/sci/ - Science & Math » Thread #11205277

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CS is a joke

Anonymous Fri 06 Dec 22:01:17 2019 No.11205277 View Reply Original Report

Quoted By: >>11205295 >>11205393 >>11205398 >>11205587 >>11208969 >>11210690 >>11211807 >>11213290 >>11213298 >>11213993 >>11215029 >>11215652 >>11215862 >>11217375 >>11217857 >>11218446 >>11219388

>be brainlet /vg/ loser
>learned to code using game engines
>want to do some AI stuff on tensorflow
>realize I may need advanced PHD CS degree
>scared as fuck of math
>start to watch the youtube conferences
>most of the time is literal import python libraries and do five lines of pytorch and tensorflow, free.ai libraries
>tfw people get paid 500k to do this

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 06 Dec 2019 22:04:28 No.11205290 Report

Quoted By:

based. Keep dabbing on 'them

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 06 Dec 2019 22:06:11 No.11205295 Report

Quoted By: >>11205587 >>11216727

>>11205277
You seem to be confused. "AI" stuff has nothing to do with CS (let wlone "PHD CS"), it's basically stats, so undergraduate stats course (pure math level) or graduate stats course (applied level) will allow you to understand whatever it is you are struggling with. Abd basic linear algebra.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 06 Dec 2019 22:41:30 No.11205393 Report

Quoted By: >>11207763 >>11215594

>>11205277
Look up Andrew Ng's machine learning course on coursera. It's free and only requires basic calculus background (barely even that, you can learn along the way). You learn to implement ML algorithms from scratch in matlab, no importing bullshit.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 06 Dec 2019 22:45:01 No.11205398 Report

Quoted By: >>11205594

>>11205277
If you aren't trolling, and are actually a kid or something. I hope you realize that what a good CS researcher in the field you are talking about does is develop techniques, protocols, and algorithms. They then test them out, and publish their findings, then someone implements those findings by writing a python library for them if they are good.

The next step in your learning journey would be opening up the source of those python libraries you are using, and seeing how they are implemented. You will quickly see that there is a lot you probably won't understand, but stick at it!

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 07 Dec 2019 00:37:57 No.11205587 Report

Quoted By: >>11216727

>>11205277
YouTube videos on AI are all memes. If you read actual theory papers from someone like arora (ie someone not just memeing random experimental papers in ML) then it’s clear that it’s hard lol
>>11205295
AI theory is pretty close to computational theory, but I’d agree that the fields are diverging in ML as the relationship is only as far as numerical optimization methods when it comes to mainstream learning techniques

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 07 Dec 2019 00:39:28 No.11205594 Report

Quoted By: >>11205611

>>11205398
A good CS researcher isn’t a software developer typically. The research is done on blackboards, with simulacra at most if it’s applied research. People mistake software dev for CS

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 07 Dec 2019 00:45:15 No.11205611 Report

Quoted By: >>11216727

>>11205594
You didn't read my post then clearly, as we aren't in disagreement. I said,
>then someone implements those findings by writing a python library for them if they are good.
That someone is often not the researcher. When I want a to use a library of Bellman-Ford algorithm I don't think anyone labours under the delusion that Ford bothered to write the library I'm using. Some rando took his research and wrote the library, and it is probably better that way in all honesty. I want my Fords and Bellmans to be using their big brains to formulate new concepts and algorithms, I don't want them to waste their intellectual capacity maintaining a bunch of python library implementations of their ideas. Any old retarded schmuck can do that, and that is how it should be. Codemonkeys should know their place, and researchers should know theirs. In fact if I see a researcher had enough time to implement their algorithm, I know that they are probably an idiot if they have that much time on their hands.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 07 Dec 2019 18:32:02 No.11207424 Report

Quoted By: >>11207747 >>11208552 >>11209963 >>11210291

What's the rigorous way to learn A.I.? All my friends have no interest on the theory, and are pressuring me to just learn Python libraries. Honestly, no one here is interested in the theory, our damned Department Head has a PhD in I.T. from a less prestigious university.

Anonymous

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Anonymous Sat 07 Dec 2019 21:24:01 No.11207747 Report

Quoted By: >>11208681

>>11207424
Just use this book, it is the gold standard for Introductory AI, I just flipped through my copy, you won't find anything has changed much since it was written. The foundational material it covers is all still relevant, even if the methods it mentions have been expanded upon by more recent research. The original example code that comes with the book is all in Lisp, but they posted updated examples online of the same algorithms all in Java for normies. It is pretty much the gold standard.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 07 Dec 2019 21:30:03 No.11207763 Report

Quoted By:

>>11205393
not OP, but thanks, I'm gonna check that shit out during the break.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 08 Dec 2019 04:09:26 No.11208552 Report

Quoted By: >>11208681

>>11207424
A PhD in IT? Isn't IT like, a trade school field or does it mean something else at other schools.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 08 Dec 2019 05:20:55 No.11208681 Report

Quoted By: >>11208802 >>11213764

>>11207747
Would I be able to read research papers after I've gone through it? And be able to create some product for memebucks.

>>11208552
Well, it's different here in the Philippines. IT is much more popular compared to CS, so all unis here are jumping on the bandwagon.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 08 Dec 2019 06:30:42 No.11208802 Report

Quoted By:

>>11208681
You will have enough background after reading the book I posted to understand the gist of 70% of what is going on in the field, yeah.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 08 Dec 2019 07:47:51 No.11208969 Report

Quoted By:

>>11205277
>AI
You don't mean AI. You probably mean deep learning.

El Arcón

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El Arcón Sun 08 Dec 2019 07:52:05 No.11208976 Report

Quoted By: >>11217289

Losing your immortal soul to eternal damnation is no joke. That's what will happen to everyone who was spying on me if they are still alive by the time I have the opportunity to put them into that. One and all, however many millions of them there may be: they will be the proof that the fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 08 Dec 2019 17:25:14 No.11209963 Report

Quoted By:

>>11207424
Elements of Statistical Learning, you can find the updated free copy online on the author's webpage

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 08 Dec 2019 19:55:47 No.11210291 Report

Quoted By: >>11210295

>>11207424
There are good books out there, but you’ll need a heavy dose of analysis and statistics to get into the meat of the rigor

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 08 Dec 2019 19:57:08 No.11210295 Report

Quoted By: >>11210314

>>11210291
>a heavy dose of analysis
lol

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 08 Dec 2019 20:05:55 No.11210314 Report

Quoted By:

>>11210295
brainlet

Anonymous

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Anonymous Sun 08 Dec 2019 20:09:07 No.11210320 Report

Quoted By: >>11211470 >>11211721 >>11215044

It's true that most CS majors are autist spazmoids.

But the real question is this: what the fuck is up with math majors? Every single math major I've seen is a total normie - it's surreal.

Anonymous

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Anonymous Sun 08 Dec 2019 22:56:59 No.11210690 Report

Quoted By: >>11210692

>>11205277
dude you are wrong and a noob. You should keep pursing it man! its amazingly fun

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 08 Dec 2019 22:58:24 No.11210692 Report

Quoted By:

>>11210690
*pursuing.
I suck at spelling

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 09 Dec 2019 04:38:22 No.11211470 Report

Quoted By:

>>11210320
whoa susu you must know no INDUSTRIAL ENGINEERS then, god i hate this career, just studying it for the job i guess, but probably will switch to pure economy this semester.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 09 Dec 2019 07:16:54 No.11211721 Report

Quoted By:

>>11210320
I can confirm this. I thought the Math Majors were autistic, but turns out they're a bunch of normalfags. It was good hanging out with them though.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 09 Dec 2019 07:55:30 No.11211807 Report

Quoted By:

>>11205277
The people making 500k program the tools that you are using in Python. Obviously machine learning is basically just advanced data fitting, and thus mostly consists of feeding an algorithm training data and then using that on testing data to validate the model.

However, it's also a bit of an art form, and if you want to get the best possible results out of existing tools (or be capable of modifying your tools to work for a specific application), an understanding of how it actually works internally is useful. There are also pitfalls if you aren't aware of how you're actually validating your models, over-fitting being the most common and egregious.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 09 Dec 2019 11:35:18 No.11212130 Report

Quoted By: >>11213762

Yes but what is AI and why is it even a thing

Serious question

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 09 Dec 2019 21:53:22 No.11213249 Report

Quoted By: >>11213762

Is Artificial Intelligence worth studying in university ? I'm 20 now, and not sure if this is a meme degree or not. Seems like it is, but maybe im being autistic

https://bachelors.vu.amsterdam/en/degree-programmes/artificial-intelligence/index.aspx

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 09 Dec 2019 22:09:02 No.11213290 Report

Quoted By:

>>11205277
Nah bro, prove the PCP theorem and solve out all problems in arora-Barak chapters 10 onward, and tell me CS is a joke

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 09 Dec 2019 22:12:03 No.11213298 Report

Quoted By: >>11213371 >>11213386

>>11205277
>most of the time is literal import python libraries and do five lines of pytorch and tensorflow, free.ai libraries

Don't you think that actual CS students created those libraries? Do you think CS students are even allowed to use those libraries when learning about the topics? Do you realize that you are a self taught code monkey that will never be paid shit and are eternally jealous of people who actually studied engineering?

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 09 Dec 2019 22:26:21 No.11213337 Report

Quoted By: >>11213770

Hey bros, I'm in the same situation. I have a degree totally unrelated to CS but I'm interesting in learning to code. I'm thinking javascript. Is it worth in the long term? Also, how are the salaries and the demand?
I'm also scared of math so C++ and other shit is out of question

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 09 Dec 2019 22:41:19 No.11213371 Report

Quoted By:

>>11213298

hahahaha
holy shit you have to arrive to the real world
you use whatever works, and if you can get by with importing only stuff other people wrote, you will get by just fine

you'll never be the top coder, leader, or in any faculty that anybody who knwos how to actualyl code will have to take your orders, but just knowing how to import stuff will get you VERY VERY far

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 09 Dec 2019 22:46:28 No.11213386 Report

Quoted By:

>>11213298
Steve Jobs wasn't a big programmer either yet he made billions. You nerds need to realize that coding skills are not everything you need to be successful and make money.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 10 Dec 2019 01:21:49 No.11213762 Report

Quoted By:

>>11212130
AI refers to a really wide field, but most people use it to refer to Machine Learning, which is its most popular subset. The simplest accurate description is that it's the study of algorithms that operate on patterns in data that allow the machine/agents to perform a task without being given instructions on how to proceed. That field throws statistical models, numerical analysis methods, algebra, and analysis (well, this depends on how comfortable you are with the theoretical portion of ML - you wouldn't see this until later) at some classic computational problems. There's a good amount of legitimate and novel research going on in the field, but it's usually buried underneath a lot of garbage. There's the applied side, which is largely experimental, and there's the theoretical side, which is as it sounds. The general field of AI refers to the study and associated techniques related to natural language processing, vision processing, intelligent/autonomous control in robotics, decision and scheduling systems, genetic algorithms, etc.
>>11213249
Study general computer science with a focus on artificial intelligence. I highly recommend at least minoring in math. Go for the hard classes for electives, like advanced architecture, operating system design, advanced algorithms, complexity theory, graphics processing, and of course ML/AI courses.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 10 Dec 2019 01:23:58 No.11213764 Report

Quoted By:

>>11208681
Based philippines anon. I will put in a good word for you with the glowniggers.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 10 Dec 2019 01:25:38 No.11213770 Report

Quoted By:

>>11213337
>I have a degree totally unrelated to CS but I'm interesting in learning to code.
CS and coding are two different things entirely - everyone can learn how to write code for themselves.
>I'm thinking javascript
why lol, it's infuriatingly bad
>Is it worth in the long term? Also, how are the salaries and the demand?
you do realize that your worth as a developer is not based on knowledge of any one language, but being able to learn what you need on the spot, right? You should know some languages, but knowing how to read isn't the same as being able to write great classic novels.
>I'm also scared of math so C++ and other shit is out of question
A piece of code, from your perspective as a developer, is only as mathematical as you make it to be. You can write dogshit in any language. You can also write incredibly sophistical, mathematically precise code towards a solution in the language of your choice. What about C++ strikes you as "mathematical?"

Anonymous

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Anonymous Tue 10 Dec 2019 02:47:27 No.11213993 Report

Quoted By: >>11214015 >>11214118 >>11214128 >>11215147 >>11216735

>>11205277
I began as a CS major but I couldn't stand all of the autistic spergs in my class. Switched to CmpE and almost done with my master's in computer architecture. So much happier with the material and employers in my area really want people that know both software and hardware. Already have 4 offers lined up when I graduate in March.

Meanwhile the CS majors are desperate to get a basic internship doing something menial like full-stack web development and most of them have no offers because there is such an abundance of them. They are also scared of microprocessors, lol.

So glad I switched.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 10 Dec 2019 02:59:27 No.11214015 Report

Quoted By: >>11214128

>>11213993
You do realize how dumb this post is, right? You also realize not that many people want to be computer scientist or do any form of applied mathematics for a living, right?

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 10 Dec 2019 03:54:56 No.11214118 Report

Quoted By: >>11215907

>>11213993
>scared of microprocessors
>scared of FPGAs
Your average CS researcher in architecture, parallelization, and OS is more than fine with these. The same goes for any undergrad who likes systems. I know this is bait, but CS != “software”
Hell, the most valuable skill you get from CS has little to do with code

Anonymous

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Anonymous Tue 10 Dec 2019 03:58:28 No.11214128 Report

Quoted By:

>>11213993
Absolutely based

>>11214015
t. Seething CS autismo

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 10 Dec 2019 16:04:55 No.11215029 Report

Quoted By:

>>11205277
CS =/= Coding =/= Programming =/= Software Engineering and anyone who actually has a computer science degree will tell you the same thing you shit eating troglodyte

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 10 Dec 2019 16:17:26 No.11215044 Report

Quoted By: >>11215153

>>11210320
I'm a CS major at heart but math major in reality, can kinda confirm. It sucks because I don't get any real world skills for a job but also don't have the normie social skills to still get a job despite being a worthless math major. I guess starbucks for the rest of my life it is.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 10 Dec 2019 17:30:30 No.11215147 Report

Quoted By:

>>11213993
If both your CS and your CmpE degrees gave you nothing but "software" and "hardware" knowledge repsectively, then both programs have failed you. These are two distinct studies that are supposed to teach you to think in a certain way about different tools / methods. If all you got were a bunch of funfacts and tricks to manipulate -ware, then you didn't learn much.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 10 Dec 2019 17:33:19 No.11215153 Report

Quoted By:

>>11215044
...did you not just double major? I did and it did nothing but good for me. Also, you do know there are many avenues to employment postgrad in math, right? I wanted to do TCS, which is only bolstered by math.
Also never skimp out on traditional / continuous math for CS. You'd be surprised at the research in CS that starts at topology, types, algebra, analysis, geometry, etc. It really is just another small math department studying a subset of problems under a grant signed "for CS research" instead of "for math research"

Anonymous

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Anonymous Tue 10 Dec 2019 20:48:13 No.11215594 Report

Quoted By:

>>11205393
>matlab

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 10 Dec 2019 21:13:12 No.11215652 Report

Quoted By:

>>11205277
The real work is coming up with the model, obviously implementing it with libraries is easy

Anonymous

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Anonymous Tue 10 Dec 2019 22:56:23 No.11215862 Report

Quoted By: >>11215916 >>11217017

>>11205277
>Get force tested for ADD back in highschool cause parents know I'm fucking retarded and fail basic mafs
>Part of the test is an IQ score
>Shink comes back and slams me with 90
>Feelsbrainletman
>Says I have a bad case of zoomer-itis
>Don't take the pills cause they make me depressed
>Try to study comp sci in college
>Fail 2/5 intro classes cause they are too hard
>Drop into statistics cause it's easier
>Sperg my way into a few internships by reading how to crack the coding interview
>Graduate with 7 failed classes and just under a 3.0
>Just signed with a big tech company with 6 figure salary and noodle caboodle and toaster strudel amount of sigining bonus and stonks

Computer Science Is A Fucking Joke

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 10 Dec 2019 23:16:30 No.11215907 Report

Quoted By:

>>11214118
honestly, i'm sure most cs undergrads have no idea about hardware, simply because they don't talk about it at all in classes.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 10 Dec 2019 23:18:33 No.11215916 Report

Quoted By: >>11215971

>>11215862
i got 3.9 average with math/cs double majer and i make 60000 dollars a year with no bonus or stonks lol

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 10 Dec 2019 23:47:33 No.11215971 Report

Quoted By: >>11216735

>>11215916
Lol I bet you either:
1) cant jive with normies and Chads so behavioral is hard
2) Didn't study how to take the CS interviews

Either way you can still dig yourself out of the hole by fixing one or two of the above and interviewing elsewhere

Anonymous

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Anonymous Wed 11 Dec 2019 05:15:20 No.11216643 Report

Quoted By: >>11216658 >>11216663 >>11216665

alright fags, redpill me on the fields of CS and which one is best

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 11 Dec 2019 05:18:54 No.11216658 Report

Quoted By:

>>11216643
which ever one you like
Purchase the Art of Programming.
Every single chapter, there are unsolved problems in CS in the exercises.
See you in 10 years.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 11 Dec 2019 05:22:48 No.11216663 Report

Quoted By: >>11220863

>>11216643
whichever job is remote so you can just work from home. Its the only reason I majored in CS. I make 80k a year and I havent left my house since I graduated.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 11 Dec 2019 05:23:19 No.11216665 Report

Quoted By:

>>11216643
>which is best
to not be born at all or to die as soon as possible

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 11 Dec 2019 06:12:37 No.11216727 Report

Quoted By:

>>11205587
Yes it depends what you want to do. If you make certain models and want to see some human interaction component and make a paper on that, chances are pretty high you can publish it to some mid (or even high if relevant) tier journal.

>>11205295
AI is broader than just stats. That's machine learning and machine learning is a part of it. E.g expert systems don't really fall under stats but are considered a form of AI by some.

>>11205611
> Any old retarded schmuck can do that, and that is how it should be

No. They can't. You actually need to understand a paper very well if you want to make a library based on some of the concepts discussed. This can be a lot harder than you think since publication journals have a limit of pages, detail sometimes get omitted (maybe unintentionally, maybe intentionally) and you would get a different implementation than what the researcher wanted. Or the idea of the researcher does not have a solid ground in reality and doesn't line up.

> n fact if I see a researcher had enough time to implement their algorithm, I know that they are probably an idiot if they have that much time on their hands.

No code = no proof. How do you expect me to just accept an idea or a description of some outcome when there is no real easy to use showcase of those outcomes? Sure if it's just math, but then it should fall under math. And even then you probably want to show simulations etc. Idk how you can argue for no code when it comes to AI ffs the whole field is plagued by exaggerated algorithm performance, exaggerated outcomes on research results and so on since datasets and code can be withheld with the bs argument ''our paper defines very well which steps to take".

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 11 Dec 2019 06:18:12 No.11216735 Report

Quoted By:

>>11215971
> cant jive with normies and Chads

You're probably doing something very wrong or very right when you're encountering those types. However if you're in CS and meeting those types and have a low salary you're definitely doing something wrong lol.

>>11213993
> autistic spergs
> master
> struggling to get basic internship

Nice b8 some fell for it.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 11 Dec 2019 10:27:54 No.11217017 Report

Quoted By: >>11217863

>>11215862
I like this new pasta, just the right amount of butthurt you'd expect from a math major.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 11 Dec 2019 14:24:56 No.11217289 Report

Quoted By:

>>11208976

Roko's brainlet

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 11 Dec 2019 15:43:00 No.11217375 Report

Quoted By: >>11217863

>>11205277
cern is also a joke. nasa is also a joke. computers are a joke. life is a joke. is anybody laughing?

Anonymous

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Anonymous Wed 11 Dec 2019 19:09:55 No.11217857 Report

Quoted By:

>>11205277
i think cs is badass.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 11 Dec 2019 19:12:31 No.11217863 Report

Quoted By:

>>11217375
me. i laugh at cstards on /sci/ almost every single day
>>11217017
imagine your only defense against your own stupidity being the mortgaging of the economic stability of the developed world with overgrown tech stocks inflating software monkey salaries

Anonymous

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Anonymous Wed 11 Dec 2019 23:15:02 No.11218446 Report

Quoted By: >>11219444

>>11205277
this is now a lisp thread

https://emacs.stackexchange.com/questions/37220/highlight-labels-flet-macrolet-definitions-in-lisp-mode

Anonymous

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Anonymous Thu 12 Dec 2019 05:25:19 No.11219388 Report

Quoted By:

>>11205277
Training models is really only a small part. Most of the work is split between building pic related and working on algorithm design. Particularly when you need to build models for data you don't have a cut and paste template for.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 12 Dec 2019 05:53:43 No.11219444 Report

Quoted By: >>11219460 >>11220812

>>11218446
I wish math dropped its retarded notation and expressed everything as bautiful Lisp code.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 12 Dec 2019 06:00:38 No.11219460 Report

Quoted By:

>>11219444
With their fucking idiotic uncountable tight right parens? Sure shit anon

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 12 Dec 2019 20:26:32 No.11220812 Report

Quoted By: >>11220841

>>11219444
>math dropped its retarded notation
you do know that CS papers are all done "in math notation" right? TCS is literally nothing but math.

El Arcón

El Arcón Thu 12 Dec 2019 20:44:44 No.11220841 Report

Quoted By: >>11220850

>>11220812
Absolutely. It was because I read Codd's 10/10 paper
>https://www.seas.upenn.edu/~zives/03f/cis550/codd.pdf
that I was so good in my SQL stint.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 12 Dec 2019 20:49:10 No.11220850 Report

Quoted By:

>>11220841
I was thinking more
http://cs.brown.edu/~mph/HerlihyS99/p858-herlihy.pdf

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 12 Dec 2019 21:01:12 No.11220863 Report

Quoted By:

>>11216663
web?

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