irrational number somewhere between 3 and 3.2. We call that number pi.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 17 Dec 2019 16:16:28 No.11233319 Report

Quoted By:

>>11233318
>as the number of line segments and the maximum length of a line segment goes to infinity.
Meant to say
>as the number of line segments goes to infinity and the maximum length of a line segment goes to zero.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 17 Dec 2019 20:36:27 No.11233958 Report

Quoted By:

>>11233211
Does "narcissism" mean anything to you?

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 17 Dec 2019 20:42:11 No.11233975 Report

Quoted By:

>>11229651
I would be surprised if the arclength formula doesn't rely on pi to derive it.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 17 Dec 2019 20:42:47 No.11233978 Report

Quoted By:

>>11229244
measure the circumference of a circle, divide it by the diameter, and voila you get pi. Somebody a couple thousand years ago did this a couple of times, saw a pattern, and probably decided to test it out further wth bigger/smaller circles and it worked for every circle. so they called that constant ratio pi

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 17 Dec 2019 20:58:11 No.11234014 Report

Quoted By:

>>11229149
This makes you angry?

What if I told you that mathematicians are trying to prove that you can find any set of numbers in pi?

Think of a number. Yes, any number. There's a very high chance it will be in pi.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 18 Dec 2019 01:54:16 No.11234564 Report

Quoted By:

>>11229192
Stage 1. You understand this
Stage 2. You then understand that a polygon is never a circle.
Stage 3. Then you understand that a circle doesn't exist.

You are still in the mud, you fuck nugget, you not even off the ground let alone being in orbit.

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