/sci/ - Science & Math » Thread #13663652

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Dark Matter Doesn't Exist

muh dark matter Mon 20 Sep 20:29:51 2021 No.13663652 View Reply Original Report

Quoted By: >>13664208 >>13664258 >>13664478 >>13665165 >>13666485 >>13666521 >>13670662 >>13677331 >>13677414 >>13677596 >>13679216

>dark matter makes up 85% of the universe
>somehow go about morning commute without crashing car into invisible gravity blocks along 85% of the highway
>astronauts made it to the moon and back despite 85% dark matter obstacle course
>astrophysicists overwhelmingly too prideful to admit or consider that maybe Einstein and Newton's 300 year old universe math wasn't perfect

All dark matter has ever been is a free pass for famous lackluster mathematicians whose math is 85% wrong. Imagine pulling that shit anywhere else in scientific theory jfc.

https://www.nbcnews.com/science/space/maybe-dark-matter-doesn-t-exist-after-all-new-research-n1252995

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 20 Sep 2021 20:33:22 No.13663674 Report

Quoted By: >>13663690 >>13664004 >>13664131 >>13665303

Reguardless if whether or not dark matter exists, your rebuttal to it are the insane ramblings of someone whose got zero idea what they are arguing against.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 20 Sep 2021 20:37:22 No.13663690 Report

Quoted By:

>>13663674
He is rambling but gave me a good chuckle out of the idea that could crash your car into invisible gravity blobs
good one OP

Anonymous

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Anonymous Mon 20 Sep 2021 22:21:38 No.13664003 Report

Quoted By:

It absolutely baffles me that some physicists actually believe and argue for the current cosmological model. They are not looking for Vulcan but three different Vulcans. Seems insane and yet everyone kind of accepts it.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 20 Sep 2021 22:22:26 No.13664004 Report

Quoted By:

>>13663674
this

also dark matter is meant to signify the lack of theoretical mass of the universe, it may just be some random particles we have no idea of

Anonymous

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Anonymous Mon 20 Sep 2021 22:47:07 No.13664131 Report

Quoted By: >>13664467

>>13663674
I am most offended by the fact that he attributes dark matter to mathematicians

Anonymous

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Anonymous Mon 20 Sep 2021 23:02:45 No.13664208 Report

Quoted By: >>13666581 >>13669148

>>13663652
MOND is somebody noticing that galaxy rotations break down at a certain point and using that observation to predict them more accurately. Quantized Inertia is somebody figuring out why it breaks down at that point and fixing the calculations to predict even more things.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 20 Sep 2021 23:11:37 No.13664258 Report

Quoted By: >>13675231

>>13663652
>somehow go about morning commute without crashing car into invisible gravity blocks along 85% of the highway
It's called "dark matter" because it literally cannot interact with matter but somehow does with gravity. (theoretically)

Anonymous

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Anonymous Mon 20 Sep 2021 23:58:45 No.13664467 Report

Quoted By: >>13664475 >>13666224 >>13673298

>>13664131
But that's literally where it comes from.
>Newton and Einstein create mathematical models to describe reality
>astronomers look through telescopes and compare their observations to what the math predicts
>OOPSIE, something doesn't match up right! What should we do?
>Obviously the math is right, so clearly the observations are wrong and there is a lot of mass that simply cannot be seen

Dark matter is a BS fudge used to avoid the obvious conclusion: both Newton and Einstein were not quite right; their theories do NOT accurately describe reality. The fact that GR and QM can't be reconciled should be another hint that there is something wrong with GR. QM has been tested and verified to an absurd degree, while GR needs fudges like "dark matter" to predict anything even remotely resembling the night sky as we plainly see it. Cosmology is a clusterfuck because they can't bring themselves to admit that Einstein wasn't an oracle of truth.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 21 Sep 2021 00:01:30 No.13664475 Report

Quoted By: >>13664496

>>13664467
Mathematicians dont create mathematical models to describe reality.
They create mathematics.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 21 Sep 2021 00:02:41 No.13664478 Report

Quoted By:

>>13663652
Is this "dark matter" in the room with you right now?

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 21 Sep 2021 00:10:47 No.13664496 Report

Quoted By: >>13664505 >>13675255

>>13664475
>Mathematicians create mathematics.
No, they discover it.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 21 Sep 2021 00:14:20 No.13664505 Report

Quoted By:

>>13664496
I am not going to argue with you on that as I mostly agree, I was just using his phrasing of things .

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 21 Sep 2021 02:46:23 No.13664899 Report

Quoted By: >>13666261

DM, like Big Bang, is just a theory. It was invented because the equations didn’t work and they needed to fill in the holes.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 21 Sep 2021 04:11:37 No.13665165 Report

Quoted By:

>>13663652
>Einstein and Newton's 300 year old universe math wasn't perfect
Newton's math was perfect. Einstein's... not so much.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 21 Sep 2021 05:23:30 No.13665303 Report

Quoted By:

>>13663674
seething kike

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 21 Sep 2021 05:31:09 No.13665322 Report

Quoted By:

You're underestimating the sheer scale of this shithole we're in.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 21 Sep 2021 05:34:32 No.13665328 Report

Quoted By:

Physics is a model using math. Just as a model of car is not like the real car, and never can be exactly, because it isn't the real thing. It's a model. The model of physics will never match exactly the real world observation, and never can.

Anonymous

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Anonymous Tue 21 Sep 2021 14:33:55 No.13666224 Report

Quoted By: >>13666262

>>13664467
>Cosmology is a clusterfuck because they can't bring themselves to admit that Einstein wasn't an oracle of truth.
All spot on and well said. It's honestly scary, we're reverting back to when science wasn't allowed "because that's explained in the Bible/Quran", now we find the sciences hampered by the modern religious idolization of dead novice mathematicians.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 21 Sep 2021 14:44:02 No.13666261 Report

Quoted By:

>>13664899
>DM, like Big Bang, is just a theory. It was invented because the equations didn’t work and they needed to fill in the holes.
It's different from most theories in that instead of a theory used for understanding of the universe it's a theory used to justify someone's shitty math. It is disenfranchising to theories in general for Dark Matter to be considered of the same standing, by any reach.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 21 Sep 2021 14:44:02 No.13666262 Report

Quoted By: >>13666424

>>13666224
the problem is most of their math works out and accurately predicts the way things behave, except very specifically in the case of gravity at enormous, galactic scales. It points to us missing something specific, rather than all of relativity being wrong.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 21 Sep 2021 15:35:57 No.13666424 Report

Quoted By: >>13666473

>>13666262
GR predicts some things, but so do theories that are completely incompatible with it. It could very easily be a 'local maximum' and the solution isn't to continue developing it, but to back up and go down a completely different route like deriving gravity from quantum mechanics

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 21 Sep 2021 15:43:52 No.13666460 Report

Quoted By:

>modified newtonian dynamics
Every single person that mentions this without taking the piss is not worth listening to on physics subjects.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 21 Sep 2021 15:46:22 No.13666473 Report

Quoted By: >>13666581

>>13666424
that's exactly what everyone and their grandma has been trying to do since 1940, unsuccessfully

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 21 Sep 2021 15:49:59 No.13666485 Report

Quoted By:

>>13663652
Dark matter exists. But its not actually matter, its magical mana. The myths of gods and wizzards and all kinds of other supernatural nonsense, are not actually nonsense. They were real, but we are currently passing through a region of space devoid of mana, so those things don't happen anymore.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 21 Sep 2021 15:51:45 No.13666497 Report

Quoted By:

what a terrible thread

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 21 Sep 2021 15:55:44 No.13666521 Report

Quoted By: >>13668880

>>13663652
So, /sci/ shizos were right again?

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 21 Sep 2021 16:08:35 No.13666581 Report

Quoted By: >>13679292

>>13666473
There's a new theory >>13664208 based on unruh radiation that shows more promise than usual by predicting all sorts of things and also having engineering implications that allow for direct testing. I want to see how the newest experiments pan out. In any case, it has as much predictive validity as any other theory

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 22 Sep 2021 04:00:19 No.13668880 Report

Quoted By:

>>13666521
>/sci/zos were wrong again
FTFY

Anonymous

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Anonymous Wed 22 Sep 2021 05:42:38 No.13669148 Report

Quoted By:

>>13664208
oh yeah

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 22 Sep 2021 16:38:44 No.13670662 Report

Quoted By: >>13679322

>>13663652
MOND retards are just as stupid as Dark Matter retards. For some reason society has elevated physicists as the smartest people who ever lived and the physicists egos are now inflated - they will never admit they have no fucking clue why gravity is a thing.

At least Newton was willing to admit that gravity was just a motion, that f=ma and g=m_1m_2g/r^2 happened to describe that motion, and that he had no clue what actually caused the force.

I could respect people who said they just don't know what's going on, but to lie and pretend like some kind of dark shit is there that no one can actually see or feel or detect but they promise it's there because they really really believe it's true and you have to have faith..

Retards.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 23 Sep 2021 09:11:09 No.13673298 Report

Quoted By:

>>13664467
>Cosmology is a clusterfuck bcoz I don't unnerstan'it
FTFY

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 23 Sep 2021 21:17:14 No.13675231 Report

Quoted By: >>13675285

>>13664258
Why then doesn't it aggregate enough to create black holes everywhere?

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 23 Sep 2021 21:21:55 No.13675255 Report

Quoted By: >>13675277 >>13675282

>>13664496
They "discover" it in the same way a chess play "discovers" a good move in chess.
Ultimately the foundation is invented. The undefined notions are invented, the axioms are invented and the rules of inference are invented.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 23 Sep 2021 21:29:21 No.13675277 Report

Quoted By: >>13675284

>>13675255
>[Mathematicians] discover $in the same way a chess player discovers a good move in chess.</span><br />FTFY (removed 'scare quotes', because the statement without them is simply the plain truth.)$

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 23 Sep 2021 21:31:15 No.13675282 Report

Quoted By: >>13675289

>>13675255
>Ultimately the foundation is invented
wrong, it is intuited. If it was invented we would know everything about the universe of sets when we defined it. Once you see the set theory axioms you can confirm they are true just by seeing that they strongly reflect the process of thinking with ideas.

Another reason why it is intuited is the fact that literally everyone agrees on the axioms. If it was invented there would be more people disagreeing about what axioms to use.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 23 Sep 2021 21:32:09 No.13675284 Report

Quoted By: >>13675298

>>13675277
Neither are true. The rules of chess are invented and the rules of math are invented. You ignored the second line, which is the core of the argument falsifying the idea that mathematics is platonically real.
Mathematics is a construction, not a discovery, just the the rules of a board game are a construction.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 23 Sep 2021 21:32:55 No.13675285 Report

Quoted By: >>13677322

>>13675231
it works out that if it doesn't interact with anything electromagnetically (including itself) then it won't slow down enough to aggregate like normal matter and mostly stays highly dispersed in orbits around gravity wells

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 23 Sep 2021 21:34:15 No.13675289 Report

Quoted By: >>13675294

>>13675282
>If it was invented we would know everything about the universe of sets when we defined it.
"If the rules of chess were invented we would know every possible set of movements before we played"

We don't all agree on the axioms. A lot of people reject choice and reject law of excluded middle, and their math is fine.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 23 Sep 2021 21:38:16 No.13675294 Report

Quoted By: >>13675328

>>13675289
>"If the rules of chess were invented we would know every possible set of movements before we played"
the actual game is invented, the game is already an idea whether its created in the physical world or not.

>We don't all agree on the axioms. A lot of people reject choice and reject law of excluded middle, and their math is fine.
that hardly an objection, the truth is the vast majority of people agree on the structure of mathematical ideas. More so then what physical objects exist, religion, science, paranormal, philosophy etc.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 23 Sep 2021 21:39:25 No.13675298 Report

Quoted By: >>13675321 >>13675328

>>13675284
>The rules of chess are invented
And good chess plays are discovered, not invented, within those rules.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 23 Sep 2021 21:49:25 No.13675321 Report

Quoted By:

>>13675298
>discovered, not invented
All this shit is just semantic discussion. With no people doing the plays you wouldn't know they exist. When it is invented (you design the play), you discover it (you find it).
You might argue: "well, since we have finite pieces and finite movements, we can establish all possible plays to be found". But with the universe what usually happens is the equivalent of somebody playing chess and kicking the board off the table.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 23 Sep 2021 21:51:26 No.13675328 Report

Quoted By: >>13676116

>>13675294
How about this for an example:
An incidence geometry with an axiom of parallel lines that states there exist a unique line parallel to some other line, is different from an incidence geometry that states there exists at least 2 different lines parallel to the first. Everything else about the incidence geometry is the same. They both have the same undefined notions and the same 4 axioms of incidence.

Which one is "actually real"? Are they both real? If that's so, how, when they are mutually exclusive? If math is platonically real and consistent (albeit incomplete), how can there be two different geometries that are both themselves consistent, just not with each other? Which is real? Which one has the right to be considered "discovered"? They can't both be discovered, as they're mutually exclusive, unless you're saying that law of non-contradiction doesn't hold, and I struggle to see how you can take that stance while arguing math is discovered.

>>13675298
I get the allure of mathematics being "real" but I just don't think it's true.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 24 Sep 2021 02:24:51 No.13676116 Report

Quoted By:

>>13675328
to answer you question quickly, they are both as real as ideas. unironically read plato

Its not an allure that drives one to be a realist, it comes naturally once you understand the role of ideas and the relationship between the mind and the world. What fool would deny that the idea of cars exist when cars exist as physical objects?

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 24 Sep 2021 11:51:41 No.13677322 Report

Quoted By:

>>13675285
If it interacts by gravity at least it stands to reason it also emit gravitational waves, and increasingly so as you increase mass and proximity. By that mechanism it should slow down and voila, a dark matter black hole.
Also dark matter halos around galaxies have supposedly been observed indirectly, in addition to sufficient aggregation to upset the simple model for galactic rotation.
What am I missing?

Anonymous

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Anonymous Fri 24 Sep 2021 11:58:16 No.13677331 Report

Quoted By:

>>13663652
>astronauts made it to the moon and back
never happened

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 24 Sep 2021 12:50:19 No.13677414 Report

Quoted By: >>13677579 >>13678420

>>13663652
Ok but what about dark energy

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 24 Sep 2021 14:19:20 No.13677579 Report

Quoted By:

>>13677414
just MOND, bro

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 24 Sep 2021 14:26:34 No.13677596 Report

Quoted By:

>>13663652
The dark parts of the universe are obviously the unobservable properties of space. You can't tell me space can just allow for all these physics phenomena without having elementary components to cause them.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 24 Sep 2021 18:24:05 No.13678420 Report

Quoted By:

>>13677414
Also eliminated by Quantized Inertia

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 24 Sep 2021 21:25:56 No.13679216 Report

Quoted By:

>>13663652
I was old years today realize when we just kept making up new gears and cogs and throwing them into the machine and now the best we have is two completely irreconcilable 'theories.' And they're both wrong, because you can continually edit practically any theory and eventually arrive at a seemingly working model.
What if the truth is just the buffer between the margin of error and oblivion?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=esATRstWodc

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 24 Sep 2021 21:44:59 No.13679292 Report

Quoted By:

>>13666581
Doesn't the theory also predict that everything eventually accelerates exponentially as the universal horizon shrinks?

Anonymous

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Anonymous Fri 24 Sep 2021 21:53:05 No.13679322 Report

Quoted By: >>13681454

>>13670662
This. I fucking hate "science". It's just like with CERN. Why the fuck are we wasting so much goddamn money on tiny little particles of flying shit crashing into each other in a giant toilet bowl? The standard model keeps getting more and more convoluted, to the point where they build a religion out of a "god particle" (holy fucking kike ash, these schizos can't keep getting away with this!).

This is the most retarded time in human history, we really are sitting on the shoulders of giants!

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 25 Sep 2021 13:02:49 No.13681454 Report

Quoted By:

>>13679322
>The standard model keeps getting more and more convoluted
That is the point. We are practically at the same point as when ultraviolet catastrophe was a topic.

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