/co/ - Comics & Cartoons » Thread #96967771

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300 and Watchmen were so critically acclaimed.

Anonymous Wed 22 Nov 02:57:19 2017 No.96967771 View Reply Original Report

Quoted By: >>96967846 >>96968134 >>96972688 >>96972959 >>96973098 >>96973118 >>96973119 >>96973129 >>96973191 >>96973206 >>96973271 >>96973294 >>96974172 >>96975699 >>96976349 >>96976415 >>96979437 >>96979626 >>96979676

What went wrong?
Ever since snyder helmed the DCEU his films have been reviled and hated

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 22 Nov 2017 03:00:03 No.96967846 Report

Quoted By: >>96968924

>>96967771
I'm gonna blow your fucking mind with this.
Ready?
Make sure you're ready.
Superman isn't Watchmen or 300. Characters are not universal. Different settings and messages require different sensibilities to render effectively.

Anonymous

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Anonymous Wed 22 Nov 2017 03:00:30 No.96967855 Report

Quoted By: >>96967893 >>96967965 >>96973108 >>96973504 >>96975196 >>96980762

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 22 Nov 2017 03:01:55 No.96967893 Report

Quoted By:

>>96967855
I was going to say that being critically acclaimed sounded weird.

Anonymous

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Anonymous Wed 22 Nov 2017 03:02:14 No.96967902 Report

Quoted By: >>96967965 >>96973504 >>96975196 >>96976447 >>96980762

Anonymous

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Anonymous Wed 22 Nov 2017 03:04:11 No.96967957 Report

Quoted By: >>96968200 >>96973504 >>96975196 >>96976136 >>96980762

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 22 Nov 2017 03:04:41 No.96967965 Report

Quoted By: >>96968032 >>96968058 >>96968080

>>96967855
>>96967902
So Snyder's films were always hated by critics?

Why did WB give him the helm to DCEU then?

Anonymous

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Anonymous Wed 22 Nov 2017 03:06:30 No.96968013 Report

Quoted By: >>96974170 >>96979743

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 22 Nov 2017 03:07:08 No.96968032 Report

Quoted By:

>>96967965
Some people just fall upwards.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 22 Nov 2017 03:08:19 No.96968058 Report

Quoted By: >>96973253

>>96967965
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deborah_Snyder

Anonymous

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Anonymous Wed 22 Nov 2017 03:09:16 No.96968080 Report

Quoted By: >>96973393

>>96967965
His wife is one of the top people on warner, second only to the chairman himself

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 22 Nov 2017 03:11:24 No.96968134 Report

Quoted By:

>>96967771
>Watchmen was critically acclaimed
LOL

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 22 Nov 2017 03:13:48 No.96968200 Report

Quoted By:

>>96967957
>When Zack Snyder and James Gunn worked together.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 22 Nov 2017 03:44:04 No.96968924 Report

Quoted By: >>96969007 >>96969218 >>96969359 >>96969407 >>96973420 >>96975113

>>96967846
Wrong. Characters like Superman can work in any setting because they are versatile and enduring. Audiences just stupidly refused to accept a new take on that character of Superman, regardless of how good it was, because every mother fucker alive knows who Superman I'd and has preconceptions about him.

Why are people so boring? Why does everyone want everything to be the same shit, time and time again?

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 22 Nov 2017 03:47:15 No.96969007 Report

Quoted By:

>>96968924
>Audiences just stupidly refused
>No it's the Audiences that are wrong! Snyder couldn't have done anything wrong!

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 22 Nov 2017 03:56:17 No.96969218 Report

Quoted By:

>>96968924
>audience opinion is wrong
>critcs are wrong
>top critcs are wrong
>oscar arong wrong
>public reception(box office) is wrong
>I'm the only person right in this world

Or maybe JUST maybe the movie sucked, snyder is a fucking terrible director and you are a 2 digit iq faggot pretending to get a message that simply don't exist in a shitty story.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 22 Nov 2017 04:02:46 No.96969359 Report

Quoted By: >>96969407 >>96975081 >>96975199 >>96976798

>>96968924
Deconstructions are not something you can build a universe upon

There wouldn't be an MCU if they used Superior Iron Man, Captain Hydra or Unworthy Thor as their first movies.

Likewise, making things like TDK returns, Death of Superman and Injustice for the DCEU were questionable choices

300 and Watchmen were liked by fans because they didn't stray too far from the already gritty deconstructions of their sources

Imagine if someone made 300, but it is rated pg13, and the Spartans win over the Persian empire with the power of friendship

Or Watchmen, but is a happy team of superheroes saving the world like the Harry PartRidge animated parody

Tou can only bent the characters so much before the are no longer the same and the fans of the medium start bitching

Also, critics never liked Snyder that much, he is a great cinematographer but he always falls into stumps as a storyteller

He wasn't the right man to build a franchise with 20 interconnected movies

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 22 Nov 2017 04:05:14 No.96969407 Report

Quoted By:

>>96968924
The entire rest of the planet and every reasonable says you're wrong. You can't even be bothered to make a new copypasta.
And there's nothing new about deconstructing Superman.
>>96969359
300 isn't a deconstruction of anything. It's just Frank Miller being Frank Miller

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 22 Nov 2017 07:04:13 No.96972688 Report

Quoted By:

>>96967771
bump

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 22 Nov 2017 07:20:29 No.96972959 Report

Quoted By: >>96973091 >>96973124 >>96973174 >>96973668

>>96967771
Marvel happened.

Cape movies got turned into formulaic quips and anything breaking that mold is "bad".

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 22 Nov 2017 07:28:16 No.96973091 Report

Quoted By: >>96973184

>>96972959
Yeah, who would have thought introducing 3 main characters in their own movies before shoving them into one ensemble movie would be a good idea.

Also who would have thought taking impossible, even ridiculous, at their base superhero characters super serious would go wrong?

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 22 Nov 2017 07:28:47 No.96973098 Report

Quoted By:

>>96967771
He doesn't get or like the characters especially Superman.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 22 Nov 2017 07:28:57 No.96973100 Report

Quoted By: >>96973127

>300: average score 6.1/10

>Watchmen: average score 6.3/10

Care to try again?

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 22 Nov 2017 07:29:34 No.96973108 Report

Quoted By:

>>96967855
Man critics are retarded.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 22 Nov 2017 07:30:07 No.96973118 Report

Quoted By:

>>96967771
The only thing that went wrong was Whedon. Snyder is kino incarnate.

Also they're only reviled and hated by the critics Marvel paid.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 22 Nov 2017 07:30:08 No.96973119 Report

Quoted By:

>>96967771
those were rated R films, so that was probably important

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 22 Nov 2017 07:30:31 No.96973124 Report

Quoted By:

>>96972959
When you're strategy to break the mold is to make ridiculously shit films it shouldn't be a surprise that they fail. Also do you Snyder cocksuckers just pretend Deadpool and Logan don't exist when you say shit like that? Regardless of whether or not you liked them they definitely weren't formulaic Marvel rip offs.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 22 Nov 2017 07:30:37 No.96973127 Report

Quoted By:

>>96973100
They were pretty good movies though, and saying this as someone who watched Ragnarok 3 times I'd watch 300 over it if both were on television.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 22 Nov 2017 07:30:46 No.96973129 Report

Quoted By:

>>96967771
the suits are putting toomuch presure on him i guess,and whats worse he is paying attention to them

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 22 Nov 2017 07:32:04 No.96973146 Report

Quoted By: >>96973179 >>96973431

MoS was good but suffered from all the chracter driven stuff in the middle being too short and the action towards the end being too long. BvS is legitimitely great and in my opinion criminally misunderstood. I really think it's one of the best movies in the genre. Justice League is hardly even a Snyder film in its current form and probably had the studio breathing down his neck well before he dropped out so whatever.

Anonymous

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Anonymous Wed 22 Nov 2017 07:34:08 No.96973173 Report

Quoted By: >>96973440 >>96980924

>critically acclaimed

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 22 Nov 2017 07:34:11 No.96973174 Report

Quoted By:

>>96972959
>still blaming Marvel when the MCU has just been following the trends set by Fox's first X-Men trilogy and Sony's first Spider-Man trilogy

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 22 Nov 2017 07:34:18 No.96973179 Report

Quoted By: >>96973364 >>96973431

>>96973146

What is so fundamentally misunderstood about BvS? What did audiences at large not "get"?

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 22 Nov 2017 07:35:09 No.96973184 Report

Quoted By: >>96973229

>>96973091
People liked, the serious Daredevil runs, Red Sun, Invincible, Mircaleman, hell the original infinity gauntlet saga you know where Pete mentions his supporting cast got wiped out and later he's killed by being bludgeoned to death?

It's execution you don't need quips to work

Anonymous

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Anonymous Wed 22 Nov 2017 07:35:40 No.96973191 Report

Quoted By: >>96973229

>>96967771
>Watchmen was critically acclaimed
It has a 6.2/10 average review.
That is lower than Iron Man 2.
It is lower than Amazing Spider-Man.
Watchmen is not an "acclaimed" movie, it is simply on the lower end of "not rotten and awful".

It is only called a great movie by Snyderkino enthusiasts.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 22 Nov 2017 07:37:04 No.96973206 Report

Quoted By: >>96973246 >>96973291 >>96973808

>>96967771
This is a director that decided to have Superman kill Zod so Superman's aversion to killing would have a backstory. Because that apparently needed a backstory because Superman just not wanting to kill people is unbelievable. Snyder did not understand Superman. Plain and Simple.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 22 Nov 2017 07:38:45 No.96973229 Report

Quoted By: >>96973262 >>96975219

>>96973184

>you don't need quips to work

Yeah, you need a coherent narrative with characters people care about. Disney/Marvel does that well. WB/DC...not so much.

>>96973191

And "Watchmen" also suffered from having been exceptionally late to the party in terms of adapting the themes and messages of the original comic. About the only thing "Watchmen" had over other comic book/superhero movies is the sex - and yes, that includes Comedian raping Silk Spectre.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 22 Nov 2017 07:40:27 No.96973246 Report

Quoted By:

>>96973206

And what's worse is how it didn't even matter because the very next film had Superman going up against Mutant Zod the Doomsday Clod and Supes didn't even hesitate to both fight and kill the cavetroll. Having Supes hesitate to kill again might have added some semblance of dramatic heft to his death.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 22 Nov 2017 07:40:54 No.96973253 Report

Quoted By:

>>96968058
You should probably read that article. He pulled her up, not the other way around. She's never produced anything that wasn't directed by him before WW.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 22 Nov 2017 07:41:41 No.96973262 Report

Quoted By:

>>96973229
Watchmen's biggest problem is that it even TRIES to be a Superhero movie.
The story is supposed not supposed to be about how the Justice League has a lot of problems getting along with each other.
It's supposed to be about fucked-up people LARPing as comic book adventurers who can't solve the world's problems, and then a Neurotic Superman appears and is super-effective.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 22 Nov 2017 07:42:23 No.96973271 Report

Quoted By: >>96973308

>>96967771
Was 300 actually any good? I passed on watching it back when it was all hyped up because it just looked really gay.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 22 Nov 2017 07:44:00 No.96973291 Report

Quoted By: >>96973341 >>96973346 >>96973363

>>96973206
>This is a director that decided to have Superman kill Zod so Superman's aversion to killing would have a backstory.

You do know that almost the exact same thing happened in the Superman comics, right?

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 22 Nov 2017 07:44:27 No.96973294 Report

Quoted By:

>>96967771
>movies are all style and no substance
>has only a superficial understanding of the characters and materials he adapts
>got hired through his wife who works at warner bros.
>disciple of ayn rand

i can't understand why anyone would hate his movies.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 22 Nov 2017 07:45:15 No.96973308 Report

Quoted By: >>96973328 >>96973369

>>96973271
It's Gulf War propaganda masquerading as a Sandal and Toga epic crossed with Lord of the Rings.
If you can tolerate a movie about ancient world slave-mongering sadists beating their chests about FREEDOM!!! while fighting trolls and mutant Iranians then go for it.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 22 Nov 2017 07:46:26 No.96973328 Report

Quoted By: >>96973347

>>96973308
there's nothing lord of the rings about 300 besides faramir being one of the spartans

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 22 Nov 2017 07:48:03 No.96973341 Report

Quoted By:

>>96973291
>You do know that almost the exact same thing happened in the Superman comics, right?

Uh, no it didn't. If you're talking about the "Superman killing Zod and his goons in an alternate universe", that version of Superman had his no-killing rule long before that.

Anonymous

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Anonymous Wed 22 Nov 2017 07:48:20 No.96973346 Report

Quoted By: >>96975231

>>96973291
>You do know that almost the exact same thing happened in the Superman comics, right?

What HASN'T happened in comics by this point? A lot of it is stuff that wouldn't sell to regular audiences, especially the family audiences that used to enjoy Superman movies.

A considerable number of these awkward stories come from John Byrne, including the one you're referencing.
Byrne had scientists forcibly doing tests on pregnant 12 yr old girls to make supermen, let WB try to sell that.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 22 Nov 2017 07:48:20 No.96973347 Report

Quoted By: >>96973382

>>96973328
Not that anon, but the headsman? Other shit?

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 22 Nov 2017 07:49:25 No.96973363 Report

Quoted By: >>96974619

>>96973291

"Man of Steel" never tries to imply that Superman was raised with the value of "murder is wrong". It never gets into why Supes feels so shitty about killing Zod. It literally assumes that the audience knows Superman has a "no-kill rule" like Batman - simultaneously relying on the general knowledge of Superman as a storytelling crutch and spitting in the face of people who have that knowledge by contriving a situation where Superman had to kill just so the film could have a massive third-act CGI superbattle with bonus 9/11-invoking imagery.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 22 Nov 2017 07:49:26 No.96973364 Report

Quoted By: >>96973511

>>96973179

I'm not sure if I'd say they didn't get it, intellectually, I mean there's some smaller stuff, narratively and thematically, that's easy to miss on first watch but none of that is really integral to understanding it. I have enough faith in the general audience to say they probably understood the plot and its themes just fine.

It's misunderstood in the sense that I feel many took it not being what they expected as it not having any merit whatsoever. I mean, I see why portraying those characters the way they did and focussing on the things they focussed on is not what many people want to see in this kind of movie, with characters like these, in times like these. People want something hopeful and escapist. I get it. I had some of the same feelings when I first watched it, took me a rewatch to really appreciate the movie.

But if you take it as what it as, if you accept it being dark, subversive and operatic to the point of occasionally bordering on camp I think it's pretty rewarding. It's an extremely specific vision with probably an extremely specific audience but it's not bad in the way something like, I dunno, Pixels or, actually, Suicide Squad is bad.

But then, I'm the guy who loves Southland Tales, so take all of that with a grain of salt.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 22 Nov 2017 07:49:48 No.96973369 Report

Quoted By: >>96973405 >>96973467

>>96973308
>The spartans keep going on and on about freedom
>they have a king
>80% of their population are slaves
>the entirety of their senate is old wealthy land owners

makes me kek every goddamn time

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 22 Nov 2017 07:50:56 No.96973382 Report

Quoted By:

>>96973347
300 had War Rhinos instead of Elephants, and the dark lord is a 7' Transexual instead of ghost armor, there's roughly the same ratio of hill trolls tho.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 22 Nov 2017 07:51:42 No.96973393 Report

Quoted By:

>>96968080
That's complete bullshit, producers are like tier 4 at best at Warner Bros.
I don't know where people got the idea that she's that all-powerful Hollywood mogul when she's not even an influential producer beyond the DC movies.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 22 Nov 2017 07:52:49 No.96973405 Report

Quoted By: >>96973445

>>96973369
If you read up about the Persian Empire of the time, it was practically the most liberal part of the world. Xerxes was leading a coalition of nations, he wasn't flogging a chain-gang of whipped slaves at all.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 22 Nov 2017 07:53:46 No.96973420 Report

Quoted By:

>>96968924
Don't blame the audiences, audiences will take anything and run with it if it's presented to them correctly.
The tone wasn't the issue, the "new take" wasn't an issue, making shitty movies was the issue.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 22 Nov 2017 07:54:26 No.96973431 Report

Quoted By: >>96973516 >>96973550 >>96973637

>>96973146
>>96973179
I don't think many critics failed to understand BvS perhaps they treated it more harshly because by taking itself more seriously it invited itself to be treated more harshly and obvious bias too, but they weren't off the mark. Even for example the "Martha" scene. On its most base level as a climax to Batman's character arc in the movie it makes perfect sense it's not like it's hard to get
>Show Bruce's origin
>Shows that he's clearly still emotionally damaged by the experience
>MoS happens
>These godlike entities who have seemingly no care at all for mere mortals kill what we can assume is hundreds if not thousands in a battle
>Film shows Batman going down a dark path, cops are scared, less human movements, Alfred literally says branding (which lead to beatings or death) is new.
>Then we learn coming back wasn't about stopping minor criminals and that the whole thing with Lex was never about stopping Lex, but instead getting Kryptonite to kill Superman. (which if you believe he killed those guys in the car chase paints that in an even worse light)
>He then dawns more menacing costume further away from his traditional batman days and goes to kill the guy
>Finally at the climax moments before he unambiguously crosses a line and kills a guy who cannot defend himself for no reason other than fear of what he could do Superman says through random chance something that gets through to batman
>He realizes the humanity in the man he's about to kill, he realizes that he was about to become just as bad as the random thug who killed his parents, and is so disgusted he gives up his hate, reforms back into his old self (old costume, uses fists and gadgets instead of just shooting all of them via the plane etc, actually makes jokes (the levity is supposed to show contrast)
>then he saves the life a kind mother named Martha perhaps symbolically doing what's he's always wanted.

It just wasn't done well.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 22 Nov 2017 07:55:05 No.96973440 Report

Quoted By:

>>96973173
looking over that list Synder just seems to be a tool used for WB.
Watchman was made both for the merc and to get pressure on Moore to let it go back to DC. Dawn of the Dead was made as a trademark security. Ga'Hoole was because agreements for the film rights were at risk, hell Man of Steel was a pressure push to get out during the risk of losing the rights to Clark Kent/Superman.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 22 Nov 2017 07:55:24 No.96973445 Report

Quoted By: >>96976402

>>96973405
I know, that parts even better. The Persian Empire was one of the most benign Empires in the world and let annexed lands keep their governments and religions.

Even better - the Greeks LOST that war, Athens burned (something the Persian Emperor regretted), and then Persia had to withdraw due to supply issues stemming from the Athenian Navy under Themistoclese fucking their shit at sea. The Spartans barely contributed at all except to buy time for the Athenian navy

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 22 Nov 2017 07:57:08 No.96973467 Report

Quoted By:

>>96973369
two kings, actually

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 22 Nov 2017 07:59:42 No.96973504 Report

Quoted By: >>96973532 >>96973538 >>96973688 >>96974586 >>96975104 >>96976447

>>96967855
>>96967902
>>96967957
Wait so he was always shit? It was just the producers who were incompetent by casting him?

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 22 Nov 2017 08:00:10 No.96973511 Report

Quoted By: >>96973791

>>96973364

>if you take it as what it as, if you accept it being dark, subversive and operatic to the point of occasionally bordering on camp I think it's pretty rewarding

No, it isn't.

The Knightmare adds nothing to the film - no setup to or payoff for anything done before or after that sequence. Lex's plan is so convoluted and full of logic holes that Batman could drive the Bat-tank through it without killing someone. Bruce is never shown as the Batman he was, which means we never see the contrast between hopeful/optimistic/"good" Batman and cynical/nihilistic/"bad" Batman necessary for the deconstruction to work. Superman has even less personality than MoS, and just as empty a narrative surrounding him. Lois Lane could be cut out of this movie near-entirely without anything being lost. The logic of Wonder Woman having been around for a century but knowing less about other metahumans than Lex Zuckerberg is astounding in its idiocy. The narrative structure of the film is so meandering and fractured that I would be amazed if you could plot the damn thing out in five parts, let alone three. Oh, and one more thing: "Martha"...just..."Martha".

A film does not necessarily need a coherent narrative. (Shit, I love "Utena: The Movie", and that ends with one of the main characters turning into a car because SYMBOLISM.) But audiences generally want to be able to follow a narrative and care about characters. The DCEU offers only incoherent narratives and characters who are so far beyond just being metaphors for recognizable human behavior that they become parodies of themselves and the "known" version that came before them - all so DC could make a "dark" superhero universe based around turning The Most Famous Superhero Ever into a brooding blue-suited bitch.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 22 Nov 2017 08:00:35 No.96973516 Report

Quoted By: >>96973547 >>96973724 >>96973808

>>96973431

Yes, I've seen MovieBob's video too. And I absolutely get his point, it's clunky in the sense that Superman saying "Save Martha" is a bit contrived because noone in that situation would mention their mother by her first name. But I don't think a single piece of clunky dialogue and Affleck's performance not quite selling his reaction stop it from working thematically.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 22 Nov 2017 08:01:33 No.96973532 Report

Quoted By: >>96974108

>>96973504
boyo's never made a good film in his life

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 22 Nov 2017 08:02:02 No.96973538 Report

Quoted By:

>>96973504
Pure Nepotism. It's what WB runs on.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 22 Nov 2017 08:02:38 No.96973547 Report

Quoted By:

>>96973516

>I don't think a single piece of clunky dialogue and Affleck's performance not quite selling his reaction stop it from working thematically

You would be one of the few people who think that way. Even by the standards of superhero/comic book movies, that is an absolutely ridiculous bit.

Anonymous

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Anonymous Wed 22 Nov 2017 08:02:39 No.96973550 Report

Quoted By: >>96973589

>>96973431
The main problem is simple:
Snyder wanted to have his Conflicted, Angry, Menacing and Controversial Superman...
and it didn't sell any better than Morose Stalker Superman in Returns to audiences.
So the studio pushes hard for the Superman audiences want but Snyder does not.
It becomes a horrible fucking creative conflict.

By Justice League the studio is fed up with the premise of Superman being a heel, and bring in Whedon to feebly try and rehabilitate the character, but having Superman act live Reeves for all of 10 minutes is too little too late.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 22 Nov 2017 08:05:37 No.96973589 Report

Quoted By: >>96973692

>>96973550

Not to mention how JL retcons Superman as being a Reeve-style Superman before his death, tackling criticism of the way Superman was handled in MoS and BvS.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 22 Nov 2017 08:09:07 No.96973637 Report

Quoted By: >>96973674 >>96973834 >>96974772

>>96973431
>He realizes the humanity in the man he's about to kill, he realizes that he was about to become just as bad as the random thug who killed his parents, and is so disgusted he gives up his hate, reforms back into his old self (old costume, uses fists and gadgets instead of just shooting all of them via the plane etc, actually makes jokes (the levity is supposed to show contrast)

Which still boils down to the fact that Superman's mother just happens to have the same name as Batman's. If Superman said any other name, he'd be royally screwed. Also, Batman continues killing dudes even after that scene, which completely undermines any character development of that moment.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 22 Nov 2017 08:11:49 No.96973668 Report

Quoted By:

>>96972959

>anything breaking that mold is "bad"

Explain to me the existence of Logan and Wonder Woman.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 22 Nov 2017 08:12:03 No.96973674 Report

Quoted By:

>>96973637

It also ignores how Lois shows up at basically the last second. She could've shown up and thrown herself in front of Superman without saying a word, forcing Batman to kill her if he wanted to kill Supes. A moment of dramatic hesitation as Batman figures out what he has become, then he tosses away the spear. A much better scene with no need for Bale-esque growling.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 22 Nov 2017 08:13:45 No.96973688 Report

Quoted By: >>96973725

>>96973504
300 made a ton of dough,: 456mil gross on a 65mil budget.
Watchmen was meh at best in terms of money.
MoS did pretty decent: 668mil on a 225mil budget.

Honestly if they kept his budgets down he might be considered a bankable director.

Anonymous

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Anonymous Wed 22 Nov 2017 08:13:59 No.96973692 Report

Quoted By: >>96973740 >>96973757

>>96973589
It took WB too long to figure out that a Superman built to appeal to teenage loner-autists wasn't going to appeal broadly enough to give them them returns they were banking on.

Justice League's theatrical cut is a desperately lame apology; by the time they whip out the "I believe in Truth, and Justice" and the old theme tune, there's just too much damage done.

What's inexplicable is how they thought it was a good idea to return Diana to her DAMAGED state in BvS, when the actually successful Wonder Woman ended on a forward, positive note.

Affleck Batman was always complete shit, it's incredibly the amount of fanboyism it gets on /co/. Justice League takes an even larger shit on the character.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 22 Nov 2017 08:16:40 No.96973724 Report

Quoted By: >>96973749

>>96973516
The problem isn't that it doesn't work thematically, it's that it looks fucking stupid and forced.
See Snyder's movies make sense thematically, albeit laboriously, but that's not what's most important to make a good story.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 22 Nov 2017 08:16:44 No.96973725 Report

Quoted By: >>96973773

>>96973688
>Watchmen was meh at best in terms of money
He says as he carefully avoids posting the easily findable grosses of Watchmen

Stop being such a goddamn apologetic shill, for just a single day.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 22 Nov 2017 08:17:52 No.96973740 Report

Quoted By: >>96973801 >>96973871

>>96973692

WB's largest mistake with the DCEU - the mistake it makes in pretty much every film but "Wonder Woman" - is the insistence on answering to fan backlash and criticism. Even "Man of Steel" was basically "we're gonna get as far away from 'Superman Returns' as we possibly can because people seemed to really hate that movie".

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 22 Nov 2017 08:18:54 No.96973749 Report

Quoted By:

>>96973724

>Snyder's movies make sense thematically

BvS had a coherent theme?

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 22 Nov 2017 08:19:00 No.96973751 Report

Quoted By: >>96973820

Superman didn't seem out of character in MoS, he was just in a somewhat grim and "realistic" movie that was obviously trying to ape the style and atmosphere of the Nolan Batman trilogy. I think this could have worked if Snyder had an endgame that led to Superman becoming more positive and confident about his role in the world. Presumably it was expected to have a sequel or two before moving on to crossover material.

I don't care about the no killing rule. It was always a goofy artifact left over from the Silver Age and there is no more reason to cling to it than there is to cling to plotlines like Lex Luthor going back in time to become Superman's dad just to mess with his head.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 22 Nov 2017 08:19:40 No.96973757 Report

Quoted By:

>>96973692
>What's inexplicable is how they thought it was a good idea to return Diana to her DAMAGED state in BvS, when the actually successful Wonder Woman ended on a forward, positive note.
Makes more sense narratively desu, not that that matters more at this point but, you know.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 22 Nov 2017 08:20:42 No.96973773 Report

Quoted By:

>>96973725
Jesus Christ dude, not everybody is into your companywar shit.
I hate Snyder's movies, I just couldn't be bothered to copy the actual figures.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 22 Nov 2017 08:22:10 No.96973791 Report

Quoted By: >>96973880 >>96973962

>>96973511

Supermans central character arc is "Is my presence actually good for this world?" which makes sense considering his backstory. He spent his entire childhood having weird powers that made it hard for him to relate to other people, when he found out what the deal wit him is he attracted an alien warlord to the world who attempted the genocide of the entire human race and could only be defeated in a battle that cause massive destruction.He tries to do good but death and destruction seem to follow him so he starts to wonder if there really is a place for him among humans. I think that's a solid premise.

We didn't see what this version of Batman was like before but we know that he hasn't always been like this through his interactions with Alfred. In a perfect world we would have had a Batman movie before that ends with the death of Robin but it's not the one we live in. If even Alfred is starting to lose faith in him we can assume Bruce has gone off the deep end.

The dream sequence or "Knightmare", if we wanna use that incredibly dorky expression, is, apart from being a neat action sequence for its own sake, a neat insight into how Bruce sees Superman. An evil fascist alien overlord. Yes, the flying demon henchmen are a pointless but inoffensive reference and yes, if I had to reedit the movie i'd cut out the scene with the Flash afterwards that implies it's a vision of the (potential) future but I don't mind it in general.

I mostly agree with the point about Wonder Woman. I can kinda see how she didn't openly interfere with purely human matters like wars and natural disasters and such but if she was around to fight Doomsday at least she should have been around to fight Zod. The movie would be better in general if it had less of that franchise movie stuff (which leads us back to the Flash scene) but if you wanna work on a movie like this on a budget like this yiu probably can't avoid stuff like that.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 22 Nov 2017 08:22:50 No.96973801 Report

Quoted By:

>>96973740
They almost did something neat out of it in BvS, but it ends up feeling super fucking insecure.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 22 Nov 2017 08:23:31 No.96973808 Report

Quoted By: >>96973863

>>96973516
I've felt it didn't work well before bob's movie even beyond the clunky delivery you have to assume what Batman was like before the changes to make his rebirth into it work. Let's not even get into the fact that it failed to connect to people which is kinda the point of cinema. Even a statement as pretentious as "cinema as a religious experience" kinda assumes it will connect with the audience so somewhere along the line it missed it's mark. Conceptually it's flawless execution wise you needed something more, it could have just been the rest of the movie cause honestly I think bob and others conflate their negative feelings about aspects into one another. Like people hating JL so much nothing except the GCI deserves a 4/10, plus back on Bob it's hypocritical of him and other critics to postulate that hypothetically you didn't need a Ant-man or BP movie to care for them then go around and say AM, Flash, Cyborg needed more time, sure it would be better if they did (and I've had friends say it's enough) but it's not a deal breaker.

Also on the line of Batman's rebirth yeah we can assume he was like "classic" Batman or Nolanman but that's cheat, like I disagree with >>96973206 why should I assume anything is a given about Superman, explaining a no kill rule makes sense. Cause here's the thing Superman in the comics absolutely will not kill, he didn't even kill Darksied in FC "the counter note" merely disengaged him from eality so that he'd fall into the black hole that was his heart. That's the kind of super dedication that has more reason behind it than "well the ordinary good person wouldn't kill other people" because an ordinary person if they had a gun (in a situation where they couldn't run) would definitely aim to at least debilitate and probably accidentally kill. Superman would drop the gun and go at the guy 1v1 instead just for the chance to save the knife guy too. Super dedication like that I feel bares reasoning.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 22 Nov 2017 08:24:27 No.96973820 Report

Quoted By: >>96974796

>>96973751
>Superman didn't seem out of character in MoS
I'm sorry but Superman moping around on fishing boats between age 18 and 33 is OOC as fuck.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 22 Nov 2017 08:26:14 No.96973834 Report

Quoted By:

>>96973637
Like I said execution-wise it didn't do it right. Like I don't think saying "mother" would fix it but like it'd at least just be bad and not a meme.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 22 Nov 2017 08:27:40 No.96973844 Report

Quoted By:

Say what you will here about critically acclaimed or what, but I felt 300 and Watchmen fit his doom and gloom gritty edgy style better than supes. Superman is a boyscout, not the Comedian. So while I enjoyed the other two to an extent, it felt like Snyder was fit there. But not with the JL.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 22 Nov 2017 08:29:14 No.96973863 Report

Quoted By: >>96973962 >>96973970

>>96973808
It's not like "I killed this genocidal maniac once and it felt bad until I kissed my gf" is that great a motivation either, especially given how little is made out of it in BvS.
I mean seriously, is there anything in BvS that harkens back to some sort of regret for having had to kill?

Anonymous

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Anonymous Wed 22 Nov 2017 08:29:44 No.96973871 Report

Quoted By: >>96973911

>>96973740
Man of Steel's trailers promised a movie that wasn't delivered in theaters, it did massive frontloaded box office, with the help of months in advance pre-sales and stifling critics til it opened. It fell out of theaters on word-of-mouth, because it is in fact a non-Hopeful, overlong shitfest.

Batman vs Superman promised to have the Caped Crusader, the most bankable character in Superherodom, beat the shit out of the asshole in Man of Steel. And Wonder Woman!
Audiences weren't prepared for Batman to be an even worse asshole than Superman, and for the movie to blatantly try and revise the events of Man of Steel and rehabilitate Superman's image. Still, it had Batmobiles batmobiling and colossal marketing, so while it fell way short of Civil War it wasn't a catastrophe.

Justice League blatantly ignores all issues of theme and character from the rest of the DCEU. Cavill was always Christopher Reeve, Batman needed a Snickers bar, and Wonder Woman is still the reluctant hero we left in BvS. The rest of the cast is just thin as fuck Hollywood tropes, and audiences just don't give much of a fuck, in spite of critical supression and flooding audience review boards with paid responses.

Fuck the DCEU. No one building it had anything more than contempt for the comics and the fans of the mythos.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 22 Nov 2017 08:30:31 No.96973880 Report

Quoted By: >>96973938 >>96973955 >>96973962 >>96974052

>>96973791

>Supermans central character arc is "Is my presence actually good for this world?"

And if anything had actually been done with that arc - narratively and thematically - in BvS, maybe that would mean something. But the film ignores the gigantic upheavals in global politics, religion, etc. that Superman's presence would have on the world in favor of giving us the Brooding Blue-suited Bitch.

Showing Batman in his "good" state - or even having Alfred directly tell us about Batman's "good" state - would have made far more of a difference than relying on the same kind of cultural osmosis that BvS wanted to either mock, sidestep, or mock while sidestepping. (Mockstepping? We'll go with that.)

The Knightmare is a clunky piece of shit that serves no purpose in the film. Take it out and it does not damage the film at all. And the "WE HAVE TO TAKE IT AS AN ABSOLUTE CERTAINTY" speech, combined with all the prior brooding about Superman, shows how Batfleck feels about Supes without the need for an action sequence that shits all over the film's two primary characters and has no connection to the narrative other than the tenuous one you just tried to make. If you can pull an entire sequence out of a film without having a negative effect on the film, that sequence IS a negative effect on the film.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 22 Nov 2017 08:33:00 No.96973911 Report

Quoted By: >>96973946 >>96973969

>>96973871
>and Wonder Woman is still the reluctant hero we left in BvS.
Seriously though, I keep seeing this criticism, but why wouldn't she be? Her movie was a prequel, there's no narrative reason for her to act in JL like she did in WW.
And this is another checkmark on the list of why you don't make prequels.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 22 Nov 2017 08:34:46 No.96973938 Report

Quoted By:

>>96973880
Justice League doesn't even mention the destructive alien attack, that Superman is an alien, or that he was killed by a fellow alien.

The whole premise of Superman's controversial alien heritage is completely dropped. That he's superhuman is meaningless, as we have a superhuman league of heroes following superhumans in Suicide Squad.

The only theme left by JL is "we are going to blow up a lot of CGI shit, plz gib us a billion."

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 22 Nov 2017 08:35:38 No.96973946 Report

Quoted By: >>96973991

>>96973911

>I keep seeing this criticism, but why wouldn't she be?

Superman's death is supposedly the catalyst for Batman becoming less of a murderous dickhead. Why wouldn't it spur Diana into returning to her old ways of being a superhero who actively tries to help people?

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 22 Nov 2017 08:36:02 No.96973955 Report

Quoted By:

>>96973880
>the same kind of cultural osmosis that BvS wanted to either mock, sidestep, or mock while sidestepping. (Mockstepping? We'll go with that.)
MoS did the same thing, it was all about mockstepping the perceived audience's view of Superman.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 22 Nov 2017 08:36:50 No.96973962 Report

Quoted By: >>96974053

>>96973863
Executional error not a idea error.
>>96973880
>>96973791

This how about instead of the Nightmare/future vision why not have some flashback to the good old days so we at least know the new Batman, so that the contrast is more stark and not just in our perceived idea of Batman but in the provable DCEU version.

Although I think you're too harsh on the nightmare like remove the references it's an okay scene.

Anonymous

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Anonymous Wed 22 Nov 2017 08:37:17 No.96973969 Report

Quoted By: >>96974032

>>96973911
The Jenkins film intentionally moves her character arc away from being this tragedy-weary figure lurking in the shadows; and audiences and critics rewarded it with awesome reviews and large monies.

Do you really think it makes sense to devolve her character back to BvS? In a movie that is already pretending that Superman was never like he was in the previous two films?

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 22 Nov 2017 08:37:22 No.96973970 Report

Quoted By: >>96974008 >>96974076 >>96974877

>>96973863

>It's not like "I killed this genocidal maniac once and it felt bad until I kissed my gf" is that great a motivation either, especially given how little is made out of it in BvS.

Nothing from MoS carries over from BvS outside of "Supes 9/11'd Metropolis and Zod parked his car in the middle of the city." For all Snyder said that BvS would deal with the consequences of the aftermath of Man of Steel, it never engages with anything interesting.

I still can't believe that Snyder made the Superman Trials about a TOTALLY UNRELATED INCIDENT TO THE ZOD INVASION. He invented some totally new tragedy involving roasted Africans and magic bullets and Jimmy Olsen being executed for literally no reason other then to give Lois Lane the most worthless subplot in comic movie history.

Anonymous

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Anonymous Wed 22 Nov 2017 08:38:40 No.96973987 Report

Quoted By: >>96974011 >>96974036 >>96974069 >>96974097

There are people in this thread right now who still do not understand MoS and BvS

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 22 Nov 2017 08:38:58 No.96973991 Report

Quoted By:

>>96973946
Because nothing in BvS indicated that it did. After Supes dies she mostly just stands there. They made a big stink about the effect it had on Batman, and it """made sense""" for him, but Diana? She wasn't in the same place as Batman in regards to Superman.
They just kind of forgot to tell us how the events of the movie had an effect on her I guess.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 22 Nov 2017 08:40:15 No.96974008 Report

Quoted By: >>96974033

>>96973970

The Lois subplot was there literally just so Lois could be in the movie for more than five minutes. She was even more of a prop in BvS than she was in MoS; she might even be more of a prop in BvS than Rachel was in The Dark Knight Trilogy.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 22 Nov 2017 08:40:46 No.96974011 Report

Quoted By:

>>96973987
We get it.
We just still think they suck.

Anonymous

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Anonymous Wed 22 Nov 2017 08:42:14 No.96974031 Report

Quoted By: >>96974079 >>96974139

>Everyone says that about [Christopher Nolan’s] Batman Begins. ”Batman’s dark.” I’m like, okay, ”No, Batman’s cool.” He gets to go to a Tibetan monastery and be trained by ninjas. Okay? I want to do that. But he doesn’t, like, get raped in prison. That could happen in my movie. If you want to talk about dark, that’s how that would go.

>“I thought, if it were Jesse Eisenberg and he got out and he goes, ‘I’m Jimmy Olsen,’ you’d be like, oh my God, we’re gonna have Jimmy Olsen in the whole movie, right?’” Snyder says. “And then if he got shot, you’d just be like, ‘What!? You can’t do that.’”

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 22 Nov 2017 08:42:17 No.96974032 Report

Quoted By: >>96974077

>>96973969
Nigga let me make it clear
1917->2016->2017
Besides wasn't JL half done by the time WW was in theaters?

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 22 Nov 2017 08:42:23 No.96974033 Report

Quoted By:

>>96974008

>he might even be more of a prop in BvS than Rachel was in The Dark Knight Trilogy.

At least Rachel got a great death scene.

Snyder somehow got a bad performance out of Amy Adams, which is pretty incredible considering the talent he had to work with.

Anonymous

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Anonymous Wed 22 Nov 2017 08:42:37 No.96974036 Report

Quoted By: >>96974057 >>96974129

>>96973987
Director who holds caped heroes in contempt makes off-tone movie about a tormented super-alien raised by a sociopath who reluctantly agrees to put on under-armor by the promise of cougar vagina.

Did I miss anything?

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 22 Nov 2017 08:44:02 No.96974052 Report

Quoted By: >>96974182 >>96974236

>>96973880

>And if anything had actually been done with that arc - narratively and thematically - in BvS, maybe that would mean something. But the film ignores the gigantic upheavals in global politics, religion, etc. that Superman's presence would have on the world in favor of giving us the Brooding Blue-suited Bitch.

Superman being a controversial public figure is a major plotpoint. We get politicians, media people, the capitalist oligarchy, the general public being divided ovee how they should treat him. Could it have been more in depth about it? Sure but it's a really long movie as it is.

>Showing Batman in his "good" state - or even having Alfred directly tell us about Batman's "good" state

He pretty much did, though. We have Alfred being shocked about him starting to brand criminals, we have him talking about good men turning cruel, you really telling me you could get more specific without it being even more clunky? Maybe you could have had a flashback, I guess.

>The Knightmare is a clunky piece of shit that serves no purpose in the film. Take it out and it does not damage the film at all. And the "WE HAVE TO TAKE IT AS AN ABSOLUTE CERTAINTY" speech, combined with all the prior brooding about Superman, shows how Batfleck feels about Supes without the need for an action sequence that shits all over the film's two primary characters and has no connection to the narrative other than the tenuous one you just tried to make. If you can pull an entire sequence out of a film without having a negative effect on the film, that sequence IS a negative effect on the film.

I disagree. Have you seen the new Blase Eunner? Had a lot of little sequences with little relevance to the main plot but they were all interesting enough on their own right to not detract from it.

Plus, again, thematic significance. The movie hat a not very subtle theme about creeping fascism taking hold of the world that this sequence is all but laying bare.

Anonymous

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Anonymous Wed 22 Nov 2017 08:44:04 No.96974053 Report

Quoted By: >>96974236

>>96973962
>Executional error not a idea error.
How? How is saving the world by killing a guy (when the plot purposefuly didn't give you any other way) a good motivation to not kill?
Please explain it to me.

Anonymous

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Anonymous Wed 22 Nov 2017 08:44:21 No.96974057 Report

Quoted By: >>96974097 >>96974114

>>96974036
literally just proved my point, thanks

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 22 Nov 2017 08:44:50 No.96974069 Report

Quoted By: >>96974113 >>96974236

>>96973987

Your problem is that you hate how the films turned out, but you can't admit it, so you go on and on about how "normies" and "plebians" and "Marveldrones" can't understand these films because they're too "deep" despite said films having the intellectual depth (and CGI quality) of a VeggieTales episode. You invested so much of your time and energy into wanting to think WB couldn't fuck up Superman, Batman, and the rest that when WB did fuck it up, you convinced yourself that they didn't fuck it up, but that people fucked up by "not being fair" or "not getting it" or "having a bias against Marvel".

Your problem isn't that people didn't get these films. Your problem is that they did.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 22 Nov 2017 08:45:24 No.96974076 Report

Quoted By:

>>96973970
>I still can't believe that Snyder made the Superman Trials about a TOTALLY UNRELATED INCIDENT TO THE ZOD INVASION. He invented some totally new tragedy involving roasted Africans and magic bullets and Jimmy Olsen being executed for literally no reason other then to give Lois Lane the most worthless subplot in comic movie history.
That never even hit me. Fucking Christ.

Anonymous

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Anonymous Wed 22 Nov 2017 08:45:26 No.96974077 Report

Quoted By: >>96974156

>>96974032
>Besides wasn't JL half done by the time WW was in theaters?
This is a film where they specifically brought back actors to film scenes that tried to make them less shit.

And Gadot was neither fat nor covered in beard. The entire scene with Batman dressing her down is completely unnecessary, it makes both of them look terrible.
Bruce looks like an incredible hypocrite;
Diana regresses into being a soft, hesitant gurl.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 22 Nov 2017 08:45:38 No.96974079 Report

Quoted By:

>>96974031
His lack of understanding of the source material is truly astounding.

This man's entire career is a cruel joke.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 22 Nov 2017 08:46:50 No.96974097 Report

Quoted By: >>96974155

>>96973987
>>96974057
Please explain for us small-brains.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 22 Nov 2017 08:47:29 No.96974108 Report

Quoted By:

>>96973532
I mean 300 wasn't great but it was decent.

I really really liked sucker punch.
But then on my second viewing a few years later I realized they weren't really prostituting the girls and it knocked down my enjoyment a little but it was still a great film.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 22 Nov 2017 08:47:32 No.96974113 Report

Quoted By: >>96974161 >>96974171 >>96974216

>>96974069
what is this projecting holy shit, you literally cannot fathom someone enjoying something you don't

Anonymous

View Same Google iqdb SauceNAO Snyder.gif, 1MiB, 480x270

Anonymous Wed 22 Nov 2017 08:47:36 No.96974114 Report

Quoted By: >>96976812 >>96979774

>>96974057
".....and in this scene, the franchise is killed"

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 22 Nov 2017 08:49:06 No.96974129 Report

Quoted By:

>>96974036
>by the promise of cougar vagina.
I don't think that had anything to do with it but otherwise yes.

The fucking of pa kent is what really made me hate that film.

Anonymous

View Same Google iqdb SauceNAO you_didn_t_see_that_coming____qu (...).jpg, 178KiB, 800x500

Anonymous Wed 22 Nov 2017 08:49:42 No.96974139 Report

Quoted By: >>96974165

>>96974031
>you’d be like, oh my God, we’re gonna have Jimmy Olsen in the whole movie, right?’” Snyder says. “And then if he got shot, you’d just be like, ‘What!? You can’t do that.’”
Literally "didn't see that comink" tier. Fucking hacks.
AND that fucked another character up, since I'm guessing Eisenberg's reason to reject the Jimmy role was that he didn't want to just have 2 minutes of screen time and then get shot in the face. So We got Eisenlex instead.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 22 Nov 2017 08:51:11 No.96974155 Report

Quoted By: >>96980898

>>96974097
even if I write you a fucking essay you still wouldn't like it, there's no reasoning with a NOTMUH

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 22 Nov 2017 08:51:36 No.96974156 Report

Quoted By:

>>96974077
>And Gadot was neither fat nor covered in beard.
Fair point.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 22 Nov 2017 08:51:51 No.96974161 Report

Quoted By:

>>96974113
That's not what this is.

This is someone still insisting four years later that the only reason people didn't like Man of Steel is because they just didn't get it.

That can only come from a place of total insecurity.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 22 Nov 2017 08:52:02 No.96974165 Report

Quoted By: >>96974202 >>96974340

>>96974139
Speaking of Lex, how do they deal with the whole injustice league or whatever knowing all their secret identities? And Martha. Every other movie is another supervillain kidnapping Martha?

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 22 Nov 2017 08:52:39 No.96974170 Report

Quoted By:

>>96968013
This is a movie made for /a/ sticc pedos not men.

Anonymous

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Anonymous Wed 22 Nov 2017 08:52:44 No.96974171 Report

Quoted By:

>>96974113
No, no one has a problem accepting that you love Snyder films.
You seem to believe that translates into the being broadly well-liked, intelligently written, worthy of critical praise, and wrongly denied huge box office.

No one is protesting you liking them, we are just laughing at the premise that they are misunderstood and under-appreciated.

No one is telling you how to feel about them, so stop trying to tell us how "objectively" great they are. We don't find them so, in the least.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 22 Nov 2017 08:52:54 No.96974172 Report

Quoted By: >>96974215 >>96974232

>>96967771
Snyder can deliver memorable visuals, as long as he takes his time and there are realistic constraints on him, budgetary or otherwise. But he shouldn't be writing. To be blunt, he's a dumb guy who tries to write smart scripts. His ambitions exceed his skill. It's admirable, but the results only serve to highlight his shortcomings.

Find suitable scripts, give him enough time and keep his more indulgent impulses in check, and he can probably still put out some good movies.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 22 Nov 2017 08:53:26 No.96974179 Report

Quoted By:

God I hope Justice League really does lose money.

That's the only thing these people respond to.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 22 Nov 2017 08:53:35 No.96974182 Report

Quoted By: >>96974241 >>96974326 >>96974457

>>96974052

>We get politicians, media people, the capitalist oligarchy, the general public being divided ovee how they should treat him.

Yes, and this matters for all of a few minutes. The film never follows through with this as a major dramatic arc with a clear narrative throughline, even though it would have been relatively easy to do even without contriving the African massacre. Like, hi, a fucking 9/11 happened in Metropolis and no one seems to care about that?

>We have Alfred being shocked about him starting to brand criminals
>you really telling me you could get more specific without it being even more clunky?

"You never used guns before now." One line. ONE. Even delivered offhand, it would have done a lot.

>Had a lot of little sequences with little relevance to the main plot but they were all interesting enough on their own right to not detract from it.

Those sequences in "Blade Runner 2049" were likely about building atmosphere at the bare minimum. The Knightmare sequence in BvS sets no atmosphere for the rest of the movie, ruins the narrative flow of the film by taking place right in the middle of the film with no warning or connection to anything before or after, and offers nothing of any thematic or narrative value to the film. You talk about the "creeping fascism", but that wasn't even a major plot point, much less a theme that received any significant, in-depth exploration in the rest of the film.

If you can pull an entire sequence out of a film without having a negative effect on the film, that sequence is a negative effect on the film. If I watched BvS and skipped the Knightmare sequence, what would I be missing from that sequence that is not already somewhere else in the film's narrative and would otherwise be required to fully comprehend the narrative itself?

Anonymous

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Anonymous Wed 22 Nov 2017 08:55:01 No.96974202 Report

Quoted By:

>>96974165
>planning ahead
>sticking to your plan

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 22 Nov 2017 08:56:14 No.96974215 Report

Quoted By:

>>96974172
Even with an amazing he'd still deliver a bad movie, because he's incapable of getting good performances out of actors.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 22 Nov 2017 08:56:22 No.96974216 Report

Quoted By:

>>96974113

You can like the films all you want. Go nuts. But the entire years-long backlash to the critical reception of BvS is about more than just liking the films - it is about justifying a series of horrible decisions by filmmakers, actors, studios, and major media conglomerates so you can take a "side" in a bullshit brand war and build your identity - in part or in whole - around being both a defender of the DC brand and someone who is "misunderstood" for liking a film that the majority of critics and audiences did not.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 22 Nov 2017 08:57:40 No.96974232 Report

Quoted By: >>96974265

>>96974172

>Snyder can deliver memorable visuals, as long as he takes his time and there are realistic constraints on him, budgetary or otherwise.

"Sucker Punch" proves otherwise.

>But he shouldn't be writing.

"Sucker Punch" proves this point, too.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 22 Nov 2017 08:58:03 No.96974236 Report

Quoted By: >>96974275 >>96974299 >>96974310

>>96974069
Wow man the films may have been bad but at absolute minimum they were as deep as any of the Marvel films.

>>96974053
Because it's only in the aftermath that DCEU Superman could really feel the weight. That in that moment he couldn't rise above and couldn't become the man who could do the impossible, and that from now on he will.
>>96974052
Yes there's really no reason it couldn't have instead had Batman's flashback just show us some quick scene with him as good Batman. And Alfred doesn't really paint a good picture other than saying he wasn't cruel before other than that Batman knowledge is based on however you think Batman is supposed to be based on other media.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 22 Nov 2017 08:58:26 No.96974241 Report

Quoted By:

>>96974182
This is a movie that shows the Crime Alley scene twice, in case the people still in their seats had forgotten what Batman's core motivation is.

Snyder thinks his fans are dumb; and in this at least he's probably not wrong.

Anonymous

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Anonymous Wed 22 Nov 2017 08:59:15 No.96974249 Report

Quoted By: >>96979936

So how do they explain Clark Kent coming back to life to the public?

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 22 Nov 2017 09:00:34 No.96974265 Report

Quoted By: >>96974362 >>96975452 >>96975465

>>96974232

>Sucker Punch

I'm amazed that Snyder had a career after that. he took WB's money and made a 2 hour rape fetish weeaboo nightmare and they still let him direct MoS afterwords.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 22 Nov 2017 09:01:12 No.96974275 Report

Quoted By:

>>96974236

>Wow man the films may have been bad but at absolute minimum they were as deep as any of the Marvel films.

When did I say otherwise? I never accused any Marvel film of being the goddamned "Godfather". This isn't even about Marvel films; this is about DC's films and the myriad errors within them. Marvel didn't force DC into putting the keys to the Kingdom Come in the hands of Zack Snyder.

Anonymous

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Anonymous Wed 22 Nov 2017 09:02:55 No.96974299 Report

Quoted By:

>>96974236
>Wow man the films may have been bad but at absolute minimum they were as deep as any of the Marvel films.
All right, he's whipped lads. He's curled up in his fall-back bunker.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 22 Nov 2017 09:03:40 No.96974309 Report

Quoted By:

>People not liking 300
What, seriously? It was fucking awesome, probably the only good thing he ever did.

>historical inaccuracies
>spartans weren't actually about freedom
The story is told by a spartan. It's a propaganda tale. It's mythical and over the top, and there're goblin and ninjas. It's meant to be a fantasy, not an actual historical movie.

Then again, I'm a fan of Frank Miller, and everything Snyder added that wasn't in Miller's book was shit.

Anonymous

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Anonymous Wed 22 Nov 2017 09:03:40 No.96974310 Report

Quoted By: >>96974383 >>96974515

>>96974236
>That in that moment he couldn't rise above and couldn't become the man who could do the impossible, and that from now on he will.
Fucking why though? How does that make sense? If anything he should regret not killing Zod earlier, because it's ultimately what saved the day.
What negative consequences are there to killing Zod? And don't give me "muh last Kryptonians" because that sure as fuck wouldn't apply to whoever Supes could kill next.
Why would he regret his gesture except because of the very thing you were saying was too fucking simple earlier (implying the necksnapping served as a better justification) "good people don't want to kill".

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 22 Nov 2017 09:04:44 No.96974326 Report

Quoted By: >>96974383 >>96974390

>>96974182
The Knightmare sequence was showing how Bruce justifies his actions, THIS is what could happen if I don't act, and also was supposed to tie in to Justice League part 1 & 2 before WB scrapped that for a stand alone JL movie, thats what the whole scene with Futre Flash was

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 22 Nov 2017 09:05:40 No.96974340 Report

Quoted By:

>>96974165
I'm not sure why he was even in the movie. He was easily the worst part of BvS and having him in the after credits generated no hype.

Anonymous

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Anonymous Wed 22 Nov 2017 09:06:04 No.96974352 Report

Quoted By: >>96974464 >>96974474

So Zach sufferes from the same fate as Tim Burton.

Let me illustrate
Zach Snyders breakout hit was 300. Which was known for its green screen stages, and slow-mo aciton scenes.
In fact 300 was such a hit that after the matrix pretty much established the current vocabulary for all action sequences for the new millenium.

Tim Burton's break out hit, was either Beetlegeuse or it was Edward Sissorhands.
He pretty much established the vocularbly for the "goth" character that is also a relable protagonist. Really set forth the "Creepy,not scary" aesthetic.

So both these film makers are good. They were recognized for their talents, praised when their movies came out. However once Willy Wonka came out, and the Alice in Wonderland came out. We started to notice that Tim Burton might be just a one trick pony, or else he ended up painting himself into a corner where he is more known for his overly produced style.
So instead of putting Tim Burton on a project becuase you think he is a good director, and will turn out a quality project, you hire Tim Burton to direct your project becuase you want it to look like a Tim Burton film.

So now Zach Snyder, was praised and lauded for 300 hundred. Then Sucker Punch cameout, and Watchmen, and Superman. And we started to see and say the same things about Zach that we do about Tim.

If you want me to put it all out for you. The problem with Zach Snyder is that --for whatever reason, maybe the industry is forcing zach synder to stay within his own limits, to make "safe" blockbusters, or Zach just got lazy in his art once he got his recognition--his style has become too safe, and predictable, and isn't very novel at all.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 22 Nov 2017 09:06:25 No.96974362 Report

Quoted By: >>96974407

>>96974265
You know it always struck me as odd that Suckerpunch has no cult following I wonder if it was the visuals or rape, or just the year that turned people off because like when you get down to it it's basically anti-patriarchy.

Like if Zach made it today would there be giant debates about "Men can't handle women leads"

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 22 Nov 2017 09:08:00 No.96974383 Report

Quoted By:

>>96974310

>And don't give me "muh last Kryptonians" because that sure as fuck wouldn't apply to whoever Supes could kill next.

That explanation also rings hollow in light of the fact that Superman destroyed even the CHANCE of the other Kryptonians to come back during that fight with Zod.

>>96974326

Two things:

1.) Nothing else in the film connects to the Knightmare either thematically or narratively. The Knightmare is a stand-alone sequence with no bearing on the outcome of the plot.
2.) Even if - IF - it was meant to be a tie-in with future movies, why did it need to come in during the middle of the movie? It's almost (but not quite) as bad as the big title confrontation being teased, then held up for five minutes while Wonder Woman watches the teasers for Cyborg, Flash, and Underwater Roman Reigns.

Anonymous

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Anonymous Wed 22 Nov 2017 09:08:15 No.96974390 Report

Quoted By: >>96974435 >>96974437

>>96974326
>The Knightmare sequence was showing how Bruce justifies his actions, THIS is what could happen if I don't act,
So basically the premise is "Batman is a lunatic who makes decisions to kill otherwise helpful people doing the exact same job he is, based on fever dreams about Bug Men and Nazis."

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 22 Nov 2017 09:09:09 No.96974407 Report

Quoted By: >>96974451

>>96974362

It's probably because the film sucked, but not enough to be "So Bad It's Good". Bad movies get mocked, good movies get remembered, but mediocre movies fucking disappear.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 22 Nov 2017 09:10:56 No.96974435 Report

Quoted By:

>>96974390

And as I keep saying, the Knightmare could be taken out of the film without affecting the film's narrative or characterization AT ALL. When a sequence can be taken out of a film with no negative effects on that film, that sequence IS a negative effect.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 22 Nov 2017 09:10:58 No.96974437 Report

Quoted By: >>96974488 >>96974584

>>96974390
Not a lunatic, just a very broken, scared man who is desperate

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 22 Nov 2017 09:11:43 No.96974451 Report

Quoted By: >>96974468 >>96974548

>>96974407
Charmingly bad movies get mocked or get cult followings; charmless mean-spirited shit just gets forgotten.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 22 Nov 2017 09:12:03 No.96974457 Report

Quoted By: >>96974566 >>96976124

>>96974182
>Yes, and this matters for all of a few minutes. The film never follows through with this as a major dramatic arc with a clear narrative throughline, even though it would have been relatively easy to do even without contriving the African massacre. Like, hi, a fucking 9/11 happened in Metropolis and no one seems to care about that?

That's wrong, though. Superman being controversial was major plotpoint throughout the movie and Lex getting the public riled up against him was a major part of his character arc. The Africa stuff. The senate hearing. The little media clips we see throughout the movie discussing him. The protestors in front of the senate hearing. Wallace defiling the statue. "Love affair ended with man in the sky". Lex selling politicians on kryptonite weaponry by talking about "planetary security". Senator Finch trying to treat Superman fairly and respnsibly in an increasingly polarized society. And it ends with Superman sacrificing himself for the good of manking, becoming the hero to them he always deserved to be.

>"You never used guns before now." One line. ONE. Even delivered offhand, it would have done a lot.

I agree. That would have probably helped it.

> You talk about the "creeping fascism", but that wasn't even a major plot point, much less a theme that received any significant, in-depth exploration in the rest of the film.

Yeah, no, I disagree with that, in fact I'd argue it's one of its most important themes. Hell, the climax of the movie is an evil capitalist creating an uncontrollable monster to kill an immigrant. You have Bruce spouting rightist platitudes about Superman "bringing his war here!" after an event that is meant to remind us of 9/11. You have protestors holding up "Superman = Illegal Alien" signs, looking like they'd be right at home at a Trump rally or a Pegida protest. You have politicians literally eating from the hands of an obviously insane xenophobic oligarch.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 22 Nov 2017 09:12:29 No.96974464 Report

Quoted By: >>96974533

>>96974352
Zach quit pushing the horizons of his artistic vision.
Other than the slo-mo action scenes he hasn't added anything else stylistically to the medium.

Ever since 300 he's been phoning all his shit in.
Its only until Man of Steel that we really started to notice.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 22 Nov 2017 09:12:40 No.96974468 Report

Quoted By:

>>96974451
Not if it's also adapting a beloved IP.
Then it gets actively hated forever.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 22 Nov 2017 09:12:54 No.96974474 Report

Quoted By: >>96974737 >>96981204

>>96974352
Critical response to 300 was nothing like Beetlejuice or Edward Scissorhands, or the Matrix for that matter. It was seen as a dumb action movie.
>maybe the industry is forcing zach synder to stay within his own limits
And maybe space-lizards are forcing Tim Burton to put white makeup on everyone, sure.
Snyder is more like Michael Bay than Tim Burton.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 22 Nov 2017 09:14:01 No.96974488 Report

Quoted By:

>>96974437
This is a rather pathetic characterization for Bruce Wayne in his mid-forties.

The movies have already stripped his creative genius, detective skills and strategic mind.
Now we have to make him weak willed and broken? It's as bad as Nolan's Quit-Man.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 22 Nov 2017 09:15:35 No.96974515 Report

Quoted By: >>96974597 >>96974627

>>96974310
It's a loss of moral purity. At that point without referencing other Superman media you can't make a reasonable case that Superman wouldn't have lets say a soldiers attitude towards killing, or even Captain America or Logan's stance if you wanna go comics, ie I avoid it but will if absolutely necessary. This act makes him feel "No I'll never kill no matter what" hell they could hypothetically have tied it into BvS with Superman purposely finding an abandonded place thinking because now to make sure another situation like that never happens again he's more alert on his game more prepared.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 22 Nov 2017 09:16:25 No.96974533 Report

Quoted By:

>>96974464
>Other than the slo-mo action scenes he hasn't added anything else stylistically to the medium.
He didn't create those in the first place, just overused them so much that everyone considers it his style.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 22 Nov 2017 09:17:07 No.96974548 Report

Quoted By:

>>96974451
I don't think suckerpunch was mean-spirited I mean her friend got away in the end. I think or was that a dream too.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 22 Nov 2017 09:18:05 No.96974566 Report

Quoted By: >>96974874

>>96974457

>The Africa stuff.

Tell me this: Given that MoS ended with the DC equivalent of 9/11, why was the African massacre necessary for any reason other than to give Lois something to do? Wouldn't, you know, the DC equivalent of 9/11 be a MUCH better reason to hold fucking Congressional hearings involving Superman?

>it ends with Superman sacrificing himself for the good of mankind

Except, like Superman killing Zod at the end of MoS, Superman dying at the hands of Doomsday was contrived as a way of creating what was supposed to be a hugely emotional moment but was instead a moment that landed like a fish in a mud puddle.

>the climax of the movie is an evil capitalist creating an uncontrollable monster to kill an immigrant

And if the movie had done anything else to follow your interpretation, that might mean something.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 22 Nov 2017 09:18:44 No.96974584 Report

Quoted By: >>96974638

>>96974437
>Not a lunatic, just a very broken, scared man who is desperate
A desperate, scared man might start cobbling together failsafe plans, or start trying to alert people to the threat, or go off and hide.

A lunatic decides to murder someone because he's irrationally frightened.

Anonymous

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Anonymous Wed 22 Nov 2017 09:18:49 No.96974586 Report

Quoted By:

>>96973504
>Wait so he was always shit?
Duh.

Do you have any idea how much of a hack someone has to be to basically do a 1:1 adaptation of Watchmen and miss the point behind almost everything?

It's mindblowing how much of /co/ and /tv/ are only now starting to realize what a joke of a director he is.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 22 Nov 2017 09:19:33 No.96974597 Report

Quoted By: >>96974637 >>96974650

>>96974515

>It's a loss of moral purity.

What moral? We never see Superman taught not to kill people, even in defense of others. Pa Kent all but said that Clark should have let the kids on that bus die to protect "the big secret". If anything, Pa Kent was JUSTIFYING murder.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 22 Nov 2017 09:20:53 No.96974619 Report

Quoted By: >>96974822

>>96973363
>It never gets into why Supes feels so shitty about killing Zod.

Because he begs Zod not to force him to kill him. Superman isn't a murderer, he wants to save people.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 22 Nov 2017 09:21:19 No.96974627 Report

Quoted By: >>96974765

>>96974515
>This act makes him feel "No I'll never kill no matter what"
WHY?
If you stopped a guy from killing billions of people by killing him, would you go "killing is never worth it" right after? It makes no fucking sense to anyone with a brain.
I can accept a boyscout with idealistic moral values, I can't accept a boyscout who got idealistic moral values by succesfuly saving the world as an edgelord.

Anonymous

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Anonymous Wed 22 Nov 2017 09:21:52 No.96974637 Report

Quoted By: >>96974727

>>96974597
I always imagined that the State University metallurgist he sent the ship piece to showed up a day later at his farm, full of excitement.

Jonathan takes him back to the barn, murders him with an axe, and buries him out in the cornfield.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 22 Nov 2017 09:21:53 No.96974638 Report

Quoted By: >>96974690

>>96974584
In that case, Batmans already a fucking lunatic, literally dressing up as a bat and literally fighting crime despite being insanely wealthy and having the power to make actual change in his city

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 22 Nov 2017 09:22:43 No.96974650 Report

Quoted By: >>96974709 >>96974727

>>96974597
His own internal compass. Can he stay as a hero while killing if need be, and to Clark it seems the answer is no.

Anonymous

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Anonymous Wed 22 Nov 2017 09:24:48 No.96974690 Report

Quoted By: >>96974751

>>96974638
Putting on a cape and trying to save lives just makes you an eccentric.
Attempting to murder other people with the same idea because they might "decide to get you" is crazy-town. Or it makes you a Super-villain.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 22 Nov 2017 09:25:46 No.96974709 Report

Quoted By: >>96974813

>>96974650
>to Clark it seems the answer is no.
What?
He kills the villain in both of the fucking movies, in the second movie it's treated as the most heroic act ever, inspiring old sociopathic Batman to hero again.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 22 Nov 2017 09:26:47 No.96974727 Report

Quoted By:

>>96974637

Yeah, that right there is a gigantic plot hole that all but destroys the film. A farmer from Kansas brings a piece of shaped metal to a professional metallurgist who declares that he cannot even identify what kind of metal it is, and NOTHING COMES OF THAT? Like, did the metallurgist not contact ANYONE about the metal he saw that did not match ANYTHING found on Earth? JUST AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAGH GREAT MY EYE IS BLEEDING AGAIN

>>96974650

Superman trashed an asshole's big rig for no reason other than petty spite. His father told him that maybe he should have let a busload of kids die. WHAT FUCKING INTERNAL COMPASS.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 22 Nov 2017 09:27:12 No.96974737 Report

Quoted By: >>96974769 >>96974823

>>96974474
Michael Bay has no tone, and uniform cinematogprahy.

Burton and Snyder both have a tone.
Burton in his use of bright colors contrasted with the dark filters he shoots in.

Snyder has tone in that he shoots in the same filters as nolan anf Fincher, except he goes for the slo-mo greenscreen alot more than the others.

Zach wishes he could be Michael Bay but he hasn't snorted enough cocaine yet to have his own ego swallow itself.

Anonymous

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Anonymous Wed 22 Nov 2017 09:27:56 No.96974751 Report

Quoted By:

>>96974690
its almost like Bats IS a super-villain in BvS

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 22 Nov 2017 09:29:20 No.96974765 Report

Quoted By: >>96974835

>>96974627
Because it's a personal matter not about results. You can say it's hypocritical but think of Secret Invasion of Cap, Logan or Fury had killed the Queen there'd be much cheering and applauding and everyone would acknowledge that it was good, or when Thor "killed" Sentry (or Sentry committed "suicide" by Thor) no one came would come up and say "Wow dude we what a dick you could have done this another way" it's yeah good job, but I personally will still not kill.
Like no one gives Cap shit about killing people, and even Peter doesn't get angry at Logan for killing dudes.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 22 Nov 2017 09:29:26 No.96974769 Report

Quoted By: >>96974823 >>96975258

>>96974737
>Michael Bay has no tone, and uniform cinematogprahy.
You don't know what you're taking about. Cinematography doesn't stop at color and contrast.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 22 Nov 2017 09:29:34 No.96974772 Report

Quoted By:

>>96973637
>Which still boils down to the fact that Superman's mother just happens to have the same name as Batman's.

For almost eight decades.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 22 Nov 2017 09:31:50 No.96974796 Report

Quoted By: >>96974861

>>96973820

That's not what happens. That is a dumb meme. He's drifting around, trying to figure out where he came from and why until he finally finds the Kryptonian ship.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 22 Nov 2017 09:33:00 No.96974813 Report

Quoted By: >>96974895

>>96974709
BvS failing to follow up on the theme is it's own thing and I'm not defending it's inability to follow up. Him killing the villain in the first one is the point I'm trying to make.

Can I be hero while killing people?
Welp now I tried it and my answer is no.

Also Batman went heroic again thanks to the Martha thing come on man that's barely subtext.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 22 Nov 2017 09:34:00 No.96974822 Report

Quoted By: >>96974866

>>96974619
He was happy destroying Krypton's last and only chance for survival with the birthing pods, for no goddamn reason, mind you.

All he knows about Zod is that he's a genocidal madman, he killed his dad and tried to kill him and everyone he loves. There's absolutely no reason why Superman shouldn't be happy to murder his ass.

Fucking Batman Begins dedicated half of its 1st act to showing how Batman grows to abhor killing (with mixed results, granted). Man of Steel just assumes this shit despite writing a Superman who should have virtually zero reason to abide by it.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 22 Nov 2017 09:34:04 No.96974823 Report

Quoted By: >>96975258

>>96974737
This>>96974769 Michael uses the same type of shot in every film for pretty much every scene.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 22 Nov 2017 09:34:36 No.96974835 Report

Quoted By: >>96974910

>>96974765
Why the fuck are you talking about different stories now.
Why, in the context of MoS, does it make sense, be it reason or emotion, for Superman to feel bad about killing Zod?
>Because it's a personal matter
That's just saying "he's a good guy so of course he doesn't want to kill", which I thought we established wasn't a good enough reason and needed a necksnapping to guilt him into it or whatever fuck you.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 22 Nov 2017 09:36:58 No.96974861 Report

Quoted By: >>96974881 >>96974992

>>96974796
FOR 15 FUCKING YEARS
THAT'S ALL HE FUCKING DOES FOR 15 YEARS

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 22 Nov 2017 09:37:06 No.96974866 Report

Quoted By:

>>96974822

>Man of Steel just assumes this shit

The grand irony of both MoS and BvS is that they want you to "forget everything you know" about Superman and Batman while also using that same level of knowledge as a crutch for their characterizations.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 22 Nov 2017 09:37:47 No.96974874 Report

Quoted By: >>96975057

>>96974566
>Tell me this: Given that MoS ended with the DC equivalent of 9/11, why was the African massacre necessary for any reason other than to give Lois something to do?

Good question. Well, it adds an international angle to it, shows Lex' involvement and it's something that can actually be blamed on Superman more than Zod's invasion that was really more about him reacting to an attack.

>>96974566

>Except, like Superman killing Zod at the end of MoS, Superman dying at the hands of Doomsday was contrived as a way of creating what was supposed to be a hugely emotional moment but was instead a moment that landed like a fish in a mud puddle.

It worked for me. Maybe not his death scene itself but I found the mourning montage afterwards and the funeral sequence very emotionally reasonant. It had a lot of of nice little details, like one of the protestors from the senate hearing and a girl protesting in favour of him standing together. Or everything back at Clarks home.

>And if the movie had done anything else to follow your interpretation, that might mean something.

Oh, come on, it did and I told you how.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 22 Nov 2017 09:37:51 No.96974877 Report

Quoted By:

>>96973970
>I still can't believe that Snyder made the Superman Trials about a TOTALLY UNRELATED INCIDENT TO THE ZOD INVASION

That was the basis for Batman's motivation. Why would the government attack Superman using Zod, since Superman is the one who helps to save everyone from an alien invasion?

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 22 Nov 2017 09:38:08 No.96974881 Report

Quoted By: >>96974992

>>96974861

FUCK, HE HAS A FUCKING SPACESHIP IN HIS BARN, WHY ISN'T HE DOING SOMETHING WITH THAT

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 22 Nov 2017 09:38:58 No.96974895 Report

Quoted By:

>>96974813
>Can I be hero while killing people?
>Welp now I tried it and my answer is no.
That doesn't make any sense in the context of the movie, where literally, literally, literally the only way he could be a hero (aka save the day) was to kill Zod.
The movie defeats its own fucking point by trying to have its cake and eat it too.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 22 Nov 2017 09:40:04 No.96974910 Report

Quoted By: >>96974975

>>96974835
Here I'll break it down for you and explain why I bring up other heroes.

>Other heroes kill and are still treated as good guys
>Superman in the DCEU cannot be assumed to have the same total no kill policy that even applies to inhuman Darkseid that he has in the comics
>This move asks hey if Superman was an I kill people type of dude could he still be the hero he wants to be
>The movie and Clark answer nope after testing it out

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 22 Nov 2017 09:45:11 No.96974975 Report

Quoted By:

>>96974910
>The movie and Clark answer nope after testing it out
Except it doesn't. Murder saved the day.
The movie failed at teaching him that killing is wrong beyond "it feels bad".

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 22 Nov 2017 09:46:59 No.96974992 Report

Quoted By: >>96975067 >>96975069

>>96974861
>WHY DOESN'T HE JUST FIND THE ANSWER IMMEDIATELY?!!?!

Donner's Superman literally spends ages just sitting on his ass, listening Marlon Brando preach him about ethics in the Arctic. Meanwhile MoS Clark drifts around SAVING PEOPLE and having to constantly move on due to his powers being exposed in heroics.

Putting on a costume isn't something normal people just decide to do since it's an inherently goofy notion. He has to reach into the conclusion through the journey he takes in MoS, by finding his origins, putting on his family crest and fighting publicly against aliens which ends up becoming a convenient way to keep helping people.

>>96974881

Like what, "BEEP-BOOP tell me everything I need to know, oh plot device?" It's a tiny ship designed only to send him to safety. It has no databases, etc. and who knows how much it was damaged when it crashed. Clark's dad is a farmer and mom works at a bar, where the fuck would he even have the knowledge to try fix the ship? Almost every comic incarnation has him not find out about Krypton from his ship. Even Byrne's reboot it took until Clark was already Superman to find out about Krypton largely by accident.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 22 Nov 2017 09:52:58 No.96975057 Report

Quoted By:

>>96974874

>it adds an international angle to it

So what?

>shows Lex' involvement

And Lex couldn't have found a way to get involved with or sabotage the Metropolis 9/11 investigations...how, exactly? I mean, he got Zod's body.

>it's something that can actually be blamed on Superman more than Zod's invasion

Given how Zod's invasion began, in all practical terms, with Zod calling out Superman...yeah, no, the misconception could and would still be there for a lot of people.

>It worked for me.

How nice for you.

>it did and I told you how

Except, no, it didn't. The film never made a huge deal about Lex being a capitalist or Superman being an immigrant/literal "illegal alien". It never tried to pass itself off as some sort of treatise on immigration or capitalism. If that political theme exists in the film, it is in half-assed form that - again - never has any real bearing on the narrative because Lex Zuckerberg's motivations for having Batman fight Superman - then releasing Doomsday to kill them all - fall into the "Monday Morning Question" side of things, with the "Monday Morning Question" being: "On Monday morning, then what?" Okay, Lex sets loose Doomsday to destroy Superman. Assuming Doomsday succeeds without dying at the hands of the Man of Steel, Lex has now unleashed a creature that absolutely cannot be stopped by anything on Earth. At the bare minimum, Doomsday goes on to destroy Metropolis, Gotham City, or both. On Monday morning, when Lex is faced with the destruction of possible two major cities and the possibility that he will be discovered as the person who set into motion the destruction of those cities, then what?

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 22 Nov 2017 09:53:44 No.96975067 Report

Quoted By: >>96975436

>>96974992
>>WHY DOESN'T HE JUST FIND THE ANSWER IMMEDIATELY?!!?!
What? No. Just have him do some other shit, why the fuck would Superman just drift around for 15 years like he's Bill Bixby?
He doesn't meet anyone of note or learn anything that shapes his personality, during some of the most formative years of his life. And we all know it's not 15 years because it makes narrative sense, it's 15 years so that he's fucking 33 when he returns.
>but Donner
Who gives a flying fuck, there's plenty I don't like in them too.
>He has to reach into the conclusion through the journey he takes in MoS
You mean he has to be handed his character development by Space Dad after learning fuck-all during his journey.

The guy has fuck-all for agency, hell i'm I remembering wrong or does he have to be told to go look for his origin by his mom too?

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 22 Nov 2017 09:54:00 No.96975069 Report

Quoted By: >>96975406

>>96974992

>Like what, "BEEP-BOOP tell me everything I need to know, oh plot device?"

Worked for him in the massive Kryptonian ship.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 22 Nov 2017 09:54:40 No.96975081 Report

Quoted By: >>96975517

>>96969359
I agree with your main point, but they did use Unworthy Thor as their first movie.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 22 Nov 2017 09:57:04 No.96975104 Report

Quoted By:

>>96973504
He was placed in the director's seat because non-Batman DC movies were in a shitty situation at the time, and out of those movies that were released in the 5 years before Man of Steel was made (The Losers, Green Lantern, Jonah Hex, Watchmen), the latter was the only one that had achieved some sparing amount of praise compared to the universal scorn of GL and Jonah and mediocrity of The Losers.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 22 Nov 2017 09:57:58 No.96975113 Report

Quoted By: >>96975191

>>96968924
>Why are people so boring? Why does everyone want everything to be the same shit, time and time again?
Isn't the problem literally that people DON'T want the same shit again and again? They already saw NolanBats and Watchmen and the grimderp capeshit is old news.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 22 Nov 2017 10:03:27 No.96975169 Report

Quoted By:

At least sucker punch was good.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 22 Nov 2017 10:05:32 No.96975191 Report

Quoted By:

>>96975113

>Isn't the problem literally that people DON'T want the same shit again and again?

It's a bit of both, really. We don't mind seeing a story told again and again so long as the telling of said story is good and finds a way to set itself apart from past tellings of that story. People will flock to a Batman movie, for example, if the story is good and it doesn't feel like a retread of past Batman movies/stories. Shit, Marvel recycled the same basic narrative structure of Iron Man 1 at least twice (as well as the generalized Tony Stark archetype for at least "Doctor Strange"), and people still go to Marvel movies.

On the flip side of this, we have that "Independence Day" sequel. Similar story, similar beats, better CGI, shoulda been a barnburner, amirite? Yeah, no, the story sucked ass. The original "Independence Day" could be forgiven for having a bland story because it made up for that in spectacle and likeable characters. ("HELLO, BOYS - I'M BAAAAAAAAAAACK!") The sequel needed to be much better than the original in the plot department to justify giving us an ID4-flavored retread of the same kinds of visuals we've seen in every other blockbuster over the past decade - and in that aspect, it failed.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 22 Nov 2017 10:06:01 No.96975196 Report

Quoted By: >>96975218 >>96976115 >>96976470 >>96982937

>>96967855
>>96967902
>>96967957
I feel Snyder is really misunderstood within the critics while his audience completely gets his deal. But his work in the DCEU has been really bad so far. It's crazy upsetting.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 22 Nov 2017 10:06:21 No.96975199 Report

Quoted By: >>96975216

>>96969359
>300 and Watchmen were liked by fans because they didn't stray too far from the already gritty deconstructions of their sources
But fans hated watchmen and it strayed far in oxymadias characterisation and the ending.
Also what's the source of 300? (Beyond it's historical pnes of course)

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 22 Nov 2017 10:07:30 No.96975216 Report

Quoted By:

>>96975199
300 was a Frank Miller comic

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 22 Nov 2017 10:07:51 No.96975218 Report

Quoted By: >>96975260

>>96975196

>I feel Snyder is really misunderstood within the critics while his audience completely gets his deal.

I think it's a bit of the reverse: Critics understand exactly what Snyder's deal is because they watch shitloads of movies every year, whereas audiences who think they "get" Snyder misunderstand him because they don't watch the same volume of movies. (Well, that, or they want to be contrarian assholes.)

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 22 Nov 2017 10:07:59 No.96975219 Report

Quoted By: >>96975254

>>96973229
>that includes Comedian raping Silk Spectre.
You know it's funny. That film fucked up the sex scene massivly but it did the rape scene perfectly.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 22 Nov 2017 10:09:47 No.96975231 Report

Quoted By:

>>96973346
>Byrne had scientists forcibly doing tests on pregnant 12 yr old girls to make supermen, let WB try to sell that.
Honestly I kind of hope they do. It was one if the writers best stories.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 22 Nov 2017 10:12:54 No.96975254 Report

Quoted By:

>>96975219

Says a lot about Snyder.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 22 Nov 2017 10:13:13 No.96975258 Report

Quoted By: >>96975293

>>96974769
>>96974823
the point is that michael bay doesn't use washed out filters that could only appeal to the eyes of some edgy 14 year old or someone who has a longstanding battle with depression.

Michael Bay's style is such that you can apply it to any movie or genre and you will still get a movie that appeals to a wide audience. Families, Teens, lonely men in their 30's. You also probably wouldn't know it was him directing the movie.
and before you talk about putting explosions in a romance, you can fuck off that is only one part of Michael Bays style.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2THVvshvq0Q

Snyder on the other hand , You take his style and apply it to any movie or genre and its most likely going to only appeal to edgelords, and the chronically depressed. And you can probably tell who directed it.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 22 Nov 2017 10:13:26 No.96975260 Report

Quoted By: >>96975316 >>96975324 >>96975373

>>96975218
I disagree. I think critics don't value aesthetics enough. Recent Snyder movies have been a mess in terms of pacing and character motivations, but his old movies used to be shallow for the sake of entertainment, not drama. These movies built hype and gave emotional stakes that you don't see anymore in his DCEU movies because he gets it wrong.
It's like how hollywood critics wouldn't get the appeal of anime, which is 80% emotion over reason, but would give Dr Fucking Strange a good rating even though it's the most mediocre MCU film to date because it's well structured even though it does everything it can to ruin its own pathos.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 22 Nov 2017 10:18:54 No.96975293 Report

Quoted By:

>>96975258
>You also probably wouldn't know it was him directing the movie.
Anon, I've watched that video before, it makes a pretty clear point that Bay's style is identifiable.

Not sure about "any genre" as he's only ever directed action movies and music videos.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 22 Nov 2017 10:21:06 No.96975316 Report

Quoted By: >>96975332 >>96975347

>>96975260

>I think critics don't value aesthetics enough.

Valuing aesthetics is all well and good, but they're ultimately meaningless if they're used to mask either a shitty story or a lack of one. We go to films to be entertained, yes, but we also go to be told a story. If the story sucks, no amount of pretty images is going to change that.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 22 Nov 2017 10:22:09 No.96975324 Report

Quoted By: >>96975347

>>96975260
I feel like Snyder's fan overrate his aesthetic proficiency. The guy likes wide-shots and contre-jour, whoopdie-doo, this is filmmaking not photography.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 22 Nov 2017 10:22:45 No.96975332 Report

Quoted By: >>96975360 >>96975405

>>96975316
I have to be THAT faggot but the best way I can explain my point is with this video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QR7yWdimmC4

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 22 Nov 2017 10:24:08 No.96975347 Report

Quoted By: >>96975374

>>96975324
>>96975316
spoken like a non-artist

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 22 Nov 2017 10:25:45 No.96975360 Report

Quoted By: >>96975394

>>96975332
Not the guy you're answering to and haven't watched the video yet, but overfascination with aesthetics can ruin your narrative, so counter video point https://youtu.be/38Cy_Qlh7VM

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 22 Nov 2017 10:27:09 No.96975373 Report

Quoted By:

>>96975260

>I think critics don't value aesthetics enough

Snyder isn't Michael Mann or Tony Scott, where the aesthetics are part of the substance of the movie. Snyder is all visuals with no follow-through, empty references to better movies.

If you want to make an A E S T H E T I C S movie it needs to do something interesting with its visuals.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 22 Nov 2017 10:27:20 No.96975374 Report

Quoted By: >>96975403

>>96975347
>self-indulging composition
>high contrast
>WOW SUCH ARTISTRY!

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 22 Nov 2017 10:29:50 No.96975394 Report

Quoted By:

>>96975360
Please don't believe I disregard narrative. But I think aesthetics really get overlooked when it comes to narrative intent. The problem with recent Snyder movies is how the aesthetics and the narrative don't go together now, while in his past movies did. A dissonance.
That's why 300 works perfectly while MoS and BvS aren't.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 22 Nov 2017 10:31:23 No.96975403 Report

Quoted By: >>96975471

>>96975374
Spoken like a non-artist again, taking the easiest parts without minding the details. Like a person who faps to shadman.

What other movies look like Snyder's?
And don't say Bay because they don't

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 22 Nov 2017 10:31:30 No.96975405 Report

Quoted By:

>>96975332

Aesthetic is part of a story. I didn't say otherwise. But if aesthetic is used to mask either a shitty story or a lack of a story, aesthetic becomes meaningless.

I'll give you the best example I can manage off the top of my head:

http://youtube.com/watch?v=fYkOTO-283g

Look at that shit. Looks cool, right? A lightsaber battle between a Sith and a Jedi with some nifty choreography - who could hate that shit, right? Well...yeah, here's the thing: That fan film has nothing to say. It doesn't offer any interpretation of Kylo Ren, it doesn't give the Jedi a character, and it doesn't offer any meaningful conflict beyond "good vs evil". The fight is not a conflict, but a means to ending a conflict, and there is no meaningful conflict here. This is what I mean when I talk about aesthetic hiding bad storytelling: Sure, the lightsaber battle looks neat, but if I can't be fucked to care about why it is happening or care about any of the characters involved, how the fuck am I supposed to be entertained?

Aesthetic is good. Aesthetic as a disguise for a shitty or non-existent narrative is not.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 22 Nov 2017 10:31:36 No.96975406 Report

Quoted By: >>96975416

>>96975069

Because it had a sophisticated interface device to access the Key Clark was carrying.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 22 Nov 2017 10:32:49 No.96975416 Report

Quoted By: >>96975443

>>96975406

So what?

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 22 Nov 2017 10:34:43 No.96975432 Report

Quoted By:

300 and Watchmen were amazing stories to begin with. Whenever Snyder has strict story limitations to work within, he makes something pretty damned good. But after Watchmen, all the production companies have been giving him complete creative control and he's like a kid high on sugar in a room full of instruments, he can never just pick one and settle down to making something decent instead he tries them all and makes a bunch of noise.

Some artists just work better when given limitations to contain their creative impulses. I always thought Will Farrel was only funny on Saturday Night Live, and that all his movies have just been him taking the jokes way too far for it to be funny because nobody wants to reign in 'the comedic genius' that they think he is.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 22 Nov 2017 10:35:39 No.96975436 Report

Quoted By: >>96975490

>>96975067
>Just have him do some other shit

He was doing some other shit, like continuously saving people and living his life on the road while seeking answers.

>You mean he has to be handed his character development by Space Dad after learning fuck-all during his journey.

No, he learned what his father wanted from him and where he came from. After that he went back to Ma to figure out what to do with that information and his life, since he finally had answers. Then he ended up fighting Zod, and after it was over, he had decided that he liked being a public superhero since his existence was now public knowledge and he wouldn't have to hide the same way anymore when saving people if he was doing it as "Superman".

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 22 Nov 2017 10:36:42 No.96975443 Report

Quoted By: >>96975451

>>96975416

His small shape ship didn't have that, it was just a fancy looking rocket.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 22 Nov 2017 10:38:14 No.96975451 Report

Quoted By: >>96975459

>>96975443

It had to have some kind of technology that could've given Clark, oh, I don't know, a general idea of where he could find AN ENTIRE OTHER KRYPTONIAN SHIP ON THE SAME PLANET AS HIM.

Anonymous

View Same Google iqdb SauceNAO 1485744195909.jpg, 1MiB, 4000x4127

Anonymous Wed 22 Nov 2017 10:38:17 No.96975452 Report

Quoted By:

>>96974265
I bet the only reason they kept him on MoS was that they were rushing production and had no time to find a replacement.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 22 Nov 2017 10:39:42 No.96975459 Report

Quoted By:

>>96975451

Nope, 'fraid not :)

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 22 Nov 2017 10:40:42 No.96975465 Report

Quoted By:

>>96974265
Seriously, I could not agree with you more
Worse, my sister fucking loves the movie. Not a clue why, all I see when I look at it is some anime fan's wankfest idea to rip off a bunch of other more popular shows/movies and string the scenes together along the backdrop of being in an asylum to excuse how none of it fits together.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 22 Nov 2017 10:41:45 No.96975471 Report

Quoted By: >>96975560

>>96975403
Movies don't because it's a dumb look to give to a movie. Plenty of photographs do.
It's like asking what other movies have scene transition like Ang Lee's Hulk.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 22 Nov 2017 10:45:20 No.96975490 Report

Quoted By: >>96975684 >>96975791

>>96975436
>He was doing some other shit, like continuously saving people and living his life on the road while seeking answers.
And not meeting anyone of note, never having one human moment, just montage-ing his way through 15 years. And you see nothing wrong with that.
>No, he learned what his father wanted from him and where he came from. After that he went back to Ma to figure out what to do with that information and his life, since he finally had answers. Then he ended up fighting Zod, and after it was over, he had decided that he liked being a public superhero since his existence was now public knowledge and he wouldn't have to hide the same way anymore when saving people if he was doing it as "Superman".
So he has no agency, shit just happens to him and people tell him what to do and he rolls with it. Thanks.
And he still learned nothing through his journey.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 22 Nov 2017 10:48:46 No.96975517 Report

Quoted By:

>>96975081
No they didn't. Odin has always sent Thor away to learn lesson humility. They just didn't use Donald Blake as his humbling experience avatar.

Plus, Original Sin didn't happen until 2014, Thor came out in 2011.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 22 Nov 2017 10:55:05 No.96975560 Report

Quoted By:

>>96975471
>Movies don't because it's a dumb look to give to a movie. Plenty of photographs do.
spoken like a non-artist again
bet you like the gray look of marvel movies pre-GotG

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 22 Nov 2017 11:10:07 No.96975684 Report

Quoted By:

>>96975490
>And not meeting anyone of note

He met Lois.

>So he has no agency, shit just happens to him and people tell him what to do and he rolls with it.

He could have called it quits and hidden again any time he wished, instead he embraced his new role and ultimatelly created a steady life for himself with Lois in Metropolis, because it allowed him to be himself without any risk anymore. He does it all because he chooses to do so.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 22 Nov 2017 11:12:10 No.96975699 Report

Quoted By:

>>96967771
People didn't know any better. Watchman sucked too.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 22 Nov 2017 11:20:40 No.96975791 Report

Quoted By:

>>96975490
Look, Jesus didn't start his public ministry until he was 30
Clark needed the same amount of time to wait for the Christ analogy to work (in Zack's mind)

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 22 Nov 2017 11:57:05 No.96976115 Report

Quoted By:

>>96975196
>A simple-minded but visually exciting experience
Seems to suit Snyder perfectly.
You had really bad pace and lack of direction and you get modern Snyder.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 22 Nov 2017 11:58:18 No.96976124 Report

Quoted By: >>96976157 >>96976168

>>96974457
>And it ends with Superman sacrificing himself for the good of manking, becoming the hero to them he always deserved to be.
And not a single person in the audience gives a single shit

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 22 Nov 2017 11:59:31 No.96976136 Report

Quoted By:

>>96967957
I never undertood why critics like this movie so much. The part in the supermarket is ok but the intro and final battle/ending are ludicrous, z list tier with higher budget.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 22 Nov 2017 12:01:28 No.96976157 Report

Quoted By: >>96976172

>>96976124

I cared.

Anonymous

View Same Google iqdb SauceNAO 1456456990707.jpg, 20KiB, 390x297

Anonymous Wed 22 Nov 2017 12:03:08 No.96976168 Report

Quoted By: >>96976172

>>96976124
speak for yourself

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 22 Nov 2017 12:03:34 No.96976172 Report

Quoted By: >>96976179

>>96976157
>>96976168
Great for you guys, not so much for the general public actually watching this.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 22 Nov 2017 12:04:29 No.96976179 Report

Quoted By:

>>96976172

Oh, so you're their official representative in this matter?

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 22 Nov 2017 12:25:17 No.96976349 Report

Quoted By:

>>96967771
Snyder likely only reads critically acclaimed "Graphic Novels" so he thinks comics are only dark deconstructions. So he tries to turn all the characters on their head thinking he's clever, as if that will work to kickstart a franchise. He even tried to pull this shit with WW "losing her faith in humanity" that the studio had to retcon.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 22 Nov 2017 12:30:15 No.96976402 Report

Quoted By:

>>96973445
>Even better - the Greeks LOST that war,
That's not true at all brah. The Greeks won, and the Spartans were half the force at Plataea which crushed the Persian army.

I mean I hate all the Spartan dicksucking, but credit where it's due.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 22 Nov 2017 12:31:37 No.96976415 Report

Quoted By:

>>96967771
Watchmen and 300 had great screenplays. Man of Steel, BvS and Justice League had terrible screenplays with zero understanding of how to do shared cinematic universe.

It wasn't that much fault of Snyder as people say.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 22 Nov 2017 12:36:10 No.96976447 Report

Quoted By: >>96976639 >>96976772

>>96967902
>>96973504
Watchmen is a good movie, but you HAVE to be knowledgable about comicbook and superhero tropes it is subverting. 2009 was too early to release it.

I would GUARANTEE that this movie would be reviewed much better in age of endless MCU movies with happy-go-lucky atmosphere and stupid villains that want to take over the world. Nowadays, Watchmen would be seen as a breath of fresh air, just like the graphic novel was in the 80's.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 22 Nov 2017 12:38:32 No.96976470 Report

Quoted By:

>>96975196
No, he's just a very shallow director with the same few tricks, over and over.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 22 Nov 2017 12:56:57 No.96976639 Report

Quoted By: >>96977432

>>96976447
>I would GUARANTEE that this movie would be reviewed much better in age of endless MCU movies with happy-go-lucky atmosphere and stupid villains that want to take over the world. Nowadays, Watchmen would be seen as a breath of fresh air, just like the graphic novel was in the 80's.

Or it would be rejected, just like Batman v Superman for mostly the same reasons.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 22 Nov 2017 13:08:36 No.96976772 Report

Quoted By: >>96976832 >>96982915

>>96976447
>Watchmen is a good movie, but you HAVE to be knowledgable about comicbook and superhero tropes it is subverting
But the movie want subverting those tropes. It was a good recreation of the comic without actually knowing why the comic was good

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 22 Nov 2017 13:10:00 No.96976798 Report

Quoted By:

>>96969359
I always assumed snyder was btfo after reading kingdom come, and all his movies has the same concepts.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 22 Nov 2017 13:11:11 No.96976812 Report

Quoted By:

>>96974114
Movie had already gone off rails long before the neck snapping when it turned into hardcore destruction porn rather than a character driven movie.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 22 Nov 2017 13:12:55 No.96976832 Report

Quoted By: >>96979646

>>96976772

This,

300 and Watchmen we're mostly using the comics as storyboard, when Snyder went off with his own ideas it brought the production down.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 22 Nov 2017 14:10:36 No.96977432 Report

Quoted By:

>>96976639
>Or it would be rejected, just like Batman v Superman for mostly the same reasons.
You're an idiot. BvS is a terrible, convoluted mess. There is no themes, no characterization, and plot is all over the place.

There is so much stupid stuff in it. The whole African setup thing is pointless, senate hearing is pointless, jar of Luthor's piss is ridiculous, Luthor's plan relies on HOPING Batman will steal Kryptonite from him;
both Lois Lane and Wonder Woman have no purpose in the story, Doomsday was a terrible fit and the story should've ended with heroes fighting either properly resurrected Zod as a real character, or fighting Luthor himself in a Lexoskeleton.

BvS is a terrible disgusting mess and fuck you for trying to bring your stupid 'capekino' meme into this. It's okay if you liked it, special FX and fight scenes were alright and there was some fanservice - but good movie this does not make.

Anonymous

View Same Google iqdb SauceNAO Hack Snyder and DC.png, 523KiB, 840x500

Anonymous Wed 22 Nov 2017 16:41:27 No.96979360 Report

Quoted By: >>96979678

Fucking milenials, no one over 20 think that snyder was ever a good director, Dawn of the Dead, 300 and watchmen were all higlhy bashed by critics and very divisive by audience, search for forums and critcs reviews back on 2004 about dawn of the dead and you will see how Snyder was already estabilished as an awful director by movie fans.

He's a bad director and WB was retarded for giving him a universe at the time worth dozens of billions(now is worth 0 dollars since it can't even bring the investment back finacially), they wanted to please his wife by pushing his trash into the audience because they thought a superman or batman movie could never flop no matter how bad, now they're paying the fucking price, DCEU movies image is fucked forever and will never make money like MCU, B lister heroes like Plastic man and Cyborg will never make profit now unlike on Marvel because people watch Ant man/Back Panther for MCU brand alone.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 22 Nov 2017 16:46:07 No.96979437 Report

Quoted By: >>96979468 >>96979646

>>96967771
300, Watchmen and Dawn of the Dead were good. The rest of his movies are shit. Can you tell the difference?

It's that 300, Watchmen and Dawn of the Dead have Snyder trying to stay as close to the source material as possible. Everything else had his "own interpretations.

Snyder is capable of crafting good looking scenes but he's a HORRIBLE storyteller. He is physically incapable of crafting a competent let alone compelling story.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 22 Nov 2017 16:48:17 No.96979468 Report

Quoted By:

>>96979437
>Snyder is capable of crafting good looking scenes but he's a HORRIBLE storyteller.
Sounds like he should be a producer not a director.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 22 Nov 2017 16:58:35 No.96979626 Report

Quoted By:

>>96967771
Both 300 and Watchmen were terribly inacurate, but no one cared for ancient greeks or noname postmodern superheroes and thus judged only visuals in those movies.

Sucker Punch failed because everyone read/watched Over the Cuckoos Nest
DCEU movies failed because tons of people read and cared about Batman, Superman and all the others.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 22 Nov 2017 17:00:10 No.96979646 Report

Quoted By:

>>96976832
>>96979437

Even with Watchmen mostly being a panel for panel recreation it really missed the point of the book. I enjoyed it for what it was, but it missed the point.
Next up was Sucker Punch, and the trailers looked nuts. I thought this movie would absolutely rock, and it sucked. How do you take five young starlets, dress them sexy, give them guns and swords and dragons and have it suck? That took effort on Zack's part.
Then they gave him Man of Steel and I gave up.

>He is physically incapable of crafting a competent let alone compelling story
this is truth

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 22 Nov 2017 17:02:01 No.96979676 Report

Quoted By: >>96979750

>>96967771
he's a shit director and most people can't tell a good movie from a bad one especially when Snyder makes them look so aesthetic.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 22 Nov 2017 17:02:09 No.96979678 Report

Quoted By:

>>96979360
>Fucking milenials,
>no one over 20 think that snyder was ever a good director,
You are aware that most millennials are over 20 now, right? They're people born between 1981-1999

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 22 Nov 2017 17:05:03 No.96979718 Report

Quoted By:

Snyder should be restricted to directing music videos for alt rock bands.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 22 Nov 2017 17:06:21 No.96979743 Report

Quoted By:

>>96968013
Snyder tries to do too much. Sucker Punch had great action but it's pretentious story dragged it down. BvS suffers from this as well; he tries to be dark and edgy but ends up being clunky and naff.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 22 Nov 2017 17:06:49 No.96979750 Report

Quoted By: >>96979890

>>96979676
LOTS of people also bought into "if you dont like it you just aren't smart enough"
for some reason they wrapped up in that narrative and personally invested in it, and now cant take criticism of the movies as anything other than an insult to their intelligence.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 22 Nov 2017 17:07:56 No.96979774 Report

Quoted By:

>>96974114
i need this gif with the "dc franchise" in the face.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 22 Nov 2017 17:14:32 No.96979890 Report

Quoted By: >>96979985

>>96979750
I don't get why they turned into a fedora fandom, Michael is the same thing as snyder but better, however unlike Snydercuks Michaelbay fans don't pretend that their movie is deep or smart they know is miindless nosense.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 22 Nov 2017 17:15:59 No.96979914 Report

Quoted By: >>96979976 >>96980019

Snyder's great, Whedon ruined it

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 22 Nov 2017 17:17:08 No.96979936 Report

Quoted By:

>>96974249
they won't lol

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 22 Nov 2017 17:19:53 No.96979976 Report

Quoted By:

>>96979914
>give a child a broken toy

YOU RUINED IT!!!! REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 22 Nov 2017 17:20:34 No.96979985 Report

Quoted By:

>>96979890
From what I've read Bay is pretty self aware. He knows he's making big dumb action films and doesn't pretend it's anything more.

Anonymous

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Anonymous Wed 22 Nov 2017 17:22:59 No.96980019 Report

Quoted By: >>96980926

>>96979914
Avengers 2 was so much better than all snyder movies that is not even funny.

Whedon is a famous director that never made a bad movie while Snyder is an infamous director that never made a good movie

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 22 Nov 2017 17:34:41 No.96980233 Report

Quoted By:

>according the Snyder the fight between Superman and Zod kills 5000 people alone
Why even care about the necksnap at this point. Superman killed thousands and would have driven the country into a major economic crisis just through his fighting alone

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 22 Nov 2017 18:07:52 No.96980762 Report

Quoted By: >>96980957 >>96981040

>>96967855
>>96967902
>>96967957
>sorted by top critics
They all score 60%+, not saying they're masterpieces but you're a retard

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 22 Nov 2017 18:16:04 No.96980898 Report

Quoted By:

>>96974155
>it would explain but you still wouldn't understand
The excuse for every Snyderkino brainlet. I've yet to see any compelling argument for why Snyder's DC films are anything other than trash. It's always psuedointellectual wankery and pointing out hamfisted film student tier allegory. "Oh look, this one shot looks like a renaissance painting of Jesus." Never once have I seen an actual argument focusing on the substantive content of the films themselves. There simply isn't anything there. Its not that we don't get it. Snyder is legitimately an idiot who is trying to be smarter than he is.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 22 Nov 2017 18:17:05 No.96980924 Report

Quoted By:

>>96973173

Jumpin' Jesus Christ

Why did they choose him?

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 22 Nov 2017 18:17:13 No.96980926 Report

Quoted By:

>>96980019
>Whedon is a famous director that never made a bad movie
Let's not get carried away anon.

Anonymous

View Same Google iqdb SauceNAO MCU failures.png, 346KiB, 548x583

Anonymous Wed 22 Nov 2017 18:19:07 No.96980957 Report

Quoted By: >>96981210

>>96980762
You were saying...?

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 22 Nov 2017 18:23:32 No.96981040 Report

Quoted By: >>96981210

>>96980762
MCU made 20 movies and only 2 got less than 60% on their rotten score and they were still higher than all Snyder top scores except dawn of the dead, Zack Snyder made over 10 movies, only one with over 60% on top score.

Anonymous

View Same Google iqdb SauceNAO Untggitled.jpg, 576KiB, 1434x914

Anonymous Wed 22 Nov 2017 18:26:33 No.96981093 Report

Quoted By:

Snyder fags tickle me.

I may not like Whedon much, but he's okay at what he does.

Snyder having a great visual flair means nothing, if everything he builds around the visuals is hot garbage.

Even a lot of his visuals are just aping off works other people have done and adding more CG.

Jumpman !!wPhlyh8seG+

Jumpman !!wPhlyh8seG+ Wed 22 Nov 2017 18:31:39 No.96981204 Report

Quoted By:

>>96974474
>It was seen as a dumb action movie.

This is the biggest problem with Snyder's recent movies. He keeps thinking he's Christopher Nolan with these pretentious superhero films like MOS and BVS. It would be easy to forgive these movies if they were dumb action movies, but their atrocious attempt at being serious drag their quality straight to hell.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 22 Nov 2017 18:31:46 No.96981210 Report

Quoted By: >>96982779

>>96980957
>>96981040
>bringing up Marvel
I said nothing about marvel did I? Snyder is a hack but these scores were sorted by top critics only, that's why they were rotten.

Anonymous

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Anonymous Wed 22 Nov 2017 18:37:26 No.96981295 Report

Quoted By: >>96981427

Watchmen was good because of Dave Gibbons and Alan Moore, not because of Zack Snyder.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 22 Nov 2017 18:44:47 No.96981427 Report

Quoted By:

>>96981295
This.

Watchmen is Zack using Moore version of the Characters, he's a Moore fanboy and respected the guy works.

MoS is Zack making his own Superman, he said in a interview that Supes is a "broken characters and needs to be fixed"

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 22 Nov 2017 19:38:26 No.96982592 Report

Quoted By:

Reminder that 300 is based off the "Spartan mirage" and the most successful propaganda campaign in all of history
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hMQmU0epVr4&;

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 22 Nov 2017 19:46:53 No.96982779 Report

Quoted By:

>>96981210
I'm comparing Zack to a mediocre franscise reviews and how he managed to be way worse than them, Top critic score matter more than the normal one and is more consistent, Ghost busters got a rotten score by top but a certified fresh by normal ones

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 22 Nov 2017 19:52:50 No.96982915 Report

Quoted By:

>>96976772
Exactly. It's like all Snyder took away from that story was the iconography and "damn dude they're superheroes but they like break bones and shit". Basically the same approach to DCCU.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 22 Nov 2017 19:53:38 No.96982937 Report

Quoted By:

>>96975196
>misunderstood

There'd have to be something of substance to misunderstand first.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 22 Nov 2017 21:32:18 No.96985076 Report

Quoted By:

Snyder was never praised by critics, in fact he never had his own fandom until MoS

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