/sci/ - Science & Math » Thread #13650674

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Anonymous Fri 17 Sep 02:36:53 2021 No.13650674 View Reply Original Report

Quoted By: >>13650699 >>13650909 >>13651647 >>13653281 >>13653393

>having good time in lab
>doing work and talking to cute lab tech girl
>laptop makes bing sound. Time for daily the project meeting
>have to leave lab and sit in a call for 1 hour while people talk some boring shit I dont care about
Scientifically speaking how do we remove meetings? I want to be left alone in the lab.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 17 Sep 2021 02:45:44 No.13650699 Report

Quoted By: >>13651586 >>13651613 >>13652878

>>13650674
communist revolution. managers are the ones calling meetings. they do so because they need to justify themselves and make sure you are making the owner a profit. if you owned the equipment you could use it at will without being accountable to anyone. seize the lab equipment, bro.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 17 Sep 2021 04:15:01 No.13650909 Report

Quoted By:

>>13650674
>how do we remove meetings
no sitting
really cuts down the bs when everyone has to stand & no leaning allowed

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 17 Sep 2021 09:45:20 No.13651586 Report

Quoted By: >>13652685

>>13650699
>communism would eliminate middle management/useless beaucrats
Read a fucking book

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 17 Sep 2021 09:58:25 No.13651613 Report

Quoted By: >>13652689 >>13653269

>>13650699
That's not how communism works.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 17 Sep 2021 10:14:59 No.13651647 Report

Quoted By:

>>13650674
Have face to face meetings only. People can have great conversations. Groups cannot, the group meeting is a hoax.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 17 Sep 2021 16:52:36 No.13652685 Report

Quoted By: >>13652726 >>13653246

>>13651586
>Read a fucking book
I did. I read Marx.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 17 Sep 2021 16:53:37 No.13652689 Report

Quoted By: >>13652719 >>13652736 >>13652909

>>13651613
>That's not how communism works.
Read Marx. In Marxs utopia, all the capital has been seized, so there are no useless owners or PI who just sit around and soak up profit/credit. It's all for the worker.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 17 Sep 2021 17:03:14 No.13652719 Report

Quoted By: >>13652753

>>13652689
Read Rowling. By saying the correct incantation, you can use a stick to levitate heavy objects.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 17 Sep 2021 17:05:09 No.13652726 Report

Quoted By:

>>13652685
read Wild Swans by Jung Chang

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 17 Sep 2021 17:07:31 No.13652736 Report

Quoted By: >>13652750

>>13652689
Workers dont have managers and meetings? Managers are workers too, they are not the owners.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 17 Sep 2021 17:12:59 No.13652750 Report

Quoted By: >>13652769

>>13652736
>Workers dont have managers and meetings? Managers are workers too, they are not the owners.

No. Workers don't have managers. Marx has a theory that value is only produced by physical labor. Managers don't perform physical labor, so they don't create value. If the workers seized the means of production and used them to make profits for themselves, what use would a manager be? Managers only exist today to crack the whip on you to make sure you are making enough profit for the Owner.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 17 Sep 2021 17:13:45 No.13652753 Report

Quoted By: >>13652756

>>13652719
ebin destroy'd that marx fantasy baby

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 17 Sep 2021 17:14:54 No.13652756 Report

Quoted By:

>>13652753
>ebin destroy'd that marx fantasy baby
I don't feel destroyed. It's obvious thhat he's arguing disingenuously. Thats a sign he lost he argument.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 17 Sep 2021 17:19:16 No.13652769 Report

Quoted By: >>13652785

>>13652750
What about the foreman at a construction crew laying asphalt on a road? Hes not a worker?

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 17 Sep 2021 17:24:49 No.13652785 Report

Quoted By: >>13652803

>>13652769
>What about the foreman at a construction crew laying asphalt on a road? Hes not a worker?
It's not my theory, bro. You can read Marx for more info. I've never worked on a construction site. I don't know anything about that, but Marx was very clear, people who exist just to represent or collect credit or profit are not creating value and therefore are exploiting those who do labor.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 17 Sep 2021 17:31:28 No.13652803 Report

Quoted By: >>13652868

>>13652785
But managers dont just stand around. They often do physical labor too and also working at an office is work too. About one third of total workers work in offices, think of a secretary or an accountant or a designer. I think just the act of getting up early to go to work is a form of physical labor.
I dont believe marx ever wrote that intellectual labor is not real labor, he might have written about skilled labor as a special type of labor and also that no labor is purely intellectual and that no physical labor is purely physical. A 15 IQ drooling retard cannot work at a construction site or clean toilets. Most importantly Marx never said intellectual labor is not labor.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 17 Sep 2021 17:51:03 No.13652868 Report

Quoted By: >>13653418

>>13652803
>I think just the act of getting up early to go to work is a form of physical labor.
I woke up at 7am to go to a farm and yell at the illegal immigrants for not picking produce fast enough. I'm performing a valuable service. Without me the Owner of the farm wouldn't have as much profit.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 17 Sep 2021 17:53:51 No.13652878 Report

Quoted By: >>13652916

>>13650699
>t. "I never did any project management" lab rat

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 17 Sep 2021 18:00:13 No.13652909 Report

Quoted By: >>13652920

>>13652689
The utopia never did, doesn't and will never exist.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 17 Sep 2021 18:01:34 No.13652916 Report

Quoted By: >>13653785

>>13652878
>>t. "I never did any project management" lab rat
thanks for your opinion bourgeoise scum. Don't you have some credit somewhere to be collecting?

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 17 Sep 2021 18:02:35 No.13652920 Report

Quoted By: >>13652932

>>13652909
>The utopia never did, doesn't and will never exist.
china seems to be doing fine.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 17 Sep 2021 18:04:56 No.13652932 Report

Quoted By: >>13652939

>>13652920
If you think China is, at it's current state, any sort of utopia, you are extremely stupid, naive or you put ideology over anything else.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 17 Sep 2021 18:07:37 No.13652939 Report

Quoted By: >>13652957 >>13653261

>>13652932
>If you think China is, at it's current state, any sort of utopia, you are extremely stupid, naive or you put ideology over anything else.

name a more successful country.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 17 Sep 2021 18:11:10 No.13652957 Report

Quoted By: >>13653389

>>13652939
In regards to what? In quality of life, most european countries surpass calmly China, which is barely above a second world nation.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 17 Sep 2021 19:25:10 No.13653246 Report

Quoted By: >>13653392

>>13652685
I meant non-fiction

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 17 Sep 2021 19:29:34 No.13653261 Report

Quoted By:

>>13652939
Japan

Anonymous

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Anonymous Fri 17 Sep 2021 19:32:26 No.13653269 Report

Quoted By:

>>13651613
It actually IS how communism works. According to Marx there's nothing wrong with leisure and if you spend your life in leisure nobody will go fucking nuts. Do enough work to take care of your household, there really isn't a need to do more. If you'd like to do research, cool, do research the world benefits from researchers. Or stay at home building computers or write books or visit family, you know .... live.

It's capitalists who had to justify giving everyone a 'job' in order to justify their existence. Gotta pay that rent slave. USSR and China are as much based on Marx as the United Kingdom is. So using them as examples of communism's failures is laughable and retarded.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 17 Sep 2021 19:41:31 No.13653281 Report

Quoted By: >>13653407

>>13650674
>Fill your outlook calendar with fake meetings to block off time slots
>If the meeting is an hour, always pretend you have a conflict halfway through
>Dial in and make yourself known, then drop off because something critical came up
>If you have to schedule a meeting make it 30 minutes and be done in 15
>If anything comes up that would extend the meeting for even a second YOU WILL FOLLOW UP AFTER THE MEETING IS OVER. Do not hold the group hostage for your bullshit
>never meet before 9am or after 4pm especially on Monday or Friday
>if you meet over lunch you provide lunch or don't schedule a meeting
Be the change you want to see in the world OP.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 17 Sep 2021 20:19:08 No.13653389 Report

Quoted By: >>13653495

>>13652957
>most european countries
O, you mean the socialist ones?

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 17 Sep 2021 20:20:09 No.13653392 Report

Quoted By: >>13653422

>>13653246
>I meant non-fiction
Only capitalism depends on an invisible hand to function.

Arno Niem

Arno Niem Fri 17 Sep 2021 20:20:18 No.13653393 Report

Quoted By:

>>13650674
1. Have meetings STANDING. This makes them end faster.
2. Have a strict chairperson; stick to the agenda, per point keep to the pyramid model (no going back down it; up to the descision).

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 17 Sep 2021 20:24:16 No.13653407 Report

Quoted By:

>>13653281
More tips
>There is always a guy who schedules a long meeting, is done quick, then drags the meeting on until the end of the scheduled time
>do not invite this person ever
>cuck him whenever possible and steer his meetings into ending very early
>"sounds like we're done" at the first pause
>"schedule another meeting when you get more of the groundwork done"
>when anyone asks "any questions?" don't sit in quiet like everyone else. Say "No questions, thanks everyone" and sign off immediately to start the leaving cascade
>For in person meetings, have someone outside the room on standby to call you or barge into the meeting if texted and remove you

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 17 Sep 2021 20:27:16 No.13653418 Report

Quoted By: >>13653428

>>13652868
Its not just without your labor its without the labor of everyone on that farm. Nothing makes your labor different from that of the other workers.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 17 Sep 2021 20:28:20 No.13653422 Report

Quoted By: >>13653438

>>13653392
Inability to distinguish figurative from literal is the sure sign of a deficient intellect

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 17 Sep 2021 20:29:29 No.13653428 Report

Quoted By: >>13653477

>>13653418
>Nothing makes your labor different from that of the other workers.
the ones who actually pick the produce create value. The ones who threaten the workers to work faster for the Owners benefit do not create value.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 17 Sep 2021 20:31:30 No.13653438 Report

Quoted By:

>>13653422
>Inability to distinguish figurative from literal is the sure sign of a deficient intellect
You believe a system of economics that is FIGURATIVE, ALAGORICAL, and UTOPIAN not LITERAL. You criticize a empirical and literal economic theory for being fictitious.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 17 Sep 2021 20:41:19 No.13653477 Report

Quoted By: >>13653509

>>13653428
Both labors are needed. The yeller is just another worker. Your classification is fake and arbitrary.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 17 Sep 2021 20:47:24 No.13653495 Report

Quoted By: >>13653499 >>13653522

>>13653389
You forgot a part of the term: socialDEMOCTRATIC. If european nations were full socialist like cuba and venezuela, they would be as much shithole as those

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 17 Sep 2021 20:49:58 No.13653499 Report

Quoted By:

>>13653495
Im venezuelan, i can say with 100% accuracy that venezuela is not socialist. It is closer to Somalia in economics than to Cuba.
They do like to say they are socialist, that cannot be denied.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 17 Sep 2021 20:53:35 No.13653509 Report

Quoted By: >>13653877

>>13653477
>we need people to crack whips over the workers so the rich can be richer

why?

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 17 Sep 2021 20:56:49 No.13653522 Report

Quoted By:

>>13653495
BTW I know the meme. And it's just a meme. "US so Rich b cuz capitalism." Well, what about Haiti? "Communists r so poor look at Venezuela!" well, what about China? It's retarded.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 17 Sep 2021 21:50:28 No.13653785 Report

Quoted By: >>13653861

>>13652916
Not having aspergers and liking to interact with other human beings doesn't make you the bad guy, anon

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 17 Sep 2021 22:14:09 No.13653861 Report

Quoted By: >>13654074

>>13653785
>Not having aspergers and liking to interact with other human beings doesn't make you the bad guy, anon
being incompetent and harassing competent people does.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 17 Sep 2021 22:18:09 No.13653874 Report

Quoted By:

>Scientifically speaking how do we remove meetings? I want to be left alone in the lab.
remove women
girls are allowed to be masters students but nothing after that. and that's only so they can find a husband, not because their research is needed

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 17 Sep 2021 22:22:57 No.13653877 Report

Quoted By: >>13653927

>>13653509
Because thats how work gets done in companies. Bosses are breathing down the workers necks to make sure they do their job. The fancier name for this in classy circles is supervisor, and among blue collar is foreman. They are part of the team of workers too.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 17 Sep 2021 22:37:45 No.13653927 Report

Quoted By: >>13653950

>>13653877
you failed to answer the question. "thats just how isn't done" is woefully inadequate

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 17 Sep 2021 22:51:19 No.13653950 Report

Quoted By: >>13653957

>>13653927
You asked for a reason, you asked why, and thats the reason. But i can explain it further. Why do workers need supervisors? Two reasons, one is laziness, many workers wont work unless they have someone reminding him to work several times a day. The second reason is quality control, many workers are not experienced and make mistakes, the supervisor checks their work and corrects them.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 17 Sep 2021 22:54:57 No.13653957 Report

Quoted By: >>13653963 >>13653976

>>13653950
>one is laziness, many workers wont work unless they have someone reminding him to work several times a day. The second reason is quality control, many workers are not experienced and make mistakes
of course people aren't motivated to make profits for other people. why should they be?

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 17 Sep 2021 22:59:23 No.13653963 Report

Quoted By: >>13653977

>>13653957
You're probably trolling but just in case: Some form of management is required no matter what, if you have a group of people (as part of an organization, any kind) working on something it needs to be coordinated in some way. I agree that in modern capitalism "management" is a career in itself and it's run by leeches who know nothing of what they're actually in charge of, but even in an idealistic utopian society some form of this must exist.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 17 Sep 2021 23:07:01 No.13653976 Report

Quoted By:

>>13653957
One question at a time ok? I answered your question. Are you willing to take an answer or is this just going to be goalpost moving all day?

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 17 Sep 2021 23:07:02 No.13653977 Report

Quoted By: >>13653996 >>13653997

>>13653963
>but even in an idealistic utopian society some form of this must exist.
"in a utopia you must make profits for others." that doesn't sound like any utopia I want to visit. this isn't a troll BTW. these are the most critical issues of the modern world. Alienation from the product of ones own labor is misery. millions can only cope with binge eating, opioids, or dropping out of society. Its extremely close to being a slave and demoralizing.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 17 Sep 2021 23:15:21 No.13653996 Report

Quoted By: >>13654009

>>13653977
If there was no exploitation would you still be ok with the concept of the manager? With the concept of the organization? Some people say companies should not exist and people should just work alone or with their families.
And what about the military, do you agree with the concept of rank and commanders or should everybody just be a soldier and grab a gun and take spontaneous decisions? Perhaps you also dont agree with the existence of something like the military. Or of schools.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 17 Sep 2021 23:15:36 No.13653997 Report

Quoted By: >>13654011

>>13653977
>in a utopia you must make profits for others.
When did I say that? Try to imagine some communist utopia, even then, some work would need to be done presumably to maintain the ultra advanced tech supporting everyone or whatever. Let's say everyone doing it are volunteers, you still need everything from engineers to laborers, and thus some management to coordinate this mass of people. You can't just have everyone doing whatever the fuck with no plan, and to set the plan, someone needs to make decisions, etc.
I'm not convinced you aren't trolling, children can grasp this concept. It's elementary and goes beyond any economic system.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 17 Sep 2021 23:22:17 No.13654009 Report

Quoted By: >>13654013 >>13654022

>>13653996
>If there was no exploitation would you still be ok with the concept of the manager? With the concept of the organization?
yes I would. If all the profits came back to the workers according to how much effort they put into it that would be great. The managers would get the lowest share since organizing isn't really labor, and creates no value.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 17 Sep 2021 23:24:09 No.13654011 Report

Quoted By: >>13654022

>>13653997
>Try to imagine some communist utopia, even then, some work would need to be done presumably
you need to read Marx. Of course there must always labor. The difference is who profits from that labor. In capitalism its the one who own the capital will collect the profits. In communism it's the laborer who keeps the reward of his toil.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 17 Sep 2021 23:25:01 No.13654013 Report

Quoted By: >>13654023

>>13654009
So if it creates no value why pay them at all? Why not just pay them zero? Weird considering you are not ok with people who dont contribute taking money, since thats exploitation of the worker (for you)

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 17 Sep 2021 23:28:19 No.13654022 Report

Quoted By: >>13654027 >>13654035

>>13654009
>>13654011
I've read marx. Now you go read about the khmer rouge.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 17 Sep 2021 23:28:32 No.13654023 Report

Quoted By: >>13654033

>>13654013
>So if it creates no value why pay them at all? Why not just pay them zero?
good point. They get nothing. I was just being charitable, but you are right they create no value, and people can organize themselves and are more than motivated since they keep the profits themselves.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 17 Sep 2021 23:30:32 No.13654027 Report

Quoted By: >>13654035

>>13654022
>Now you go read about the khmer rouge.
look mom I posted another meme!
As if the capitalist US doesn't drone strike people all day including kids.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 17 Sep 2021 23:31:20 No.13654033 Report

Quoted By: >>13654041

>>13654023
How are people going to organize themselves? Are they going to pick their own manager?

Anonymous

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Anonymous Fri 17 Sep 2021 23:32:40 No.13654035 Report

Quoted By: >>13654046

>>13654022
>>13654027
just the perfect example of what happens when you put power in the hands of laborers. who "do work", but can't think ahead like you seem to aspire for

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 17 Sep 2021 23:34:30 No.13654041 Report

Quoted By: >>13654051

>>13654033
>How are people going to organize themselves?
lol. as if humans couldn't organize themselves without a corporate whip to do it for them. How are unions organized?

>Are they going to pick their own manager?
There are no managers.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 17 Sep 2021 23:35:57 No.13654046 Report

Quoted By: >>13654052

>>13654035
capitalist US drone strikes a child every day. Why not it's profitable for someone.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 17 Sep 2021 23:37:27 No.13654051 Report

Quoted By: >>13654054

>>13654041
I asked you how they are going to organize themselves. Stop being paranoid you filthy antifita, and aswer a simple question. How are they going to organize? Theres no tricks, its a normal question

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 17 Sep 2021 23:37:32 No.13654052 Report

Quoted By: >>13654063

>>13654046
No one here is defending drone strikes you imbecile. They are simply telling you why your utopia can never exist.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 17 Sep 2021 23:38:32 No.13654054 Report

Quoted By: >>13654065

>>13654051
>I asked you how they are going to organize themselves.
the baker puts the dough in the oven he owns then sells it in his store front. he buys flour from the miller.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 17 Sep 2021 23:40:46 No.13654063 Report

Quoted By:

>>13654052
>No one here is defending drone strikes you imbecile
you trying to dishonestly link communism with violence as if capitalism isn't as violent. I'm reminding you how violent capitalism is.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 17 Sep 2021 23:41:25 No.13654065 Report

Quoted By: >>13654072

>>13654054
Fair enough, but what you are describing is not an organization. In an earlier post i wrote that some people did not agree with the concept of an organization, and thought people should just work with their families. You said you awre ok with organizations, just not with exploitations. However your answer (baker buys from miller, etc) implies a lack of organization, and an economy based on hundreds of millions of independent family business.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 17 Sep 2021 23:44:17 No.13654072 Report

Quoted By: >>13654075 >>13654088

>>13654065
>Fair enough, but what you are describing is not an organization
yes it is. a worker owns him means of production. He buys the materials he needs to make his wares and sells them. If he makes car chassis he buys plastics and feeds it into his injection mold machine and sells them. there is no difference.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 17 Sep 2021 23:45:16 No.13654074 Report

Quoted By: >>13654108

>>13653861
Being incompetent is not following the project progress, not knowing what people are working on and what your team members need.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 17 Sep 2021 23:45:36 No.13654075 Report

Quoted By: >>13654108

>>13654072
Thats not an organization. Thats 1 independent person. An organization is by definition a team of people working together.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 17 Sep 2021 23:51:10 No.13654088 Report

Quoted By: >>13654092 >>13654108

>>13654072
Okay, now implement quality controls and economies of scale. Tell me about intellectual property. We are really on our way to solving all the problems of society here. Groundbreaking stuff.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 17 Sep 2021 23:53:18 No.13654092 Report

Quoted By: >>13654161

>>13654088
Hes not aware yet that he has rejected the very concept of the organization, so for him there cant be economies of scale. The biggest economic organization for him should be independent craftmen like bakers. Which is ok desu.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 17 Sep 2021 23:58:49 No.13654108 Report

Quoted By: >>13654113 >>13654161

>>13654075
>>13654088
>>13654074

listen, I don't know why I have to convince you a man keeping the fruit of his own labor just. I don't know why you are arguing so hard for exploitation and slavery, but I'm going to leave this discussion here. Perhaps, you are like spongebob. You just want to make crabby patties for Mr.Krabs and that just gets you off like a subservient twat, but I and billions of people would rather keep the profits, instead of it all going to Mr.Krabs while he sits in his office counting money all day. There are reacord corporate profits in the US while many work and still collect welfare, so the taxpayer is supporting the billionaires employee. You seem to like this. Good for you. I'm sure it had nothing to do with 70 years of intense propaganda.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 18 Sep 2021 00:00:49 No.13654113 Report

Quoted By:

>>13654108
Bitch how is a single baker making bread in his shop "an organization"?

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 18 Sep 2021 00:18:34 No.13654161 Report

Quoted By:

>>13654092
>>13654108

I'm just finding it astonishing that someone can pseud so hard and remain confident in their ideas despite the fact that all priors show their idea will fail due to rationality long before the capitalist boogeyman even noticed.
I'd honestly be very interested in having an conversation to make the world's value creation more decentralized, but it would require some kind of organization to compete (there are a lot of companies that exist to do precisely this already) and in order to be successful in any meaningful way against TPTB therefore its out of the question for this thread apparently.
Also it shows very little life experience in failing to understand how incompetent that average person is in every corner of globe. So incompetent they can't even serve the common interest against this "Mr. Krabs" because they wouldn't even know what to do with their "labor" to create value if they took the advice and quit their jobs tomorrow. Again, Khmer Rouge (or any major communist revolution), you can't force people to become peasant farmers. You will only guarantee famine and bloodshed as people organize inefficiently for security rather than prosperity.

>inb4 US BOMBS CHILDREN REEE

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