/sci/ - Science & Math » Thread #14085559

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What is the best (currently available) propellant for a gyrojet-style projectile?

Anonymous Tue 11 Jan 01:30:33 2022 No.14085559 View Reply Original Report

Quoted By: >>14085637 >>14085833 >>14087871

Is the Nitrocellulose/Nitroglycerin mix with a protective TiO2 insulator really the optimal fuel for these tiny rockets or are there propellants with better characteristics?

Will we ever have real life bolters?

Anonymous

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Anonymous Tue 11 Jan 2022 01:54:18 No.14085637 Report

Quoted By: >>14085766

>>14085559
>real life bolters

An irl bolter would use caseless ammo or just some sort of energy weapon, which is what an AR slug practically is once it transfers all its kinetic energy into its target. The cheaper and more portable in large quantities the better.

No way any gyrojet design would be cheap. Be useful for intelligence work, though...expensive bullet, throwaway gun. First time I heard of these was in a Larry Niven SF story.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 11 Jan 2022 02:48:36 No.14085766 Report

Quoted By: >>14086378

>>14085637
Sure, but say one were to develop a tiny rocket meant to be used as bullets, what other propellant candidates are there aside from ones they already used in the original gyrojet cartridge?

One niche use case for rocket guns are handheld kinetic weapons for use in microgravity. Without some kind of personal automated RCS unit, the recoil from a conventional gun would result in undesirable recoil that could send the user spinning unpredictably.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 11 Jan 2022 03:28:12 No.14085833 Report

Quoted By: >>14085980 >>14085981 >>14086303 >>14091109

>>14085559
Paraffin apparently
https://news.stanford.edu/pr/03/rocketwax115.html

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 11 Jan 2022 03:35:28 No.14085843 Report

Quoted By:

>the slowest speeds occur when the trajectory is most affected
gyrojets have always been a stupid idea

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 11 Jan 2022 04:39:44 No.14085980 Report

Quoted By: >>14086029

>>14085833
Any kind of hybrid motor would be useless for something at the scale of a bullet. Paraffin is surprisingly good for hybrids, though, and pretty easy to work with.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 11 Jan 2022 04:40:06 No.14085981 Report

Quoted By:

>>14085833
Fascinating, thanks anon

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 11 Jan 2022 05:04:32 No.14086024 Report

Quoted By: >>14087908

Bolters use a small kick charge in the casing to get the shell moving and ignite the shell's rocket.

Which eliminates the problem that gyrojets had. Which was anemic performance when fired. As the propellant had not accelerated the rocket much at all.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 11 Jan 2022 05:07:52 No.14086029 Report

Quoted By: >>14086043

>>14085980
Can't a solid oxidizer just be mixed in with the Paraffin?

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 11 Jan 2022 05:14:11 No.14086043 Report

Quoted By: >>14087451

>>14086029
I've never seen anyone do it, but once you go that far, you're probably better off just using traditional composite propellants like the vast majority of missiles. I'm not on the chemistry side of things, so I'm definitely not an expert, but I have worked on engines that use paraffin as a fuel in a lab setting.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 11 Jan 2022 06:27:37 No.14086245 Report

Quoted By: >>14086348 >>14087507 >>14089921

Should use a liquid hypergolic bi propellant. Then your firing pin pierces a pierces foil and they mix and ignite. Very reliable.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 11 Jan 2022 06:58:48 No.14086303 Report

Quoted By:

>>14085833
they use parafin+nitrocellulose in early smokeless powder, cordite

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 11 Jan 2022 07:18:00 No.14086348 Report

Quoted By:

>>14086245
>Then your firing pin pierces a pierces foil and they mix and ignite.
That sounds like a fantastic way to get your hand blown off.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 11 Jan 2022 07:33:54 No.14086378 Report

Quoted By: >>14087871

>>14085766
>Without some kind of personal automated RCS unit, the recoil from a conventional gun would result in undesirable recoil that could send the user spinning unpredictably.
The recoil of a conventional gun is really not that bad. Don't wind up in a fight off-station and you'll have plenty of things to brace against to halt the miniscule rotation and acceleration imparted on you by your gun.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 11 Jan 2022 15:54:14 No.14087451 Report

Quoted By: >>14087530

>>14086043
Do you guys have to "machine" the paraffin motors or can you get away with just molding them?

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 11 Jan 2022 16:18:18 No.14087507 Report

Quoted By: >>14087574

>>14086245
Kek
If the bullet doesn't kill them, the unburnt hydrazine will.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 11 Jan 2022 16:26:50 No.14087530 Report

Quoted By:

>>14087451
All the ones I've seen are cast. The fuel grains themselves are fairly small, so it's not a super involved process.

Anonymous

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Anonymous Tue 11 Jan 2022 16:38:38 No.14087574 Report

Quoted By: >>14087580

>>14087507
Anon, hydlazine toxicity is way ovelblown!

Anonymous

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Anonymous Tue 11 Jan 2022 16:40:17 No.14087580 Report

Quoted By: >>14087596 >>14089316

>>14087574
>pressurizing your oxidizer tank with fuel-rich hypergolic exhaust

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 11 Jan 2022 16:44:32 No.14087596 Report

Quoted By:

>>14087580
And not just any boding old oxidizer, anon. The only way to improve it is to add strontium and cobalt.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 11 Jan 2022 18:04:55 No.14087871 Report

Quoted By:

>>14086378
I think he is referring to low gravity conditions like space, where gun recoil will make you move too much.
>>14085559
>Is the Nitrocellulose/Nitroglycerin mix with a protective TiO2 insulator really the optimal fuel for these tiny rockets
Cost wise, yes. Nitrocellulose can be made from a wide variety of plant material, and nitroglycerin is made from glycerin which is a byproduct of soap and biofuel production. It is just about the cheapest smokeless propellant that you could ask for

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 11 Jan 2022 18:11:39 No.14087908 Report

Quoted By: >>14089324

>>14086024
Iirc RPGs have a small kick charge that was actually not quite trivial to implement because it has to burn out completely within a small fraction of a second while still inside the launcher tube to not blast the operator's face with hot supersonic exhaust

Anonymous

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Anonymous Tue 11 Jan 2022 22:21:02 No.14089316 Report

Quoted By:

>>14087580
>Trust me Sergei, when i submit this insane idea to the board they will definitely reject the proposal and fire me, then I can finally retire from this shit
>Hey Valentin, they love the idea, they asked if you can make them ICBM's like that rocket
>GOD DAMN IT
>Well when it explodes I have to tell them that the design was stupid, you know how it goes.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 11 Jan 2022 22:23:39 No.14089324 Report

Quoted By: >>14089432

>>14087908
Arent RPG's kinda like recoiless rifles where the entire charge burns out and they just kinda coast on the velocity they gained when the charge was burning in the tube ?

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 11 Jan 2022 22:52:44 No.14089432 Report

Quoted By:

>>14089324
There are different designs actually. Some burn completely within the tube, the Russian RPG-7 fires the main motor after going 10 meters, early german design just blasted away into the operator's face hiding behind the metal shield lol

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 11 Jan 2022 22:54:18 No.14089438 Report

Quoted By: >>14089487

Bolters would be weaker than the normal guns that Tau use.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 11 Jan 2022 23:07:08 No.14089487 Report

Quoted By: >>14089494

>>14089438
>t. blueskin
Tau women don't even have tits

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 11 Jan 2022 23:08:07 No.14089494 Report

Quoted By:

>>14089487
Their plasma rifles are stronger than boltors and every Tau gets one. The imperium are a bunch of primitive chuds with a large population.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 12 Jan 2022 00:48:31 No.14089921 Report

Quoted By: >>14090050

>>14086245
But how would you stabilize the projectile?

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 12 Jan 2022 01:26:07 No.14090050 Report

Quoted By: >>14090629

>>14089921
Nozzles inducing spin

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 12 Jan 2022 04:47:13 No.14090629 Report

Quoted By:

>>14090050
Won't the exhaust leave through the firing pin hole?

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 12 Jan 2022 09:03:59 No.14091109 Report

Quoted By:

>>14085833
TFW alternate history where paraffin rockets were discovered before the invention of the airplane

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