/sci/ - Science & Math » Thread #13947858

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Anonymous Fri 10 Dec 21:01:06 2021 No.13947858 View Reply Original Report

Quoted By: >>13947863 >>13947992 >>13948023 >>13948231 >>13948347 >>13948509 >>13948610 >>13948667 >>13953437 >>13953631

If our universe is infinitely expanding, what exactly is outside out universe?

Like, you can't expanding into nothing, right?

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 10 Dec 2021 21:02:48 No.13947863 Report

Quoted By: >>13947881 >>13947942 >>13953437

>>13947858
>you can't expanding into nothing, right?
Wrong. "Expanding" in this case means everything gets further away from everything else.

Anonymous

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Anonymous Fri 10 Dec 2021 21:11:07 No.13947881 Report

Quoted By: >>13947946 >>13947964 >>13953420 >>13953437

>>13947863
>"Expanding" in this case means everything gets further away from everything else.
Yeah, that much is a given. But in order for everything to get further apart there needs to be more space to go somewhere.

There can't be empty space outside our universe, or out universe would have no where to expand in to.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 10 Dec 2021 21:32:12 No.13947942 Report

Quoted By:

>>13947863
is spacetime infinite?

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 10 Dec 2021 21:33:27 No.13947946 Report

Quoted By: >>13947983 >>13953437

>>13947881
>in order for everything to get further apart there needs to be more space to go somewhere.
How do you figure?

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 10 Dec 2021 21:40:28 No.13947964 Report

Quoted By: >>13947990

>>13947881
The space is stretching itself. That's why galaxies are getting further apart from each other.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 10 Dec 2021 21:46:07 No.13947983 Report

Quoted By: >>13948190 >>13951451

>>13947946
How do you figure it doesn't?

When you put air into a balloon what happens? The balloon expands into the space around it. It's not expanding into nothing.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 10 Dec 2021 21:47:54 No.13947990 Report

Quoted By: >>13948007 >>13948039

>>13947964
You clearly don't understand what you're replying to. "the space itself is stretching" doesn't answer what's being posed here.
What is the space stretching in to?

The point is that our universe has to actually be inside of something else. It needs space to expand in to.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 10 Dec 2021 21:48:12 No.13947992 Report

Quoted By:

>>13947858
an uncountably infinite universe

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 10 Dec 2021 21:52:27 No.13948007 Report

Quoted By: >>13948014 >>13948022

>>13947990
>The point is that our universe has to actually be inside of something else. It needs space to expand in to.
How do you figure? You keep screeching this, but if I asked you to justify this idea with concrete logic, you'd never be able to.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 10 Dec 2021 21:54:13 No.13948014 Report

Quoted By: >>13948021 >>13953472

>>13948007
I already did explain it. You just keep going "durr how d u figur???"

Explain how it's rational to expand into nothing.

>screeching
Oh, you're autistic. Makes sense that you're a literal retard.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 10 Dec 2021 21:56:34 No.13948021 Report

Quoted By: >>13948042

>>13948014
>I already did explain it.
No, you didn't, but feel free to do so in your next post, step by step, without nonsequiturs.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 10 Dec 2021 21:56:55 No.13948022 Report

Quoted By:

>>13948007
midwit answer

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 10 Dec 2021 21:57:02 No.13948023 Report

Quoted By: >>13948388 >>13948651

>>13947858
Good question. to make it clear to others, OP say: If our universe is infinitely expanding that means it's finite, so what is outside it? it can't expand into nothingness (lack of absolutely nothing like it's term in the filed of philosophy).

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 10 Dec 2021 21:57:27 No.13948025 Report

Quoted By: >>13948058

The Universe is not expanding, all the matter is shrinking

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 10 Dec 2021 22:00:20 No.13948039 Report

Quoted By: >>13948052

>>13947990
That isn't true. Galaxies aren't moving, it's just that the space between them is growing.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 10 Dec 2021 22:01:16 No.13948042 Report

Quoted By: >>13948046 >>13948053

>>13948021
The fact you keep refusing to explain why you think it's rational to expand into nothing is pretty telling that you have no logical reason for your statements.

When something expands it gets larger. Something can't become larger unless there is space around the outside of it. You can't grow into an empty space.

I don't see how this is hard to understand. If you refuse to explain again why you think it's rational to grow into nothing it'll be obvious you're shitposting on purpose.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 10 Dec 2021 22:02:20 No.13948046 Report

Quoted By: >>13948055

>>13948042
>Something can't become larger unless there is space around the outside of it
Spacetime can

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 10 Dec 2021 22:03:22 No.13948052 Report

Quoted By: >>13948059

>>13948039
You what?

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 10 Dec 2021 22:03:42 No.13948053 Report

Quoted By: >>13948066

>>13948042
>you keep refusing to explain why you think it's rational to expand into nothing
I don't need to explain anything, because I'm not the one making any assumptions and then screeching how they can't possibly be false because of reasons.

>When something expands it gets larger.
"Expands" in our case means everything gets further away from everything else. It doesn't mean that the unvierse is an object that is embedded in something and gets "larger"; what would it be getting "larger" relative to?

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 10 Dec 2021 22:04:23 No.13948055 Report

Quoted By:

>>13948046
>Spacetime can
Why?

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 10 Dec 2021 22:04:42 No.13948058 Report

Quoted By:

>>13948025
thats an interesting take
care to elaborate?

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 10 Dec 2021 22:05:44 No.13948059 Report

Quoted By:

>>13948052
You heard me

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 10 Dec 2021 22:07:23 No.13948066 Report

Quoted By: >>13948079

>>13948053
>screeching
I like how you keep showing off how autistic you are and how your default mentality is to accuse other people of being mad because it's how you cope with being a retard.

If you have a point you should be able to explain it, end of story.

>what would it be getting "larger" relative to?
Haha, itself, you fucking retard. The amount of space within the known universe is getting larger. As in, we can measure more distance to the edge of the universe.

Anonymous

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Anonymous Fri 10 Dec 2021 22:10:11 No.13948079 Report

Quoted By: >>13948092

>>13948066
>itself
How can something get larger relative to itself when it, itself, is the only frame of reference that exists?

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 10 Dec 2021 22:12:19 No.13948092 Report

Quoted By: >>13948100

>>13948079
>brain dead wojak shitter
Hah, now it makes even more sense why you're so retarded.

Done humoring you. The fact you started randomly saying people were "screeching" for no reason was a big hint you're not mentally stable.

This is that part where you reply with "durrr consession accepted".

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 10 Dec 2021 22:14:22 No.13948100 Report

Quoted By: >>13948117

>>13948092
>i can't address the question
I accept your concession. If there's only one object, it makes no sense to talk about it getting "bigger", even if you imagine it embedded in some kind of space.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 10 Dec 2021 22:18:28 No.13948117 Report

Quoted By: >>13948121

>>13948100
I'm just going to throw some arbitrary made up number at you for the sake of example.
>it is 1,546,345,628,164 miles from one end of the universe to the other in the year 1900
>in the year 2021 it is 2,546,345,628,164 miles from one end of the universe to the other
>durrr wut do u meen the universe got biger reletive 2 itslf
Feel free to kill yourself at any time, you mentally ill wojak shitter.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 10 Dec 2021 22:19:52 No.13948121 Report

Quoted By: >>13948126

>>13948117
>it is 1,546,345,628,164 miles from one end of the universe to the other in the year 1900
What's the yardstick for a "mile" in a context where there's only one object?

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 10 Dec 2021 22:21:06 No.13948126 Report

Quoted By: >>13948130

>>13948121
Okay, you're just shitposting and being obtuse on purpose. Like I was certain you were. I hate mentally ill people.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 10 Dec 2021 22:23:02 No.13948130 Report

Quoted By: >>13948144

>>13948126
Why are you seething instead of answering the question? Imagine you just have one sphere embedded in some infinite space. How do you measure how big it is?

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 10 Dec 2021 22:26:59 No.13948144 Report

Quoted By: >>13948153

>>13948130
Why are you are so obsessed with thinking other people are mad?
Oh right, because you're a pathetic loser and cope by deluding yourself into thinking other people are mad.

Anonymous

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Anonymous Fri 10 Dec 2021 22:30:07 No.13948152 Report

Quoted By: >>13950648

s o y e n c e !

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 10 Dec 2021 22:30:09 No.13948153 Report

Quoted By: >>13948162

>>13948144
If you're not seething, why do you keep sperging out with piss-weak insults instead of addressing the question? No one is disputing that the spatial relationships between the objects INSIDE the universe are changing, but you're telling me it's "growing" into "something", meaning some spatial relationships are changing OUTSIDE the universe. So, if you only have one object in the given context ("outside of the universe"), what's your yardstick? How do you know it's growing?

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 10 Dec 2021 22:33:38 No.13948162 Report

Quoted By: >>13948175

>>13948153
>if ur not mad y r u mad?????
Awesome circular logic you got there, retard.

>How do you know it's growing?
Because the distance between one edge of the universe and the other edge of the universe is getting further apart. Fucking retard.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 10 Dec 2021 22:36:14 No.13948175 Report

Quoted By: >>13948203

>>13948162
>Because the distance between one edge of the universe and the other edge of the universe is getting further apart.
How do you measure that distance in the geometrical context of "outside the universe", without referencing the size of the only object you have? LOL. Listen, you should calm down for a second and ask yourself why it is that people who actually understand this subject don't lose sleep over your question. Maybe you should consider the possibility that you're just asking a dumb question.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 10 Dec 2021 22:40:15 No.13948190 Report

Quoted By:

>>13947983
The answer is that we don't know
But your logic is too hasty, we can't compare every day physics to edge cases in the universe. We don't know the shape of the universe and whether its finite or infinite, so assuming how the physics at the "border" of it work is too careless

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 10 Dec 2021 22:44:21 No.13948203 Report

Quoted By: >>13948210

>>13948175
>says "lol"
>posts wojak garbage
>is literally autistic
>uses circular logic
You don't honestly expect anyone to take you seriously, right?

This is extremely simple and you are trying to make more complex. There is no "referencing the size of the only object you have" or whatever you're trying to say.

The universe itself is physically getting bigger. That is something we know as a matter of fact. If it's getting bigger, there has to room outside of it for it grow.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 10 Dec 2021 22:45:40 No.13948210 Report

Quoted By: >>13948224

>>13948203
>The universe itself is physically getting bigger.
How do you know it's getting bigger if you're outside of the universe? Are you just struggling to understand the question, anon?

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 10 Dec 2021 22:50:06 No.13948224 Report

Quoted By: >>13948232

>>13948210
You mean "aren't outside of the universe", retard.

And the answer is obvious. Because we can physically measure it getting bigger.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 10 Dec 2021 22:52:00 No.13948231 Report

Quoted By: >>13948253

>>13947858
The other anon had the right point, albeit expressed it in a poor way.
It is an interesting question, but if we really step back and try to approach it - a question asking about things at their most simple level - then we need to lay all of our assumptions on the table and leave them open to questioning.
Your point hinges on the idea that there must be space outside of an object in order for it to expand. There is a certain intuitive appeal, but since this is a premise for your argument, in order for the argument to be sound it must be true. Thus far, you have just asserted it. That premise must be true in order for your argument to go through.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 10 Dec 2021 22:52:08 No.13948232 Report

Quoted By: >>13948238

>>13948224
>You mean "aren't outside of the universe"
No, I mean ARE outside the universe. You're telling me it's growing into some kind of space. We're in that space now. We are no longer inside the universe. It's just infinite void, and this one thing that you call "the universe". You want to measure it. What's your yardstick?

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 10 Dec 2021 22:54:49 No.13948238 Report

Quoted By: >>13948247

>>13948232
>We're in that space now
The fuck are you even talking about? How did you reach this conclusion at all? Why exactly do you think we're no longer in the universe?

I seriously hate autistic people. You are so bad at explaining what you think.

Anonymous

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Anonymous Fri 10 Dec 2021 22:56:53 No.13948247 Report

Quoted By: >>13948256

>>13948238
>Why exactly do you think we're no longer in the universe?
>I seriously hate autistic people.
Am I being trolled?

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 10 Dec 2021 22:57:48 No.13948253 Report

Quoted By:

>>13948231
If by "right point" you just mean "he disagrees" then, sure. But not really. He's going of on same crazy tangent about yard sticks.

The only way something can expand into nothing is if all our known laws of physics are wrong.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 10 Dec 2021 22:59:01 No.13948256 Report

Quoted By: >>13948263

>>13948247
Not only a wojak poster but also a frog poster.
Mentally ill people like you are a literal cancer to society.

>Am I being trolled?
Yeah, by your entire life.

Anonymous

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Anonymous Fri 10 Dec 2021 23:01:35 No.13948263 Report

Quoted By: >>13948273

>>13948256
On the off chance you're not trolling, I think you should get tested for autism yourself... I wasn't saying we're literally outside the universe, anon, or talking about literal yardsticks. It was a hypothetical.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 10 Dec 2021 23:04:01 No.13948273 Report

Quoted By: >>13948290

>>13948263
>It was a hypothetical.
No fucking shit, retard. But the hypothetical didn't make any sense at all. That's why it was being questioned. This is why you have autism.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 10 Dec 2021 23:07:03 No.13948290 Report

Quoted By:

>>13948273
>the hypothetical didn't make any sense at all
LOL. If the universe is "growing into something", why can't we reason in the context of the space it's embedded in? It's your contention, after all...

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 10 Dec 2021 23:27:03 No.13948347 Report

Quoted By:

>>13947858
Same thing when the Universe was the size of a grape.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 10 Dec 2021 23:41:04 No.13948388 Report

Quoted By:

>>13948023
>If our universe is infinitely expanding that means it's finite
no lol
if it is infinitely expanding then it means reality is infinite because otherwise it couldn't expand infinitely
you have some issues with basic logic

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 10 Dec 2021 23:49:17 No.13948421 Report

Quoted By:

If it could not expand, would it not mean that there is something outside that pushes it back?

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 11 Dec 2021 00:15:53 No.13948509 Report

Quoted By: >>13948525

>>13947858
The universe is infinite and has always been. The spaces between galaxy clusters are increasing. That's it.
When scientists talk about the universe being the size of a grapefruit, then that's popsci talk for the matter of the observable universe was inside that volume.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 11 Dec 2021 00:18:36 No.13948525 Report

Quoted By: >>13948542 >>13948564

>>13948509
>universe is infinite
Who gave you this snippet of wisdom exactly?

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 11 Dec 2021 00:23:03 No.13948542 Report

Quoted By: >>13948572

>>13948525
It's the current standard interpretation. Just google it. It being finite would imply we live in a 4D hypersphere, but we can't detect curvature of 3D space.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 11 Dec 2021 00:30:09 No.13948564 Report

Quoted By:

>>13948525
reality is infinite
there is always something that contains the container
your brain normally has the ability to visualize this concept and it gets very weird to think about it

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 11 Dec 2021 00:32:43 No.13948572 Report

Quoted By:

>>13948542
Fair enough. But it remains an open problem in cosmology. The sign of the curvature is still undecided.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 11 Dec 2021 00:43:34 No.13948610 Report

Quoted By: >>13948695

>>13947858
If the matter in our universe is infinitely shrinking, what exactly is inside our universe? Like, you can't shrink into nothing, right?

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 11 Dec 2021 01:00:13 No.13948651 Report

Quoted By:

>>13948023
Matter is finite but space may not be, it appears to be flat from the measurements they did.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 11 Dec 2021 01:06:56 No.13948667 Report

Quoted By:

>>13947858
>If our universe is infinitely expanding, what exactly is outside out universe?
Expanding? They only have some shitty redshift lines on some photons dripping in their detectors and fails in the expansion falloff.

Astrophysics is often in error but rarely in doubt.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 11 Dec 2021 01:16:15 No.13948695 Report

Quoted By: >>13948809

>>13948610
You could shrink into a very small point, but then physics stop working properly.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 11 Dec 2021 02:00:49 No.13948809 Report

Quoted By:

>>13948695
>You could expand everything until nothing can interact with anything else, but then physics stop working properly.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 11 Dec 2021 15:05:14 No.13950648 Report

Quoted By:

>>13948152
kek

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 11 Dec 2021 17:47:13 No.13951171 Report

Quoted By:

it's just the natural evolution of space itself. it expands its own self, just like hot air expands and cold air contracts. there is no *absolute* boundary to the universe so you can't ask "what is it expanding INTO" because wherever you go in the universe there is a *relative* bubble universe around that point - its event horizon, if there was no event horizon, nothing would be possible. you can however ask "If its expanding, what is filling up the void in between components that are moving away from each other" which people have not figured out yet so they just call it dark energy/matter.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 11 Dec 2021 18:58:46 No.13951451 Report

Quoted By:

>>13947983
Actually, the universe expands like how the SURFACE of the balloon expands. If you pick two points, you will see that, and start to put air in the balloon, from the perspective of the point, the other point starts to get far away. If you draw multiple points, seemingly all of them will start to expand outwards. You don't need space outside the balloon for this.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 11 Dec 2021 19:07:46 No.13951480 Report

Quoted By:

>anything works because we measured it

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 11 Dec 2021 19:09:58 No.13951488 Report

Quoted By:

>trusting a literal who on the internet is a good thing

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 12 Dec 2021 08:26:05 No.13953420 Report

Quoted By:

>>13947881
If you are expecting answers, you better curb your enthusiasm right now. Physicists have no idea how things much more simple than the universe expansion work, just the math that appears to describe them.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 12 Dec 2021 08:33:18 No.13953437 Report

Quoted By:

>>13947858
>>13947863
>>13947881
>>13947946
It would be best to first determine if the universe even has boundaries of some kind or if it just goes on forever.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 12 Dec 2021 09:01:25 No.13953472 Report

Quoted By:

>>13948014
You are a fucking idiot.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 12 Dec 2021 10:48:27 No.13953631 Report

Quoted By:

>>13947858
The universe is a hypersphere

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