/sci/ - Science & Math » Thread #10843338

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Imbecile?

Anonymous Sun 28 Jul 10:52:20 2019 No.10843338 View Reply Original Report

Quoted By: >>10843570 >>10843602 >>10843844 >>10847565

For the record these are the best responses to the recent Taleb's rant about IQ:
ideasanddata.wordpress.com/2019/01/08/nassim-taleb-on-iq/
www.jsmp.dk/posts/2019-06-16-talebiq/

and here's Taleb's pieces
medium.com/incerto/iq-is-largely-a-pseudoscientific-swindle-f131c101ba39
www.academia.edu/39797871/Common_Misapplications_and_Misinterpretations_of_Correlation_in_Social_Science_

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 28 Jul 2019 10:55:19 No.10843339 Report

Quoted By: >>10848666

who

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 28 Jul 2019 11:33:39 No.10843375 Report

Quoted By:

This fat fuck always overestimates his case because of his ginormous ego.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 28 Jul 2019 12:19:06 No.10843412 Report

Quoted By: >>10848867 >>10849207

Psychology and IQ research is basically a collection of p-hacking and other forms of junk statistics.

You can build a career in psychology by picking through datasets and finding correlations with IQ. Cherry pick long enough and you will find something.

There's also the problem that IQ has become a kind of self reinforcing force in the world, with companies using pseudo-IQ tests or IQ proxies in their hiring processes, which of course would skew the results to show a correlation with IQ.

In any other discipline, the correlations that IQ researchers put up would be laughed out of the room, but I guess its good enough for social science.

Taleb is spot on with his techincal points, and then he goes into trolling as per usual. I fucking love it when onions boys lose their shit because of his "ego".

Anonymous

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Anonymous Sun 28 Jul 2019 14:05:14 No.10843570 Report

Quoted By: >>10843578 >>10847114

>>10843338
>www.jsmp.dk/posts/2019-06-16-talebiq/
Completely misses the point, if he did regression analysis by splitting the function outputtin iq in relation to a dependent variable in half and ran those, he would see that the bulk of the correlation weight comes from below average intelligence, while above average intelligence yields a barely significant correlation.

Via negativa not via positiva, fragilistas!

Anonymous

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Anonymous Sun 28 Jul 2019 14:12:37 No.10843578 Report

Quoted By: >>10843581 >>10845129

>>10843570
>while above average intelligence yields a barely significant correlation.

Seems like possible correlation to me. More importantly, there is too little datapoints at higher IQ/income levels for a definite conclusion here. Taleb is a retard who forgot to mention this crucial fact in order to spin his agenda.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 28 Jul 2019 14:14:20 No.10843581 Report

Quoted By: >>10843590 >>10847114

>>10843578
>his agenda.
what is his "agenda"?

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 28 Jul 2019 14:21:55 No.10843590 Report

Quoted By: >>10843880

>>10843581
denial of the validity of evolutionary psychology because genetic determinism baad

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 28 Jul 2019 14:33:20 No.10843602 Report

Quoted By: >>10843614 >>10843619 >>10844209 >>10845196

>>10843338
>medium.com/incerto/iq-is-largely-a-pseudoscientific-swindle-f131c101ba39

Imagine unironically defending income as the only measure of success. Jesus Christ. Fucking quants I swear...

So maybe correlation between IQ and income is very weak above certain level, sure. Now do the same thing with something like h-index or other metrics measuring scientific output.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 28 Jul 2019 14:41:46 No.10843614 Report

Quoted By:

>>10843602
>There is no significant statistical association between IQ and hard measures such as wealth. Most “achievements” linked to IQ are measured in circular stuff s.a. bureaucratic or academic success, things for test takers and salary earners in structured jobs that resemble the tests. Wealth may not mean success but it is the only “hard” number, not some discrete score of achievements. You can buy food with a $30, not with other “successes” s.a. rank, social prominence, or having had a selfie with the Queen.

Anonymous

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Anonymous Sun 28 Jul 2019 14:44:25 No.10843619 Report

Quoted By: >>10843691 >>10843750 >>10845196

>>10843602
Suffice to say, his scale outright ends at 130 IQ points, likely even below the average of a moderately accomplished STEM scientist. How convenient, ignoring academic and scholarly achievements as a measure of success.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 28 Jul 2019 15:21:22 No.10843691 Report

Quoted By:

>>10843619
>Psychology
>113
The blind leading the blind

Anonymous

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Anonymous Sun 28 Jul 2019 15:26:53 No.10843699 Report

Quoted By: >>10847080

>another IQ thread

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 28 Jul 2019 16:02:12 No.10843750 Report

Quoted By:

>>10843619
it's 2 SD up literally only 2% of the population is above that bracket

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 28 Jul 2019 16:46:59 No.10843844 Report

Quoted By:

>>10843338
based black swan man making fun of idiots who think they are smart

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 28 Jul 2019 17:03:16 No.10843880 Report

Quoted By:

>>10843590
>denial of the validity of evolutionary psychology because genetic determinism baad
I don't get this impression at all. I'm pretty sure Taleb believes in "Intelligence", because he calls people idiots all day long on Twitter.

I think his point is that IQ is a bad measure of "Intelligence", not that it doesn't exist at all.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 28 Jul 2019 19:06:27 No.10844209 Report

Quoted By:

>>10843602
>maybe correlation between IQ and income is very weak above certain level
except correlation between IQ and income is very weak (0.2-0.3) AND linear at all levels of the distribution

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 29 Jul 2019 00:36:17 No.10845124 Report

Quoted By:

>he adjusted R2 is 0.356, so IQ explains ~35% of the variance of grades in this data set.
Fucking KEK. Regardless of where you personally stand on the IQ issue if this is the level of intellect presented by psychologists the field is actually garbage and its so called "results" should in no way be trusted.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 29 Jul 2019 00:39:55 No.10845129 Report

Quoted By: >>10845908

>>10843578
Possible correlation is an honest way to put it. Taleb would still argue against it, but the way psychologist spin this data they make it seem like IQ is as ironclad as F=ma. Like if you score 70ish on an IQ test but earn 180K or score 120 on an test and earn 30K there is something that needs to be cleaned up about your test.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 29 Jul 2019 00:59:00 No.10845196 Report

Quoted By: >>10847087

>>10843602
>>10843619
Academic achievement as a measure of success completely destroys IQ. You cannot hard measure the impact of a paper very well and a single brilliant insight can redefine you from ordinary to genius.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 29 Jul 2019 08:07:44 No.10845908 Report

Quoted By:

>>10845129
>psychologist spin this data they make it seem like IQ is as ironclad as F=ma
they don't

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 29 Jul 2019 08:37:13 No.10845936 Report

Quoted By: >>10847056 >>10849212

Taleb might not even be as butthurt as he seems in his denial. Not to say iq is as ironclad as some spergs wish it were. However, it’s probably of some use.

Nonetheless, Taleb is casting spells. He wants to define the real conditions of the real world he wishes to create, and is using his influence to that end.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 29 Jul 2019 08:53:30 No.10845950 Report

Quoted By:

>Tooleb
Yikes

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 29 Jul 2019 19:05:12 No.10847056 Report

Quoted By:

>>10845936
he's having fun

Anonymous

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Anonymous Mon 29 Jul 2019 19:19:14 No.10847080 Report

Quoted By: >>10849655

>>10843699
>another "another IQ thread" post

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 29 Jul 2019 19:22:42 No.10847087 Report

Quoted By:

>>10845196
there is a correlation

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 29 Jul 2019 19:38:05 No.10847114 Report

Quoted By: >>10847120

>>10843570
Which doesn't in any way negate the argument of most IQ-realists who ask:
>why are we importing massive amounts of sub 80-IQ shitskins into the first world?

The only reason Taleb is going on this tirade is because he identifies strongly with his lebanese ancestry and is salty as fuck that middle-east is now just a bunch of inbred retards. It's also why his other big bone to pick is "proving" that Lebanese is not a dialect of arabic, because, again, he loves his ancestry but doesn't want to be associated with inbred retards

>>10843581
That's his agenda lad, saltiness.

Anonymous

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Anonymous Mon 29 Jul 2019 19:41:50 No.10847120 Report

Quoted By: >>10847137 >>10847138

>>10847114
Lebanon isn't as inbred as Arab shitholes

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 29 Jul 2019 19:50:24 No.10847137 Report

Quoted By:

>>10847120
Not disagreeing with you anon,
wasn't making a quality statement about lebanon itself (was mostly thinking about the gulf states when I referred to the "middle east") just pointing out the most obvious explanation for Taleb's tirade.

Ironically, he has fallen victim to his own construct of Wittgenstein's ruler.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 29 Jul 2019 19:51:51 No.10847138 Report

Quoted By: >>10847149

>>10847120
It isn’t and they are much closer in genetic distance to Anatolians, Jews, Mesopotamians and Iranians than they are gulf arabs but they’re still admixed heavily with Arabian blood and culturally arabic

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 29 Jul 2019 19:57:13 No.10847149 Report

Quoted By:

>>10847138
>admixed heavily
barely any Arab blood in the Lebanese and Western Syrians, unlike Palestines and Jordans

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 29 Jul 2019 23:07:06 No.10847565 Report

Quoted By:

>>10843338
>these are the best responses to the recent Taleb's rant about IQ
see also
http://www.unz.com/jthompson/swanning-about-fooled-by-algebra/
http://www.unz.com/jthompson/in-the-wake-of-the-swan/

Anonymous

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Anonymous Tue 30 Jul 2019 08:05:03 No.10848666 Report

Quoted By:

>>10843339
Imbecile

Anonymous

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Anonymous Tue 30 Jul 2019 10:49:33 No.10848856 Report

Quoted By:

IQ fails 90% of the time. My generated data proofs it.

Anonymous

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Anonymous Tue 30 Jul 2019 10:56:46 No.10848867 Report

Quoted By: >>10849145

>>10843412
IQ research is better than many other fields especially when it comes to group differences (on which publications are probably a net. negative for your academic career).

https://psyarxiv.com/ytsvw/

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 30 Jul 2019 13:54:09 No.10849145 Report

Quoted By: >>10849194 >>10849211

>>10848867
as far as social sciences go i suppose it's up there

but at the end of the day it's a social science

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 30 Jul 2019 14:07:30 No.10849158 Report

Quoted By: >>10849313

IQ was created to justify racism.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 30 Jul 2019 14:30:47 No.10849194 Report

Quoted By:

>>10849145
Sure. If you define medical research and neuroscience as social sciences which is not the normal way you define it. You imbecile.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 30 Jul 2019 14:37:04 No.10849207 Report

Quoted By: >>10849213

>>10843412
Yeah social science is so shit that another field would never accept this.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 30 Jul 2019 14:40:44 No.10849211 Report

Quoted By: >>10849217

>>10849145
Sure. If you define medical research and neuroscience as social sciences which is not the normal way you define it. Look into some metascience studies on different fields. All have problems, they are less severe for things like physics and pretty bad for social psychology but to claim this is mostly a problem in social sciences is completely wrong. I guess you think that because they have less fancy lab equipment and white coats so you assume it's not real science which is a retarded way to look at the quality of research you imbecile.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 30 Jul 2019 14:41:17 No.10849212 Report

Quoted By: >>10849225

>>10845936
He’s being objective. There’s more to life than money. Jeff Bezos is a very rich man. But is he the smartest man in existence because of his money? Probably not. But iq would say he is.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 30 Jul 2019 14:41:48 No.10849213 Report

Quoted By: >>10849219

>>10849207
But they do and intelligence research is better than medical science in terms of statistical power.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 30 Jul 2019 14:43:36 No.10849217 Report

Quoted By: >>10849229

>>10849211
The quality is very low because it’s probably the most complex science and we have social butterflies doing it instead of actual hard workers who went into logic and natural science.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 30 Jul 2019 14:44:56 No.10849219 Report

Quoted By:

>>10849213
Doctors are better than “”””””””””””iq scientists“”””””””” and the world rightly treats IQ shitters like shit.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 30 Jul 2019 14:47:21 No.10849225 Report

Quoted By: >>10849230

>>10849212
incoherent post

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 30 Jul 2019 14:48:53 No.10849229 Report

Quoted By:

>>10849217
I think ideological bias is serious problem in social psychology. Many of them won't accept sterotype accuracy, one of the largest and most replicated findings in the field, because of this. "social butterflies" don't go into psychometric or behavioral genetics both of which are highly quantitative fields which is why a few physicist seem to be interested in it (hsu, cochran).

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 30 Jul 2019 14:49:09 No.10849230 Report

Quoted By:

>>10849225
I’m so smart that it’s hard to explain the thoughts in my head

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 30 Jul 2019 14:49:20 No.10849231 Report

Quoted By: >>10849234 >>10849236 >>10849247

Taleb is right. JF did a pretty good analysis of his post, but this does not disprove IQ differences in races. But IQ does not capture all intelligence and may be useless as a metric after 105 iq.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 30 Jul 2019 14:49:30 No.10849232 Report

Quoted By:

Modern day equivalent to phrenology. Coincidentally, phrenology is backing a comeback in the bullet-biting that comes with IQ worship

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 30 Jul 2019 14:50:15 No.10849234 Report

Quoted By: >>10849241 >>10849247 >>10849251

>>10849231
Flynn effect accounts for the differences. Also define race

Anonymous

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Anonymous Tue 30 Jul 2019 14:51:08 No.10849236 Report

Quoted By:

>>10849231
>JF

Ryan debunked his shit. JF pretends to be a lot smarter than he actually is.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u1jsWrQu7CQ

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 30 Jul 2019 14:54:41 No.10849241 Report

Quoted By: >>10849244

>>10849234
Race differences and Flynn effect have different causes. This has been shown pretty conclusively.

http://www.iapsych.com/iqmr/fe/LinkedDocuments/rushton2010ip.pdf

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 30 Jul 2019 14:55:45 No.10849244 Report

Quoted By:

>>10849241
Flynn effect will fix all differences ok

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 30 Jul 2019 14:56:12 No.10849247 Report

Quoted By: >>10849252 >>10849255

>>10849234
Differences persist despite Flynn effect.

>>10849231
>But IQ does not capture all intelligence and may be useless as a metric after 105 iq.

Maybe for income. Not for other achievements, such as academic and scholarly ones.

Anonymous

View Same Google iqdb SauceNAO human genetic diversity - 3D PCA.png, 303KiB, 659x582

Anonymous Tue 30 Jul 2019 14:57:23 No.10849251 Report

Quoted By: >>10849257

>>10849234
>Also define race

Anonymous

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Anonymous Tue 30 Jul 2019 14:57:39 No.10849252 Report

Quoted By: >>10849477 >>10849535

>>10849247
>Maybe for income
This isn't actually true.

https://www.gwern.net/docs/iq/2007-zagorsky.pdf

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 30 Jul 2019 14:58:07 No.10849255 Report

Quoted By: >>10849259 >>10849274

>>10849247
Flynn effect hasn’t finished working. Education is still low across the low in people atm. Once education is high, there will be no differences

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 30 Jul 2019 15:00:07 No.10849257 Report

Quoted By: >>10849262 >>10849274

>>10849251
Those are too broad. Blue has a wide range of IQs. In fact every colour has a wide range of iqs

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 30 Jul 2019 15:02:21 No.10849259 Report

Quoted By: >>10849265 >>10849267

>>10849255
>Flynn effect hasn’t finished working
It actually reversed in a few developed countries,

>Education is still low across the low in people atm. Once education is high, there will be no differences

Incompatible with transracial adoption studies and high within group heritability for both blacks and whites. Except if you want to argue that the enviomental gap between blacks and whites is so large that there is basically no overlap.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 30 Jul 2019 15:03:59 No.10849262 Report

Quoted By: >>10849271

>>10849257
>High within group variance in 1 (ONE) trait makes a taxon untenable.

What is this?

https://www.ln.edu.hk/philoso/staff/sesardic/Race.pdf

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 30 Jul 2019 15:05:25 No.10849265 Report

Quoted By: >>10849274

>>10849259
The effects of Education can be inherited. That’s why children of uneducated people do badly. It’s called genetic memory. The same way Jews genetically remember the holocaust

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 30 Jul 2019 15:06:42 No.10849267 Report

Quoted By: >>10849274

>>10849259
Yeah it’s reversed because education in the developed world isn’t as good anymore.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 30 Jul 2019 15:09:01 No.10849271 Report

Quoted By: >>10849274

>>10849262
More difference within than between means it’s useless. In any real field it would be thrown into the garbage like taleb said. But s’nce it’s social science you are getting a second chance

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 30 Jul 2019 15:09:56 No.10849274 Report

Quoted By:

>>10849271
>>10849267
>>10849265
>>10849257
>>10849255
this is all bait

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 30 Jul 2019 15:34:23 No.10849313 Report

Quoted By: >>10849337 >>10849344 >>10849351

>>10849158
>IQ was created to justify racism.
not really, it was created to evaluate draftees and place them into military roles

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 30 Jul 2019 15:35:26 No.10849315 Report

Quoted By:

I wish I knew enough about statistics to understand talebs' arguments

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 30 Jul 2019 15:48:24 No.10849337 Report

Quoted By:

>>10849313
It goes back even further than that. It was part of a series of tests developed by a child psychologist and the french government to diagnose children with learning disabilities. The application of IQ to military draftees came later. The guy who changed the IQ test to the measure of intelligence looked at the new recruits and said that they were all retarded and became so because they were mutts who mixed too much with blacks

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 30 Jul 2019 15:52:08 No.10849344 Report

Quoted By:

>>10849313
No it was actually created in france to diagnose learning disabilities. Doesn't really matter anyways. What's funny about taleb calling iq proponents nazis is that the nazis didn't like IQ tests at all.

https://emilkirkegaard.dk/en/?p=7472&source=post_page---------------------------

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 30 Jul 2019 15:54:57 No.10849351 Report

Quoted By:

>>10849313
No it was actually created in france to diagnose learning disabilities. Doesn't really matter anyways. What's funny about taleb calling iq proponents nazis is that the nazis didn't like IQ tests at all and the reasons they gave for disliking are somewhat similar to some of the reasons taleb gives.

https://emilkirkegaard.dk/en/?p=7472&source=post_page---------------------------

Anonymous

View Same Google iqdb SauceNAO test.png, 35KiB, 1228x179

Anonymous Tue 30 Jul 2019 15:57:11 No.10849355 Report

Quoted By: >>10849438

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 30 Jul 2019 16:27:38 No.10849438 Report

Quoted By:

>>10849355
Cringe. My IQ is 85 and I ended up fully supporting trump. IQ isn't everything

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 30 Jul 2019 16:41:24 No.10849477 Report

Quoted By: >>10849523

>>10849252
Is there a csv available for this shit?

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 30 Jul 2019 16:55:59 No.10849523 Report

Quoted By:

>>10849477
I'm not sure if there is a public dataset with IQ and income data. Your best bet is probably asking someone in hbd crowd like Kirkegaard, Crémieux, John Fuerst, James Thompson, ...

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 30 Jul 2019 16:59:57 No.10849535 Report

Quoted By: >>10849541

>>10849252
>https://www.gwern.net/docs/iq/2007-zagorsky.pdf
Does anyone have the csv of the dataset used in this example?

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 30 Jul 2019 17:03:10 No.10849541 Report

Quoted By:

>>10849535
https://www.nlsinfo.org/content/getting-started/accessing-data

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 30 Jul 2019 17:49:54 No.10849617 Report

Quoted By: >>10849655

>another iq thread

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 30 Jul 2019 18:10:46 No.10849655 Report

Quoted By:

>>10849617
>>10847080

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