/sci/ - Science & Math » Thread #13456275

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Dark Matter is BS

Anonymous Sat 31 Jul 17:39:20 2021 No.13456275 View Reply Original Report

Quoted By: >>13456311 >>13456364 >>13456478 >>13456818 >>13458829 >>13458879 >>13461163 >>13461193 >>13461569 >>13462114 >>13462123 >>13462167 >>13462251 >>13462369 >>13462402 >>13462859 >>13462911 >>13464971 >>13464976

Why do we believe in Dark matter again?

>No direct observations to confirm it
>claim calculations point to it being real
>In reality dark matter is just a catchall blanket explanation in attempt to save our equations that are wrong in there claimed axioms
> J-just trust us guys this make believe matter will justify our measurements

Isnt it more realistic to realize and accept that we need a new equational framework to figure out why we are wrong.

>Aka we need a new physics instead of trying to save our incomplete/wrong physics by making up some imaginary matter to salvage a wrong model

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 31 Jul 2021 17:52:18 No.13456311 Report

Quoted By: >>13462539

>>13456275
>>In reality dark matter is just a catchall blanket explanation in attempt to save our equations that are wrong in there claimed axioms
one of the possible explanations for the anomaly in observations is that current models fail to predict certain scenarios or are generally lacking. the problem is that these models work completely fine in some areas but are failing in that area so there has to be something special we don't know yet. another possibility is a systematic error but that one is very improbable and it could also imply that space is not real
btw
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dark_matter#Observational_evidence

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 31 Jul 2021 18:11:53 No.13456364 Report

Quoted By: >>13456453 >>13459009 >>13461938

>>13456275
>No direct observations to confirm it
but we do observe it. this is precisely why know it exists. didnt read the rest of your post.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 31 Jul 2021 18:40:31 No.13456453 Report

Quoted By: >>13456466 >>13456484

>>13456364
>but we do observe it.

Nope we dont and its still just a hypothesis that has conflicting “evidence” >and NO DIRECT observations to prove it.

Just some smart people making up a new mystical matter to salvage there wrong axioms. It has asspull written all over it.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 31 Jul 2021 18:41:40 No.13456459 Report

Quoted By:

>Why do we believe in Dark matter again?
We don't. Now why do we believe in big bang theory?

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 31 Jul 2021 18:44:56 No.13456466 Report

Quoted By:

>>13456453
>scientists abandon axioms when theory doesn't match literal observation
good :)
https://hubblesite.org/contents/articles/dark-energy

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 31 Jul 2021 18:49:33 No.13456478 Report

Quoted By:

>>13456275
>Isnt it more realistic to realize and accept that we need a new equational framework to figure out why we are wrong.
obviously. this is the mainstream opinion of physicists. if you can successfully do this, you will be world famous. in the meantime, general relativity is excellent.
there's no conspiracy faggot. you are being invited to do exactly this. now, stop roleplaying and actually attempt to learn physics for real. like, with a textbook and doing problems.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 31 Jul 2021 18:52:34 No.13456484 Report

Quoted By: >>13458841 >>13462374

>>13456453
dark matter/energy are placeholder terms for anomalous OBSERVATIONS made by trained astronomers. there is no proper theory for them yet, hence the spooky name, and developing such a theory is a nobel-prize winning proposition . you have no idea what you're talking about.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 31 Jul 2021 20:41:18 No.13456818 Report

Quoted By:

>>13456275
DM is really the great brainlet filter.
All the midwits seethe about it because they are incapable to understand the overwhelming observational evidence.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 31 Jul 2021 21:58:04 No.13457135 Report

Quoted By: >>13457144

Dark matter/energy is because the belief in the big bang makes the calculations the way they are. When you look at the competing theories, there is no need to make up fanciful notions of an imaginary mass or energy.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 31 Jul 2021 21:59:37 No.13457144 Report

Quoted By: >>13465440

>>13457135
wrong

OP Sun 01 Aug 2021 12:53:53 No.13458829 Report

Quoted By:

>>13456275
nobody believes it, it is simply the best explanation we have so far for the phenomena we observe

Anonymous

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Anonymous Sun 01 Aug 2021 13:02:26 No.13458841 Report

Quoted By:

>>13456484
>a nobel-prize winning proposition
lmao they gave that stupid plastic trophy to obama for doing nothing other than being a nigger.
do you really still believe that other awards of the plastic trophy were merit based?

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 01 Aug 2021 13:28:45 No.13458879 Report

Quoted By: >>13462526

>>13456275
There are no direct observations of quarks, they are inferred from remnants of collisions in particle accelerators.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 01 Aug 2021 14:53:00 No.13459009 Report

Quoted By:

>>13456364
>Make up hypothetical dark matter to cope for not predicting galaxy rotation
>Be wrong about all sorts of other things too and claim that wrongness as evidence that you're right
>Continue to ignore theories that actually predict the things you get wrong

Anonymous

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Anonymous Sun 01 Aug 2021 18:25:12 No.13459421 Report

Quoted By:

>SCIENCE ISN'T ABOUT QUESTIONS IT'S ABOUT ANSWERS!!!
>DEAL WITH IT!!!

Anonymous

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Anonymous Mon 02 Aug 2021 04:23:14 No.13461123 Report

Quoted By:

>hey guise lets spend $15 billion on a telescope to look for dark matter

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 02 Aug 2021 04:45:29 No.13461163 Report

Quoted By: >>13462038 >>13462215 >>13462220

>>13456275
>Why do we believe in Dark matter again?
Because we have multiple indirect observations over decades of various unexplained effects that can all be explained by something that acts *exactly* like matter apart from the fact it's transparent to electromagnetism. If a single solution can answer multiple independent questions then the odds are good it's true.

Could it be something else? Of course. Could our laws of physics need modifying? Yes. Have any of the alternatives come close to explaining all the evidence? Not even remotely.

El Arcón

El Arcón Mon 02 Aug 2021 05:02:11 No.13461193 Report

Quoted By: >>13461379 >>13461553

>>13456275
>Why do we believe in Dark matter again?
Speak for yourself.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 02 Aug 2021 06:53:43 No.13461379 Report

Quoted By:

>>13461193
Baseless
Antisemitic
Sexist
Edgy
Degenerate

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 02 Aug 2021 08:04:26 No.13461553 Report

Quoted By:

>>13461193
You're entitled to that opinion even if it's wrong.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 02 Aug 2021 08:10:40 No.13461569 Report

Quoted By: >>13464984

>>13456275
keep /pol/ in /pol/

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 02 Aug 2021 11:23:19 No.13461938 Report

Quoted By: >>13461952 >>13462367 >>13464976

>>13456364
>but we do observe it
nope
>we observe its effects?
Prove that its the effects of dark matter, rather than some undiscovered force,. Maybe it's a byproduct of faulty calculations our side. Prove the effects are not God, or some magical kitten unironically.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 02 Aug 2021 11:30:46 No.13461952 Report

Quoted By: >>13462021

>>13461938
> Prove the effects are not God
this is /sci/ not /x/

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 02 Aug 2021 12:03:59 No.13462021 Report

Quoted By: >>13462080

>>13461952
how is dark matter a more valid explanation?

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 02 Aug 2021 12:08:26 No.13462038 Report

Quoted By: >>13462080

>>13461163
>Because we have multiple indirect observations over decades of various unexplained effects that can all be explained by something that acts *exactly* like matter apart from the fact it's transparent to electromagnetism

Does this mean it could be physical? Like you could bump into it but not see it? What are some of the most compelling observations thus far? Because I'm trying to understand but it seems like a huge cope

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 02 Aug 2021 12:27:21 No.13462080 Report

Quoted By: >>13462098 >>13464976

>>13462021
because it's a rational and logical answer based upon all available evidence. it doesn't rely on a sky fairy.

>>13462038
> Like you could bump into it but not see it?
It would not bump into you, you would not feel anything. It does not interact with normal matter or even itself except through gravity and maybe the weak or strong nuclear forces.

> What are some of the most compelling observations thus far?

> Galactic Rotation Curves - without some hidden mass we cannot explain how fast galaxies rotate.
> Galaxy Clusters - the observed gravity in galaxy clusters cannot be explained by all observed or inferred mass
> Galaxy Collisions - gravitational lensing does not match the visible location of the combined mass. (Bullet Cluster a classic example)
> Cosmic Microwave Background - the observed power spectrum cannot be explained by matter alone (this is possibly the #1 smoking gun)
> Large Scale Structures - similar to the CMB, the structure of the universe cannot be explain by matter alone (arguably the real #1)

there are others but those are the most clear.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 02 Aug 2021 12:39:04 No.13462098 Report

Quoted By: >>13462117

>>13462080
>because it's a rational and logical answer based upon all available evidence. it doesn't rely on a sky fairy.
it literally depends on sky fairy dust aka dark matter.
>most compelling observations thus far
Yes, we observe all of that, it indicates x, not necessarily dark matter, why is dark matter the null hypothesis over some undiscovered force, or potentially it's just a byproduct of faulty calculations our side (or God or a magical kitten which was added to belabor a point)

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 02 Aug 2021 12:45:42 No.13462114 Report

Quoted By:

>>13456275
I wanted to write something but I realised I just got ragebaited by stupid OP.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 02 Aug 2021 12:46:44 No.13462117 Report

Quoted By: >>13464976

>>13462098
> it indicates x, not necessarily dark matter
but that's literally what the label 'dark matter' is you mongoloid. a single consistent explanation for explains all observations. it says *nothing* about what is it.

whether it proves to be a particle, new physics, sky dust, aliens or whatever that is simply the microscopic cause for a macro-scale effect.

> potentially it's just a byproduct of faulty calculations
out of a list of possible explanations that one of the most unlikely, in fact its borderline impossible. bad calculations could explain one, maybe two, possible independent observations not all of them.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 02 Aug 2021 12:49:23 No.13462123 Report

Quoted By:

>>13456275
Dark Matter is to Dark Energy what Matter is to Energy under general relativity, that is to say, same shit different form. The only difference is that Dark Matter and Dark Energy are the mass and energy of space itself as opposed to mass and energy of what's INSIDE the space. That's why they make the biggest part of the universe, because the biggest (and most massive) part of the universe is space itself.

Also FUCK NIGGERS.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 02 Aug 2021 12:54:36 No.13462133 Report

Quoted By:

We can observe x, y, and z. In local systems, $x+y=z$ . In large systems, $x+y=z-1000000$ this implies the existence of some other variable that is approaching 0 in local systems but quite large in larger systems

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 02 Aug 2021 13:06:49 No.13462167 Report

Quoted By:

>>13456275
Spend an afternoon reading into what dark matter is and be amazed how much it has evolved since the 70's interpretation you are attacking now. https://arxiv.org/abs/1907.11775 is a decent starting overview.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 02 Aug 2021 13:23:51 No.13462215 Report

Quoted By: >>13462216 >>13462222

>>13461163
Observations *don't* behave exactly like we would expect from dark matter though. A few examples:

- Wide-binary star systems rotate too fast, but can't be explained by dark matter because it can't be packed into a system that small while sill working for galaxies.
- Galaxy rotation at each radius corresponds exactly with visible matter, which you would not expect given DM's supposed dispersed distribution.
- Galaxy rotation (and all other acceleration related anomalies) always stop matching predictions at the point in the radius where acceleration dips to 2x10^10 m/s^2, which is not explained by DM

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 02 Aug 2021 13:25:41 No.13462216 Report

Quoted By:

>>13462215
mean to say 2x10^(-10)

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 02 Aug 2021 13:29:48 No.13462220 Report

Quoted By: >>13462241

>>13461163
>Yes. Have any of the alternatives come close to explaining all the evidence? Not even remotely.
Actually yes. Still in development, but rapidly gaining on general relativity and already predicts many thing GR does not https://physicsfromtheedge.blogspot.com/2021/07/how-to-predict-almost-everything.html

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 02 Aug 2021 13:30:50 No.13462222 Report

Quoted By: >>13462240

>>13462215
Those wide-binary star system constraints make the assumption they do not contain a large amount of dark matter due to their size. That is not necessarily true. It is simply an input to simulations rather than an (inferred) observation.

> Galaxy rotation
I do not know what you are referencing there. Citation(s) needed.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 02 Aug 2021 13:36:16 No.13462240 Report

Quoted By:

>>13462222
I think this is it https://arxiv.org/abs/astro-ph/0311348

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 02 Aug 2021 13:36:23 No.13462241 Report

Quoted By: >>13462292

>>13462220
If I had a $ for every time some one posted about their new DM theory that can explain some aspect I'd be a rich anon. It's funny how they never go anywhere or are heard from again.

Anonymous

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Anonymous Mon 02 Aug 2021 13:37:48 No.13462251 Report

Quoted By:

>>13456275
All of science is bullshit. When will you plebs get it?

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 02 Aug 2021 13:49:04 No.13462292 Report

Quoted By:

>>13462241
Dark Matter hasn't gone anywhere either. Physics pretty much stalled as soon as everybody put their eggs into that basket.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 02 Aug 2021 14:22:55 No.13462367 Report

Quoted By:

>>13461938
>Jumps to magic or god
>proooooove its not magic
For all we know the laws of physics might change the farther you go out.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 02 Aug 2021 14:23:55 No.13462369 Report

Quoted By: >>13462393 >>13462396 >>13462531

>>13456275
What's the alternative? In detail please.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 02 Aug 2021 14:25:25 No.13462374 Report

Quoted By: >>13462911

>>13456484
No, he's right. They've only observed perceived effects of a hypothetical substance as a way of explaining their errors away. Its a cope and could be right or wrong. Claiming to know it exists makes you sound retarded.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 02 Aug 2021 14:32:48 No.13462393 Report

Quoted By:

>>13462369
The mechanism behind inertia breaks down in low-acceleration paradigms, causing the outer areas of galaxies to have less inertial mass, which allows them to move fast while still being bound to the galaxy

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 02 Aug 2021 14:34:19 No.13462396 Report

Quoted By:

>>13462369
That our understanding of gravity is deeply flawed.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 02 Aug 2021 14:35:46 No.13462402 Report

Quoted By:

>>13456275
>Why do we believe in Dark matter
nigger youre not a /sci/entist if you go around believing random hypothesis's

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 02 Aug 2021 15:05:30 No.13462526 Report

Quoted By:

>>13458879
Anything smaller than Rutherford's atomic model of protons, neutrons and electrons is not real.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 02 Aug 2021 15:06:56 No.13462531 Report

Quoted By: >>13462803

>>13462369
>What's the alternative?
God did it.

Anonymous

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Anonymous Mon 02 Aug 2021 15:08:41 No.13462539 Report

Quoted By: >>13462699

>>13456311
>https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dark_matter#Observational_evidence
>Observational_evidence
observational evidence for something that is defined by the observers as fundamentally unobservable
honk honk

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 02 Aug 2021 15:46:43 No.13462699 Report

Quoted By: >>13462759 >>13464976

>>13462539
they are observing anomalies in the data, not the thing causing the anomalies

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 02 Aug 2021 15:58:40 No.13462759 Report

Quoted By: >>13463308

>>13462699
>they are observing anomalies in the data, not the thing causing the anomalies
>they
so what you're tying to tell us is that you're not personally involved in the topic and have no knowledge or sophistication about it beyond simply repeating what "they" say.
your belief in "dark matter" is no different than someone who believes that jesus walked on water because a priest says it happened.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 02 Aug 2021 16:07:37 No.13462803 Report

Quoted By:

>>13462531
How did god do it though?

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 02 Aug 2021 16:16:57 No.13462859 Report

Quoted By:

>>13456275
dark matter is a term that acts as a place holder for the mass anomalies we see. Since it acts just like mass, the name “matter” stuck, but it is not necessarily matter. If general relativity is just weong, then that is the dark matter. Why do you autists have such a hard time with a simple placeholder? If you don’t like the term, go solve the problem.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 02 Aug 2021 16:30:44 No.13462911 Report

Quoted By: >>13463031

>>13456275
>we need a new physics
Well, nobody is stopping you.

>>13462374
You're an spectacular idiot.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 02 Aug 2021 17:07:21 No.13463031 Report

Quoted By: >>13463636

>>13462911
>Well, nobody is stopping you.
False. Wikipedia editors, arxiv maintainers, and other publications love to prevent anything but orthodox incrementalism from ever seeing the light of day.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 02 Aug 2021 18:28:33 No.13463308 Report

Quoted By: >>13466020

>>13462759
>so what you're tying to tell us is that you're not personally involved in the topic
this is retarded, if you use this logic then all of microbiology, high energy physics, chemistry and pretty much all science is a lie
>have no knowledge or sophistication about it beyond simply repeating what "they" say.
i have undergrad knowledge about this topic, you don't need to have research level knowledge in everything to be allowed to talk, i briefly learned about it in my physics course and read a bit on my own.
>your belief in "dark matter" is no different than someone who believes that jesus walked on water because a priest says it happened.
the difference between jesus walking on water and data collected from a telescope is that i can hypothetically go to this telescope and see the data in my own eyes while with jesus or any supernatural belief i can never see it in my own eyes

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 02 Aug 2021 19:46:01 No.13463636 Report

Quoted By:

>>13463031
Neither Wikipedia nor Arxiv are relevant to research endeavours but if Arxiv rejected you, your research is probably crap. Go publish in a real journal if you think otherwise.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 03 Aug 2021 03:01:39 No.13464971 Report

Quoted By:

>>13456275
>>No direct observations to confirm it
>>claim calculations point to it being real

Why does math make you uncomfortable?

Anonymous

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Anonymous Tue 03 Aug 2021 03:03:09 No.13464976 Report

Quoted By: >>13465864

>>13461938
>Prove that its the effects of dark matter, rather than some undiscovered force,.
>Prove the effects are not God, or some magical kitten unironically.
Quit while you're ahead next time. All you needed was the first post.

>>13462699
>they are observing anomalies in the data, not the thing causing the anomalies
Professional shadow chasers.

>>13462080
>cannot explain
>cannot be explained
>does not match
>cannot be explained
>cannot be explained by matter alone
>My proof is the absence of all these other things/phenomena.

Cool story bro. You have "no explanation". Stop pulling shit from a vacuum.

>>13462117
>but that's literally what the label 'dark matter' is you mongoloid. a single consistent explanation for explains all observations. it says *nothing* about what is it.
BECAUSE YOU HAVE NO PROOF OF WHAT IT ACTUALLY IS.

>out of a list of possible explanations that one of the most unlikely,
Take a measuring tape you. Go stand under a light. Measure your shadow. Congrats, you can now claim that a shadow is real, simply because you measured it.

>>13456275

>Why do we believe in Dark matter again?
Because it's a "belief" system. Welcome to math, where as long as you can quantify it then they'll treat it as being real.

>Aka we need a new physics instead of trying to save our incomplete/wrong physics by making up some imaginary matter to salvage a wrong model
How "real" do you think matter actually is? Even in physics matter is fucking bullshit and does pants-on head retarded shit, fucking neutrons turn into protons on their own. Light turns to hydrogen, vice-versa. As if we needed "Dark matter" or "anti-matter" when regular "matter" already does all that shit on its own.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 03 Aug 2021 03:06:12 No.13464984 Report

Quoted By: >>13464987

>>13461569
Cringe

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 03 Aug 2021 03:07:30 No.13464987 Report

Quoted By: >>13465274

>>13464984
are you just hopping around threads to post this?

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 03 Aug 2021 05:14:25 No.13465274 Report

Quoted By:

>>13464987
I'm sorry, but 4chan needs to be identical to Redddit, thats just how its going to be. Now that the majority of people posting on 4chan are Reddditors, you can't stop it.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 03 Aug 2021 06:36:30 No.13465440 Report

Quoted By:

>>13457144
No u

Anonymous

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Anonymous Tue 03 Aug 2021 10:45:34 No.13465864 Report

Quoted By:

>>13464976
you're a retard

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 03 Aug 2021 12:04:20 No.13466020 Report

Quoted By: >>13466032

>>13463308
>all of microbiology, high energy physics, chemistry and pretty much all science is a lie
pretty much, science is on it’s way out

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 03 Aug 2021 12:09:58 No.13466032 Report

Quoted By:

>>13466020
The scientific method can't compete with one yokel and his desire to the be the centre of the universe.

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