/sci/ - Science & Math » Thread #14165867

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Anonymous Sun 30 Jan 06:33:24 2022 No.14165867 View Reply Original Report

Quoted By: >>14165875 >>14165907 >>14165913 >>14165971 >>14166019 >>14167507 >>14167608 >>14167665 >>14167722 >>14167774 >>14167824 >>14168504 >>14168796 >>14168832 >>14169283 >>14170001 >>14170704

>Study computer science in 1982
Get a free bachelor's in math because most of the courses overlap with each other
>Study computer science in 2002
Take Calc I, Calc II, Linear algebra, differential equations and discreet math at a bare minimum
>Study computer science in 2022
Bachelor's of science requires Calc 1 and discreet math, bachelor's of arts requires no math and is more popular than the bachelor's of science

Why is this? Why is computer science distancing itself from math in the academic world?

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 30 Jan 2022 06:40:57 No.14165875 Report

Quoted By: >>14168233 >>14169994

>>14165867
They need to make Software Engineering as a separate degree more common

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 30 Jan 2022 07:03:54 No.14165907 Report

Quoted By:

>>14165867
quickly producing software engineers/low tier devs for retard products instead of an emphasis on the theoretical and foundational parts of the field. Education was never the goal.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 30 Jan 2022 07:06:14 No.14165913 Report

Quoted By: >>14169066

>>14165867
>University wants money from CS students
>CS students who only took on the major because of SWE salaries and CS students who "just wanna make video games man" can't pass anything beyond first year calculus
>University drops all math requirements
>Profit

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 30 Jan 2022 07:10:14 No.14165920 Report

Quoted By: >>14165942

DEI

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 30 Jan 2022 07:25:01 No.14165942 Report

Quoted By:

>>14165920
>Implying any class after Java 1 isn't 95% white and paljeet males

Anonymous

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Anonymous Sun 30 Jan 2022 07:40:39 No.14165971 Report

Quoted By: >>14167688

>>14165867
>Why is this? Why is computer science distancing itself from math in the academic world?
Why, indeed.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 30 Jan 2022 08:09:07 No.14166019 Report

Quoted By: >>14168836

>>14165867
CS degrees are desirable to peons who believe it will get them a job with minimal effort.

Universities desire the money of peons.

Peons flunk out of the program and the universities don't get their money if there's too many math requirements.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 30 Jan 2022 19:32:10 No.14167507 Report

Quoted By: >>14167554

>>14165867
because having a compsci degree is a glorified bootcamp cert
you don't use vector calculus or eigenvalues on the job lmfao

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 30 Jan 2022 19:48:17 No.14167554 Report

Quoted By: >>14168848

>>14167507
Isn't linear algebra important if you work with graphics?

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 30 Jan 2022 19:54:53 No.14167578 Report

Quoted By: >>14167582

computer science was a spin off pure mathematics. first generations had great ambitions and tried to put cs at par with physics and mathematics. 50 years later they cant sustain the lie anymore and they began to give up.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 30 Jan 2022 19:55:27 No.14167582 Report

Quoted By:

>>14167578
information geometry is the next big thing, trust me

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 30 Jan 2022 20:02:51 No.14167608 Report

Quoted By: >>14167645 >>14167686

>>14165867
>BA in Computer Science
>look it up
>it's real
do Americans really

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 30 Jan 2022 20:10:03 No.14167645 Report

Quoted By:

>>14167608
Yep, some schools will call it "bachelor's of computer science" or "bachelor's of applied science" to get around the fact that all the stem requirements were dropped

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 30 Jan 2022 20:14:41 No.14167665 Report

Quoted By:

>>14165867
(from europe) switched from cs to chem engineering this year. it's unfair how we have 4 times as much math in our first year as some cs students. even the difficulty much is higher here. while at cs was about intermediate, we have the same exams as the students who study math, same professor and assistent professor, too.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 30 Jan 2022 20:20:44 No.14167686 Report

Quoted By: >>14167694

>>14167608
Math is a liberal art

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 30 Jan 2022 20:21:18 No.14167688 Report

Quoted By: >>14167701

>>14165971
Bill Gates is actually pretty good at math, he took Math 55 and published a couple of papers as an undergrad

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 30 Jan 2022 20:22:18 No.14167694 Report

Quoted By:

>>14167686
Sure at Oxbridge or Ivys

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 30 Jan 2022 20:23:24 No.14167701 Report

Quoted By: >>14167801 >>14168387

>>14167688
Aren't classes below a 100 level meant for retards who can't even pass college algebra?

Anonymous

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Anonymous Sun 30 Jan 2022 20:28:21 No.14167722 Report

Quoted By: >>14167791

>>14165867
>discreet math
Not sure if ESL or just retarded.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 30 Jan 2022 20:35:22 No.14167753 Report

Quoted By:

I went in a CS university thinking I'll do math.
Turns out more around half of the courses I will take is codemonkey shit.
Am I fucked?
What can I do? I can take quite a few math courses from the math department of the uni. Should I do this and then hope I can go for a more math heavy master's/phd or something?

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 30 Jan 2022 20:40:57 No.14167774 Report

Quoted By:

>>14165867
In BSc comp sci now. Took same classes as 2002 list. They're required.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 30 Jan 2022 20:43:59 No.14167791 Report

Quoted By:

>>14167722
Both desu

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 30 Jan 2022 20:46:14 No.14167801 Report

Quoted By:

>>14167701
Math 55 is one of the hardest undergrad maths courses in the US I believe.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 30 Jan 2022 20:51:31 No.14167824 Report

Quoted By: >>14169289

>>14165867
Because there's a lot more work in the field now. Most fundamental shit has been accomplished and if you really want to get into it, you have to be going for a graduate degree at a minimum anyway.

Believe it or not, when you're working it's pretty important to know some of the less 'mathematical', more systematic thinking since you're working in large groups on large projects that aren't really mathematically complex. I don't know what else to tell you really, but math studies are typically pretty antisocial and rarely collaborative. You can't survive long in the CS world like that. The field is dug deep into quick and seemless collaborative efforts.

Anyway, if you want to go hard into academia, it ain't difficult to pick up a bachelor's in math.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 30 Jan 2022 22:10:25 No.14168089 Report

Quoted By:

80s CS is today's Computational mathematics.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 30 Jan 2022 22:52:09 No.14168233 Report

Quoted By:

>>14165875
I think that is commonplace in Canada because the title "engineer" is legally protected. Someone with a computer science degree cannot legally call themselves an engineer in Canada. However, someone with a software engineering degree can call themselves an engineer once they receive their P.Eng designation.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 30 Jan 2022 23:25:49 No.14168387 Report

Quoted By:

>>14167701
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Math_55

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 30 Jan 2022 23:52:57 No.14168504 Report

Quoted By:

>>14165867
i also thought it was kind of weird.
i did chem E originally, and swapped to comp sci after 2 years. i'd already done like, 3 semesters of calculus and a semester of linear algebra.
but when i swapped to comp sci, they only required like 1 semester of calculus, maybe 2, and that was the extent of the math required.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 31 Jan 2022 01:17:18 No.14168783 Report

Quoted By: >>14172771

There are great advancements in 40 years. 40 years ago these topics are in their infancy and contain very little contents. Now there's a lot of things to teach about these topics.

network
operating system
database
security
computer graphics
AI
embedded system

Anonymous

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Anonymous Mon 31 Jan 2022 01:22:02 No.14168796 Report

Quoted By:

>>14165867
the term "computer science" is conflated with "knowing how to program to some degree".
combine that with
1) programming being literacy of the 21st century
2) information technologies turning people's brains into ADHD mush
3) college's being the new high school
4) today's identity politics being completely insane

it's clear: gotta lower the bar

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 31 Jan 2022 01:34:35 No.14168832 Report

Quoted By: >>14168876 >>14168882 >>14171310

>>14165867
Discrete math is cancer. You don't need it unless you want to do your own crypto.

Calculus is useless. You won't do a single integral or limit in your career.

Linear Algebra is Ok, but realistically you only need it for ML.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 31 Jan 2022 01:35:12 No.14168836 Report

Quoted By:

>>14166019
>CS degrees are desirable to peons who believe it will get them a job with minimal effort.
But it's true.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 31 Jan 2022 01:36:46 No.14168848 Report

Quoted By:

>>14167554
Knowing at least basic linear algebra is important if you want to work with anything that can be represented in terms of vector spaces, because you'll be stuck reinventing the wheel every time otherwise. Graphics is one area but anything involving datasets in general is full of applications for it.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 31 Jan 2022 01:47:37 No.14168876 Report

Quoted By:

>>14168832
t. codemonkey

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 31 Jan 2022 01:49:16 No.14168882 Report

Quoted By:

>>14168832
>Calculus is useless. You won't do a single integral or limit in your career.
>Linear Algebra is Ok, but realistically you only need it for ML.
fucking webdev thinking they know shit

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 31 Jan 2022 02:22:12 No.14168980 Report

Quoted By:

Realistically programming has evolved enough that the theory and engineering parts are almost completely separate now, or at least they can be separated. Programming for companies has become so streamlined and framework specific that they just teach you everything on the job anyways, and it'll just be some kind of rails development. Just like how engineering physics is a separate degree from engineering, CS is a separate degree from software engineering, it's the natural evolution from theory to application.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 31 Jan 2022 02:51:44 No.14169066 Report

Quoted By:

>>14165913
This, but for all difficult parts of all degrees.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 31 Jan 2022 04:11:52 No.14169283 Report

Quoted By:

>>14165867
Yes and no. Early CS education is very lacking because everyone and their mother wants a CS degree to get immediately into the hot fields right now, which are all related to CS in some shape or form, and schools stand to benefit making the CS degree as accessible as possible. On the other hand, the answer is no in the sense that any school in the top 30 US has hard upperclassmen classes, and so actually learning computer science worth a fuck is pretty difficult.

It really just comes down to your priorities. If you want mathematical CS, you'll have mathematical CS. If you don't, then universities will leave you alone and let you get a basic degree. You have to go out of your way to get a good version of a CS degree.
CS PhD is legit though.
>t. double majored in math and CS

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 31 Jan 2022 04:12:53 No.14169289 Report

Quoted By:

>>14167824
>You can't survive long in the CS world like that. The field is dug deep into quick and seemless collaborative efforts.
*the software world
the CS world and the software world are not the same.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 31 Jan 2022 11:16:43 No.14169994 Report

Quoted By:

>>14165875
I'm taking Software Engineering. We have linear algebra and discreet math. Had to take calc 1 equivalent to complete high school.
t.australlian

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 31 Jan 2022 11:21:59 No.14170001 Report

Quoted By: >>14170406 >>14171290

>>14165867
>>Study computer science in 1982
>Get a free bachelor's in math because most of the courses overlap with each other
Imagine actually believing this, lmao.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 31 Jan 2022 14:20:28 No.14170406 Report

Quoted By:

>>14170001
To be fair, most math majors have so much room for electives, you can easily double major in math and CS even today. Same with EE/Math, but only because of overlap, not because of free electives.

Anonymous

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Anonymous Mon 31 Jan 2022 16:12:07 No.14170704 Report

Quoted By:

>>14165867
Because "computer science" is a JOKE. A MEME DEGREE. Even civil engineers mog you intellectually, and that means something.

Anonymous

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Anonymous Mon 31 Jan 2022 18:52:06 No.14171290 Report

Quoted By: >>14173856

>>14170001
Not exactly math but definitely enough to do pure math in grad school after filling in a few holes.
Granted you can do that now with a good CS program or a trivially with a math/CS double major

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 31 Jan 2022 18:56:14 No.14171310 Report

Quoted By:

>>14168832
>Discrete math is cancer. You don't need it unless you want to do your own crypto.
Out of all mathematics, discrete is the most readily applied at all levels of CS. It shows up in caching algorithms and queue policy. It shows up in trading algos. It shows up in optimization algorithms. You have the weakest case against discrete
>crypto
Crypto is where calculus and actual math like field theory are useful

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 01 Feb 2022 00:27:09 No.14172771 Report

Quoted By: >>14173620

>>14168783
most of this stuff isn't even taught undergrad cs. Just koding writing writng communicating sosiety koding sosiety, this is OP's complaint. I don't know if my school is just bad or what.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 01 Feb 2022 00:37:49 No.14172803 Report

Quoted By:

Unironically the answer to "What went wrong?" Is women.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 01 Feb 2022 05:51:40 No.14173620 Report

Quoted By:

>>14172771
I think your school is bad. My school required us to take at least two of OS Design , Computer Networks, Databases, Computer Graphics, and Distributed Systems for our systems depth requirement.
Intro to AI (and subsequently, Fundamentals of Machine Learning) were electives.
Embedded was an elective housed in the ECE department that allowed CS majors who took systems core, provided there was space. Same goes for Parallel Programming.
We had a Computer Security course, which wasn't really heavy on math (that was our Cryptography class crosslisted in the math dept) but instead focused on design considerations, side channel attacks, man in the middle, and special topics like security of medical devices.

These are standard CS topics.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 01 Feb 2022 09:14:03 No.14173856 Report

Quoted By:

>>14171290
>ACM actually had CS undergrads do analysis, abstract algebra, and measure theoretic probability theory in their curriculum
extremely based

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