/sci/ - Science & Math » Thread #14211505

225KiB, 798x800, Stephen_Jay_Gould.jpg

View Same Google iqdb SauceNAO

Anonymous Thu 10 Feb 17:53:51 2022 No.14211505 View Reply Original Report

Quoted By: >>14211752 >>14211773 >>14212233 >>14212463 >>14212470 >>14212491 >>14212952 >>14213270 >>14217215 >>14219613

> Evolution has no purpose
> Matter is the ground of all existance
> Evolution is not a gradual process
> Evolution has no direction
Why does no one else talk about Evolution like this? Is it just too spooky?

Anonymous

View Same Google iqdb SauceNAO henry winkler.jpg, 119KiB, 1248x1668

Anonymous Thu 10 Feb 2022 18:00:13 No.14211537 Report

Quoted By:

>le popsci meme scientist
durrrrr i know he is smart and important cause he is from harvard

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 10 Feb 2022 18:01:42 No.14211547 Report

Quoted By: >>14211665 >>14211718 >>14212352

most don't understand evolution and the time frames involved and most have false preconceptions based on the language.
they say a single animal evolves, or an organism adapts. both concepts are wrong, many don't understand this and why this is wrong.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 10 Feb 2022 18:18:36 No.14211665 Report

Quoted By: >>14211678 >>14211707 >>14212216 >>14212217 >>14212427 >>14212920

>>14211547
exactly
there are literally tens of millions of retards out there talking about how humans have "evolved" to consume dead animal remains, despite having a physiology that literally evolved over tens of millions of years to specialize on fruit and tender leaves
people are absolutely clueless about evolutionary biology in general
to put in the terms of Carl Linnaeus, the legendary naturalist and biologist who is known as the father of the modern taxonomic system:
>«To say that humans have the anatomical structure of an omnivore is an egregiously inaccurate statement. Man's structure, internal and external compared with that of the other animals, shows that fruit and succulent vegetables are his natural food.»

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 10 Feb 2022 18:21:04 No.14211678 Report

Quoted By: >>14211718

>>14211665
>Carl Linnaeus
yeah, nah. we're more scientifically advanced than the time that produced carl linnaeus so i'm not gonna bother with his opinions

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 10 Feb 2022 18:23:17 No.14211707 Report

Quoted By:

>>14211665
>"I don't like the facts of reality, so nah"
hilarious
Linnaeus just pointed to the result of tens of millions of years of evolution
any person who weren't actively deluding themselves could've done so for the past tens of thousands of years

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 10 Feb 2022 18:24:20 No.14211718 Report

Quoted By: >>14211726

>>14211678
you're literally suffering from the exact type of false preconceptions this anon is pointing out: >>14211547

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 10 Feb 2022 18:26:04 No.14211726 Report

Quoted By: >>14211745

>>14211718
literally how

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 10 Feb 2022 18:29:04 No.14211745 Report

Quoted By: >>14211762

>>14211726
you think that Carl Linnaeus 250 years ago couldn't have pointed out facts about human physiology which have been the same for at least ~250,000 years, and which evolved over tens of millions of years
that means you either don't understand how evolution works, or you are in denial because you have a psychological need to defend certain culturally ingrained habits that are not in alignment with human physiology (yes, I'm referring to the consumption of dead animal remains and other animal products)

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 10 Feb 2022 18:30:31 No.14211752 Report

Quoted By:

>>14211505
>Evolution has no purpose
true
>Matter is the ground of all existance
literally what?
>Evolution is not a gradual process
yes it is lmao
>Evolution has no direction
uh sure

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 10 Feb 2022 18:31:36 No.14211762 Report

Quoted By: >>14211767

>>14211745
linnaeus didn't know any of this lmao what are you smoking
we know more than he did, so his opinion on the matter can be disregarded point blank

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 10 Feb 2022 18:32:50 No.14211767 Report

Quoted By: >>14211780

>>14211762
>250 years ago
>he didn't know something that has been true for hundreds of thousands of years about a structure that took tens of millions of years to evolve
peak denial

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 10 Feb 2022 18:33:36 No.14211773 Report

Quoted By:

>>14211505
>Stephen Jay Gould
Isn't that the jew who thinks all races are equal and if you disagree then you're a nazi?

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 10 Feb 2022 18:35:06 No.14211780 Report

Quoted By:

>>14211767
>linnaeus had better scientific method than the combined effort of archaeology, biology, chemistry, biochemistry and genetics of 250 years combined
this is a reminder to take your meds

Anonymous

View Same Google iqdb SauceNAO 1613210980128.jpg, 22KiB, 251x242

Anonymous Thu 10 Feb 2022 20:01:19 No.14212216 Report

Quoted By:

>>14211665
>humans evolved to eat modern vegetables

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 10 Feb 2022 20:02:43 No.14212217 Report

Quoted By:

>>14211665
Wash your cunt, whore.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 10 Feb 2022 20:04:32 No.14212233 Report

Quoted By: >>14212427

>>14211505
What do you mean? This is all garden variety pop-soi dogma that everyone is socially expected to believe.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 10 Feb 2022 20:17:48 No.14212352 Report

Quoted By: >>14212427 >>14212824

>>14211547
Always funny how people who claim others "just don't understand" never can explain it themselves.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 10 Feb 2022 20:31:01 No.14212427 Report

Quoted By: >>14212445 >>14213255

>>14212352
The basic idea is that evolution isn't a "process" insofar as it has no set beginning and end. Chimps didn't lose their tails, rather in each generation there was a selective pressure towards shorter tails.
Losing their tails was just a physical consequence of this selective pressure, not some sort of procedure or purpose, and they could regain their tails if an opposing pressure existed.
Furthermore, chimps didn't evolve at all. Individual organisms that we would collectively call chimps (or an ancestor species) were selected from, not the species as a whole
So giraffes didn't evolve long necks, humans didn't evolve to be smarter or dumber, etc.
>>14212233
Most faggots believe in some sort of directional evolution a la pokemon, or else believe in a purpose to evolution like this faggot >>14211665

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 10 Feb 2022 20:34:19 No.14212445 Report

Quoted By: >>14212462

>>14212427
Most faggots believe what you believe. Such is the nature of faggots and their faggot beliefs.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 10 Feb 2022 20:36:49 No.14212462 Report

Quoted By: >>14212499

>>14212445
So what is your process and the mechanics of it?

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 10 Feb 2022 20:36:56 No.14212463 Report

Quoted By:

>>14211505
>No purpose
Perpetuation of itself, survival
>No direction
Trends towards complexity and specialization of niches. That is direction.

Anonymous

View Same Google iqdb SauceNAO 7966D120-4DD5-499D-80F0-E19E8216 (...).png, 199KiB, 941x887

Anonymous Thu 10 Feb 2022 20:37:47 No.14212470 Report

Quoted By:

>>14211505
That’s... just basic evolution? Seems pretty standard to me. What’s spooky or unusual here?

Anonymous

View Same Google iqdb SauceNAO DC5DBFB8-91C7-4D5D-82D9-2420E2BE (...).gif, 2MiB, 360x270

Anonymous Thu 10 Feb 2022 20:39:21 No.14212481 Report

Quoted By:

Evolution is random walk.
No further explanation needed.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 10 Feb 2022 20:41:03 No.14212491 Report

Quoted By:

>>14211505
>He thinks evolution is scary
Literally how?

Anonymous

View Same Google iqdb SauceNAO 325234.png, 556KiB, 2753x2718

Anonymous Thu 10 Feb 2022 20:41:43 No.14212499 Report

Quoted By: >>14212576 >>14212634

>>14212462
Evolution is intelligently directed. Mutation is not random, but controlled by a self-rewriting, self-perfecting program encoded in the DNA itself. There is a purpose but it is inaccessible to the midwiot hordes.

Anonymous

View Same Google iqdb SauceNAO DFDFFAB2-7794-4E33-BB52-8C0D181C (...).gif, 1MiB, 498x288

Anonymous Thu 10 Feb 2022 20:49:59 No.14212576 Report

Quoted By:

>>14212499
the purpose is to become stronger than god

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 10 Feb 2022 20:58:22 No.14212634 Report

Quoted By: >>14212691

>>14212499
>...self-rewriting, self-perfecting program encoded in the DNA itself.

So what would the explanation of mutations that lead to various diseases based on your mechanisms? Things like Huntington's Disease.

Also, what about the historical ancestry in DNA? There are shared endogenous retroviruses in all humans that are shared with great apes and other mammals. The interesting aspect is that these insertions in our DNA have both locations and frequency which would be expected through natural evolution (more shared in chimpanzees than bonobos etc.).

What would your explanation be for random pieces of virus DNA maintained over incredible timespans be evidence of intelligent direction?

Also, what would be the direction of human's and various apes having "broken" genes for vitamin C creation despite having the alleles for it?

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 10 Feb 2022 21:04:50 No.14212691 Report

Quoted By: >>14212812

>>14212634
>So what would the explanation of mutations that lead to various diseases based on your mechanisms?
Environmental factors, imperfections in the heuristics driving the program, some degree of intentional randomness not paying off in specific instances.

>There are shared endogenous retroviruses in all humans that are shared with great apes and other mammals.
So?

>What would your explanation be for random pieces of virus DNA maintained over incredible timespans be evidence of intelligent direction?
Absence of a mechanism for removing them. This is all moot and unrelated to my proposition.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 10 Feb 2022 21:21:52 No.14212812 Report

Quoted By: >>14212822

>>14212691
>intentional randomness not paying off in specific instances.

How would you discern from intentional randomness vs. unintended randomness? Are there any specific alleles, genes, or phenotypes that you feel best evidence what you are asserting?

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 10 Feb 2022 21:23:57 No.14212822 Report

Quoted By: >>14212845

>>14212812
>How would you discern from intentional randomness vs. unintended randomness?
You don't. If it's not protected against, it's intentional.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 10 Feb 2022 21:24:15 No.14212824 Report

Quoted By:

>>14212352
it's even more funny that those that don't even understand the basics have the loudest opinions about it

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 10 Feb 2022 21:26:26 No.14212845 Report

Quoted By: >>14212885

>>14212822
>You don't. If it's not protected against, it's intentional.

So at the end of the day you are saying that you choosing to believe? Essentially this is taking a leap of faith as you have no way to show whether or not there is direction? Am I missing something?

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 10 Feb 2022 21:31:45 No.14212885 Report

Quoted By: >>14212961

>>14212845
We already know some mutations are not random, we already know this is controlled by DNA, and most intelligent people agree that the random mutation fairytale is implausible.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 10 Feb 2022 21:36:47 No.14212920 Report

Quoted By:

>>14211665
You’re that same guy who loses his shit on /x/ all the time, aren’t you?
Is this really all you do all day? Looking for any reason to rate about veganism?

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 10 Feb 2022 21:43:30 No.14212952 Report

Quoted By:

>>14211505
>> Evolution has no direction
>Why does no one else talk about Evolution like this?
Because evolution does have a direction.
Look at what viruses do to cells. What cells do to a body. What humans try to do to their planet.
The goal of evolution, is adaptation. And taking control over your environment is the ultimate form of adaptation.
Our environment is our mind.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 10 Feb 2022 21:45:07 No.14212961 Report

Quoted By: >>14212995

>>14212885
>We already know some mutations are not random
Which mutations are you referring to specifically?

>...most intelligent people agree...
This is fallacious. Whether or not people agree is meaningless. Even authority and intellect is independent of the point being argued.

So back to evidence. What evidence would you consider to be disconfirming of your hypothesis? What evidence would change your position?

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 10 Feb 2022 21:50:32 No.14212995 Report

Quoted By: >>14213007

>>14212961
>Which mutations are you referring to specifically?
I'm not referring to any mutations specifically. I'm referring to the fact that this sort of mechanism is known to exist. e.g.:
"Mutation bias reflects natural selection in Arabidopsis thaliana"

>m-m-muh meme fallacies
No such thing, midwit.

>So back to evidence.
It was revealed to me in a dream once.

>What evidence would change your position?
When someone proves that the random mutation fairytale is plausible and/or fully decodes the genome and contradicts me.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 10 Feb 2022 21:52:47 No.14213007 Report

Quoted By: >>14213021

>>14212995
>When someone proves that the random mutation fairytale is plausible and/or fully decodes the genome and contradicts me.

Oh so you believe on effectively a religious faith. Why didn't you just say so and saved the entire trouble of arguing evidence?

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 10 Feb 2022 21:54:21 No.14213021 Report

Quoted By: >>14213070

>>14213007
Your random mutation fairytale is a religion, midwit.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 10 Feb 2022 22:03:33 No.14213070 Report

Quoted By: >>14213088

>>14213021
Just to put this in perspective the paucity of your presentation. If someone came up to you and was on the fence or didn't know anything about evolution, what would you tell them to show that your contention was superior? What does your belief explain better? By what mechanism does it more accurately predict evidence?

>No such thing, midwit.
Fallacies are easy to explain. You stated "most intelligent people agree." This actually has no relationship to what is being argued. Whether something is popular or believed by authorities has no bearing on any given point. Most dietitians believe that diets with hundreds of grams of carbohydrates are good for diabetes, sure as hell doesn't mean it is right. So if you bring something up that can't draw a straight line to the actual point being argued, it is fallacious.

There, at least you learned something today.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 10 Feb 2022 22:07:38 No.14213088 Report

Quoted By: >>14213124

>>14213070
>If someone came up to you and was on the fence or didn't know anything about evolution, what would you tell them to show that your contention was superior?
Nothing. They should come back when they already understand why the random mutation fairytale is absurd to discuss newer findings and their implications.

>You stated "most intelligent people agree." This actually has no relationship to what is being argued.
So what? What's the "fallacy", nigger?

>Whether something is popular or believed by authorities has no bearing on any given point
It does. Sorry. Cope. You can reliably filter concepts that are almost universally agreed upon by midwits, but heavily questioned by high IQ people without giving it a second thought.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 10 Feb 2022 22:14:45 No.14213124 Report

Quoted By: >>14213166 >>14213315

>>14213088
>newer findings and their implications
What newer findings?

>What's the "fallacy", nigger?
Ad populum and ad verecundiam. You were appealing to both popularity and authority.

>heavily questioned by high IQ people without giving it a second thought
Do you have examples of people who agree with your position? Considering that the the members of the various international Academies of Sciences generally hold 130+ IQ and the vast majority agree with the standard definitions of evolution, would that not put you in the minority position of intelligent people, making you the midwit?

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 10 Feb 2022 22:23:39 No.14213166 Report

Quoted By:

>>14213124
>What newer findings?
Stuff like "Mutation bias reflects natural selection in Arabidopsis thaliana". This is fairy recent, and it's the final piece of the puzzle. We've known for a while now that non-coding DNA supports complex control structures with multiple levels of indirection to control transcription, that this is a mechanism that accepts inputs from the environment, that genetic algorithms are a viable general-purpose approach for solving problems on a level of complexity that is unassailable tfor the human intellect, so why wouldn't DNA develop heuristics to improve its own mutation mechanisms in exactly the same way smoothbrains insist it solves other complex problems? I've suspected that this is possible for years, and now we have evidence of a mechanism that would enable it, and evidence that it happens at least to some extent. Just a question of time now to uncover the extent. It's over for your dogma.

>Ad populum and ad verecundiam
No such thing. You have not, and will not, be able to explain how any such fallacy is being committed.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 10 Feb 2022 22:45:36 No.14213255 Report

Quoted By:

>>14212427
>Most faggots believe in some sort of directional evolution a la pokemon
This is some Reddit-tier self-aggrandizement, my midwit friend. You are obsessed with kicking low-hanging fruit to the ground.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 10 Feb 2022 22:47:44 No.14213264 Report

Quoted By:

You are worthless chemical scum. Get quadruple-vaxed. Believe all women. Build back better. Go Team Science.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 10 Feb 2022 22:48:48 No.14213270 Report

Quoted By: >>14213276

>>14211505
Stephen Gould was a retard marxist

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 10 Feb 2022 22:50:16 No.14213276 Report

Quoted By:

>>14213270
Who literally falsified data on cranium size because he didn't want le ebul racists to find out there actually pretty fucking big difference in cranial volumes by race.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 10 Feb 2022 22:57:56 No.14213315 Report

Quoted By:

>>14213124
I read what scientists in various fields in biology publish and they do not agree, no what they do is adamantly swear over and over again to believe in the evolution theory as soon they find the need to approach it.
It's coercion and a will to stay alive in this business, not agreement.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 11 Feb 2022 02:29:39 No.14214972 Report

Quoted By: >>14216871 >>14217219 >>14217312

In the disgusting cesspit of 4chan /sci/ you can find people who believe every sort of nonsense in all the world, but only a few that believe in established scientific theories such as evolution. After all, it is far more edgy to be outside the 'consensus' and edgy posting is all that drives this place.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 11 Feb 2022 10:54:48 No.14216871 Report

Quoted By:

>>14214972
>only a few that believe in established scientific theories such as evolution
That's pretty rare. It's the global warming and covid vax that are attacked all the time.

Anonymous

View Same Google iqdb SauceNAO file.png, 154KiB, 598x785

Anonymous Fri 11 Feb 2022 13:22:38 No.14217215 Report

Quoted By:

>>14211505
>humans can mate with monkeys
Gould truly was ahead of our time huh

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 11 Feb 2022 13:23:29 No.14217219 Report

Quoted By:

>>14214972
Why are you reposting your tweets here?

Anonymous

View Same Google iqdb SauceNAO 1604827593418.jpg, 114KiB, 888x500

Anonymous Fri 11 Feb 2022 14:13:25 No.14217312 Report

Quoted By:

>>14214972
>established scientific theories such as evolution
Imagine being this indoctrinated

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 12 Feb 2022 03:08:14 No.14219613 Report

Quoted By:

>>14211505
1, 2, and 4 are obvious. 3 is unproven and vague. Maybe evolution isn't always gradual. Does that mean it isn't gradual at all?

Capcode	All Only User Posts Only Moderator Posts Only Admin Posts Only Developer Posts
Show Posts	All Only With Images Only Without Images
Deleted Posts	All Only Deleted Posts Only Non-Deleted Posts
Ghost Posts	All Only Ghost Posts Only Non-Ghost Posts
Post Type	All Only Sticky Threads Only Opening Posts Only Reply Posts
Results	All Grouped By Threads
Order	Latest Posts First Oldest Posts First

Your latest searches