/sci/ - Science & Math » Thread #13602490

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Schrodinger's Toilet

Anonymous Sat 04 Sep 2021 14:13:59 No.13602490 View Reply Original Report

Quoted By: >>13602764 >>13604482 >>13604611 >>13605385 >>13606665 >>13606699 >>13606710

>be me
>have low quality toilet that sometimes doesn't flush toilet paper properly
>place toilet paper in, lower the cap so I can't see
>flush
>the toilet paper is now in a superposition, it is both flushed and unflushed
>the moment I raise the toilet cap the universe will flip a coin and will decide whether the paper Is flushed or unflushed
>mfw doing advanced science at home

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 04 Sep 2021 14:27:42 No.13602529 Report

Quoted By:

kek

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 04 Sep 2021 14:37:32 No.13602561 Report

Quoted By: >>13602600 >>13602641 >>13602687 >>13602714 >>13605389 >>13608934

how the fuck is brainlet like me supposed to believe that interpretation of quantum relations? Like how on earth act of unspecified "observing" changes the immanent state of matter? what constitutes to observing? and how do we know that unobserved objects are actually in superposition and not just in one or the other state already?

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 04 Sep 2021 14:46:19 No.13602600 Report

Quoted By: >>13602606 >>13602754 >>13607010

>>13602561
They did some experiment by shooting a singular electron through a hole slit in half, when observed, the electron chose one of the two gaps to pass through, when not observed, the readings they got were that of waves, the electron behaved like a wave and somehow went through both gaps, It is the most solid evidence of superposition that we have

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 04 Sep 2021 14:49:20 No.13602606 Report

Quoted By: >>13602624 >>13602641 >>13607010

>>13602600
again, why and how observing it with bare eyes differed from looking at golden foil or whatever it was

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 04 Sep 2021 14:56:26 No.13602624 Report

Quoted By: >>13602632 >>13602641

>>13602606
Honestly no fucking idea, I like to believe that consciousness is something greater than just a byproduct of the brain If its able to change the way stuff works by just observing them

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 04 Sep 2021 14:57:58 No.13602632 Report

Quoted By: >>13602772

>>13602624
>If its able to change the way stuff works by just observing them
So can automated measurement.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 04 Sep 2021 15:01:26 No.13602641 Report

Quoted By: >>13602650 >>13602664

>>13602561
>>13602606
>>13602624
Not necessarily consciousness or observing with the eyes, but the act of forcing it to pick is what makes it pick, otherwise it doesn't pick.

For example, because there's no necessity for the paper to be flushed or not, the paper literally doesn't do either, because there's nobody to force it to. But after he looks, the universe realizes it's not possible to be superimposed, and the toilet needs to either flush it or not, because, otherwise there's a contradiction in logic.

So the experiment confirms that the universe quite literally doesn't even follow it's own rules except when you FORCE it to.

For example, 2+2=5 until you think about it and realize that it equals four, and then suddenly it equals 4.

Anything that forces the universe to give you a consistent answer will make it change its own answer. Lol.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 04 Sep 2021 15:04:06 No.13602650 Report

Quoted By: >>13602656

>>13602641
If we can look into a black hole and observe the singularity will It make the black hole fall apart? That would be a pretty cool theory

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 04 Sep 2021 15:05:16 No.13602656 Report

Quoted By: >>13602706

>>13602650
I'm saying this as matter cannot be in the same place at the same time, and black holes are hypothetically classified as "infinitely small"

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 04 Sep 2021 15:08:10 No.13602664 Report

Quoted By: >>13602763

>>13602641
ok so where is the border between interacting with world sufficiently enough that it forces world to pick one outcome or the other and interacting with it in such a way that it will not make that pick?

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 04 Sep 2021 15:12:39 No.13602687 Report

Quoted By: >>13602714 >>13602727 >>13602731

>>13602561
copenhagen intepretation which you are recounting has grossly fallen out of fashion
most common interpretation nowerdays is that it is an epistemological problem i.e. that it is in one or the other place (not both the same time) and we are simply unable to tell without making a further measurement which collapses the superposition

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 04 Sep 2021 15:16:24 No.13602706 Report

Quoted By:

>>13602656
lmao that you actually believe in that comic bookish black hole idiocy
>hey guys! i'm gonna go to space and fly at the spede of light and go to a black hole and time travel just like dr. who
can you believe that there are living, breathing people who think hollywood comic book movies are real science?

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 04 Sep 2021 15:17:35 No.13602714 Report

Quoted By: >>13602731

>>13602561
>>13602687
non-epistemological problem*

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 04 Sep 2021 15:21:05 No.13602727 Report

Quoted By: >>13603009

>>13602687
what? not that guy but how can you maintain both
1. it is in one place or the other
2. there is a superposition to be collapsed
without any contradictions?

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 04 Sep 2021 15:22:54 No.13602731 Report

Quoted By: >>13603009

>>13602714
>>13602687
>epistemology
take your meds schizo
>>>/lit/

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 04 Sep 2021 15:29:38 No.13602754 Report

Quoted By:

>>13602600
Why aren't the readings they are taking considered observing or measuring? Is it only considered observing if it's done by a human? Like, why wouldn't a reading that's taken during the experiment force it to behave like a particle?

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 04 Sep 2021 15:31:56 No.13602763 Report

Quoted By: >>13602784

>>13602664
It has to be on the quantum level, because think about the classical level of physics, and the big scale.

"a beach" is just many grains of sand! And even a grain of sand is just many atoms!

You need to go down to the very nature of things, and get to the smallest possible sizes before you can force things to happen. Because the neighboring grains of sand are forcing their neighbors to pick, and they are corrupting their own superposition by interacting with each other! You need to isolate something like an electron or photon like they did in the double slit experiment, so that none of its neighbors are corrupting it, and then it will superimpose like it did in the double slit experiment, until you force one of its neighbors to make it logically contradict, and then it will.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 04 Sep 2021 15:32:00 No.13602764 Report

Quoted By:

>>13602490
Don't tell reddit this, they'll make a subreddit on it reinforced by crazy pscyho moderators.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 04 Sep 2021 15:33:47 No.13602772 Report

Quoted By: >>13602863

>>13602632
the automated measurement pipeline exists in a superposition until observed by a human. you cannot disprove this.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 04 Sep 2021 15:36:56 No.13602784 Report

Quoted By: >>13602793 >>13602805

>>13602763
Didn't they do this experiment with a laser and get similar results? Shouldn't electrons in the beam force the others to act like particles whether they are observed by a human or not?

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 04 Sep 2021 15:39:46 No.13602793 Report

Quoted By:

>>13602784
The result was observed by a human, was it not? It existed in superposition until then. Everything involved did. The physical world only renders insofar as it is required to in order to be be observed by the only true creations of God - the immortal souls of Man.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 04 Sep 2021 15:42:10 No.13602805 Report

Quoted By: >>13602841

>>13602784
What they did was shoot a single electron at a time at the wall, and the pattern on the wall looked a lot different from how you would expect it to look.

Because they shot it through one of two holes in a wall and then it hit the wall in the back. One at a time. But there were marks on the wall that weren't even behind the holes that made it look like it went through the first wall.

So they set up a recording device near the holes to determine which hole it went through, and after they tried it again, doing the same thing, it only went through one hole at a time, and all the marks on the wall were behind the holes.

So what they confirmed is that originally the electron was acting as if it went through both holes... and that caused it to land in areas it shouldn't land, which is "impossible" if the electron was a particle.

But then it behaved like a particle after the recording device was set up. Because the recording device all it did was check which hole the electron actually went through, and it only got one result each time, and the electron changed behavior and it was only going through one hole at a time now...

So it's like the universe changed how it was behaving so that the logic of the experiment wouldn't fail.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 04 Sep 2021 15:42:16 No.13602807 Report

Quoted By: >>13602822

>quantum thread
>being overrun by schizos
name a more iconic combo

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 04 Sep 2021 15:45:59 No.13602822 Report

Quoted By:

>>13602807
the only people who care about quantum shit are top-level physicists and schizos
and there are not top-level physicists on 4chan

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 04 Sep 2021 15:49:29 No.13602841 Report

Quoted By:

>>13602805
There has to be some major flaw in the experiment. Is it possible that electrons are just waves but the recording device interferes with them to make them look like particles? Like, the recording device might act like a sea wall and align the wave to move in one direction sort of like a convex wave?

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 04 Sep 2021 15:55:15 No.13602863 Report

Quoted By:

>>13602772
>you cannot disprove this
I don't need to disprove it. You need to prove it, but you literally can't.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 04 Sep 2021 16:31:43 No.13603009 Report

Quoted By: >>13603022

>>13602731
idiot please read up on quantum mechanics
>>13602727
copenhagen explanation is that it is in a superposition truly i.e. in two places at once until we observe
more popular nowerdays is that it it is one of those two places at once but we simply cannot konw
so to mitigate that absense of knowledge people like david bohm assumed "hidden variables" that would allow us to know that despite the non-epistemological problem of finding that

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 04 Sep 2021 16:37:42 No.13603022 Report

Quoted By: >>13603029

>>13603009
>"hidden variables"
aren't hidden variables disregarded because of bell's theorem?

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 04 Sep 2021 16:40:31 No.13603029 Report

Quoted By:

>>13603022
Bell's theorem rules out local hidden variables. If you abandon the principle of locality altogether, you can still invent some unscientific explanation about inaccessible hidden variables to appease your autistic rage against randomness.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 05 Sep 2021 01:21:25 No.13604482 Report

Quoted By:

>>13602490
Thanks Op, I hope we meet again in a flushed toiled paper universe

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 05 Sep 2021 02:12:19 No.13604611 Report

Quoted By:

>>13602490
So retarded. whether or not your toilet paper has gone into the S-bend depends on fluid mechanics. Stop daydreaming you graduated high school. Because you didn’t.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 05 Sep 2021 08:31:32 No.13605385 Report

Quoted By: >>13605390

>>13602490
this would only be possible *theoretically* though

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 05 Sep 2021 08:33:52 No.13605389 Report

Quoted By:

>>13602561
>>>/lit/

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 05 Sep 2021 08:35:08 No.13605390 Report

Quoted By:

>>13605385
brainlet post

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 05 Sep 2021 17:27:13 No.13606665 Report

Quoted By:

>>13602490
If seriously, you replace pure state with a mixture of states because your states are incoherent.

Density matrix should be used instead of wave function. Not a good experiment.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 05 Sep 2021 17:38:04 No.13606699 Report

Quoted By: >>13606721

>>13602490
This doesnt make sense though. The Schroedingser cat experiment works because the Radiation decay part is said to be completely random, wheres the part of your pipe that makes your Toiletpaper flushed or not flushed is just dependant on the position/shape/mass etc of the Toilet paper, which are all beeing observable beforehand. Thus it is not a random event and could be easily predictable.

Anonymous

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Anonymous Sun 05 Sep 2021 17:42:38 No.13606710 Report

Quoted By:

>>13602490

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 05 Sep 2021 17:44:57 No.13606721 Report

Quoted By: >>13606728

>>13606699
The point i wanna make is theres a differnece between lack of knowledge of the outcome allthough mathematically and with our common understanding of physics possible to predict, and beeing yourself the cause of the outcome of an experiment by observation. You are not interacting with the toilet regardless if you observe it or not. The toiletpapers state is already predetermined, regardless if you open the lid or not.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 05 Sep 2021 17:47:27 No.13606728 Report

Quoted By: >>13606744 >>13606747

>>13606721
It's outcome has been predetermined by the people who built it, by the amount of times you flushed, by the amount of times you shat, the mass of each of your shit, the other stuff you rflushed down it etcetc... It all took its part on the condition of your toilet at the moment you did your flushing experiment.

Anonymous

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Anonymous Sun 05 Sep 2021 17:54:45 No.13606744 Report

Quoted By: >>13606747

>>13606728
ITT: /sci/ takes Schrodinger's Cat as anything but a strawman argument criticizing the Copenhagen Interpretation.
WOW

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schr%C3%B6dinger%27s_cat
>This thought experiment was devised by physicist Erwin Schrödinger in 1935,[1]
>in a discussion with Albert Einstein,[2] to illustrate what Schrödinger saw as the
>problems of the Copenhagen interpretation of quantum mechanics.

Anonymous

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Anonymous Sun 05 Sep 2021 17:55:46 No.13606747 Report

Quoted By:

>>13606744
Oops, didn't mean to quote this post, >>13606728
sorry!

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 05 Sep 2021 19:13:16 No.13607010 Report

Quoted By: >>13607312

>>13602606
>>13602600
Maybe both views are wrong and right at the same time.
Maybe every Atom in the universe is entangled to eachother, in terms of they interacted with eachother and thus "observed" eachother, destroying the wavefunction(they don't have to interact with Every other single atom, it can be a chain, Atom A proofs atom B etcetc. Now any object, even Millions or billions or trillions of years later is still an "observed" object or a collapsed wavefunction to say so.
While an Electron is just too small to be affected by it the same way.(dunno other reasons?)
This could also lead to proof of my concept that time exist simultaneously with its past and the future, like anything that happened in the past still exists up till today, it is just a Wavefunction until it accumulates with other wavefunctions into something material.

Anonymous

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Anonymous Sun 05 Sep 2021 20:34:18 No.13607312 Report

Quoted By: >>13607930 >>13608265

>>13607010
>my concept that time exist simultaneously with its past and the future,
Never mind /sci/ence, that's just plan grammatically incorrect.
You might as well claim "all altitudes are at the same height".

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 06 Sep 2021 00:00:50 No.13607930 Report

Quoted By: >>13608265

>>13607312
Ur inferior mind just cant comprehend it

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 06 Sep 2021 02:24:35 No.13608265 Report

Quoted By:

>>13607930
No,_your_ inferior mind can't say it without a logical grammatical error.
Also note:
>>13607312
>Never mind /sci/ence,
I'm not refuting the science, just your grammar.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 06 Sep 2021 08:53:35 No.13608934 Report

Quoted By:

>>13602561
Hint: consciousness is a state of matter thats entangled with everything

Anonymous

Anonymous ## Mod Mon 06 Sep 2021 15:38:25 No.13609911 Report

Quoted By:

This thread was moved to >>>/r9k/65279652

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