/sci/ - Science & Math » Thread #10928834

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Anonymous Thu 29 Aug 21:05:52 2019 No.10928834 View Reply Original Report

Quoted By: >>10928879 >>10928949 >>10929061 >>10929085 >>10929097 >>10929109 >>10929111 >>10929122 >>10929147 >>10930541 >>10930833 >>10933015

>absolute velocity doesn't exist
>moving clocks tick slower
choose one and only one relativitycucks

>put a clock on every object in the universe
>check which clock is ticking the slowest
congratulations, you now know which object is the OBJECTIVELY AND ABSOLUT fastest in the universe, inversely you also know the slowest object. you may have to adjust for gravitational time dilation but that's easy

>NOOOOOOO YOU CANT DO THAT, EVERYTHING IS RELATIVE
kek keep seething

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 29 Aug 2019 21:26:46 No.10928879 Report

Quoted By:

>>10928834
>i dont actually know special relativity but allow me to LARP

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 29 Aug 2019 21:50:11 No.10928949 Report

Quoted By:

>>10928834
>>put a clock on every object in the universe
wow who knew it was that simple. let's totally do that you guys

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 30 Aug 2019 00:24:35 No.10929061 Report

Quoted By:

>>10928834
Based, I never understood how everyone missed this flaw.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 30 Aug 2019 01:31:18 No.10929085 Report

Quoted By: >>10929120

>>10928834
I'll bite. How can you tell if it is ticking slowly? You need to compare it to something. If you are imagining some kind of absolute time ticking in the background that you compare it to, that's fine. But that defines your reference frame. The slowest clock is only moving fastest with respect to this reference frame

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 30 Aug 2019 01:46:06 No.10929093 Report

Quoted By:

The speed of that clock is relative to the observer

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 30 Aug 2019 02:01:37 No.10929097 Report

Quoted By:

>>10928834
Lmao based and universal reference frame pilled

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 30 Aug 2019 02:21:54 No.10929109 Report

Quoted By:

>>10928834
>>absolute velocity doesn't exist
>>moving clocks tick slower
>choose one and only one relativitycucks
Both.
>>10928834
>>put a clock on every object in the universe
>>check which clock is ticking the slowest
>congratulations, you now know which object is the OBJECTIVELY AND ABSOLUT fastest in the universe
Which clock is ticking slowest will depend on your own velocity. So yes, this tells you which object is fastest... in your reference frame.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 30 Aug 2019 02:24:29 No.10929111 Report

Quoted By:

>>10928834
Dum-dum, the end-all, be-all standard to measure velocity against is THE SPEED OF LIGHT.
>brainlets!
Go back to >>>/b/, cumbrain, go back to fapping to tranny porn. You are insufficient for /sci/.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 30 Aug 2019 02:29:50 No.10929120 Report

Quoted By: >>10930488

>>10929085
you compare the clocks to each other, you dont need absolute time.
the point is: if you send a rocket into space at 0.9c and after one year of earth-time it comes back, then less than 1year of time has passed on the rocket. because it was flying at an objectively higher speed than earth.
from the rockets point of view it’s stationary and the earth was going at 0.9c but we know this isnt valid because less time has passed on the rocket.
so absolute speed is a thing and can be measured with clocks

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 30 Aug 2019 02:30:24 No.10929122 Report

Quoted By:

>>10928834
Science absolutely BTFO

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 30 Aug 2019 03:31:50 No.10929147 Report

Quoted By:

>>10928834
the answer probably is in the loss of simultaneity
https://youtu.be/kGsbBw1I0Rg?t=3m30s

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 30 Aug 2019 03:51:11 No.10929160 Report

Quoted By:

the object ticking the slowest is light. there is no "time" for light. from the point of view of light, the universe was over as soon as it began

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 30 Aug 2019 20:35:35 No.10930395 Report

Quoted By: >>10930488

>put a clock on every object in the universe
>check which clock is ticking the slowest

man I am an ultra brainlet but what are you even trying to say here?

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 30 Aug 2019 20:54:13 No.10930434 Report

Quoted By: >>10930446 >>10930488

This is retarded, different observers are going to measure different times on the same clock. There would be no consistency. You could ask what is the "slowest" measurement of a specific clock, but that would only give you results in the reference frame of that one single clock, which is useless data.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 30 Aug 2019 20:58:02 No.10930446 Report

Quoted By:

>>10930434
> different observers are going to measure different times on the same clock

Then listen to the observer with the best eyesight

capt fast

capt fast Fri 30 Aug 2019 21:05:30 No.10930467 Report

Quoted By:

observing directly affects outcome of what is observed. experimental physicists see this all the time. just gotta love a pun or two...

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 30 Aug 2019 21:14:39 No.10930488 Report

Quoted By: >>10930511 >>10930570

>>10930395
>>10930434
refer to>>10929120
when the spaceship comes back to earth it‘s onboard clock will be objectively lagging behind a clock that remained on earth because the spaceship was objectively going faster than earth

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 30 Aug 2019 21:22:22 No.10930511 Report

Quoted By: >>10930526

>>10930488
So a clock on earth is the objective time frame of the universe?

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 30 Aug 2019 21:26:53 No.10930526 Report

Quoted By: >>10930535

>>10930511
Not anon but
No the earth is just relatively slower than the rocket. Much like how the fastest object is relatively faster than the slowest. Everything is still relative anon

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 30 Aug 2019 21:29:42 No.10930535 Report

Quoted By: >>10930540

>>10930526
Yeah, that was what I meant with my question, since he seemed to claim that the ship is objectively traveling slower

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 30 Aug 2019 21:31:37 No.10930540 Report

Quoted By:

>>10930535
Faster *

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 30 Aug 2019 21:31:53 No.10930541 Report

Quoted By: >>10930554

>>10928834
But we already know which object is the fastest in the universe, and that is light.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 30 Aug 2019 21:35:38 No.10930554 Report

Quoted By:

>>10930541
>forgetting about tachyons

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 30 Aug 2019 21:40:34 No.10930570 Report

Quoted By: >>10930672

>>10930488
>onboard clock will be objectively lagging behind a clock that remained on earth
this is not objective. you want to say something like the 1000th tick on spaceship occured after the 1000th tick on earth, but this is not objective. there will be a reference frame in which they occured at the same time.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 30 Aug 2019 22:14:28 No.10930672 Report

Quoted By: >>10930678 >>10930724

>>10930570
if you were a god who could instantly observe the earth and the spaceship at the same time you would see the clock on the spaceship ticking slower than the one on earth
the speed of light being limited doesn't make the universe subjective it just makes every observations subjective

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 30 Aug 2019 22:17:20 No.10930678 Report

Quoted By: >>10930785

>>10930672
>if you were a god who could instantly observe the earth and the spaceship at the same time you would see the clock on the spaceship ticking slower than the one on earth
only if you were a god who is at rest with respect to Earth
>the speed of light being limited doesn't make the universe subjective it just makes every observations subjective
precisely, even by god

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 30 Aug 2019 22:34:38 No.10930724 Report

Quoted By: >>10930785

>>10930672
a spaceship is travelling from earth at an arbitrary, but constant speed. then there always exist 3 observers such that:

0. they all represent inertial frames of reference. this means that neither of them is able to tell if he's moving or at rest and there is no way to objectively decide this. this is just classical Galilean invariance, theory of relativity is not used here.

1. the first one sees the Earth at rest and the spaceship moving. the Earth clocks are ticking faster.

2. the second one sees the spaceship at rest and the Earth moving. the spaceship clocks are ticking faster.

3. he sees both the spaceship and the planet moving with the same speed. both clocks are ticking with the same frequency.

so how does the god decide which one is right ?

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 30 Aug 2019 22:35:42 No.10930727 Report

Quoted By:

Why don't we just move at every possible speed simultaneously

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 30 Aug 2019 22:54:58 No.10930785 Report

Quoted By: >>10930796

>>10930678
>only if you were a god who is at rest with respect to Earth
you would always observe that independent of your speed
once the spaceship arrives back at earth you always observe its clock lagging behind the earth-clock. so logically the spaceship clock had to tick slower while it was moving in space

>>10930724
so how does the god decide which one is right
he always sees the earth clock ticking faster
if you arent a god who can observe instantaneously you can also just wait until the spaceship is back at earth.
then you can confirm the spaceship-clock is lagging behind earth-clock which means is was ticking slower than earth clock while it was in space

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 30 Aug 2019 22:59:19 No.10930796 Report

Quoted By: >>10930813 >>10931002

>>10930785
>he always sees the earth clock ticking faster
give me one reason why should he see this. also tell me what would he say if the spaceship wasn't a spaceship (an object which "obviously moves"), but some other planet

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 30 Aug 2019 23:07:02 No.10930813 Report

Quoted By: >>10930821

>>10930796
>give me one reason why should he see this.
because if the spaceship-clock is ticking faster, how could it lag behind the earth-clock once it arrives back at earth?
which will obviously be the case.
i dont get your second question

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 30 Aug 2019 23:12:04 No.10930821 Report

Quoted By: >>10930843

>>10930813
>because if the spaceship-clock is ticking faster, how could it lag behind the earth-clock once it arrives back at earth?
because the fact that spaceship arrived back on earth with clock that ticked fewer times is because the spaceship CHANGED DIRECTION. its frame of reference had to be non-inertial for some time. unless this change occurs, there's no way to objectively say what is going faster or which clock is ticking faster.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 30 Aug 2019 23:18:20 No.10930833 Report

Quoted By:

>>10928834
thats not the point friend, no one ever claimed you can't know what the fastest or the slowest object is. in fact, most people claim it's light

that's why it's called RELATIVE velocity, because you can't measure it by itself, you have to measure it against another standard. if you measure it against another standard, of course you know what their RELATION is: is it faster or slower? but that doesn't mean it has an absolute measure. An absolute measure means it would still have the same physical properties in an empty universe

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 30 Aug 2019 23:23:33 No.10930843 Report

Quoted By: >>10930866 >>10932708

>>10930821
>its frame of reference had to be non-inertial for some time.
so your saying you cant turn around without stopping? what the fuck.
do you know what a u-turn is?

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 30 Aug 2019 23:31:09 No.10930866 Report

Quoted By:

>>10930843
no, where the hell did I say that

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 31 Aug 2019 00:24:05 No.10931002 Report

Quoted By:

>>10930796
which planet is more massive?

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 31 Aug 2019 15:32:50 No.10932708 Report

Quoted By:

>>10930843
doing a u turn requires accelerating and hence makes your frame non-inertial

Anonymous

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Anonymous Sat 31 Aug 2019 15:58:13 No.10932755 Report

Quoted By: >>10933010

>Have grandmaship, mothership, and daughtership, each with clocks
>Grandmaship launches mothership at 0.9c to measure time dilation.
>Mothership launches daughtership when constant 0.9c velocity is reached.
>Daughtership accelerates to 0.9c in-line with velocity vector of mothership
>Time dilation of daughter in relation to mother is x-factor
>Time dilation of mother in relation to grandma is also x-factor
>Time dilation of daughter to grandma is ?-factor
>Add great^(n)-grandmaships ad nauseam all with in-line velocity vectors
"Speed of light is constant on all fraes of reference"
How fast is daughtership moving in relations to each generation ship then?

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 31 Aug 2019 17:32:11 No.10933010 Report

Quoted By:

>>10932755
Use the Lorentz transformations:
$dx' = \gamma (dx - v\cdot dt)$
$dt' = \gamma (dt - \frac{v}{c^2}\cdot dx)$
To get the velocity addition formula:
$u' = \frac{dx'}{dt'} = \frac{\gamma (dx - v\cdot dt)}{\gamma (dt - \frac{v}{c^2}\cdot dx)} = \frac{u - v}{1 - \frac{uv}{c^2}}$
Where observer 2 moves at velocity v relative to observer 1, u is the target object velocity relative to observer 1, and u' is the target object velocity relative to observer 2.

Daughtership therefore moves at about 0.9945 c relative to grandmaship, about 0.9997 c relative to great grandmaship, etc.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 31 Aug 2019 17:35:57 No.10933015 Report

Quoted By:

>>10928834
>>put a clock on every object in the universe
>>check which clock is ticking the slowest
>congratulations, you now know which object is the OBJECTIVELY AND ABSOLUT fastest in the universe, inversely you also know the slowest object. you may have to adjust for gravitational time dilation but that's easy
Assuming gravity is zero everywhere, this statement is till wrong.
Let say, you do what you just said and find that clock A is the slowest. But if you ask someone else to do the experiment, they will find that clock B is the slowest. So this statement is false.

Anonymous

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Anonymous Sat 31 Aug 2019 18:26:28 No.10933202 Report

Quoted By:

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