/sci/ - Science & Math » Thread #14323613

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brain tech

Anonymous Mon 21 Mar 20:44:11 2022 No.14323613 View Reply Original Report

Quoted By: >>14324214 >>14325472 >>14325485 >>14326363 >>14326859

wish we had some kind of neuroscience / neuroengineering general, but i get that the field is kind of boring. even elon/neuralink cant seem to make it interesting enough for normies.

pic related
>micro ecog
>2000 electrodes
>no craniotomy required
https://www.biorxiv.org/content/10.1101/2022.01.02.474656v1.full

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 21 Mar 2022 20:53:32 No.14323630 Report

Quoted By:

Déjà vu

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 21 Mar 2022 21:39:30 No.14323757 Report

Quoted By: >>14323768 >>14323822 >>14324175

musks coomalink is NGMI and interfacing with the brain directly is downright idiotic when the spinal cord exists

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 21 Mar 2022 21:42:37 No.14323768 Report

Quoted By:

>>14323757
Oh yeah like spinal surgery is totally safe and reasonable for a consumer product which will be outdated in six months.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 21 Mar 2022 22:03:22 No.14323822 Report

Quoted By: >>14323852

>>14323757
idk if neuralink will make it but it's been a boon to the field
>lots of funding pouring in now for startups
>brain sewing machine
>more talent in the field
>more public interest in the field

i heard the company is a shitshow tho but hopefully they can stick around because it's bringing benefits

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 21 Mar 2022 22:19:02 No.14323852 Report

Quoted By: >>14323868

>>14323822
I'm less hopeful. There are lots of scammy startups offering mind uploading type services but that doesn't increase funding to legitimate neuroscience research. If anything it might delay actual efforts to develop such technology by creating the impression it's total fantasy. See the slow but recent progress in vitrification ("real" cryogenics).

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 21 Mar 2022 22:29:57 No.14323868 Report

Quoted By: >>14323872

>>14323852
what? neuralink isnt involved in mind uploading

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 21 Mar 2022 22:32:09 No.14323872 Report

Quoted By:

>>14323868
I was giving examples of other industries in which flashy bullshit startups may actually damage long term investment prospects.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 22 Mar 2022 01:01:50 No.14324175 Report

Quoted By:

>>14323757
You make a good point, but the current use case of Neuralink is to gather neural measurements for machine learning, not interface with the brain.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 22 Mar 2022 01:21:28 No.14324214 Report

Quoted By: >>14324780

>>14323613
Doesn't seem all that useful desu. Really high electrode density is basically a meme until longevity/invasiveness issues are solved, and ECOG just isn't that useful anyway (there are reasons why the Utah array is preferred at the moment outside of epilepsy diagnosis).

It looks like they're trying to stimulate as well, and as someone who actively does research in the neuromodulation field I can confidently say invasive approaches will be close to obsolete in 5-10 years (especially anything that isn't wireless).

This field could be flipped on its head overnight with some clever innovations, and there are tons of unexplored areas in biophysics that may source those tricks.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 22 Mar 2022 06:25:40 No.14324780 Report

Quoted By: >>14327222

>>14324214
>It looks like they're trying to stimulate as well, and as someone who actively does research in the neuromodulation field I can confidently say invasive approaches will be close to obsolete in 5-10 years (especially anything that isn't wireless).
how? it doesnt seem likely that a noninvasive device would beat something that is so close to the cortex.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 22 Mar 2022 13:21:42 No.14325472 Report

Quoted By: >>14326659

>>14323613
the tech we have now isn't good enough to fulfill what elon musk wants and most of the smart people who can innovate are in tech/finance
most fields for neuroscience don't pay well because nothing of note is produced from them and the people in it are kind of retarded

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 22 Mar 2022 13:24:16 No.14325485 Report

Quoted By: >>14326868

>>14323613
>install an icuck brain tracking device, goy
No, thanks, NSA.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 22 Mar 2022 18:52:43 No.14326363 Report

Quoted By:

>>14323613
>>minimally invasive
trash

Anonymous

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Anonymous Tue 22 Mar 2022 20:19:14 No.14326619 Report

Quoted By: >>14326658

directional electrodes are the future
>helps overcome difficulties with local field potentials
>allows for more flexibility when implanting the electrodes
>can adjust if the neurons start to habituate against the electrodes

Anonymous

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Anonymous Tue 22 Mar 2022 20:25:40 No.14326640 Report

Quoted By:

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 22 Mar 2022 20:29:32 No.14326658 Report

Quoted By: >>14326678 >>14327222

>>14326619
>directional electrode
so... a diode?

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 22 Mar 2022 20:29:59 No.14326659 Report

Quoted By:

>>14325472
>most fields for neuroscience don't pay well because nothing of note is produced from them
yeah im sure you dont get paid as much as some tech/finance jobs but you can probably make six figs at places like boston scientific, abbott, medtronic, etc. not sure about neuralink, i heard they dont pay alot compared to other places. in any case those places make awesome implants and tools to support them. most people dont know though. probably dont care either until they get old and start having medical issues.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 22 Mar 2022 20:35:33 No.14326678 Report

Quoted By:

>>14326658
idk. electrode is the catchall term for the device that goes into nervous tissue. they get kind of complex these days.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 22 Mar 2022 21:36:32 No.14326859 Report

Quoted By: >>14327222

>>14323613
>represents all the data with little graphs
What nonsense
Do we visualize camera data with a bunch of graphs for each pixel on the CCD? No we just view the image. Brain science would move 10x faster if they realized this.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 22 Mar 2022 21:38:48 No.14326868 Report

Quoted By:

>>14325485
Kek - this technology is the inevitable bugman evil disguised as utopia ending

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 23 Mar 2022 01:34:00 No.14327222 Report

Quoted By:

>>14324780
Ultrasound energy can be focused to sub-millimeter resolution, particularly if it doesn't have to pass through the skull. You can do some really cool stuff with lenses and beamforming. Then there's implanted wireless devices that can be on the scale of individual cells (~10 um), but usually you go larger because it's extremely difficult to have that much surgical precision and you run into drift issues.

>>14326658
No...not even close. These directional electrodes are still biphasic. All they're doing is utilizing complex anode/cathode configurations to steer the field.

>>14326859
First, most modern sensors are CMOS, not CCD. Second, we do exactly that for fluorescence microscopy timelapses. At the end of the day the purpose of that image was to show the raw data the device collections; showing you a 2D heatmap of the voltages at a particular point in time (equivalent to an image) wouldn't offer anything.

Anonymous

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Anonymous Wed 23 Mar 2022 05:54:33 No.14327591 Report

Quoted By: >>14327622

>For the First Time, a Completely Locked-In Patient Can Communicate, Thanks to a Brain Implant
https://www.technologynetworks.com/neuroscience/news/for-the-first-time-a-completely-locked-in-patient-can-communicate-thanks-to-brain-implant-359819

>cant move a muscle
>has to communicate by concentrating on changing the sound created by his brain neurons
>"The patient modulated neural firing rates based on auditory feedback and he used this strategy to select letters one at a time to form words and phrases to communicate his needs and experiences."

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 23 Mar 2022 06:23:30 No.14327622 Report

Quoted By:

>>14327591
the top comments on hacker news claims its "oujia board science"
https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30773013

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