/sci/ - Science & Math » Thread #13850567

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Anonymous Sun 14 Nov 01:17:31 2021 No.13850567 View Reply Original Report

Quoted By: >>13850586 >>13850596 >>13850852 >>13851598 >>13854283 >>13855756 >>13858049 >>13858510 >>13860069

If you stand two uncharged conductive plates a few nanometers apart from each other, in an otherwise void and empty environment, a literal vacuum, then the plates will magically be pushed together and make physical contact. This is because nothingness itself has fluctuating values of energy that push the plates together. Can somebody explain this?

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 14 Nov 2021 01:24:01 No.13850586 Report

Quoted By:

>>13850567

'nothing' doesn't exist. Even when there are no particles (in a vacuum) the quantum field still exists. The casimir effect is really a statememnt about the zero-point energy of the electromagnetic field being lowered when two conductors are nearby, and the field is required to be zero at the conductors.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 14 Nov 2021 01:26:18 No.13850596 Report

Quoted By:

>>13850567
>magically
It's the van der Waals force, nothing magical about it.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 14 Nov 2021 02:47:13 No.13850852 Report

Quoted By: >>13853993

>>13850567
>in an otherwise void and empty environment, a literal vacuum,
the reality is nothing is a perfect vacuum, so it's likely just the inability of gas particles to get between the plates leading to a lower pressure inside.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 14 Nov 2021 05:21:35 No.13851200 Report

Quoted By:

>>13848991
I kneel

Anonymous

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Anonymous Sun 14 Nov 2021 05:34:04 No.13851220 Report

Quoted By: >>13858463

if you made pic related out of metal you would get limitless free energy from atmospheric electricity
https://youtu.be/2rVdEhyMR6A

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 14 Nov 2021 07:32:59 No.13851379 Report

Quoted By:

you push the aether out then the external pressure pushes the plates. simple as.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 14 Nov 2021 10:13:31 No.13851598 Report

Quoted By: >>13852882

>>13850567
proof?

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 14 Nov 2021 20:29:54 No.13852882 Report

Quoted By: >>13859462

>>13851598
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Casimir_effect

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 14 Nov 2021 20:44:19 No.13852930 Report

Quoted By: >>13853650 >>13855768 >>13855879

The vacuum isn't empty. Is it actually full of tiny quantum oscillations. When you push the two plates close enough you restrict the number of oscillations that can occur within that tiny gap - you have created a space where only fixed modes are allowed. So outside the plates you have lots of oscillations, inside less, and the difference causes a microscopic inward force.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 15 Nov 2021 00:32:25 No.13853650 Report

Quoted By: >>13853781 >>13856220

>>13852930
>The vacuum isn't empty. Is it actually full of tiny quantum oscillations.
these are the people calling you schizo.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 15 Nov 2021 01:12:16 No.13853781 Report

Quoted By: >>13853782

>>13853650
go away, schizo

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 15 Nov 2021 01:13:49 No.13853782 Report

Quoted By: >>13853798 >>13853936

>>13853781
>go away, schizo
exactly. BTW is any of what you said falsifiable?

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 15 Nov 2021 01:19:35 No.13853798 Report

Quoted By: >>13853903

>>13853782
I wasn't the one who said it, and I will not waste my time entertaining schizos

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 15 Nov 2021 02:01:15 No.13853903 Report

Quoted By:

>>13853798
>I wasn't the one who said it, and I will not waste my time entertaining schizos
so you think he is wrong?

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 15 Nov 2021 02:17:39 No.13853936 Report

Quoted By: >>13853977 >>13855774

>>13853782
Quantum field theory seems pretty falsifiable to me.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 15 Nov 2021 02:29:51 No.13853977 Report

Quoted By: >>13854188

>>13853936
>Quantum field theory seems pretty falsifiable to me.
ok. how would you go about proving or disproving the existence of these invisible oscillators made of nothing?

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 15 Nov 2021 02:35:07 No.13853993 Report

Quoted By:

>>13850852
This makes the most sense to me

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 15 Nov 2021 03:59:04 No.13854188 Report

Quoted By: >>13854264 >>13854696

>>13853977
By placing two plates close together and seeing what happens, and how it compares to the predictions of QFT.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 15 Nov 2021 04:49:44 No.13854264 Report

Quoted By: >>13854720

>>13854188
>By placing two plates close together and seeing what happens, and how it compares to the predictions of QFT.
so something like this
1. make up equation
2. make up fitting constants
3. make up rules to match observation
4. make up interpretation to fit observation

wow! look at what QFT predicted!

Ouranous

Ouranous Mon 15 Nov 2021 05:02:26 No.13854283 Report

Quoted By:

>>13850567
Mach conjecture

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 15 Nov 2021 09:25:08 No.13854696 Report

Quoted By:

>>13854188
I think it's the hand of God that pushes the plates together
BTW the calculation is the same so the predicted force is the same as QFT :)
If you dislike my explanation, you have to accept nature as she is: absurd!

Anonymous

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Anonymous Mon 15 Nov 2021 09:36:12 No.13854720 Report

Quoted By: >>13854790 >>13855768

>>13854264
Only correct answer in this thread.
Also, physishits don't know what they are doing since they don't do rigoros, proof-based work. Most physishit professors will be unable to proof simple propositions from real analysis.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 15 Nov 2021 10:00:27 No.13854790 Report

Quoted By:

>>13854720
>post
True.
>pic
Hilbert was a brainlet that unironically caused the current situation, both in physics and in mathematics, by simping for Einstein and Cantor respectively.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 15 Nov 2021 16:51:23 No.13855756 Report

Quoted By: >>13855768

>>13850567
>If you stand two uncharged conductive plates a few nanometers apart from each other, in an otherwise void and empty environment, a literal vacuum, then the plates will magically be pushed together and make physical contact. This is because nothingness itself has fluctuating values of energy that push the plates together. Can somebody explain this?
Midwit pop s o y i e n c e

its literally just van der waals force not muh spooky virtual particles

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 15 Nov 2021 16:54:29 No.13855768 Report

Quoted By:

>>13854720
>>13855756
Ironically when I think about
>>13852930
It seems like a rebooting of the aether

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 15 Nov 2021 16:55:49 No.13855774 Report

Quoted By:

>>13853936
it's false not falsifiable

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 15 Nov 2021 17:22:03 No.13855879 Report

Quoted By: >>13858814 >>13859373

>>13852930
This is the correct explanation afaik. However if true then wouldn't there would be a casimir effect, no matter how minuscule, between any two objects, no matter what shape or how far part, even light years apart?

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 15 Nov 2021 19:10:42 No.13856220 Report

Quoted By:

>>13853650
>he doesn't know that the mass of "real" quarks like 1% of the mass of a nucleon

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 16 Nov 2021 07:54:10 No.13858049 Report

Quoted By:

>>13850567
>in an otherwise void and empty environment, a literal vacuum
Shrink down below Planck level, and you'll finally be in "empty" space.

Anonymous

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Anonymous Tue 16 Nov 2021 11:32:15 No.13858463 Report

Quoted By: >>13858465

>>13851220
Electrostatic motors have poor torque, sweet F A current and bad susceptibility to moisture.
they're literally gayer than Peter Allen.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 16 Nov 2021 11:34:38 No.13858465 Report

Quoted By: >>13858469 >>13858473

>>13858463
electrostatic motors are irrelevant to the point i'm making. Optimise m2/m3, resistance and height of the conductor and you get free power

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 16 Nov 2021 11:36:25 No.13858469 Report

Quoted By: >>13858494

>>13858465
Wow!! are we talking microamps or milliamps?

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 16 Nov 2021 11:40:02 No.13858473 Report

Quoted By: >>13858494 >>13858512

>>13858465
>free power
How much of that is just rectifying noise-signal from your wire antenna?

Anonymous

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Anonymous Tue 16 Nov 2021 11:55:38 No.13858494 Report

Quoted By: >>13858500 >>13858512 >>13859386

>>13858469
>100v/m
don't need much efficiency there bud
>>13858473
the video just shows the idea. the optimised design is the pic related or maybe this posts pic related would improve it. If you think of voltage as water pressure and and current as velocity it's just a venturi nozzle. Bernoulli equation

Anonymous

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Anonymous Tue 16 Nov 2021 12:00:30 No.13858500 Report

Quoted By: >>13858512

>>13858494

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 16 Nov 2021 12:05:40 No.13858510 Report

Quoted By:

>>13850567
wont they attract anyway at that distance?

Anonymous

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Anonymous Tue 16 Nov 2021 12:07:14 No.13858512 Report

Quoted By: >>13858516

>>13858494
>don't need much efficiency there bud
Is that with weather conditions in the middle of Australia?
you don't actually think its the same everywhere, do you?
>>100v/m
...and you think you can draw whatever current you please from that voltage?
>>>13858473
>the video just shows the idea. the optimised design is the pic related or maybe this posts pic related would improve it. If you think of voltage as water pressure and and current as velocity it's just a venturi nozzle. Bernoulli equation
Did you not read the bit about moisture?
so if you have an "electrostatic" potential-difference and think you can draw on it as if its able to supply current you need without fold-back?

>>13858500
Are you putting that at Uluru?
what will you do at the end of summer?

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 16 Nov 2021 12:09:21 No.13858516 Report

Quoted By: >>13858517

>>13858512
>rockefeller shill
ngmi

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 16 Nov 2021 12:10:30 No.13858517 Report

Quoted By: >>13858520

>>13858516
>rockefeller shill
>>100v/m
what about at night when theres no sunlight therefore more moisture?

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 16 Nov 2021 12:11:37 No.13858520 Report

Quoted By: >>13858537

>>13858517
https://youtu.be/yJUO5TJ3Rz0

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 16 Nov 2021 12:22:28 No.13858537 Report

Quoted By: >>13858540

>>13858520
I'd recommend asking your high school science teacher to give you a run down on how things work..
It will save you a lot of time.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 16 Nov 2021 12:23:30 No.13858540 Report

Quoted By:

>>13858537
will do

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 16 Nov 2021 15:00:12 No.13858814 Report

Quoted By:

>>13855879
Yeah, but thankfully nothingness is expanding faster so all is well.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 16 Nov 2021 18:27:44 No.13859373 Report

Quoted By:

>>13855879
Sure, possibly. But it would be unmeasurably small.

Anonymous

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Anonymous Tue 16 Nov 2021 18:32:53 No.13859386 Report

Quoted By: >>13859437

>>13858494
It's 100 V/m only when it's ungrounded.
A tall antenna will basically short the electric field very close to 0.

No, you're not gonna be drawing any reasonable amounts of energy from atmospheric electric potentials.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 16 Nov 2021 18:49:02 No.13859437 Report

Quoted By: >>13859451

>>13859386
the point of the fractal nature of the conductor is to lower the connection resistance between the air-conductor so all the voltage isn't dropped above the conductor.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 16 Nov 2021 18:56:28 No.13859451 Report

Quoted By: >>13859454 >>13859457

>>13859437
Yes, those are all words.

The "fractal conductor" doesn't serve any purpose. It's just a way to please free energy schizos.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 16 Nov 2021 18:57:28 No.13859454 Report

Quoted By:

>>13859451
kek

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 16 Nov 2021 18:58:35 No.13859457 Report

Quoted By: >>13859458 >>13859484

>>13859451
>The "fractal conductor" doesn't serve any purpose.
yes it does. it increases the surface area. Triboelectricity and atmospheric electricity is real, bro. The problem is just to reduce the air-conductor interconnect resistance.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 16 Nov 2021 18:59:47 No.13859458 Report

Quoted By: >>13859476

>>13859457
Exactly. It serves no purpose. It doesn't matter that it mimicks a fractal pattern.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 16 Nov 2021 19:01:17 No.13859462 Report

Quoted By:

>>13852882
but its never been observed...

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 16 Nov 2021 19:08:24 No.13859476 Report

Quoted By: >>13859495 >>13860081

>>13859458
>It serves no purpose
if you could achieve that fractal in reality

infinite surface area
connection resistance is inversely proportional to surface area.
triboelectric effect is proportional to surface area
all current must flow to ground no tangential current possible.

it would work and the shape would serve a purpose.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 16 Nov 2021 19:10:39 No.13859484 Report

Quoted By: >>13859488 >>13860073

>>13859457
>atmospheric electricity is real, bro
? I never denied that they are. There are ionised particles in the atmosphere creating a potential to Earth. The issue is that they aren't really usable for energy gathering.

The rate at which the charges gather is something in the picoampere range per square meter. If you had a 1 km tall antenna with a 1 m^2 collector surface and you could push those charges at their full potential (which wouldn't happen) of the voltage difference between ground level and 1 km in air, you'd still only be able to create an electrical power of hundreds of nanowatts. That's for a continuous flow of charges. You might potentially be able to have more power for short periods of current flow as you remove the ions from the air in the area.

In fact, you are likely going to be collecting and rectifying radiowaves signals present in the air which carry magnitudes more energy but at this point, you aren't collecting free energy. You're just collecting energy someone else emitted into the air.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 16 Nov 2021 19:11:32 No.13859486 Report

Quoted By:

Nothing doesn't actually exist. Parmenides proved this like 2,500 years ago and all attempts to create or prove absolute vacuum have failed since. What is not cannot be.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 16 Nov 2021 19:12:28 No.13859488 Report

Quoted By:

>>13859484
>If you had a 1 km tall antenna with a 1 m^2 collector surface
thats why you need a shape like in the pic. you get infinite surface area. the only problem is manufacturing it.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 16 Nov 2021 19:18:01 No.13859495 Report

Quoted By:

>>13859476
Increasing surface area by turning your collector surface into a fractal won't make it better.

The charges come from the air so the air has to be able to flow around the surface of your collector to deposit those charges onto it. If you make your smooth collector less smooth you won't increase the current by any noticeable rate.

Assuming that your proposition of a fractal collector works (which it does not because electric fields don't behave this way) you'd just end up depleting charges in the air around your collector and the current would now be limited by the rate at which the charges are created/replaced.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 16 Nov 2021 22:32:32 No.13860069 Report

Quoted By:

>>13850567
gravity?

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 16 Nov 2021 22:33:45 No.13860073 Report

Quoted By: >>13861282

>>13859484
the variable isn't surface area it's surface area per volume

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 16 Nov 2021 22:35:53 No.13860081 Report

Quoted By:

>>13859476
what's the surface area of the us electrical grid?

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 17 Nov 2021 06:09:56 No.13861282 Report

Quoted By:

>>13860073
>what's the surface area of the us electrical grid?
looks like you failed to read this before posting.
>>13860073

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