/sci/ - Science & Math » Thread #11111543

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Anonymous Sat 02 Nov 05:05:08 2019 No.11111543 View Reply Original Report

Quoted By: >>11111779 >>11111824 >>11114104 >>11114578 >>11114754 >>11114846

>well aliens must have manipulator limbs so that's not like they can look like litteraly anything
>so they must be humanoid and at most having a weird head on a human body
Why do people unironically think this? a big terrestial crab with "hands" could be just as good for example

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 02 Nov 2019 06:43:07 No.11111677 Report

Quoted By:

Depends on who we're talking about. I think it's usually for reasons other than genuinely believing aliens *should* be humanoid.

If it's science fiction, especially TV or movies that involve depicting them visually, humanoid aliens are both easier to make and easier to tell stories with. A story about starfish aliens necessarily spends all its time just trying to get an understanding of them, and there's little room left for any other kind of story.

If it's about random alien abduction nutjobs, they're borrowing from their own experiences to form their conception of aliens. Aliens are a kind of person, and their conception of people is used as a starting point. They also borrow from fiction, which is usually humanoid for the separate reasons mentioned.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 02 Nov 2019 09:02:08 No.11111779 Report

Quoted By: >>11112032

>>11111543
It makes sense that an alien species who developed tools and technology would be somewhat humanoids phenotypically.

Birds, bees and bats are different flying species but their design is convergent in many ways: head, eyes and mouth on the front, wings on the anterior flank, etc...

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 02 Nov 2019 09:53:24 No.11111824 Report

Quoted By: >>11111849

>>11111543

In science fiction they have to make them like that for cheapness and relatability reasons, so unless they want to do the "cthulhu" theme like the thing, you will have apes in colors

In more realistic terms this idea is supported when you want an alien civilization mainly because for civilization to happen there are necessary steps:

>Tools, that means the ability to manipulate them
>Communication
>Organization(not necessarily hierarchies but no one really knows what a hive mind would look like)
>Intelligence, which is a given

With all of those you can start building a civilization, wether that civilization is spaceworthy or not depends on the environment and the fitness of the species(a species in a 10G gravity well will probably be never able to leave it's planet), and to achieve those we already know the most adequate mechanisms since they are not contingent but

>To manipulate tools, you need precision, aka digits
>For intelligence, you require a well developed information processing tissue which must be next to it's sensory organs and the sensory organs must be in an advantageous position, aka, the head
>For communication intelligence is a given, but the means of communication must allow great flexibility and sound is quite fast and allows many variations, maybe light also serves
>Organization must derive from intelligence and communication, and if there is heterogeneity hierarchies or an understanding of hierarchies are also a given.

But, every argument made in this regard is not arguments in favour of homology, but a description of our own mechanisms and paths to civilization, it makes sense to us but we have to admit that it's a problem of knowledge: We can't know if there are other ways simply because we haven't registered them and all speculation derives from our present understanding, which is adapted to our 1G, oxygen, carbon, water life around a G2V star.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 02 Nov 2019 10:18:38 No.11111849 Report

Quoted By:

>>11111824
There are other conclusions we can probably deduce. Extra limbs are taxing to possess, taking up a portion of cranial capacity and calories, and aren't likely to be favored. The Cambrian Explosion featured bilateral and trilateral body plans, but only bilateral body plans survived that gauntlet, so it's not likely that we'll see other symmetries elsewhere. The head makes a lot of sense as a sensory package with short neural pathways to the primary components of the central nervous system, but this can potentially be replaced with other arrangements, at the cost of lag time between the sensory organs and the brain. All in all, our body plan has a lot going for it as a technology wielding species, and it would not surprise me to see others have convergent body plans.

Anonymous

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Anonymous Sat 02 Nov 2019 12:31:21 No.11112032 Report

Quoted By: >>11112391 >>11114562 >>11114629

>>11111779
>It makes sense
Not at all.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 02 Nov 2019 16:23:28 No.11112391 Report

Quoted By: >>11112926

>>11112032

Tentacles aren't precise enough to be used as tool manipulators.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 02 Nov 2019 21:24:35 No.11112926 Report

Quoted By:

>>11112391
>look at average mammal forelimbs
Mammal forelimbs and paws are not precise enough to be used as tool manipulators, surely nothing similar could ever evolve into good tool manipulators.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 03 Nov 2019 11:40:42 No.11114104 Report

Quoted By:

>>11111543
They look like humans from the future who evolved for space travel

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 03 Nov 2019 16:03:32 No.11114562 Report

Quoted By:

>>11112032
It does brainlet, if radically different species genetically evolve independently and end up with conceptually close solutions to an issue that means there is a common logic behind the optimization.
In short: it makes sense.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 03 Nov 2019 16:14:38 No.11114578 Report

Quoted By:

>>11111543
It's called the anthropomorphic paradox.
The most alien thing you can think of is still informed by your experiences and knowledge of earth biology.
You can make some basic assumptions about an advanced technological life from another planet. They have to have some way to manipulate their environment with enough precision to build things. They'd need to be able to communicate or time bind information among themselves. They would need some way to gather information about their environment.
Final body form could be wide fucking open depending on what the alien tree of life looks like, and what body plans went on to be dominant.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 03 Nov 2019 16:47:14 No.11114629 Report

Quoted By:

>>11112032
There's a reason dolphins haven't evolved beyond swimming around and eating fish as they go. The other anons are right. Tentacle aliens could exist, but short of them manipulating their environment with some weird form of EMR or anti gravity, there is no way they could become civilized or engage in space travel. Now, tentacles instead of legs or some foreign method of locomotion is feasible. You could imagine the brain is even within the body not on top. But some form of arms with digits that can be rigid and flexible when needed is likely necessary. Sure aliens could look like anything, but we are talking about space-faring ones of advanced intelligence. This requires certain things.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 03 Nov 2019 17:54:36 No.11114754 Report

Quoted By:

>>11111543
>Why do people unironically think this?
because for low budget TV shows, it's still much cheaper to paint some of the actors blue than having to bother with some kind of muppet alien with 12 arms and 4 anuses

Anonymous

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Anonymous Sun 03 Nov 2019 18:35:03 No.11114846 Report

Quoted By:

>>11111543
Everyone in this thread is abysmally retarded except for the people posting about convergent evolution:
If life on another planet follows similar principles of what we know about earth organisms, then there will probably be recognizable patterns popping up.
Someone mentioned dolphins: look at dolphins, fish, and ichthyosaurs. All from different animal groups (mammal, fish, reptile) but all CONVERGED upon the same general characteristics because that is what is efficient for moving through water.
If a large body of liquid exists on a planet with life, and organisms live in that liquid, they will undoubtedly be shapes that pass through the liquid medium with ease, and this would result in them looking vaguely similar to the aquatic organisms we have.
This example has implications in other areas, and currently we only see octopus and a few primates do the tool shit. Personally, I am hoping aliens look like octopus or invertebrates of some kind. You're also all dumb for not recognizing that aliens are demons, demons are fallen angels, and angels comprise your notion of an archetypal 'dragon' so in short """aliens""" are fallen angelic dragon beings.

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