/sci/ - Science & Math » Thread #10867241

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What separates an Ivy/top school to any other school in terms of content learned?

Anonymous Tue 06 Aug 01:25:23 2019 No.10867241 View Reply Original Report

For example, say there are two engineering students

one goes to MIT
the other goes to Arizona State or some other party school with an engineering program

Sure, the MIT student will have more connections, but will he know more than the Arizona student?

Surely there is some kind of common standard, I.e, to get an aerospace degree, all students have to know Prandtl etc etc, right?

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 06 Aug 2019 01:27:55 No.10867248 Report

Quoted By: >>10867652 >>10868003

>>10867241
Expectations

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 06 Aug 2019 01:28:20 No.10867249 Report

Quoted By:

Content learned? Not a lot. Assuming the student that goes to Arizona state doesn't fall into partying and applies the same effort as the dude from MIT. I guess maybe the difference would be MIT is "cutting edge" they have more money and therefore more resources, but anything learned at MIT will then be published in a paper and the professors at Arizona state will read it and teach based on it. Other than a badge of honor and as you said, connections. Ivy schools are a meme.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 06 Aug 2019 01:46:59 No.10867285 Report

Quoted By: >>10867314 >>10867431 >>10868049

>>10867241
I suspect professors will be of a higher caliber at ivy league schools, at least in terms of lecturing, expect better teaching of the content. However, this may be based on the amount of questions students ask and obviously doesn't apply to all professors, ivy league or not. I remember having professors where I basically had to self teach the class, I doubt they would let that happen at ivy league.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 06 Aug 2019 02:03:14 No.10867314 Report

Quoted By:

>>10867285
this

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 06 Aug 2019 02:12:07 No.10867331 Report

Quoted By: >>10868003 >>10868443

>>10867241
students

the MIT student goes to class but is cracking millennial prize problems while letting the professor drone on

the Arizona State student goes to class and listens to the old boomer tired of life give a water-down kiddie version of whatever shit subject he is forced to teach

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 06 Aug 2019 02:21:31 No.10867350 Report

Quoted By: >>10868003

>>10867241
The difference is in the affiliations the school has with other programs. In terms of knowledge, the ASU grad must know as much as the MIT grad in order to receive the same degree. However, the opportunities provided by MIT will be much more valuable to the student's career growth.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 06 Aug 2019 03:03:28 No.10867409 Report

Quoted By: >>10868003

>>10867241
MIT has better research/internship opportunities to put on your resume. That's pretty much the main advantage

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 06 Aug 2019 03:07:00 No.10867420 Report

Quoted By:

>>10867241
No, anon.
While it is true that the Arizona State and the MIT student might learn the same things given their high amount of research, etc. I think you're comparing an apple with a pear, but you are not really doing a good hypotetical compasion between an apple and a frog.

Since a better comparison that will greatly favor the MIT student is comparing himself to a, say, University of Nebraska at Kearney.
The MIT student will, of course, learn the same general education curriculum as the UNK, however there will be a big difference between the upper divisions of MIT and UNK as the latter does not have that many professors in Engineering in comparison to the MIT as there willl be a shortage of specialization in a given narrow topic within an academic field.
A simpler example would be the English majors for both and a tl;dr: While the UNK student will take the common English courses necessary for just graduating with a BA in English, i.e., scratching the surface of Grammar, Logic and Rhetoric; the MIT student, while one can take the same degree as the UNK, the faculty here are able to even give you a proper degree of not just English but Grammar, Logic, Rhetoric, Creative Writing, Technical Writing, etc.

And that is the big difference between the Ivy/top school to any other school in the country.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 06 Aug 2019 03:11:29 No.10867431 Report

Quoted By: >>10868003

>>10867285
Nah. Top tier schools are recruiting professors for their research not their teaching ability. Most of the brilliant scientists I know don't care for teaching minus a couple.

The real separation comes from opportunities afforded. I'm at a top 5 phd program in my field and most of my classmates and people that interviewed worked with very famous names in our field.

If two kids have a 4.0 gpa from their respective schools, and one has a reccommendation from some no name professor, and the other has one from a nobel laureate the second person wins out every time.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 06 Aug 2019 03:41:44 No.10867482 Report

Quoted By: >>10867593 >>10867604

>>10867241
in undergrad, it is either a wash or a complete inversion. here's what i mean by this:

i took a course taught by a nobel prize winner, and yes, in physics. he was a TERRIBLE teacher and i learned next to nothing from him. however, he was a tenured prof at a top-tier school. and the reason for this was his research,

not his teaching.
teaching means shit for getting tenure-track positions. only research matters there.

so basically for undergrads, top-tier schools have many classed taught by super-smart guys who can't teach worth a damn. lower-tier schools might do better on teaching, but not typically. research is more valuable to the schools even there.

pretty much teaching is considered worthless all the way down to middle school. it is sad, but that's how the cookie crumbles. the only way you can find a good education in higher physics is by seeking out the smart guys yourself, applying to their programs, and being their bitch. the education system is too underfunded to be able to do that for you

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 06 Aug 2019 03:49:22 No.10867494 Report

Quoted By: >>10867615

>>10867241
at Harvard they actually teach you a secret magical calculus that's better than regular calculus, but you can't tell the secret to anybody who doesn't know the Harvard handshake
I've spoken too much -- the cleanup squads are gonna come for me now!

no you dumbass it's all the same shit. elite colleges are for networking and class signaling

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 06 Aug 2019 03:49:56 No.10867495 Report

Quoted By:

>>10867241
The difference between high caliber schools and mid tier schools is the depth you can go in specific disciplines of your field. You'll have a much larger breadth of electives you can choose from so that you can specialize in some sort of niche if you want. All schools will have the same fundamentals but bigger schools allow you to go deeper into subdisciplines.

Anonymous

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Anonymous Tue 06 Aug 2019 03:53:49 No.10867503 Report

Quoted By:

>>10867241
The type of students and faculty admitted to the university. Plus a larger budget.

It's convention that class grade on a curve, so in order to get passing grades at a top university, you are going to have to work a lot harder to compete against the other super smart people in the class. Faculty is also smarter, so you're more likely to land in a relevant research position.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 06 Aug 2019 04:30:41 No.10867565 Report

Quoted By:

>>10867241

Nothing, you will get paid the same but the only difference is that you just wasted your high school and college years for the same degree and likely spent a lot of money doing it.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 06 Aug 2019 04:32:21 No.10867567 Report

Quoted By:

>>10867241
Math at Harvard is definitely at a higher level look up math 55 its a first year math course at Harvard

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 06 Aug 2019 04:49:06 No.10867593 Report

Quoted By:

>>10867482
>lower-tier schools might do better on teaching, but not typically. research is more valuable to the schools even there.
This one might be changing a bit. Since lower-tiers have generally lower funding for dedicated research labs, they've really started to embrace CURE courses as a method of both enhancing research and of better training entire cohorts in the sciences.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 06 Aug 2019 05:00:53 No.10867604 Report

Quoted By: >>10867670

>>10867482
teaching is thankless and woefully bureaucratic these days. it quickly becomes a crazy amount of effort, energy, personal investment, time, etc. to be a good teacher, and yet they get paid a pittance.

if anything is dooming the future of humanity, it's the state of the classroom. one of the most formative parts of a young person's upbringing and we squander it by treating their instructors as second-class.

I feel strongly on this subject.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 06 Aug 2019 05:04:33 No.10867611 Report

Quoted By:

>>10867241
Rich people's kids go there, and thus you get to be part of the elite, or at least a truted servant. If you go to community college, there is a high risk you will have loyalty to the general populace and thus you need to prov your loyalty in other ways.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 06 Aug 2019 05:06:29 No.10867615 Report

Quoted By: >>10867623

>>10867494
pretty much everyone who go's to Harvard and is a math major has already take Calc AB and BC thats why they have three main options for 1st year math majors the lowest being multivariate calculus. the second tier being Linear Algebra and Real Analysis I & II. and the highest first year course Abstract Algebra (Math 55a) and Honors Real and Complex Analysis Math 55b

there are not many colleges that have real and complex analysis and abstract algebra for first years students.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 06 Aug 2019 05:09:19 No.10867623 Report

Quoted By:

>>10867615
While this is true there is still nothing stopping a student of any kind of learning that material on their own.
And if they do need assistance on a few things, I'm sure there are plenty of math wizards out there spilling to impart their knowledge onto someone else.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 06 Aug 2019 05:27:21 No.10867652 Report

Quoted By:

>>10867248

This. You will notice, in undergrad, at any of these high tier schools, the profs will treat you like their equal and see themselvse in you.

If you are at a low tier school usually the profs come from high tier ones and will let you know that you will never amount to anything and t hat they will handwave pass t he wohle class simply because of the low tier of the school the class is being held at.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 06 Aug 2019 05:41:09 No.10867667 Report

Quoted By:

>>10867241
>What separates an Ivy/top school to any other school in terms of content learned?
content provided nearly the same, content learned would depend on the student, and the students at the ivy/top are probably better

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 06 Aug 2019 05:43:18 No.10867670 Report

Quoted By:

>>10867604
teaching isn't considered valuable because "anyone" can do it. If you can't do, teach! If you can't teach... teach anyway!

Anonymous

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Anonymous Tue 06 Aug 2019 06:31:20 No.10867710 Report

Quoted By: >>10867849

>>10867241
my answer is exposure.

i went to harvard and it just exposed me to people of incredible talents in fields i had no idea even existed. it was just surrounding yourself with extremely gifted individuals and professors that is just in a high concentration.

that's what i loved about it. i came from a HS where i was considered a genius for getting a 1600 on the SAT. i would get made fun of for theorizing things in class, but my teachers loved me.

i'm very happy i went to harvard. and the name gets you interviews and in the door pretty much anywhere from that alone.

MIT i feel is different. they didn't accept me. i majored in physics, and all my professors went to MIT and then Caltech. those schools don't fuck around. at harvard, there was a lot of grade inflation. my friends who went to city schools had harder material, but really ineffective teachers.

also, OP, i just watched that movie last night.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 06 Aug 2019 08:32:34 No.10867849 Report

Quoted By: >>10867862 >>10868135 >>10868437 >>10868456

>>10867710
What's stopping me from saying I went to Harvard on my resume?

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 06 Aug 2019 08:39:24 No.10867862 Report

Quoted By:

>>10867849
A phonecall

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 06 Aug 2019 08:45:13 No.10867872 Report

Quoted By: >>10867892

>>10867241
>will he know more than the Arizona student?
Not by default, top schools just attract high achievers and party unis party people, but the learning outcome is up to the student, no professor can just pour the knowledge in.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 06 Aug 2019 09:08:55 No.10867892 Report

Quoted By:

>>10867872
This right here
They promote selective breeding intentionally.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 06 Aug 2019 09:10:11 No.10867893 Report

Quoted By:

MIT can add more value if you're really trying to be super advanced/fast-tracked

If you're taking the minimum required coursework it'll be similar

If you're coming into university with a crazy self-taught/home-schooled background you would really want to go to an MIT level school where you can be challenged and take grad courses for undergrad credit, etc

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 06 Aug 2019 10:19:52 No.10868003 Report

Quoted By:

>>10867241
>went to low tier school
>transferred to high tier school
>math major
>what's the difference
1) even in middling tier schools, the content will be taught in a much easier way. The tests may be just as easy (after the curve), but the professors won't give you a bunch of easy examples in the middle of the lecture. Instead, they will explore more topics (in a computational/technique/formula memorization class) or will teach the class in a deeper way (in a proof/understanding class).>>10867431
right most of my profs teach right out of the book, but we use a very hard book. >>10867248
has a point, even a B/C student learns a lot, which is why low tier schools have harder GPA requirement for major classes
Also, if you go to a top tier school and take a bunch of "random" classes, people will be more likely to take you seriously if your major is "engineering in underwater basket weaving" than if you go to a shit school and there's a chance you did'n't learn anything.
>>10867331
hyperbole, but not untrue. Not every unsolved problem is at the pHD level.
>>10867350
exactly
>>10867409
true but it's not everything
And everyone who says top tier schools hire professors only for research, you are mostly right, but on the other hand, somebody who went to a top tier school finished a lot of their lower div classes in high school, where, usually, the teachers really care about you.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 06 Aug 2019 10:55:32 No.10868049 Report

Quoted By:

>>10867285
Nah, I've taught both.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 06 Aug 2019 11:50:29 No.10868120 Report

Quoted By: >>10868434

I got rejected from a scholar ship becuase my retarded parents suppprted ISIS or something so now I'm forced to study in a 3rd world country, depsite my qualifications.
Comfort me anons

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 06 Aug 2019 12:08:29 No.10868135 Report

Quoted By:

>>10867849
a harvard.edu email perhaps. the way you act in person knowing it's a lie. not having references from harvard. etc.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 06 Aug 2019 14:46:01 No.10868383 Report

Quoted By:

>>10867241
Don't think there's all that much of a difference in material covered at the undergrad level. Though, seems to me that most of the private "top" schools have rampant grade inflation.

IMO, differences are in research opportunities at top schools, and in competition within courses. So, to the second point, maybe it's harder to be at the top of the class? But, then again, grade inflation. Maybe not at MIT itself (don't know, never been), but seems to be the case at Ivies, Stanford, etc.

The first point is the big difference. The research opportunities are hugely different at top schools versus, shall we say, "non-top" schools. In a different field than engineering, in biomedical research, now in a PhD program. I think having the experience in undergrad of working in a high-profile lab for a big-name PI, and being exposed to that environment can make a huge difference when it comes to proceeding to the next step in your career in science. Students at not-top schools may have to seek out other ways to get the same experiences, such as summer REUs. Or perhaps a nearby university or extra research term? Not saying it can't be done, though -- I've known plenty of students who have not come from top schools and had great careers in science.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 06 Aug 2019 15:06:49 No.10868434 Report

Quoted By:

>>10868120
I can't comfort you. I was forced to finish my PhD in my home and now I can't find work anywhere on the planet despite having EU citizenship, Washington Accord accreditted degrees etc. To make it worse at conferences I met all the professors who were leaders in my field at MIT, ETH Zurich etc. and they all thought I would easily get accepted into a too tier school with my publication record, never happened either because I'm White or too tainted with third worldness.

Life isn't fair and we're going to starve in our respective shitholes.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 06 Aug 2019 15:07:52 No.10868437 Report

Quoted By:

>>10867849
HR at major companies check this.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 06 Aug 2019 15:14:43 No.10868443 Report

Quoted By:

>>10867331
This. I went to a top-tier school for Math and I'm not even in the 1% in terms of muh IQ but there are kids at age 19 who were correcting their professor's work lmao. MIT >>>>>>>>> ASU

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 06 Aug 2019 15:14:53 No.10868444 Report

Quoted By:

>>10867241
They say the hardest part about ivy league schools is getting in. People expect a certain caliber out of MIT cause they only accept a certain caliber (or a big donation hehe). I've met a couple of those fucks and they're on another level. Bunch of autistic geniuses that I have no desire to keep up with.

Like one of the guy counted the stripes on my shirt as I was walking up and decided he liked me cause it was an even number. There were a lot of stripes..
Imagine asking one of these guys instead of Google cause it's faster.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 06 Aug 2019 15:16:42 No.10868455 Report

Quoted By:

>>10867241
It's all about the networking opportunities.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 06 Aug 2019 15:16:54 No.10868456 Report

Quoted By:

>>10867849
Well, nothing, but backing it up without transcripts is gonna be hard

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 06 Aug 2019 15:22:36 No.10868471 Report

Quoted By: >>10868474

i'd say truth is the higher. the prof's know more so they give the TRUTH, they can afford labs so you SEE the truth, they have specializations, they have a higher standard, fast pace. even in liberal arts u want high tier because you're not rolling in tardshit, you're discussing the TRUTH
if the world was like calpoly i'd have tardshit under my skin and a tardick in my ass

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 06 Aug 2019 15:24:30 No.10868474 Report

Quoted By: >>10868485

>>10868471
in statics 1 at cal poly i said 2 & 0 force members dont exist. we didnt have labs 2 prove her wrong

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 06 Aug 2019 15:30:23 No.10868485 Report

Quoted By: >>10868493

>>10868474
at mit civil they have atomistic modeling, at state schools they dunno bout adams

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 06 Aug 2019 15:33:34 No.10868493 Report

Quoted By: >>10868496

>>10868485
i also bet u can take grad courses under, some schools dont have grad progs, the dumbfuck students

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 06 Aug 2019 15:34:51 No.10868496 Report

Quoted By: >>10868497

>>10868493
i wasnt phys or chem at bumstate and when i talked to them they knew NOTHING

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 06 Aug 2019 15:35:53 No.10868497 Report

Quoted By: >>10868506

>>10868496
One dude was so dumb that he said that's chemistry I'm studying physics

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 06 Aug 2019 15:39:56 No.10868506 Report

Quoted By:

>>10868497
and they didnt have grad program. that dude's one lost motherfucker son of a bitchnitchkriyznitsnitch

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