/sci/ - Science & Math » Thread #14153599

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Anonymous Thu 27 Jan 03:48:02 2022 No.14153599 View Reply Original Report

Quoted By: >>14153614 >>14153615 >>14153685 >>14153686 >>14154089 >>14154091 >>14154148 >>14154155 >>14154379 >>14154449 >>14154736 >>14154780 >>14155531 >>14155920 >>14156641 >>14158837

Why were so many of the great scientists of the 20th century involved in or supportive of eugenics?

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 27 Jan 2022 03:49:12 No.14153605 Report

Quoted By:

look into why they want to do it

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 27 Jan 2022 03:54:03 No.14153614 Report

Quoted By:

>>14153599
They were racist chuds and not as smart as you think they were. Science has flourished ever since women and POC have been allowed to take their rightful place and replace useless, stale white men.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 27 Jan 2022 03:54:14 No.14153615 Report

Quoted By:

>>14153599
if they weren’t blatant racists then they were basically the tech accelerationists of their time, same as the
>muh AI
chuds today

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 27 Jan 2022 04:13:47 No.14153685 Report

Quoted By: >>14155679

>>14153599
Because eugenics is a fundamentally good and simple-seeming idea, it's worked for every domesticated crop and animal since the dawn of civilization, it follows what for a very long time was the exciting and Scientific idea of evolution.

The problem is that it's rather more fraught judging human beings than it is judging livestock or corn, and the traditional means of implementing it are abhorrent.

Free contraceptives for teenagers is technically eugenic, with better branding and avoiding some of the pitfalls.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 27 Jan 2022 04:14:15 No.14153686 Report

Quoted By:

>>14153599
Because it's a good idea.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 27 Jan 2022 07:45:04 No.14154089 Report

Quoted By: >>14154156

>>14153599
>so many of the great scientists
How many is "so" many?

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 27 Jan 2022 07:46:57 No.14154091 Report

Quoted By:

>>14153599
They were racist white males that's why.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 27 Jan 2022 08:11:36 No.14154148 Report

Quoted By: >>14154384

>>14153599
Because it was snake oil sold as a "cure all" to various social and ethnic issues. That was until Nazi Germany decided not all ethnic Europeans was worth keeping around.

Obviously of course the more we now know about Eugenics as methodology to genetic maintenance. The more it becomes obvious Nazi Germany would have either died off or bankrupted themselves from continously fighting diseases due to eventual turning themselves into clones similar to bananas.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 27 Jan 2022 08:13:33 No.14154155 Report

Quoted By: >>14154161

>>14153599
Its scientism. Racism doesnt become a science because vernier.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 27 Jan 2022 08:14:44 No.14154156 Report

Quoted By:

>>14154089
Some random alcoholic chud from Germany

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 27 Jan 2022 08:18:19 No.14154161 Report

Quoted By:

>>14154155
>scientism
...is a word concocted by Creationists, ain'nit?!

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 27 Jan 2022 10:44:28 No.14154379 Report

Quoted By: >>14154387

>>14153599
the hope was to make the human race better. less disease, longer life spans etc. the problem was deciding who and who could not add to the next generations gene pool. it trampled individual rights like most socialist agendas.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 27 Jan 2022 10:46:36 No.14154384 Report

Quoted By: >>14155657

>>14154148
12 year old level understanding of history

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 27 Jan 2022 10:47:37 No.14154387 Report

Quoted By: >>14154430 >>14154500

>>14154379
who the fuck brought up socialism you stupid old faggot

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 27 Jan 2022 11:07:33 No.14154430 Report

Quoted By:

>>14154387
the nazi's

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 27 Jan 2022 11:17:55 No.14154449 Report

Quoted By: >>14154502

>>14153599
1. We figured out that it works (scientific look at domestication)
2. Scientists are also just humans who fall prey to ideologies that preach of supermen and pure races

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 27 Jan 2022 11:35:27 No.14154500 Report

Quoted By: >>14154518 >>14154691

>>14154387
>crush individuals for the public good
Thats socialism.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 27 Jan 2022 11:36:28 No.14154502 Report

Quoted By: >>14154530

>>14154449
Domesticated humans=!Superior humans.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 27 Jan 2022 11:41:48 No.14154518 Report

Quoted By: >>14154688 >>14154715

>>14154500
No, common ownership of the means of production is socialism. Subordinating private interests to public interests to some degree or another is an aspect of any functional society.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 27 Jan 2022 11:48:06 No.14154530 Report

Quoted By: >>14154711

>>14154502
The point is artificial selection works. The point is not that you would select for the traits you would choose for domestication.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 27 Jan 2022 13:20:15 No.14154683 Report

Quoted By:

Because it's a good idea.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 27 Jan 2022 13:21:28 No.14154688 Report

Quoted By: >>14155054

>>14154518
>Subordinating private interests to public interests to some degree
>to some degree
the degree is always the problem. the minute some genius thinks that he can help the world be a better place there are always too many people who won't rest to push that agenda because it can't possibly go too far enough. beware those who look out to do whats best for you, they will never stop.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 27 Jan 2022 13:21:49 No.14154691 Report

Quoted By: >>14154703 >>14154713

>>14154500
jesus christ you're dumb

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 27 Jan 2022 13:30:00 No.14154703 Report

Quoted By:

>>14154691
what makes you socialists tick? i mean, why socialism?

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 27 Jan 2022 13:38:18 No.14154711 Report

Quoted By: >>14154787

>>14154530
Humans are not your cattle to domesticate. This is why historically elites have lower survival rates than poors. They get delusional and lose their heads.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 27 Jan 2022 13:39:20 No.14154713 Report

Quoted By:

>>14154691
No U

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 27 Jan 2022 13:41:27 No.14154715 Report

Quoted By: >>14155054

>>14154518
>he thinks socialism is an economic doctrine

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 27 Jan 2022 13:50:16 No.14154736 Report

Quoted By:

>>14153599
Because scientists tend to be smart and smart people understand that eugenics is good for the society?

Anonymous

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Anonymous Thu 27 Jan 2022 14:00:21 No.14154754 Report

Quoted By:

I was told I am penetrated by neutrinos every single moment. Am i gay?

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 27 Jan 2022 14:09:43 No.14154780 Report

Quoted By:

>>14153599
Because it seems like a good idea, unless you know how genes work.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 27 Jan 2022 14:11:29 No.14154787 Report

Quoted By: >>14154799

>>14154711
I understand you are morally outraged by the concept, but that is besides the point that it works.
I did not say that it was actually desirable to do it. Maybe scroll up the reply chain before commenting.

Anonymous

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Anonymous Thu 27 Jan 2022 14:14:51 No.14154799 Report

Quoted By: >>14154838

>>14154787
I dont believe it works. Theres no set of ideal human traits you could come up with and expect to be accepted. With cows its simple, you want them to have more milk, and so on. Nothing like that can be defined for humans.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 27 Jan 2022 14:23:52 No.14154838 Report

Quoted By: >>14155480

>>14154799
Of course it would be subjective like all value judgements, unless you try to optimize for a certain environments. Like I said I am not advocating for it. But if someone had a set of desirable traits they could use artificial selection to optimize for them.

For example traits desirable by some that you could select for:
Tall males, athletic performance, high IQ, certain skin colors, fertility, facial features, etc. etc.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 27 Jan 2022 15:36:58 No.14155054 Report

Quoted By: >>14155480 >>14158829

>>14154688
Sure, and there's also the type who will think that limitless individualism is in your interest. Self-interest is always a powerful lure.
>>14154715
What did you think it was?

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 27 Jan 2022 17:43:34 No.14155480 Report

Quoted By:

>>14154838
>But if someone had a set of desirable traits they could use artificial selection to optimize for them
Cool fantasy but not applicable to real life.
Are you aiming for what? To make taller women? Smaller men? Its possible but what would anyone gain from it?>>14155054
you need to commit suicide

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 27 Jan 2022 17:54:53 No.14155531 Report

Quoted By: >>14155584

>>14153599
Anyone with a conscience would want to improve the human race

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 27 Jan 2022 18:05:34 No.14155584 Report

Quoted By: >>14155624

>>14155531
It improves itself. Natural selection, go rape some teenagers.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 27 Jan 2022 18:18:05 No.14155624 Report

Quoted By: >>14155686

>>14155584
natural selection =/= improvement

Anonymous

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Anonymous Thu 27 Jan 2022 18:27:27 No.14155657 Report

Quoted By:

>>14154384
Are you saying eugenics wasn't promoted as a cure all? Are we going to ignore all the propaganda and politics that went into the discussion of what was considered a good "stock" of people? Did Nazi Germany not explicitly make it clear that there were ethnic Europeans who did not fit into their world?

It's funny how the political landscape for Europeans and Americans was that Eugenics was viable as a tool to resolve social, ethnic and even economic issues. You even managed to get sects of African Americans on board to cull some of their own. Until of course Nazi Germany talked about entire ethnic groups of Europeans would be on the chopping block.

Then all of sudden it wasn't viable or acceptable anymore.

Anonymous

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Anonymous Thu 27 Jan 2022 18:34:26 No.14155679 Report

Quoted By: >>14155698

>>14153685
"gentle" eugenics with the aim to eliminate genetic diseases and likelihood of cancer would be ideal. by gentle i mean people's genetic histories and family disease's are documented and people can choose to use that information to find partners that will minimize disease in future generations, or not.

of course this would never work because we can't have nice things and people would select for stupid shit like height and end up causing more harm than good.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 27 Jan 2022 18:36:39 No.14155686 Report

Quoted By:

>>14155624
How would you make humans better? Anything you do would only make them worse.
Like high IQ? That might destabilize society, dumb people do simple jobs fine.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 27 Jan 2022 18:39:00 No.14155698 Report

Quoted By: >>14155752

>>14155679
>gentle" eugenics with the aim to eliminate genetic diseases and likelihood of cancer
You cant do this. The most perfect dna will still mutate.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 27 Jan 2022 18:47:01 No.14155729 Report

Quoted By:

Is the stock market eugenic or disgenic?

https://youtu.be/n5JWyPBM_U4

Anonymous

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Anonymous Thu 27 Jan 2022 18:54:11 No.14155752 Report

Quoted By: >>14155761

>>14155698
>The most perfect dna will still mutate.
>perfect
you are exactly the type of person that makes eugenics a huge fucking no-no

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 27 Jan 2022 18:57:32 No.14155761 Report

Quoted By: >>14155857

>>14155752
I kill dumb people with a hammer. I have raised the average IQ more than you dumb larper.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 27 Jan 2022 19:34:54 No.14155857 Report

Quoted By:

>>14155761
>i will use this completely arbitrary number the hard science of psychology invented to determine whether you are fit to live or not
do us a favor and just go ahead and lop off your balls

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 27 Jan 2022 19:55:02 No.14155920 Report

Quoted By:

>>14153599
Society at the time of figures like Galton had a much more "modern" (in the sense that science should be applied to improve/progress humanity) view of science then, eugenics was made taboo for political reasons because it was expedient around WW2. If you want proof that it was dismissed on political grounds instead of scientific ones, read the mental gymnastics ITT that either A. make believe eugenics has to be done in a cruel and amoral way or B. make believe that there's literally no traits that would be desirable to breed out. It's perfectly reasonable to criticize the methodology eugenicists were working with or bring up the valid point that selecting for broad metrics like IQ will have unforeseen consequences. At the same time, the eugenic practices of using family history to make sure people with recessive genetic defects don't breed together or encouraging geniuses to pass on their intelligence instead of dying as childless NEETs seems clearly desirable.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 27 Jan 2022 19:55:36 No.14155923 Report

Quoted By:

ITT: seething reddit niggers who would be the first batch to be deemed unfit to reproduce

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 27 Jan 2022 23:07:23 No.14156641 Report

Quoted By:

>>14153599
Because they didn't understand evolution as much as they thought they did.

Anonymous

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Anonymous Fri 28 Jan 2022 04:19:11 No.14157475 Report

Quoted By:

eugenics is fetishization, don't complain when in 100 years everyone is SMASHED and SLAMMED

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 28 Jan 2022 15:26:48 No.14158829 Report

Quoted By:

>>14155054
>What did you think it was?
Socialism is an umbrella term for a number of political movements of the 19th and 20th centuries. In modern parlance it is useful conflated with Marxian (or more precisely Engelsian) socialism, unfortunately stripped of its more insightful aspects and reduced to a vulgar economism and determinist reading of history.

Anonymous

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Anonymous Fri 28 Jan 2022 15:28:49 No.14158837 Report

Quoted By:

>>14153599
>Why were so many of the great scientists of the 20th century involved in or supportive of eugenics?
Because religious beliefs in the sanctity of life were falling out of favor, and common sense wasn't universally derided yet.

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