/sci/ - Science & Math » Thread #13942304

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Anonymous Thu 09 Dec 10:45:42 2021 No.13942304 View Reply Original Report

Quoted By: >>13942316 >>13942338 >>13942446 >>13942450 >>13942586 >>13942780 >>13942798 >>13946934 >>13947052 >>13947150 >>13947551

Why is this little bastard considered simultaneously dead and alive when it clearly dies the moment radiation is detected? It should clearly be alive in the box.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 09 Dec 2021 10:52:30 No.13942316 Report

Quoted By:

>>13942304
For all intents and purposes, it is either dead or alive. Someone outside the box just doesn't know what happened inside.

Anonymous

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Anonymous Thu 09 Dec 2021 10:56:31 No.13942325 Report

Quoted By: >>13942410

>physishits are so focused on their made up reality they forgot what a cat looks like

El Arcón

El Arcón Thu 09 Dec 2021 10:57:39 No.13942327 Report

Quoted By:

It's a Jewish trick.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 09 Dec 2021 11:02:33 No.13942338 Report

Quoted By: >>13942546

>>13942304
It's a thought experiment meant to represent the problems with the Copenhagen interpretation of quantum mechanics.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 09 Dec 2021 11:05:10 No.13942341 Report

Quoted By:

Penny, do you know about Schrödinger's cat?
*laugh track*
Bazinga

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 09 Dec 2021 11:42:54 No.13942410 Report

Quoted By:

>>13942325
So cute bro

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 09 Dec 2021 11:55:18 No.13942446 Report

Quoted By: >>13942807

>>13942304
Because you don't know if radiation was detected until you open the box/collapse the wave function. It's unrealistic because in reality you can't completely decouple something as big as the box from the environment, but if you could the entire system would be in a superposition of states. What this means philosophically is up to you, but the math is unambiguous.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 09 Dec 2021 11:57:41 No.13942450 Report

Quoted By:

>>13942304

It was actually an example to show how problematic it is to apply small scale processes on a large scale.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 09 Dec 2021 12:31:52 No.13942546 Report

Quoted By: >>13942975 >>13946883 >>13946956

>>13942338
Schrödinger was a proponent of COPEnhagen interpretation though. He only mocked stupid philosophags who mistook this mathematical model for some ontological bullshit.

Anonymous

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Anonymous Thu 09 Dec 2021 12:44:26 No.13942586 Report

Quoted By: >>13943398

>>13942304
Isn't it just "considered" dead and alive? So in reality it's either dead or alive you just don't know till you check because the decay is random, as opposed to a purely mechanical universe where you could predict it?

Anonymous

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Anonymous Thu 09 Dec 2021 12:46:05 No.13942591 Report

Quoted By:

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 09 Dec 2021 13:46:49 No.13942780 Report

Quoted By: >>13942937

>>13942304
The one thing that surprises me about this meme is that trolls haven't started spreading it around, making out that its a real experiment conducted daily by scientists to test their theories. Enough material exists on this to convince normies that monstrous scientists are indeed killing off cute little kitties in their thousands just to prove some arcane point. Imagine posting an irl picture of a stack of cat corpses, along with OP's pic, with some sort of expose headline. "Has your cat gone missing? This is what probably happened to it. Every year tens of thousands of our feline friends are taken by gangs and then sold to scientists who then conduct experiments designed to test quantum physics..." Guaranteed the retards would believe that shit and cause an uproar. Fuck just posting some shit like on reddit would be enough. And the best part is that vanishingly few people would believe the truth even if it was explained to them in simple terms, even fewer would understand what is meant by a "thought experiment".

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 09 Dec 2021 13:48:13 No.13942783 Report

Quoted By:

IT WAS SUPPOSED TO BE A JOKE
the cat is a reference to silly explanations
there is no "dead" or "alive" indicator
you don't have a valid measurement

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 09 Dec 2021 13:56:05 No.13942798 Report

Quoted By:

>>13942304
Schrödinger's gave this example to demonstrate how ridiculous he thought some peoples interpretation of QM was. He absolutely believed in superposition though.

Today most physicist would agree with you, interactions with the environment (decoherence) would cause an instantaneous wavefunction collapse so the cat would always be in a defined state.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 09 Dec 2021 14:00:45 No.13942807 Report

Quoted By: >>13946900 >>13946907

>>13942446
>you don't know if radiation was detected until you open the box/collapse the wave function
The thing I don't get about this is, the universe exists whether we measure it or not, so why do we interpret the math to mean the wave function collapses on measurement?

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 09 Dec 2021 14:53:27 No.13942937 Report

Quoted By:

>>13942780
Fauci did this.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 09 Dec 2021 15:07:28 No.13942975 Report

Quoted By:

>>13942546
Only to an extant. Ofcourse he saw the problems of COPEnhagen interpetation. The lines between "quantum states" and classical physics wasn't an easy boundary to cross into.

The copenhagen mechanism copes with this issue with various methods with varying problems associated with it. 1) Claim a soul is required 2) Claim there are two worlds, world of quantum and classical 3) claim that quantum mechanics is a hoax and has no relevance to "real world"

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 09 Dec 2021 17:53:04 No.13943398 Report

Quoted By: >>13948269

>>13942586
This is something that I haven't understood about this. If you don't have the information, what's the difference? It might as well be both. Can we prove that it isn't?

Anonymous

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Anonymous Fri 10 Dec 2021 05:03:22 No.13945600 Report

Quoted By:

Hi, scrotumdonger's cat is the only aspect of quantum physics that I'm familiar with because everything I know about science comes from Hollywood movies and comic books.
May I participate in this ITT thread?

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 10 Dec 2021 16:12:05 No.13946883 Report

Quoted By:

>>13942546
>He only mocked stupid philosophags who mistook this mathematical model for some ontological bullshit.
why not go one step further? QM is not JUST merely a mathematical model it's a statistical model, that isn't meant to represent a physical process, but characterizes the frequencies of outcomes of a physical process considered to be random.

Anonymous

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Anonymous Fri 10 Dec 2021 16:17:46 No.13946900 Report

Quoted By: >>13946912

>>13942807
One discrete electron passes through two slits at the same time. This is due to a discrete maximum speed. The wiggle room is in the delay between the experiment and your eye. The lesson to learn is that the medium of interaction is the bulb filament and the wall with nothing in between. There are no little projectiles being emitted out purely in space. The medium is space not spacetime.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 10 Dec 2021 16:22:28 No.13946907 Report

Quoted By: >>13946917

>>13942807
>the universe exists whether we measure it or not
measurement constructs reality, universe is just a spreadsheet without observation

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 10 Dec 2021 16:23:50 No.13946912 Report

Quoted By: >>13947484

>>13946900
this is a thought experiment by Feynman that Feynman said could never be performed.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 10 Dec 2021 16:24:56 No.13946917 Report

Quoted By:

>>13946907
>measurement constructs reality
no. you are just making the error of thinking a statistic is a physical process.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 10 Dec 2021 16:32:11 No.13946934 Report

Quoted By: >>13947431

>>13942304
How do you know it is actually alive or dead? What if it's in some kind of pending state while it's not being observed, like how video games do graphics rendering? What if the universe calculates alive or dead not constantly but as soon as the universe needs to know because it will affect something else (in this case, what the person observing it sees)

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 10 Dec 2021 16:40:46 No.13946956 Report

Quoted By: >>13946971

>>13942546
Schrodinger was a HEAVY proponent of Hindu religion.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 10 Dec 2021 16:46:30 No.13946970 Report

Quoted By: >>13948276

here is the only ration way to interpret QM.

you have 1000 cats and 1000 boxes with 1000 quantum termination mechanisms inside
you only gather living cats so their probability of being alive is one
you put the 1000 cats into the 1000 boxes.
you sit down and play with schrodingers equation
you get 0.5
what this 0.5 means is once you open the boxes you expect to find 500 dead cats and 500 living cats
the cats are either alive or dead at all times
you open the boxes
you find 480 dead and 520 living cats

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 10 Dec 2021 16:47:36 No.13946971 Report

Quoted By:

>>13946956
Not really. He was not even Hindu himself

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 10 Dec 2021 17:16:27 No.13947052 Report

Quoted By:

>>13942304
Schrody was taking the piss out of his contemporaries. Why the fuck are you asking about it seriously?

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 10 Dec 2021 17:25:33 No.13947075 Report

Quoted By: >>13947505

Woah woah woah there OP. The concept of using detection of radioactivity to drive a switch or some mass like a relay is the principle behind a Geiger counter.
Frankly I think this whole story exists to sell probability theory, especially the formulation with measure spaces. However, it's really more a matter of gambling and statistics rather than physics. So it's certainly part of math and part of the origin of modern math in the study Gauss made of craps and other gambling games of chance.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 10 Dec 2021 17:48:34 No.13947150 Report

Quoted By: >>13947535

>>13942304
A cat is not a quantum object.
Therefore it can't be in a superposition of states.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 10 Dec 2021 19:02:57 No.13947431 Report

Quoted By: >>13947525

>>13946934
If this is all a simulation, how many glitches have been reproduced and recorded?

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 10 Dec 2021 19:20:22 No.13947484 Report

Quoted By:

>>13946912
Internal state is a medium of interaction. Intrinsic properties like temperature and emissivity are due to internal configuration just the same as shape.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 10 Dec 2021 19:25:13 No.13947505 Report

Quoted By:

>>13947075
>t. ai who doesnt understand the topic of the thread

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 10 Dec 2021 19:29:20 No.13947525 Report

Quoted By:

>>13947431
How would you be able to recognize a glitch from inside a system that is glitching? You have no reference for how actual reality should look. For example what if you saw some cat that glitched 2ft away from where it should be, how would you know the cat is in the wrong place?

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 10 Dec 2021 19:36:47 No.13947535 Report

Quoted By:

>>13947150
Information about the cat is a quantum state and can be in a superposition

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 10 Dec 2021 19:40:43 No.13947551 Report

Quoted By:

>>13942304
You do understand radiation doesn't instantly kill you and the amount of background radiation is measurable, right?

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 10 Dec 2021 23:03:01 No.13948269 Report

Quoted By:

>>13943398
>If you don't have the information, what's the difference? It might as well be both.
That's exactly what the thought excitementillustrates, you obviously got it right.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 10 Dec 2021 23:04:37 No.13948276 Report

Quoted By:

>>13946970
I can calculate with 100% certainty you will have PETA breathing down your neck

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