/sci/ - Science & Math » Thread #13799420

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Anonymous Fri 29 Oct 00:49:30 2021 No.13799420 View Reply Original Report

Quoted By: >>13800021 >>13800097 >>13800168 >>13800367 >>13800784 >>13801666 >>13802083

Are independent events truly exist or its all just schizo math rambling?

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 29 Oct 2021 00:53:44 No.13799432 Report

Quoted By: >>13799465 >>13799576 >>13799623 >>13799634 >>13800005 >>13800183 >>13800367 >>13801680

The entire universe is completely deterministic, therefore, there is no such thing as an independent event.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 29 Oct 2021 01:05:58 No.13799465 Report

Quoted By:

>>13799432
fpbp

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 29 Oct 2021 01:56:23 No.13799576 Report

Quoted By:

>>13799432
Depends on your interpretation of quantum mechanics, the Copenhagen interpretation suggests the universe is non-deterministic, some of the others point to it being deterministic.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 29 Oct 2021 02:06:48 No.13799597 Report

Quoted By: >>13799616

Determinism is a fact, but it's a useless fact. Knowing that one dice roll is ultimately affected by the previous one doesn't give you any help in predicting it.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 29 Oct 2021 02:17:05 No.13799616 Report

Quoted By: >>13799901

>>13799597
Doesn't matter if from your weak human-centric POV it isn't predictable. In the grand scheme, it is.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 29 Oct 2021 02:20:16 No.13799623 Report

Quoted By: >>13799631

>>13799432
The universe is chaotic =/= The universe is deterministic
It's literally impossible to have both be true. It's evident that the universe leans 99.99999% towards chaos and life in itself is almost a statistical improbability.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 29 Oct 2021 02:25:18 No.13799631 Report

Quoted By: >>13799689

>>13799623
Chaos IS deterministic.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 29 Oct 2021 02:26:23 No.13799634 Report

Quoted By: >>13799644

>>13799432
Do schizos actually believe this?

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 29 Oct 2021 02:31:04 No.13799644 Report

Quoted By: >>13799659

>>13799634
If by 'schizos' you mean a non-trivially large percentage of physicists.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 29 Oct 2021 02:38:08 No.13799659 Report

Quoted By: >>13799874

>>13799644
Name a physicist who argues that "completely deterministic" applies to human-scale events, not just cosmic ones. (And who takes it seriously, not just as a thought exercise or as an attention-whoring on social media.)

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 29 Oct 2021 03:01:20 No.13799689 Report

Quoted By: >>13800159

>>13799631
how so?

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 29 Oct 2021 05:09:52 No.13799874 Report

Quoted By: >>13800005 >>13800072

>>13799659
implying that scale matters whatsoever. the fabric that makes up your being is deterministic, and the chain of interactions you are a part of is deterministic as well.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 29 Oct 2021 05:17:48 No.13799887 Report

Quoted By: >>13800611

>people actually argue that there are breaks in cause and effect, that some things just happen for no reason or some things within the universe can occur with out affecting the universe
>they invent a bunch of fancy ideas to obfuscate it
why even bother with these people?

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 29 Oct 2021 05:28:56 No.13799901 Report

Quoted By:

>>13799616
> In the grand scheme, it is.
By who? God?

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 29 Oct 2021 06:57:04 No.13800005 Report

Quoted By: >>13802062 >>13802091

>>13799432
>>13799874
>The entire universe is completely deterministic
t. never heard of quantum physics

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 29 Oct 2021 07:07:04 No.13800021 Report

Quoted By:

>>13799420
Well, just roll a die 1000 times and plot the results

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 29 Oct 2021 07:36:27 No.13800072 Report

Quoted By: >>13800609

>>13799874
Yeah, I figured you couldn't name anyone. You probably just misread a pop-sci article and got excited. "Physics" doesn't work that way.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 29 Oct 2021 07:57:03 No.13800097 Report

Quoted By:

>>13799420
you imply everything that is caused was by an effect instead of being the impetus
is there always recursion with cause or can something like the big bang be effect without cause

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 29 Oct 2021 08:34:48 No.13800159 Report

Quoted By: >>13801421

>>13799689
jfc just read a book

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 29 Oct 2021 08:43:20 No.13800168 Report

Quoted By:

>>13799420
There are no independent events or variables. Everything in the universe is a intricate sets of causes and conditions.

Anonymous

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Anonymous Fri 29 Oct 2021 08:54:32 No.13800183 Report

Quoted By: >>13800254 >>13801677

>>13799432
>The entire universe is completely deterministic

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 29 Oct 2021 09:20:43 No.13800216 Report

Quoted By: >>13800254 >>13800295 >>13800311

Whew lads. If determinism is true, every single one of our responses to it are preordained, like an elaborate cosmic practical joke of marionettes arguing about their strings. Good thing it’s not true and that volition is literally an emergent property of intelligence and that only a few people at any one time have ever had it for measurably long periods of existence
>t. Volition-haver

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 29 Oct 2021 09:45:10 No.13800254 Report

Quoted By: >>13800369

>>13800183
>>13800216
libcuck cope

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 29 Oct 2021 10:14:10 No.13800295 Report

Quoted By: >>13800369

>>13800216
Even if the universe is not deterministic, your pathetic life is still meaningless.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 29 Oct 2021 10:21:43 No.13800311 Report

Quoted By: >>13800369

>>13800216
>volition is literally an emergent property of intelligence
human sciences isn't science

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 29 Oct 2021 10:57:46 No.13800367 Report

Quoted By: >>13800395

>>13799420
>>13799432

The entire Universe is completely deterministic, therefore all events are independent.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 29 Oct 2021 11:01:22 No.13800369 Report

Quoted By: >>13800934

>>13800254
>>13800295
>>13800311
You lads have anything meaningful to contribute? Oh sorry, forgot you can’t decide what to post

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 29 Oct 2021 11:16:11 No.13800395 Report

Quoted By:

>>13800367
bet that sounded clever in your head

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 29 Oct 2021 13:23:02 No.13800609 Report

Quoted By: >>13800891

>>13800072
Read the book Continuous or Discrete by Amit Hagar you fucking plebian retard.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 29 Oct 2021 13:25:22 No.13800611 Report

Quoted By:

>>13799887
So you're saying certain things are caused by a break in cause and effect?

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 29 Oct 2021 14:51:32 No.13800784 Report

Quoted By:

>>13799420
They exist enough that assuming they exist helps to make probability be of some use to human beings. Do they exist in an objectively cosmic sense? Probably not as much as we think they do, but it doesn't matter as far as we're concerned. You're missing the forest for the trees.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 29 Oct 2021 15:49:30 No.13800891 Report

Quoted By:

>>13800609
Wow, your brain really cracked there, didn't it. We were talking about determinism, not atomism.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 29 Oct 2021 16:13:49 No.13800934 Report

Quoted By:

>>13800369
and you only decided to post your retarded garbage rambling because your subconcious thought it would be funny to say the obvious things, wow, such free will.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 29 Oct 2021 17:11:45 No.13801098 Report

Quoted By: >>13801183 >>13801645

>take a quantum random number generator
>decide that if it outputs a 1 ill go get a sushi dinner, if it outputs a 0 I'll go get a hamburger dinner
>roll the QRNG. It outputs one of the outputs truly randomly, I go to the corresponding location, and the total macrostate of the universe is in a completely different and has evolved into that state inherently non-deterministically
Determinism eternally BTFO

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 29 Oct 2021 17:34:57 No.13801183 Report

Quoted By: >>13801192

>>13801098
How certain are we that the output of a QRNG is truly random or is it possible we just do not fully understand/observe it? I'm a pseud so please forgive me

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 29 Oct 2021 17:41:43 No.13801192 Report

Quoted By:

>>13801183
>or is it possible we just do not fully understand/observe it?
it absolutely is possible though technically they only provide you with a random number when you ask for it. so a computer big enough to simulate the entire universe will still end up producing the same results over and over, theoretically speaking

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 29 Oct 2021 17:53:20 No.13801212 Report

Quoted By:

>no it wasn't me who punched you in face it was an omnipotent force of nature
schizos truly believe this

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 29 Oct 2021 19:15:43 No.13801421 Report

Quoted By:

>>13800159
So I guess that means you don't know the answer.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 29 Oct 2021 20:37:43 No.13801645 Report

Quoted By: >>13802211

>>13801098
Did you choose what 0 and 1 meant? How is that random?

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 29 Oct 2021 20:40:08 No.13801659 Report

Quoted By:

>he thinks it is possible for abstract concepts to "exist"
no dude
that's just a word
it's grammar
it has usage

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 29 Oct 2021 20:40:56 No.13801666 Report

Quoted By: >>13801674

>>13799420
In quantum mechanics, physicists used to think that quantum phenomena is completely random. Until bell came and proved, using bell's theorem, that if you want the universe to be deterministic you must accept the fact that entangled particles can transmit information toward each other faster than light

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 29 Oct 2021 20:42:25 No.13801674 Report

Quoted By: >>13801688

>>13801666
*physicists used to think that quantum phenomena is completely deterministic

Anonymous

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Anonymous Fri 29 Oct 2021 20:42:48 No.13801677 Report

Quoted By:

>>13800183
>the entire determination is completely universal

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 29 Oct 2021 20:43:18 No.13801680 Report

Quoted By: >>13802097

>>13799432
The orthodox (Copenhagen) stance in quantum physics is that the universe is non-determistic/random at small scales, so is impossible to the universe to be completely deterministic.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 29 Oct 2021 20:44:46 No.13801688 Report

Quoted By:

>>13801674
here, you dropped this. (yes, just being an asshole for no reason)
>*are

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 29 Oct 2021 20:57:37 No.13801715 Report

Quoted By:

its based and realitypilled

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 29 Oct 2021 23:19:43 No.13802062 Report

Quoted By:

>>13800005
explain to me how quantum physics rules out determinism, not a genuine question

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 29 Oct 2021 23:30:53 No.13802083 Report

Quoted By:

>>13799420
They do exist. Consider the following.

Note $L$ the event “OP gets laid” and $T$ the event “OP tries to get laid.” We have $L\;=\;\varnothing$ and thus $\mathbf P\left(L\right)\;=\;0$ . We also have $\mathbf P\left(L\,\cap\,T\right)\;=\;\mathbf P\left(\varnothing\right)\;=\;0$ . By transitivity, $\mathbf P\left(L\,\cap\,T\right)\;=\;\mathbf P\left(L\right)\,\mathbf P\left(T\right)$ . Therefore, $L$ and $T$ are independent, Q.E.D.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 29 Oct 2021 23:33:51 No.13802091 Report

Quoted By:

>>13800005
>t. never heard of quantum physics
only mathematically elegant interpretation of quantum mechanics has the universal wavefunction encode for every possibility
>determinism saved again

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 29 Oct 2021 23:35:33 No.13802097 Report

Quoted By: >>13802208 >>13802218

>>13801680
seethenhagen interpretation doesnt even define a mechanism for wfc so theres no reason to believe it
many worlds > junk science

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 30 Oct 2021 00:26:27 No.13802208 Report

Quoted By:

>>13802097
Not him but please tell me more about how the cosmic voice in your head makes you do things you really didn't mean to do.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 30 Oct 2021 00:27:45 No.13802211 Report

Quoted By:

>>13801645
Because QRNG are truly random, so it doesn't matter which one is 0 or 1. Whichever outcome happens is not deterministic.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 30 Oct 2021 00:29:06 No.13802218 Report

Quoted By:

>>13802097
Universal wavefunction is literally retarded

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