/sci/ - Science & Math » Thread #13894671

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Anonymous Sat 27 Nov 01:05:50 2021 No.13894671 View Reply Original Report

Quoted By: >>13894679 >>13894680 >>13894732 >>13894755 >>13894808 >>13894811 >>13894848

this one scientist is telling us not to trust the other scientists.
what do you think about this issue /sci/?

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 27 Nov 2021 01:09:35 No.13894679 Report

Quoted By: >>13894722

>>13894671
>Here's this imaginary strawman scenario that doesn't happen
>heh...anyone else hate scientists??? ;)

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 27 Nov 2021 01:09:40 No.13894680 Report

Quoted By:

>>13894671
What's his PhD in? Also, "many" is not a very good descriptive word. I consider 20 to be many. I also consider 10,000 to be many. He isn't wrong because he's so incredibly vague.
If I just posted a tweet that said "Wow, lots of white people are murderers, many of them mass murderers." Would I be wrong? No. Would I be intentionally misleading people? Yes.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 27 Nov 2021 01:22:44 No.13894722 Report

Quoted By:

>>13894679
Yes, I agree. Scientists are all perfect people, unlike the rest of us. They do no wrong.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 27 Nov 2021 01:25:57 No.13894732 Report

Quoted By: >>13894746 >>13894791

>>13894671
I think it's absolutely true that scientists can and do lie, however I don't think that is a point that anyone would seriously contest to begin with and it also applies to any subset of humanity you want.

However, unlike regular Joes, scientists caught lying or fudging data will usually face repercussions and lose their job, so they have a greater incentive to tell the truth. It's also dishonest to portray scientists as hell-bent on maintaining the status quo, they cream their pants at the thought of being able to definitively say that the things everyone else has been saying are wrong before and be the first to do it.

Lastly, I think anyone whose Twitter name is "Name, PhD" and handle "Dr. whatever" is a massive tool.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 27 Nov 2021 01:26:33 No.13894733 Report

Quoted By:

he's projecting
>i lie about my data so everyone else does too

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 27 Nov 2021 01:31:14 No.13894746 Report

Quoted By: >>13894754 >>13894797

>>13894732
>so they have a greater incentive to tell the truth
Or a greater incentive to lie.
If everyone is being paid off does it pay to be a whistleblower who will be mocked, ridiculed, and black balled out of your industry?

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 27 Nov 2021 01:33:20 No.13894754 Report

Quoted By: >>13894777 >>13894849

>>13894746
>If everyone is being paid off
except everyone is not being 'paid off'. The world is not one big giant conspiracy led by some cabal of jews or something.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 27 Nov 2021 01:33:27 No.13894755 Report

Quoted By:

>>13894671
>drreality

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 27 Nov 2021 01:38:15 No.13894767 Report

Quoted By: >>13894784

Im convinced most scientists are just bugmen until proven otherwise, mathematicans and some computer scientists get slack and somehow seem less autistic but every other field seems like a giant snakepit

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 27 Nov 2021 01:41:02 No.13894777 Report

Quoted By:

>>13894754
>big giant conspiracy led by some cabal of jews
Imagine. That would be crazy...haha

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 27 Nov 2021 01:43:01 No.13894784 Report

Quoted By: >>13894801

>>13894767
>mathematicans and some computer scientists [...] somehow seem less autistic

dude what

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 27 Nov 2021 01:48:39 No.13894791 Report

Quoted By: >>13894796 >>13894801 >>13894840 >>13894852

>>13894732
>However, unlike regular Joes, scientists caught lying or fudging data will usually face repercussions and lose their job,
This is bullshit, there are entire fields that weren't aware that p-hacking was academic fraud until the last couple years. As in just arbitrarily removing inconvenient data points until p<=.5 and then calling it a positive result. Academic fraud is rampant and nobody does anything about it because pointing out that half the papers in your field are worthless garbage gets you at best stuck in tenure hell where nobody talks to you for the next 40 years and you will never get a raise or be able to work at a different school. When a grad student does it they are essentially blacklisted from the field.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 27 Nov 2021 01:49:59 No.13894796 Report

Quoted By: >>13894822

>>13894791
>t. someone with at best a bachelor's degree who's never worked in research

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 27 Nov 2021 01:50:02 No.13894797 Report

Quoted By: >>13894893

>>13894746
Do you have any idea of how difficult it is to get scientist to agree on anything even within the same department? Let alone trying to somehow get people across disciplines and continents to all tell the same lies.

Of course, what you need to keep in mind is that you almost certainly do not actually read what the scientists write. You read what the journalists or various institutions write, and maybe the abstract of a single paper that they've decided to use as an example. Or, worse still, you read the headlines that some retard on a vietnamese fly-fishing forum links with schizo rants.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 27 Nov 2021 01:51:13 No.13894801 Report

Quoted By:

>>13894784
i suppose thats a bad way to put it because they definitely arent but they're less bugmen and slightly more grounded from what ive noticed. Every scientist ive seen, talked to or seen interviewed just act seem less put together they just vomit information and somehow think that's cool. Mathematicians and comp sci vomit info but they understand it might not be cool or needed. Maybe its just comfirmation bias idk. I think it has to do with this >>13894791 since science has a lot of shady things going on

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 27 Nov 2021 01:51:37 No.13894802 Report

Quoted By:

>twitter is science
no
>scientists use twitter
not for science they don't

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 27 Nov 2021 01:54:17 No.13894808 Report

Quoted By: >>13894905

>>13894671
Across 6 years in academia and 4 in industry I've never come across a single scientist who would do that. Maybe it's because I'm not American.
Plenty of them have been borderline incompetent though and capable of making mistakes. I could see some of the engineers I've worked with doing that stuff but not the scientists.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 27 Nov 2021 01:54:45 No.13894811 Report

Quoted By:

>>13894671

But you can say that about literally any profession ever. Of course there's corrupt people and bad actors, it's a very general statement because all he's saying is that "Some people are bad". If there are actually serious problems of corruption at his workplace he should speak up and say something about it instead of this nothing statement.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 27 Nov 2021 01:55:20 No.13894814 Report

Quoted By: >>13894852

If anyone wants an example of how much fraud there is, just asking an author of a published paper for their dataset sends them into panic mode. They immediately assume you are accusing them of fraud. If they don't believe you are a distinguished enough member of their field they will just tell you to fuck off. If you are a grand student word will get around that you are a troublemaker and advisors will tell their grad students to stay away from you. This is just asking politely for a dataset even on so called open papers you will get the same response.
NAMS especially are untouchable, there are several female professors at ivy league and t10 schools where all their peers know their published graduate work was entirely fraudulent, there are absolutely no consequences for them and they still got tenure.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 27 Nov 2021 01:56:56 No.13894822 Report

Quoted By:

>>13894796
Yes the fact that you all know all your papers are trash and you just have to write them because publish or perish doesn't help your case any.

Anonymous

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Anonymous Sat 27 Nov 2021 02:02:31 No.13894840 Report

Quoted By: >>13894863

>>13894791
>because pointing out that half the papers in your field are worthless garbage gets you at best stuck in tenure hell where nobody talks to you for the next 40 years and you will never get a raise or be able to work at a different school.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_G._Tifft
dude was unlucky enough to look through a telescope and see something that contradicted big bang dogma
then when he saw it, he was dumb enough to publish it
quoted text is his life story, i didn't realize that tale was so common that it was a somewhat widely known stereotype.
what other scientists fit the story?

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 27 Nov 2021 02:04:13 No.13894848 Report

Quoted By:

>>13894671

It is a sign of low IQ to only think in extremes.

If you read carefully, he said SOME scientists do lie. And of course they do. Would you seriously pour money and effort into something and then tell the world you were deeply fucking wrong?

Science rewards prestige, you are basically a machine that shits out articles. Have a brilliant theory? Better not take any risks. Have a finding? Make it three similar articles instead of one.

The science world is weird and it is ridiculous how normies think "science say this, it is correct!" while in reality it is often one theory of many, moreoften than not not even the best, just the most popular.

Ah well, we are only mere humans, aren't we?

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 27 Nov 2021 02:04:28 No.13894849 Report

Quoted By:

>>13894754
hockey stick

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 27 Nov 2021 02:05:12 No.13894852 Report

Quoted By:

>>13894791
Outright fraud is called out when noticed and leads to consequences, usually ending your research career. Dodgy data processing and selection bias are more difficult, especially in fields which don't use statistical analysis as routine, but any important claims which rely on these effects will turn out to not be repetable. If anyone bothers to call you on on something that's wrong but not deliberate misleading you usually just get egg on your face.

>>13894814
I haven't found this to be the case. However asking someone for a dataset that was probably gathered by some idiot grad student who left 5 years ago, didn't organize their data and didn't keep notes is just a giant pain in the dick.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 27 Nov 2021 02:09:16 No.13894863 Report

Quoted By: >>13894870 >>13894964

>>13894840
>contradicting evidence is abrahamic religions
So by contradicting, do you mean the ridiculous number of times that those stories contradict themselves? Do you mean contradicting as in every biological, archaeological, geographical, and historical piece of evidence contradicts what's in the abrahamic religious stories? Or do you just mean contradicting in that you just don't understand anything about astronomy? I'd like to know which one.

>inb4 he claims that the stories in the religious texts about creation are true
I don't converse with schizophrenics about science so don't try it.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 27 Nov 2021 02:11:48 No.13894870 Report

Quoted By: >>13894879

>>13894863
Why do people who grew up with neurotic religious parents always blame religion for the way their parents acted. At the end of the day there’s more neuroticist atheist and hedonist parents than religious ones.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 27 Nov 2021 02:16:41 No.13894879 Report

Quoted By: >>13894896 >>13894934

>>13894870
>At the end of the day there’s more neuroticist atheist and hedonist parents than religious ones
Patently false
>Why do people who grew up with neurotic religious parents always blame religion for the way their parents acted?
>Dad, I like this girl, what should I do?
>Son, you disgusting pig you're only 14 I swear to God if you think about sex or jack off not only will I beat you because it literally orders me to do so in this holy book, but you will LITERALLY burn in a lake of fire for all of eternity! But if by chance you just so happen to rape her then we will force you two to be married, again, by order of this holy book.
Oh, hmmm, I don't know.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 27 Nov 2021 02:20:48 No.13894893 Report

Quoted By:

>>13894797
>Do you have any idea of how difficult it is to get scientist to agree on anything
Sounds like there is plenty of room for scams and false studies to be entered into the public milieu, referenced, used to promote some corporate bullshit and when it's eventually shot down by peer review, after a decade or two, the company or companies have already made a couple billion off the lie.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 27 Nov 2021 02:22:11 No.13894896 Report

Quoted By: >>13894919

>>13894879
you need help

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 27 Nov 2021 02:24:31 No.13894905 Report

Quoted By: >>13894927

>>13894808
>Maybe it's because I'm not American.
You just admitted only American scientists are corrupt? What?

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 27 Nov 2021 02:29:17 No.13894919 Report

Quoted By:

>>13894896
>asks question
>gets answer
>gets angry
I'm not the unstable one here

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 27 Nov 2021 02:31:26 No.13894927 Report

Quoted By: >>13894972

>>13894905
American in general seem more cut-throat/pursuant of money. I'm not saying they are, I'm saying that I haven't been on that side of the pond to see what it's like there.
That said it's irrelevant since all the schizo conspiracies that come up here are not things unique to American scientists, they're things that are globally agreed upon.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 27 Nov 2021 02:34:50 No.13894934 Report

Quoted By:

>>13894879
Atheist parents
>Dad, I'm a cock suckin' homo and believe I'm the opposite gender. Will you assist me in taking pills that will block my natural ascent into the adult form of my actual gender so that I can play pretend as a degenerate weirdo?
>Son, we're so proud of you and we'll go ahead a start saving for life changing genital mutilation surgery so you can seethe and dilate like a real GIRL™ for the rest of your short and miserable life until you eventually join the 40%

Anonymous

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Anonymous Sat 27 Nov 2021 02:46:59 No.13894964 Report

Quoted By:

>>13894863
maybe you're not familiar with tift's career, research or the history of mid 20th century astronomy. the same anger you're experiencing seeing his research posted here now, was also felt by tiff's academic colleagues back then. tift's evidence was making them all look dumb and that made them angry and they got their revenge by shutting him up.
if tift had come along 10 years later he could've just chalked it all up to dark matter and everyone would've been satisfied.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 27 Nov 2021 02:49:18 No.13894972 Report

Quoted By:

>>13894927
Makes sense to me, thank you for clarifying.

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