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Submarines

Anonymous Tue 22 Feb 12:49:33 2022 No.14255483 View Reply Original Report

Quoted By: >>14255653 >>14255847 >>14260582 >>14261145 >>14261327

Does anyone know how they pump in cold water and pump out hot water to cool the interiors of submarines? (or heat them).
Any good diagrams greatly appreciated.
Trying to design an underwater data centre, and I would like to have a method of gathering the hot water to pipe it somewhere else...

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 22 Feb 2022 13:17:02 No.14255543 Report

Quoted By: >>14255557 >>14261145 >>14261327

seawater and piping. its a nightmare to work with.
even if you just dip radiators into saltwater, corrosion will fuck them sooner or later, all sorts of crap will grow on them and reduce efficiency... the problem you try to solve will be replaced by unending maintenance and countless man hours of expensive diving to clean the heat exchangers. submarines spend regularly time in dry docks to stay operational. you just want to drop your data center into the ocean and expect it to pay itself and be profitable. literally a pipe dream. the longest lasting underwater hab aquarius which is around since like 35 years has to spend $3 million annually just to keep the structural integrity going on that trash heap. it isnt even that complex. what you still need is a 3 phase connection to the power grid, undersea cable connection to the web, battery banks, emergency diesel generators. at this point its easier to just buy an old nuclear powered soviet typhoon class submarine and use that :p

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 22 Feb 2022 13:20:15 No.14255557 Report

Quoted By:

>>14255543
Nope. Project Natick achieved it already. Essentially they just accepted that every 5 years they have to change the parts and don't bother performing maintenance beyond that.
Any way really the only thing I'm interested in is diagrams of how the heating/cooling systems work, thanks :)

Anonymous

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Anonymous Tue 22 Feb 2022 13:59:30 No.14255653 Report

Quoted By: >>14255660

>>14255483
>pump in cold water and pump out hot water to cool the interiors of submarines?
with a pump
>Trying to design an underwater data centre
how does a u-boat help? those are fundamentally different things
>I would like to have a method of gathering the hot water to pipe it
your question is unclear
figure out what you actually want first

the principle of cooling with water is very straigthforward, what exactly is there to not understand
in pic its the water "cooling" the heat exchanger

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 22 Feb 2022 14:01:42 No.14255660 Report

Quoted By: >>14255675 >>14255680 >>14262514

>>14255653
I want the hot water coming from the data centre to gather in a pool that I can use as a public amenity. I don't want the hot water to just disipate into the surrounding cold, ocean water. Do you follow me?

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 22 Feb 2022 14:09:28 No.14255675 Report

Quoted By: >>14255782

>>14255660
then put a pipe on your inlet? and a barrier on the outer boundary of desired used slutty shit water

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 22 Feb 2022 14:12:56 No.14255680 Report

Quoted By:

>>14255660
also, im no expert, but gravity is still a thing, so inlet on top and outlet on bottom, to reduce pump strain and its effects, in subs more noise, in datasink more heat..
dont tell anyone, but i snuck into this board. im actually dumb

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 22 Feb 2022 15:01:55 No.14255782 Report

Quoted By:

>>14255675
Ok but I'm STUPID.

Anonymous

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Anonymous Tue 22 Feb 2022 15:33:11 No.14255847 Report

Quoted By: >>14257081

>>14255483
>Trying to design an underwater data centre
from what I've read, passive cooling is more than sufficient

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 22 Feb 2022 22:32:58 No.14257081 Report

Quoted By: >>14261162

>>14255847
The thing is - I would like to passively cool it BUT I would like to utilise the hot water instead of just letting it get lost into the ocean

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 24 Feb 2022 06:49:31 No.14260582 Report

Quoted By: >>14261008

>>14255483

USN sub vet here. Was a nuc machinist mate/ELT.

>Does anyone know how they pump in cold water and pump out hot water to cool the interiors of submarines? (or heat them).
Any good diagrams greatly appreciated.

Cold water is pumped on and off for a variety of reasons: propulsion, maintaining trim and list, shooting literal shit overboard, etc. In the case of bringing on cool water, you simply have a big ass pump that brings in seawater, passes it through a heat exchanger or data center cooling medium, and pump the now hotter seawater overboard or to other systems requiring higher temperature water.

What do you need specifically for your design?

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 24 Feb 2022 13:50:02 No.14261008 Report

Quoted By: >>14261162 >>14262230

>>14260582
The heat exchanger... What are the mediums of heat transfer within it? Is it regular water to seawater? or is it oil to seawater? Why?

What I really want specifically for my design would be a way that the hot water could be pumped into a sort of cooling pond somewhere else. Another way to think about it would be that the hot water is pumped away and used to heat a public pool.

Does it require a lot of energy to pump water like that? I can only justify my design if I can say that it's more energy efficient than a traditional air conditioning system. Ideally it's passively cooled.

Hope that makes sense and thanks for your help

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 24 Feb 2022 15:42:13 No.14261145 Report

Quoted By:

>>14255543

All of the coolant for the datacenter will be in a closed system. The only thing exposed to the seawater will be big dumb dirty heatsink heat exchangers that they can easily swap out with a ROV by simply bolting it on and off, and the hull. The heat exchangers will either be made from some stupidly fancy superalloy or they will be very cheap and generic aluminium and magnesium, which can also act as anodes for galvanic protection.

The old corroded and dirty heat exchanger will be thrown in the recycling.

>>14255483
>Trying to design an underwater data centre,

lol, cute

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 24 Feb 2022 15:51:06 No.14261162 Report

Quoted By: >>14261317

>>14257081
>I would like to utilise the hot water instead

You do NOT want to utilise hot, highly electrolytic, water for anything.

>>14261008
>a sort of cooling pond somewhere else.

How far away are you talking? Why?

If you want to capture the waste heat, to heat homes for instance, you wouldn't put the datacenter in the sea. Because that's fucking retarded. You would keep the datacenter near the homes and pump hot FRESH water directly to them. The pipes need to be insulated too.

>Does it require a lot of energy to pump water like that? I can only justify my design if I can say that it's more energy efficient than a traditional air conditioning system.

Yes, pumping water requires energy.

It also has to be more efficient than heat pumps, an existing alternative to air conditioners

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heat_pump

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 24 Feb 2022 18:01:58 No.14261317 Report

Quoted By: >>14261331 >>14261335 >>14262714

>>14261162
Hmm...
So the idea is that if the data centres are off shore by a few hundred metres, so they could act as an artificial reef.
This and them being cooled by the seawater is probably already enough for my project on its own. But the initial idea was that they are off shore from an abandoned outdoor pool nearby to me. If the hot water they produce could be pumped to keep one of the pools warm that'd be pretty nifty too.
However, given the technical difficulties with pumping the hot water etc etc, I might just re-imagine the data centres as just an artifical reef. If they just stop the abandoned outdoor pool area from further coastal erosion (it currently gets rekt) then that's still a pretty sweet solution.
I'm basing my design off the already successful Project Natick by Microsoft btw, and not then I'll just modify as needed. Microsoft seemed pretty happy with it AND they tried to file a patent for data centres as artifical reefs so that gives me some confidence that it might actually not be so far-fetched.
Appreciate your help thus far - keep it coming.
There is now way they could just produce hot regular sea water? The system requires it be this "hot, highly electrolytic water"? (does that just mean salty??)

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 24 Feb 2022 18:15:52 No.14261327 Report

Quoted By: >>14261367

>>14255483
>>14255543
Hasn't Microsoft "solved" this problem by using an internal cooling solution that just radiates heat into the surrounding seawater rather than relying on pumped seawater? Also, they stick the data centers in very cold waters.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 24 Feb 2022 18:18:21 No.14261331 Report

Quoted By: >>14261367 >>14261371

>>14261317
>so they could act as an artificial reef.
Sadly anon, you have to pull them up every few years to do maintenance, that's not exactly healthy for anything living on it.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 24 Feb 2022 18:19:23 No.14261335 Report

Quoted By: >>14261367

>>14261317
Hot salty water is very corrosive

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 24 Feb 2022 18:39:06 No.14261367 Report

Quoted By:

>>14261327
Yeah they did it off the Orkney Islands in Scotland. The water where I am would be similarly cold year round. The depth they went to might be an issue but... as far as I understand it, it's more about water being an excellent conductor of heat - not the the temperature of the water.
>>14261331
This is true and I'm not really sure what the solution to that would be. Perhaps it'd have to be done like crop rotation where only one is removed to be maintained at any given time or something. Or maybe it could be done within certain times of the year when it's least likely to bother marine life. Hard to say on this - definitely a hitch.
>>14261335
I just want a hot outdoor swimming pool. I suppose if you think that would destroy even the pipe used to transport it to the pool, indeed, that's an issue.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 24 Feb 2022 18:40:32 No.14261371 Report

Quoted By:

>>14261331
I mean, in theory if the servers inside are heating the air within the vessel, and the vessel is made of a metal, the heat from the air will just go into the metal and then out into the surrounding water right?

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 24 Feb 2022 23:53:49 No.14261853 Report

Quoted By:

>Trying to design an underwater data centre

Electronics degrade way more often than you would expect. Disks in disk arays die, RAM get defective, etc. Around 2000 year there was issue with electrolytic capacitors (long saga, when engineer stole recipe of electrolytic from japanese company to taiwanese, and after that it was stolen to chinese, and there was "bug" in recipe, so capacitors had much lower lifespan). Idea is, that to put servers underwater for some extended time is kinda risky business. For Microsoft, for their research purposes it might not affect much if say 30% of their cluster went offline of various reasons. But if you have commercial datacenter, and you cannot repair 10k worth server with 200$ worth spare part because scheduled maintenance window is not arrived yet, it will significantly affects your profitability.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 25 Feb 2022 04:33:46 No.14262230 Report

Quoted By:

>>14261008
>The heat exchanger... What are the mediums of heat transfer within it? Is it regular water to seawater? or is it oil to seawater? Why?

There are literally hundreds of different systems on every class of submarine, old or new. And all of these systems ultimately use seawater as the biggest heat sink. Some cooling systems act as a medium between seawater and the heat loads, so that you don't have too many systems for a given load. This saves costs in heat exchangers, pumps, piping, etc. as well as saving space. Remember, you're on a submarine and shit is cramped. I mean every single inch of space on a submarine has some sort of purpose, inefficiency and uselessness isn't allowed in design. On my old sub, I don't know where you would fit even the tiniest condom machine in the engineroom.

>What I really want specifically for my design would be a way that the hot water could be pumped into a sort of cooling pond somewhere else. Another way to think about it would be that the hot water is pumped away and used to heat a public pool.

Well it would be useful to know where you are right now in your design in the system, what other systems have already been designed, what kind of requirements there are for heat transfer, etc. For submarines, virtually all parameters for any engineering system all starts with the reactor/propulsion plant. Your biggest heat sink is seawater pumped on and some ambient losses from cooling with the water in contact with the hull of the ship. Biggest heat source is obviously going to be a reactor, but if you're looking at the propulsion plant or a conventional diesel boat, your heat source are the steam systems. All other cooling and auxiliary systems ultimately tap off from smaller and smaller systems connected to these bigger ones. Hope that helps paint a bigger picture.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 25 Feb 2022 10:36:51 No.14262514 Report

Quoted By:

>>14255660
Lol

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 25 Feb 2022 14:34:05 No.14262714 Report

Quoted By:

>>14261317
You are obsessed with using sea water for some reason.

If someone wants to move heat via pipes it is done in a closed system and they use "coolant" i.e. a circuit of pipes sealed from the outside world and filled with a fluid that can hold a lot of heat.

For example, the coolant for your car is a mix of water and propylene glycol. The water is used because it can soak up a lot of heat, the glycol is used to broaden the operating temperatures (antifreeze) and for reducing the corrosion that would be caused by pure water.

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