/sci/ - Science & Math » Thread #13982240

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Are the eyes and memory similar to cameras recording?

Anonymous Sun 19 Dec 13:18:24 2021 No.13982240 View Reply Original Report

Quoted By: >>13982268 >>13982269 >>13982389 >>13982429 >>13982437 >>13983095

Anonymous

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Anonymous Sun 19 Dec 2021 13:28:37 No.13982268 Report

Quoted By: >>13982315 >>13983171

>>13982240
The eye itself is more or less analogous to a camera, but I don't think visual memory is analogous to a recording at all. My guess is that they're stored in terms of some higher-level "descriptions", probably a far more sophisticated version of picrel.

Anonymous

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Anonymous Sun 19 Dec 2021 13:28:50 No.13982269 Report

Quoted By: >>13982280 >>13982315 >>13982429 >>13983171

>>13982240
The word "similar" is so vague that for some interpretations the answer is trivially true. At the same time they are clearly different in that you can't say "enumerate the pixels in this moment and tell me the hue of the 23096th pixel" For humans, we don't even have a mechanically accessible theory of particular memory snapshots in this sense

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 19 Dec 2021 13:34:11 No.13982280 Report

Quoted By: >>13982309

>>13982269
>anoter zero content pseud post
You're on a streak today.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 19 Dec 2021 13:47:41 No.13982309 Report

Quoted By: >>13982313

>>13982280
What are supposed to be my other posts?
I also think I provided a good answer, but I'll let you disagree with that

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 19 Dec 2021 13:49:28 No.13982313 Report

Quoted By:

>>13982309
Your answer is "lol i dunno" if we strip it from the meaningless cruft, so why did you bother with it?

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 19 Dec 2021 13:50:19 No.13982315 Report

Quoted By: >>13982323 >>13982326 >>13982327

>>13982268
>>13982269
If the eye has pixels it doesnt have them arranged in a neat square surface with x,y coordinates for each pixel. Its an amorphous zone with a large hole in the center with no sensitive cells. Our vision depends on motion, the eye collects information by scanning, not much motion is needed and the eye process the info and fills in gaps. If you were to stay fully still and look intensely at one spot you will start noticing a blind spot in your field of vision.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 19 Dec 2021 13:53:27 No.13982323 Report

Quoted By:

>>13982315
I mean the brain does the processing, a "snapshot" by the eye wont be a square picture but a smudge with a blind region in the center where theres some structure, the optical nerve or some artery but no sensitive cells. How were they called? Cones and something else

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 19 Dec 2021 13:55:09 No.13982326 Report

Quoted By:

>>13982315
Yes I don't even think there's temporary "pictures" of scenes, or at least that what we perceive or that what we "save" into memory is not in 1:1 correspondence with what our retina catches in some short time interval

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 19 Dec 2021 13:55:36 No.13982327 Report

Quoted By: >>13982339

>>13982315
>If the eye has pixels it doesnt have them arranged in a neat square surface with x,y coordinates for each pixel.
So what? The the brain obviously knows how to map it into something flat-ish and continuous.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 19 Dec 2021 14:00:26 No.13982339 Report

Quoted By: >>13982345

>>13982327
Sure just saying the process requires some motion of the eyes or head to form a picture.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 19 Dec 2021 14:02:16 No.13982345 Report

Quoted By: >>13982354

>>13982339
But you do get a picture eventually, after all the fancy brain processing is done.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 19 Dec 2021 14:07:17 No.13982354 Report

Quoted By: >>13982368

>>13982345
Correct but you have to have motion. Its unnatural to just stay still.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 19 Dec 2021 14:12:14 No.13982368 Report

Quoted By: >>13982523

>>13982354
I'm not really sure what your point is... you have camera-ish things inside your head: they have lenses, they have apertures, they have a light-sensitive surface, then you have some post-processing done to create a stable image, and then some more processing on that to interpret movements.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 19 Dec 2021 14:22:18 No.13982389 Report

Quoted By: >>13982394

>>13982240
Both eyes and cameras use basic optics. With unavoidable distortions. Which means they do not produce an exact and flawless representation.
As for memory. A computer memory is a deterministic set of 1's and 0's. The human mind is not so much a memory storage machine as it is a memory reconstruction machine. Rendering different versions of the same event, each time you think back.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 19 Dec 2021 14:24:08 No.13982394 Report

Quoted By: >>13982712

>>13982389
>With unavoidable distortions. Which means they do not produce an exact and flawless representation.
Of what? The perfect flat image that exists only in your head and not in reality? What does this even mean?

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 19 Dec 2021 14:38:58 No.13982429 Report

Quoted By: >>13983169

>>13982269
Right.

>>13982240
Our eyes(our senses)/memories work together in healthy humans. For the blind, the senses(sans the eyes)/memories. For cameras, the memories and lenses are independent of each other in how they work, but not so in living beings where memories/eyes work together in function.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 19 Dec 2021 14:40:51 No.13982437 Report

Quoted By:

>>13982240
Yeah because I can choose which images to delete and can connect my brain to a computer and print others out

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 19 Dec 2021 15:09:42 No.13982523 Report

Quoted By: >>13982546

>>13982368
Its a difference with normal cameras. The eye records less than what you see, you have to scan the environment to form an image. Therefore you cant take snapshots with your eyes. Do you understand the difference?

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 19 Dec 2021 15:17:58 No.13982546 Report

Quoted By:

>>13982523
>Its a difference with normal cameras
Not really. The eye is essentially just a camera with a strangely shaped sensor that produces an image with irregular resolution and a hole. The brain then processes this until something more usable.

Anonymous

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Anonymous Sun 19 Dec 2021 16:03:32 No.13982712 Report

Quoted By: >>13982715

>>13982394
It means that any image of reality is not an exact, flawless, unbiased projection of reality. There are distortions. And the brain adds some recombination algorithm on top of that. Hence the unreliability of eye witness accounts

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 19 Dec 2021 16:04:18 No.13982715 Report

Quoted By: >>13982732 >>13982734

>>13982712
>it means that any image of reality is not an exact, flawless, unbiased projection of reality.
What is an "exact, flawless, unbiased projection of reality"?

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 19 Dec 2021 16:09:10 No.13982732 Report

Quoted By: >>13982733

>>13982715
>What is an "exact, flawless, unbiased projection of reality"?
Something that doesn't exist.
Point is that most people think that a picture is objective and "true" to reality. And it's not.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 19 Dec 2021 16:09:57 No.13982733 Report

Quoted By: >>13982875

>>13982732
>Point is that most people think that a picture is objective and "true" to reality.
How can a picture be objective and "true" to reality?

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 19 Dec 2021 16:10:27 No.13982734 Report

Quoted By: >>13982774

>>13982715
not OP but essentially just the universe as it is constructed without the distortions of an observers perspective. the universe existed for billions of years without observers, what did it "look" like then if no one was there to see it? if you can imagine that, thats the exact projection of reality

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 19 Dec 2021 16:20:08 No.13982774 Report

Quoted By:

>>13982734
>the universe as it is constructed without the distortions of an observers perspective
That's not a projection of reality. That's just reality. Try again?

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 19 Dec 2021 16:44:14 No.13982875 Report

Quoted By: >>13982949

>>13982733
It can't, that's the point.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 19 Dec 2021 17:02:04 No.13982949 Report

Quoted By: >>13982990

>>13982875
Okay, so what's wrong with the picture offered by the eye, as opposed to any other theoretical picture that is supposedly "undistorted" and "unbiased"?

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 19 Dec 2021 17:17:24 No.13982990 Report

Quoted By: >>13983011

>>13982949
All pictures are distorted. And the eye is no different than any other camera, in that respect. It is the brain that adds an extra level of bias interpretation. Because the brain, unlike a computer memory, is not a simple "store and retreive" device. Each time you remember ("retreive") an image it is a biased reconstruction. And no two reconstruction are the same. So every time you remember something you remember it differently than the previous time you remembered it.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 19 Dec 2021 17:22:13 No.13983011 Report

Quoted By: >>13983058

>>13982990
>All pictures are distorted
This statement has no meaning beyond "the eye doesn't magically reconstruct the entire universe inside your brain". I guess some imaginary strawman you were trying to dunk on stands corrected for thinking otherwise.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 19 Dec 2021 17:31:53 No.13983058 Report

Quoted By: >>13983069

>>13983011
You should read this thread again.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 19 Dec 2021 17:34:34 No.13983069 Report

Quoted By: >>13983142

>>13983058
Nice deflection, but your shart is still meaningless. No one needed it explained to them that the eyes don't allow you to reconstruct the whole universe in your brain.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 19 Dec 2021 17:40:07 No.13983095 Report

Quoted By: >>13983171

>>13982240
Not at all, a camera takes a picture that will remain the same so long as it does not degrade or get damaged.

Memories are warped and distorted and get worse over time and depending on your emotions.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 19 Dec 2021 17:53:29 No.13983142 Report

Quoted By: >>13983145

>>13983069
I never went beyond pictures and memory. Why do you drag in "the universe"?

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 19 Dec 2021 17:54:33 No.13983145 Report

Quoted By: >>13983154

>>13983142
You were explainig to me that pictures are "distorted" and "biased" because they're not literally reality in the flesh.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 19 Dec 2021 17:57:53 No.13983154 Report

Quoted By:

>>13983145
If that is what you took ftom my posts then I have failed to make my point. Which is that eyes and cameras are in principle the same. But our brains are very different from digitsl memory devices.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 19 Dec 2021 18:01:53 No.13983169 Report

Quoted By:

>>13982429
>sans

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 19 Dec 2021 18:02:14 No.13983171 Report

Quoted By: >>13983174

>>13983095
>>13982268
>>13982269
This begs the question: how much data is recorded if you leave a camera running on your person that records all of your visual/auditory experiences and similar resolution to your vision for say, a full day? It's probably been done but search engines are useless.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 19 Dec 2021 18:03:16 No.13983174 Report

Quoted By:

>>13983171
*how many data are, goddamnit

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