/sci/ - Science & Math » Thread #13821318

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Anonymous Fri 05 Nov 08:45:46 2021 No.13821318 View Reply Original Report

Quoted By: >>13821331 >>13821354 >>13821357 >>13821434 >>13821598 >>13821763 >>13821836 >>13822212 >>13822963 >>13823942

Can anyone debunk this?

Say if the car's electric motor is powering the front wheels and we have these electric generators on the back wheels, would the energy collected by them not be higher than the friction they add? What if they were magnetic (frictionless) generators?

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 05 Nov 2021 08:51:30 No.13821331 Report

Quoted By: >>13821340 >>13822474

>>13821318

Yeah it’s called regenerative breaking and you’ll only net like 60% of your energy back. It’s been a thing in hybrids for decades

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 05 Nov 2021 08:53:21 No.13821335 Report

Quoted By:

Ah yes, also why not put lots of wind turbines all over the car to also gather wind power

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 05 Nov 2021 08:55:29 No.13821340 Report

Quoted By: >>13821439

>>13821331
Doesn't that only gather enegry from friction of braking like the nae suggests?

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 05 Nov 2021 09:03:37 No.13821354 Report

Quoted By: >>13821751

>>13821318
1st law of thermodynamics

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 05 Nov 2021 09:05:24 No.13821357 Report

Quoted By: >>13821384 >>13822266

>>13821318
Uh... The wheels will have to turn harder to turn the generator... Its a net loss...

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 05 Nov 2021 09:16:45 No.13821384 Report

Quoted By: >>13821392 >>13821774 >>13825859

>>13821357
Not necesarily, It could be one of these electromagnetic generators where a magnet moves around a copper coil generating electricity.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 05 Nov 2021 09:21:18 No.13821392 Report

Quoted By:

>>13821384
There would still be friction.
Also if there was no friction there would 0 net gain in energy.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 05 Nov 2021 09:36:41 No.13821431 Report

Quoted By:

i don't see how that total faggot thinks he can make energy without boiling water, it simply can't be done

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 05 Nov 2021 09:38:21 No.13821434 Report

Quoted By: >>13827459

>>13821318
>magnetic (frictionless)
those still generate a electromagnetic counter-torque, that takes more energy to counteract than the generator can provide

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 05 Nov 2021 09:39:35 No.13821439 Report

Quoted By:

>>13821340
No, you can't really get the energy back once it's used to heat the brake discs. Instead, you use the electric motor as the brake, turning it into a generator. You slow down without even touching the brake.

Anonymous

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Anonymous Fri 05 Nov 2021 10:42:07 No.13821598 Report

Quoted By: >>13822016

>>13821318
Been there, done that

Anonymous

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Anonymous Fri 05 Nov 2021 11:55:31 No.13821751 Report

Quoted By: >>13821776 >>13822232 >>13823867

>>13821354
Retard the 1st low says this is possible if he had no dissipative forces, all he needs to do is to use lots of oil.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 05 Nov 2021 12:03:55 No.13821763 Report

Quoted By:

>>13821318
Battery drives motor, motor drives wheel, wheel drives generator, generator charges battery. If there was no friction or any other loss of energy the net gain would be zero.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 05 Nov 2021 12:09:29 No.13821774 Report

Quoted By:

>>13821384
The thing many people don't realize is that a spinning magnet experiences mechanical resistance when it's generating current. That's why dropping a magnet through a pipe causes it fall slow, because the current generated pushes back. You can actually notice this by shorting the terminals of a permanent magnet DC motor and spinning the shaft with your hand vs not shorting it

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 05 Nov 2021 12:09:59 No.13821776 Report

Quoted By:

>>13821751
i'm sure covering the car and tires with oil will get rid of all friction and air resistance somehow, yes

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 05 Nov 2021 12:34:01 No.13821836 Report

Quoted By:

>>13821318
the generator spins freely as long you are not using the electricity it produces. as soon you shunt it into a battery the generator shaft will generate so much resistance that it effectively brakes, you need more battery power to overcome that braking torque than the generator will produce. even if you do not use the electricity , not connecting the poles to anything, you will just have the friction of the generator wasting power. there is no energy gain situation in any of those scenarios , you just wont beat thermodynamics with a retarded chevy bolt modification or anything else

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 05 Nov 2021 13:27:50 No.13822004 Report

Quoted By:

There is no magnetic frictionless generator retard. Ill keep it simple for you. You ever take a physics class and they take a magnetic and throw it down a copper tube? Wow it falls down slow why is that? Its almost like they are transferring energy from the falling object causing the object to lose energy and because of this there is a sort of transference of energy creating resistance to where the magnetic wants to go.

You ever spin an electric generator before by hand without it hooked up? Its super easy. But if you hook it up there is a lot of resistance this is because you are doing work and in the other you aren't. Conversation of energy is conserved.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 05 Nov 2021 13:33:44 No.13822016 Report

Quoted By:

>>13821598
holy shit, it works
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qxZKLUAzQ7g

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 05 Nov 2021 14:42:40 No.13822212 Report

Quoted By:

>>13821318
Well you need to put more power in the car to drive the car and the generator, you just decrease the acceleration of the car.

Regenerative breaking works only while breaking, when you want to slow down the cars speed anyways

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 05 Nov 2021 14:51:18 No.13822232 Report

Quoted By:

>>13821751
The dissipative forces are the inertia in the wheel and this energy is captured by the air around it, a fucking car isn't a closed system.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 05 Nov 2021 15:08:08 No.13822266 Report

Quoted By: >>13825746

>>13821357
>Its a net loss...
is it a net loss? Thats entirely your own speculation retard. Think for a fucking second how much rolling resistance a car has already. There is a point of diminishing returns and eventual net loss, but its not something that immediately happens.

Does your car coast when you let off the gas? Yes? Well shit guess theres some net energy not being extracted. You're no /sci/entist

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 05 Nov 2021 16:28:58 No.13822474 Report

Quoted By: >>13823845

>>13821331
Just checked and regenerative breaking adds 13% of range to Teslas according to Tesla.

Weird I haven't thought about it before, but a battery has 50 times less energy per kg, and since a motor is 3-4 times more efficient than an engine, it's almost bearable, as the weight of all the components needed in gasoline cars can be replaced by batteries.

They've needed to make their cars extremely aerodynamic and do all sorts of clever engineering to shave weight, but regenerative breaking is probably one of the single biggest contributors to extending the range.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 05 Nov 2021 19:03:57 No.13822963 Report

Quoted By:

>>13821318
This is added weight and friction. I think the issue is energy that’s supposed to move the vehicle forward is going to the battery…so there’s no advantage. Slower acceleration AND worse coasting. A lot of energy is saved by coasting your car. Just think of the Simpsons where Bart turns on his bike lamp and he can barely peddle.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 06 Nov 2021 00:15:10 No.13823845 Report

Quoted By: >>13823862

>>13822474
>the weight of all the components needed in gasoline cars can be replaced by batteries.
I was looking this up and found that battery powered cars or battery vehicles (BV) like the Chevrolet Bolt and Nissan Leaf which are classified as subcompact and compact cars weigh 3,600 lbs. Compare that to a Hyundai Sonata which only weighs 3,100 lbs. Then you have the Ford Mustang Mach-E which is classified as a compact CUBV but weighs a hefty 4,200 lbs. Compare than to Ford's non-BV compact CUV the Ford Escape and base model weighs only 3,200 lbs. Big difference. Engines are heavy but I think people overestimate how heavy they are and just see them as these huge hulking blocks of solid metal. But they have a lot of empty space inside for flowing fluids, both liquid and gas, and parts like the pistons and crankshaft that have to be bathed in oil. Then when people think of batteries they think of small AA batteries and the battery in their smartphone which are very light. But they don't realize how many of those bad boys you have to slap together to get a massive car with its passengers rolling. And as you add all these batteries, the weight of the car also increases so then you need to add more batteries for those batteries and so on. Think why heavy aircraft and rockets don't use batteries. It's the same problem except now the vehicle is demanding even more energy. You mentioned how batteries have 50 times less energy but that's still a lot and actually a good thing because more energy density would make them very unstable and dangerous.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 06 Nov 2021 00:22:42 No.13823862 Report

Quoted By: >>13827428

>>13823845
>Think why heavy aircraft and rockets don't use batteries.
hmmm
>because more energy density would make them very unstable and dangerous.
or maybe its because there isn't a way to spin an electric motor/fan fast enough in atmosphere to produce the same thrust as a chemical reaction

Electric cars can be light but they take specific design. A 2021 model S might weigh 1000lbs more than my 2000 infiniti, but with twice the power and a better range.

You're only considering the worst electric cars because they look bad compared to ICEs, unlike the industry standard Tesla.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 06 Nov 2021 00:24:34 No.13823867 Report

Quoted By:

>>13821751
damn, he's batting pretty well.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 06 Nov 2021 01:00:55 No.13823942 Report

Quoted By:

>>13821318
this is being used and has been for years

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 06 Nov 2021 16:40:01 No.13825746 Report

Quoted By: >>13827459

>>13822266
coast, yes but it immediately starts to slow.

energy not being extracted...god you are fucking dumb.
The energy is being used to coast. You tap into that energy you decrease the coasting distance/time meaning you have to ADD more energy sooner.
Net fucking loss.

Anonymous

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Anonymous Sat 06 Nov 2021 17:05:48 No.13825859 Report

Quoted By:

>>13821384
>Not necesarily

Anonymous

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Anonymous Sun 07 Nov 2021 03:12:35 No.13827428 Report

Quoted By:

>>13823862
>or maybe its because there...blah blah blah
Or maybe it's both :O
>A 2021 model S might weigh 1000lbs more than my 2000 infiniti, but with twice the power and a better range.
>A car from over 20 years ago isn't as expensive and unreliable as my glorified golf cart status symbol (of being a clown)
Whoa
>You're only considering the worst electric cars because they look bad compared to ICEs, unlike the industry standard Tesla.
Keksimus maxsimus this isn't a YLYL thread dumbo but in case this isn't satire I made sure to look at the BVs that aren't overpriced, ranked dead last in reliability and quality, deathtraps on whompy wheels that light up like the 4th of July whenever the battery-laden undercarriage strikes a small bump driven by tools. So no I wanted to be fair and did not want to use the industry laughingstock.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 07 Nov 2021 03:32:35 No.13827459 Report

Quoted By:

>>13821434
>>13825746

This guy gets it.

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