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Brine vs Water Quench

Anonymous Tue 19 Nov 01:25:42 2019 No.11158984 View Reply Original Report

Quoted By: >>11159005 >>11159049 >>11159096 >>11159107 >>11159145 >>11159153 >>11159162 >>11159697 >>11159773 >>11160664

Can anyone tell me why water quenching is producing a greater hardness than brine quenching. I though brine was suppose to be harder. I'm using 1045 steel. Been googling for hours but haven't found an answer.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 19 Nov 2019 01:41:09 No.11159005 Report

Quoted By: >>11159012

>>11158984
Harder by what measure? Is it possible there is a layer of salt on the surface of the steel interfering with measurement?

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 19 Nov 2019 01:43:12 No.11159012 Report

Quoted By: >>11159020

>>11159005
Thank you for your response. I'm using Rockwell Hardness. I sanded the piece first so the surface should be clear...

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 19 Nov 2019 01:44:23 No.11159017 Report

Quoted By: >>11159101

Probably the difference in boiling point

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 19 Nov 2019 01:44:56 No.11159020 Report

Quoted By: >>11159034

>>11159012
Hmm, that's really interesting. I am assuming you were careful to make sure steel, water temp, and quench time was consistent between distilled and brine. What's the percent difference in hardness?

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 19 Nov 2019 01:45:36 No.11159027 Report

Quoted By: >>11159039

Somehow i got around 28c for brine and 43c for water????

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 19 Nov 2019 01:48:37 No.11159034 Report

Quoted By:

>>11159020
steel was all 1045 from same batch. same oven same temp, and quench time or very close..would it be so sensitive to minor differences to have such a large difference in hardness?

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 19 Nov 2019 01:49:23 No.11159039 Report

Quoted By: >>11159044

>>11159027
Well theres ya problem

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 19 Nov 2019 01:49:53 No.11159040 Report

Quoted By:

maybe somehow i screwed up but i dont think i did.... so i was searching to see if theres a mechanism to reduce the hardening effect of brine

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 19 Nov 2019 01:50:58 No.11159044 Report

Quoted By: >>11159057

>>11159039
for hardness not temperature of solution

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 19 Nov 2019 01:52:02 No.11159049 Report

Quoted By: >>11159057 >>11159070

>>11158984
The decreased thermal conductivity of brine vs water could increase the time that the steel takes to cool down, so reduce the final hardness.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 19 Nov 2019 01:54:38 No.11159057 Report

Quoted By:

>>11159044
oh. maybe something like this then >>11159049

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 19 Nov 2019 01:58:04 No.11159070 Report

Quoted By: >>11159081

>>11159049
everything i read says brine has a higher thermal conductivity because it forms less of an air pocket...but maybe the fact that i agitate the samples negates this!?

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 19 Nov 2019 02:06:57 No.11159081 Report

Quoted By: >>11159083 >>11159089

>>11159070
Good point, I didn't take into account the evaporation. I would definitively test it out without agitation.

If brine is still better, are you sure that all the other steps are exactly the same? Is the difference between the two steels statistically significant?

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 19 Nov 2019 02:08:00 No.11159083 Report

Quoted By:

>>11159081
Maybe using less or more salt?

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 19 Nov 2019 02:11:38 No.11159089 Report

Quoted By:

>>11159081
testing without agitation is a good idea, this sounds like the best theory, it is quite a large difference i got more than once

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 19 Nov 2019 02:14:28 No.11159096 Report

Quoted By: >>11159112

>>11158984
You should be getting greater hardness from the brine, as it's a faster quench. Something in your processing or testing is wrong.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 19 Nov 2019 02:17:31 No.11159101 Report

Quoted By:

>>11159017
I was going to suggest this

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 19 Nov 2019 02:20:06 No.11159107 Report

Quoted By:

>>11158984
QUAD DAMAGE

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 19 Nov 2019 02:26:53 No.11159112 Report

Quoted By: >>11159122

>>11159096
your right i should get greater hardness from brine
i could have an error in process/testing but i did it more than once carefully so i was wondering if there could be another reason.
im thinking agitating/moving the sample during quenching must reduce the effectiveness of brine quenching by negating the benefits of higher boiling temperature/less air pockets/insulation allowing the lower latent heat compared to water to reduce its effectiveness.
thanks everyone for the input.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 19 Nov 2019 02:32:23 No.11159122 Report

Quoted By:

>>11159112
Good luck in your experimenting.

Anonymous

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Anonymous Tue 19 Nov 2019 02:47:22 No.11159145 Report

Quoted By: >>11159161 >>11159162 >>11159378

>>11158984
>I though brine was suppose to be harder

Why? Why in the fuck did you come to that conclusion? Do you know what brine is? Did you know that if you pour boiling brine onto a goldfish it kills the fish and leaves you with some real gold?

I'd usually recommend that you just kill yourself but I'll be nice and wait for you to trip and get strangled by the cords on your window blinds as you go to google and search for the fundamentals of the heat treating of steel

Please do that and stop saying retarded things.

Thanks

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 19 Nov 2019 02:51:04 No.11159153 Report

Quoted By: >>11159167

>>11158984
Brine boils at higher temperatures and has a longer chance to quench but also normalize metal. Could this be the reason? /diy/ would totally know this.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 19 Nov 2019 02:53:02 No.11159161 Report

Quoted By:

>>11159145
Do you need to talk about something Anon? I can make you some cookies.

Anonymous

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Anonymous Tue 19 Nov 2019 02:53:09 No.11159162 Report

Quoted By: >>11159181 >>11159218

>>11159145
>>11158984

I'll be the first to say I was hasty in posting that reply. At the time I didn't think anyone would seriously think quenching in brine was something that would actually work. A quick google has shown me there are lots of knife enthusiasts on alchemy forums who believe dipping your hot knife in piss will have any affect on the crystalline structure of the knife itself; be that the blade's edge or body, it doesn't matter.

I'm uncomfortable about the fact I landed on the word 'alchemy' today.

Anonymous

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Anonymous Tue 19 Nov 2019 02:54:43 No.11159167 Report

Quoted By: >>11159191

>>11159153
>/diy/ would totally know this

A textbook on metallurgy will know this. /diy/ would totally know /fuck all/

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 19 Nov 2019 02:57:57 No.11159181 Report

Quoted By: >>11159194

>>11159162
Hocus pocus. More like the amonia or pissy stuff in general and a bark up the wrong tree. Case hardened nitride was discovered by pissed off blacksmiths throwing their fuckups into piles of horse shit.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 19 Nov 2019 03:00:55 No.11159191 Report

Quoted By:

>>11159167
Lot of smiths there. I have read textbooks on metallurgy and dont know much. Don't be so afraid of those with experience. I read don quixote and didn't know what the fuck was going on.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 19 Nov 2019 03:02:27 No.11159194 Report

Quoted By:

>>11159181
>Case hardened nitride was discovered by pissed off blacksmiths throwing their fuckups into piles of horse shit.

This is a fact that I like.

I'm 99.9% certain that one of the technicians was pissing in the quench tank at our college. Every time you cooled a bit of steel down you got a very strong smell of boiled rancid piss.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 19 Nov 2019 03:11:45 No.11159218 Report

Quoted By:

>>11159162
Why? It's only another word for 'light work'

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 19 Nov 2019 03:20:11 No.11159236 Report

Quoted By: >>11159384

It's been a while but iirc brine quenching has a faster rate of cooling compared to water

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 19 Nov 2019 04:13:14 No.11159378 Report

Quoted By:

>>11159145
Kek

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 19 Nov 2019 04:15:40 No.11159384 Report

Quoted By: >>11159542

>>11159236
correct
which makes it harder and more brittle

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 19 Nov 2019 05:31:08 No.11159542 Report

Quoted By:

>>11159384
You're correct except for thinking Anon is correct.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 19 Nov 2019 07:00:21 No.11159697 Report

Quoted By:

>>11158984
Try a non-flammable oil

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 19 Nov 2019 07:56:12 No.11159773 Report

Quoted By: >>11160350

>>11158984
It has nothing to do with boiling point as some anons suggested.
It's thermal conductivity.
What is different in differently hardened steels is crystal structure, the size of crystals, the uniformity, dislocations, shape, etc.
The thermal gradient changes how
they growth.
But it all also depends on composition, temperature, agitation, etc.

It's more of an alchemy than a science desu.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 19 Nov 2019 15:13:27 No.11160350 Report

Quoted By:

>>11159773
Tomato tomato motherfucker. You are saying a convoluted version of what has been said.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 19 Nov 2019 17:24:32 No.11160664 Report

Quoted By:

>>11158984
Try >>>/diy/ Also, use oil quenching at 1575F for 1045 steel, though it depends on what you are doing really. Just don't go below 700F.

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