/sci/ - Science & Math » Thread #10940160

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Is Hydrogen a dead-end technology?

Anonymous Tue 03 Sep 12:34:00 2019 No.10940160 View Reply Original Report

Quoted By: >>10940201 >>10940222 >>10940493 >>10940517 >>10940583 >>10940634 >>10941912 >>10942406 >>10942576

https://youtu.be/yFPnT-DCBVs

Musk thinks it’s a terrible idea for cars but what about things like Aircraft and rockets?

JAXA is developing a hydrogen powered hypersonic jet, could that be a feasible use?

http://www.aero.jaxa.jp/eng/research/frontier/hst/

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 03 Sep 2019 13:02:19 No.10940201 Report

Quoted By:

>>10940160
Hydrogen may have use in long distance trucks but its meh for cars. If you thought batteries were dangerous, wait till you see hydrogen fuelcells.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 03 Sep 2019 13:17:36 No.10940222 Report

Quoted By: >>10940274 >>10940562

>>10940160
Hydrogen fuel cells are pretty useless.
For aircraft hydrogen has higher energy density than the best batteries but the systems that store it and convert it into electricity are so heavy it that when taking those into account it loses any advantages. For cars the weight is less of an issue but then finding hydrogen is the main issue, driving one would be too annoying for anyone to seriously consider it. Regardless, electricity is required to generate the hydrogen in the first place, at that point theres no reason not to just skip the middle man, it could never be used large scale because of the inefficiency of converting electricity to hydrogen and back again.

Only good way of using hydrogen is by burning it, same as rockets, itll always be an excellent option for that.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 03 Sep 2019 13:58:34 No.10940274 Report

Quoted By:

>>10940222
how do you think combustion engines work, retard?

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 03 Sep 2019 14:16:57 No.10940295 Report

Quoted By: >>10940421

>increasingly nervous man who's deeply invested in one technology calls a competing technology shit

who cares

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 03 Sep 2019 15:27:10 No.10940412 Report

Quoted By: >>10940422

completely useless for autos, batteries are better in every way except for initial cost, and even that advantage is rapidly diminishing as economies of scale and better battery designs just keep reducing prices.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 03 Sep 2019 15:31:39 No.10940421 Report

Quoted By:

>>10940295
You'll see!

Musk keeps saying this in regards to competing tech and I just find it funnier and funnier.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 03 Sep 2019 15:31:52 No.10940422 Report

Quoted By: >>10940681

>>10940412
no they aren't, batteries are shit tier

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 03 Sep 2019 15:38:55 No.10940435 Report

Quoted By: >>10940476

Are these "fuel cell" cars using hydrogen engines? Do they generate their own hydrogen from electrolysis? How much battery does that take? Battery tech is still trash and they are garbage on the environment, if u care. Amusing how the same shit was being talked about electric cars 40 years ago.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 03 Sep 2019 16:01:23 No.10940476 Report

Quoted By: >>10940549

>>10940435
They're electric cars that have a fuel cell and a tank of hydrogen instead of batteries.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 03 Sep 2019 16:09:05 No.10940493 Report

Quoted By: >>10940603

>>10940160
Hydrogen is so hard to work with that fucking orbital rocket companies are ditching it in favor of methane. And people want to use hydrogen in cars? Musk is 100% correct here.

Anonymous

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Anonymous Tue 03 Sep 2019 16:22:46 No.10940517 Report

Quoted By: >>10942609

>>10940160
>Musk thinks it’s a terrible idea for cars but what about things like Aircraft and rockets?

It's a terrible idea in general. But from hydrogen you can easily go to safer liquid fuels.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 03 Sep 2019 16:41:03 No.10940542 Report

Quoted By:

The only way hydrogen fuel cell cars make sense is if you forget everything you know about thermodynamics and imagine a magic catalyst that could convert water to hydrogen without any energy input. the whole concept was a pipe dream encouraged by researchers to help them secure funding.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 03 Sep 2019 16:42:39 No.10940549 Report

Quoted By:

>>10940476
actually hybrids like Prius, there is also a battery

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 03 Sep 2019 16:50:57 No.10940562 Report

Quoted By:

>>10940222
>Only good way of using hydrogen is by burning it
Anon, I...

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 03 Sep 2019 16:55:53 No.10940576 Report

Quoted By:

If you could somehow reduce the volume of space occupied by the one electron atom to say, 1/64th the size of the ground state, that sure would be a good fuel. You could pass it through magnetic induction coil to bring the energy up to the ground state, and take advantage of the massive and rapid increase of pressure to propel your rocket.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 03 Sep 2019 16:57:36 No.10940583 Report

Quoted By:

>>10940160
Yes, it's too difficult to handle and store.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 03 Sep 2019 17:05:22 No.10940603 Report

Quoted By: >>10940616 >>10942615

>>10940493
Hydrogen might see a comeback if/when we start using nuclear thermal rockets. For those you want the lightest molecule possible, which is hydrogen.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 03 Sep 2019 17:10:07 No.10940616 Report

Quoted By: >>10940786 >>10942615

>>10940603
Is tbat true or just another manifestation of the hydrogen meme? I would say it is plausible a methane-fuelled NTR may be superior to hydrogen NTR due to density and practicality considerations.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 03 Sep 2019 17:21:20 No.10940634 Report

Quoted By: >>10942717

>>10940160
This is my argument:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f7MzFfuNOtY

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 03 Sep 2019 17:45:53 No.10940681 Report

Quoted By: >>10940741 >>10942778 >>10943169

>>10940422
The fact that right now EV's BTFO comparable ICE's at virtually everything and only continue to improve strongly implies you're fucking retarded. Meanwhile hydrogen vehicles are just ICEs but worse in every way.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 03 Sep 2019 18:21:27 No.10940741 Report

Quoted By: >>10941664

>>10940681
>fact
Opinion.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 03 Sep 2019 18:40:46 No.10940786 Report

Quoted By:

>>10940616
That's a possibility. I don't think there's enough research on NTR's to really know the answer to that yet.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 04 Sep 2019 00:23:15 No.10941664 Report

Quoted By: >>10942682

>>10940741
Vehicle specs are facts not opinions you cuck

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 04 Sep 2019 01:15:53 No.10941770 Report

Quoted By: >>10942572

>Musk thinks it’s a terrible idea for cars of I believe him

So this is the power of IFUCKINGLOVESCIENCE redditors

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 04 Sep 2019 02:06:53 No.10941912 Report

Quoted By:

>>10940160
yes
hydrogen embrittlement fucks anything you try to store it in so you constantly have to replace tanks, hoses, and the engine
additionally, hydrogen is hilariously flammable so if a car gets in an accident, it's straight to the fuck realm for them and any poor motherfucker nearby

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 04 Sep 2019 05:27:34 No.10942406 Report

Quoted By:

>>10940160

Pretty much. You are ultimately better off from a density and cost standpoint to just make synthetic jet fuel.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 04 Sep 2019 06:57:03 No.10942572 Report

Quoted By:

>>10941770
It’s the power of truth more like

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 04 Sep 2019 06:58:51 No.10942576 Report

Quoted By:

>>10940160
they make sense for trains, planes, and trucks which batteries don't make sense for. Elon is a faggot who is still shilling solar.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 04 Sep 2019 07:16:16 No.10942605 Report

Quoted By:

hydrogen is a meme fuel, it doesn't have enough mass density, which means that the energy per volume sucks dick

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 04 Sep 2019 07:17:27 No.10942609 Report

Quoted By:

>>10940517
Challenger was caused by using literal fireworks, not hydrogen

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 04 Sep 2019 07:19:02 No.10942615 Report

Quoted By:

>>10940616
>>10940603
methane NTR has a much better T/W ratio and much smaller tanks, which is important, while still beating the shit out of even hydrogen chemical rockets
it's also much easier to store for long periods

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 04 Sep 2019 08:07:18 No.10942682 Report

Quoted By:

>>10941664
Teslas melt under load on literally any track.
0-60 does not matter in the real world.
Fucking Miatas and BRZs have better lap times.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 04 Sep 2019 08:41:40 No.10942717 Report

Quoted By:

>>10940634
Hydrogen compressed to almost 800 atmospheres, with an electronically controlled valve somewhere between the tank and the fuel cell's elements. Imagine parking all that in an attached garage--or worse still, an aircraft hangar. I'll take the battery-powered model.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 04 Sep 2019 09:17:54 No.10942778 Report

Quoted By:

>>10940681
Ev's are 10k above ice prices.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 04 Sep 2019 09:19:38 No.10942781 Report

Quoted By:

We already have hydrogen production cars so no it's not a meme

Anonymous

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Anonymous Wed 04 Sep 2019 10:34:03 No.10942888 Report

Quoted By: >>10943117

Why are nips so obsessed with hydrogen?

Shouldn't they be the best informed of how fucking devastating fire can be?

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 04 Sep 2019 12:45:59 No.10943117 Report

Quoted By: >>10943173

>>10942888
They are completely unironically preparing to make a hydrogen bomb.

Look it up.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 04 Sep 2019 13:04:33 No.10943160 Report

Quoted By:

Hydrogen has too low density, causes embrittlement, and liquid hydrogen is constantly fighting to go back to being a gas, even as you cool it.
For rockets, its Isp is a meme, because you have to invest so much weight in tanks, and you have to use it right away, long-term storage is too much trouble. It also has a tendency to freeze oxygen, which is crossing-the-streams bad.
Methane is the best balance betwen Isp and storage, with an additional bonus of being liquid at the same temperature as oxygen.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 04 Sep 2019 13:11:20 No.10943169 Report

Quoted By:

>>10940681
>EV's BTFO comparable ICE's at virtually everything
(whisper) except long distance drives (/whisper)

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 04 Sep 2019 13:12:43 No.10943173 Report

Quoted By:

>>10943117
So they're doing the good ol' trick of hiding weapons development under their Department of Energy

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 04 Sep 2019 15:19:17 No.10943375 Report

Quoted By:

Nice timing on this one...
https://hackaday.com/2019/09/04/are-hydrogen-cars-still-happening/

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