/sci/ - Science & Math » Thread #13731646

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Anonymous Sat 09 Oct 07:28:19 2021 No.13731646 View Reply Original Report

Quoted By: >>13731660 >>13733654 >>13734535 >>13734739 >>13735083 >>13736410 >>13737391

Is the Magnetic Field caused by a current carrying wire the result of length contraction of particles in that wire? Here is a pop-sci video which claims this.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1TKSfAkWWN0&t=150s

Ive tried to find online if this is true and Im finding a never ending series of contradictory results

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 09 Oct 2021 07:37:35 No.13731660 Report

Quoted By: >>13731663 >>13732132

>>13731646
Yes, the magnetic field is the electric field in a different reference frame.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 09 Oct 2021 07:39:43 No.13731663 Report

Quoted By: >>13731685 >>13736410

>>13731660
but that means its due to the difference in distance between the particles in the wire because of relativistic effects? what then causes the circular motion?

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 09 Oct 2021 07:51:07 No.13731685 Report

Quoted By:

>>13731663
B field is not motion. it's force is encoded in the magnetic term of the electromagnetic (lorentz) force law, which also takes into account the velocity of the charge

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 09 Oct 2021 08:23:34 No.13731748 Report

Quoted By: >>13732001

this whole issue is seriously shaking my doubt in how many people who claim to understand physics actually do

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 09 Oct 2021 10:57:07 No.13732001 Report

Quoted By: >>13733454

>>13731748

Shaking your doubt? Does that mean you're gaining confidence? If I shake a building, it risks collapsing... Who claims to understand physics? Do you?

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 09 Oct 2021 12:23:46 No.13732132 Report

Quoted By: >>13734756

>>13731660
I wrote that on my EM finals and they gave me an F

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 09 Oct 2021 20:08:43 No.13733454 Report

Quoted By:

>>13732001
yeah i was drunk when i made that post. anyway, bump.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 09 Oct 2021 21:02:50 No.13733654 Report

Quoted By:

>>13731646
Apparently all magnetism is warp physics. spacetime is imploded in the wire, so the surrounding space warps to fill the gap to mediate pressure

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 10 Oct 2021 00:59:32 No.13734530 Report

Quoted By: >>13734590 >>13735088

OP here. the answer that i've found is, no, the magnetic field around a charge carrying wire is not caused by the contraction of length of the particles in that wire. this is a pop-sci myth that for some reason a lot of people have come to accept.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 10 Oct 2021 01:02:26 No.13734535 Report

Quoted By:

>>13731646
If you have to use (((relativistic theory))) to explain magnets, you've already failed

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 10 Oct 2021 01:25:34 No.13734590 Report

Quoted By:

>>13734530
what source swayed you?

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 10 Oct 2021 02:07:49 No.13734739 Report

Quoted By:

>>13731646
What the fuck causes it faggots?

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 10 Oct 2021 02:16:32 No.13734756 Report

Quoted By:

>>13732132
Sorry to say, but you were filtered by your ugly face.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 10 Oct 2021 04:35:30 No.13735083 Report

Quoted By:

>>13731646
it is one way of looking at it, sure. it is just an interpretation though, it isnt any more true than other explanations

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 10 Oct 2021 04:36:47 No.13735088 Report

Quoted By: >>13735120

>>13734530
if Veritasium's video was false, youd have seen 100 physicists come out of the woodworks to debunk it. Why hasnt it happened? Cuz the video is correct

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 10 Oct 2021 04:53:00 No.13735120 Report

Quoted By: >>13735122 >>13735131

>>13735088
oh really, is that why only a handful of mathmaticians ever came out and said anything about numberphiles 1+2+3+4.... debacle? veritasiums video doesn't even reference the corkscrew nature of the magnetic field.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 10 Oct 2021 04:54:36 No.13735122 Report

Quoted By:

>>13735120
>veritasiums video doesn't even reference the corkscrew nature of the magnetic field
what in the actual fuck did he mean by this

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 10 Oct 2021 04:58:56 No.13735131 Report

Quoted By: >>13735146

>>13735120
https://youtu.be/YuIIjLr6vUA

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 10 Oct 2021 05:04:27 No.13735146 Report

Quoted By:

>>13735131
yes theres one, where are the hundreds of others?

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 10 Oct 2021 05:09:25 No.13735156 Report

Quoted By: >>13736410

this claim that the magnetic field is caused by length contraction of particles was invented by Edward Purcell in his book Electricity and Magnetism. 99% of the times this claim is made they cite this book

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 10 Oct 2021 15:08:15 No.13736410 Report

Quoted By:

>>13731646
It is my understanding that if you pick any two of electricity, magnetism, or gr as "real" then the third can be derived as a kind of "fictitious force" effect.
Einstein derived gr from privileging maxwell's equations (electricity and magnetism) as "real".
Clearly somebody >>13735156 started with electricity and gr to derive magnetism.
I have yet to see somebody start with magnetism and gr to get electricity but it is probably possible.
>>13731663
>what then causes the circular motion?
for a charge moving parallel to the wire, you conventionally compute the force from B x v which just gives simple attraction/repulsion. The "circular" B field is just what is needed for the "fictitious force" arising from B x v to be in agreement with electricity and gr.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 10 Oct 2021 20:06:36 No.13737369 Report

Quoted By:

hey guys i just found a paper on the topic written by Germano D'Abramo who is a mathematical physicists who discovered minor planets

the summery of the paper: In the present paper, we show that Purcell’s
approach is problematic since it generates inconsistencies and paradoxes. We maintain
that Purcell’s derivation has only an illustrative and expository value and should not
be taken literally as describing something that really and physically happens in the
wire. Furthermore, we believe that the difficulties pointed out here should be explicitly
presented and discussed when introducing Purcell’s approach in physics courses at the
undergraduate and graduate levels.

https://arxiv.org/pdf/2108.07169.pdf

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 10 Oct 2021 20:10:51 No.13737391 Report

Quoted By: >>13738682 >>13738696

>>13731646
>length contraction
this has never even been proven, there is no empirical evidence for that, it's merely a trick physicists use to explain awaythe results of the michelson morley experiment and enable relativty

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 11 Oct 2021 05:31:56 No.13738682 Report

Quoted By:

>>13737391
>this has never even been proven
uhh

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 11 Oct 2021 05:38:54 No.13738696 Report

Quoted By: >>13738700

>>13737391
michelson-morely completely destroys ether nonsense, though

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 11 Oct 2021 05:40:54 No.13738700 Report

Quoted By: >>13738706

>>13738696
and I suppose you have the scientific data on hand to back that up for when you re-did the experiment yourelf?

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 11 Oct 2021 05:43:48 No.13738706 Report

Quoted By:

>>13738700
>for when you re-did the experiment yourelf?
impossible standards

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