/co/ - Comics & Cartoons » Thread #94512904

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Frank Miller

Anonymous Tue 08 Aug 21:15:20 2017 No.94512904 View Reply Original Report

Quoted By: >>94513061 >>94513493 >>94513696 >>94514107

Does his work still hold up or is it dated? Is the hatred for him pedestrian or does it have merit?

I'm curious to hear about this from you, /co/.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 08 Aug 2017 21:21:06 No.94513029 Report

Quoted By: >>94513122 >>94513835 >>94514354

moronic normies can't talk about anything except how he's a racist or whatever.

He was and still is hugely influential on the medium in the USA. He was one of the first (or at least most touted) creators who adapted techniques and layouts used by manga artists as well as from cinematic composition theory. He blew up the traditional six-panel page and made treated the whole page as a canvas. For 15 years after The Dark Knight Returns the industry essentially folded in on itself trying to ape the feel he brought.

Yes, his work still holds up. He is and remains one of the greatest creators of the late 20th Century.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 08 Aug 2017 21:22:13 No.94513061 Report

Quoted By:

>>94512904
It holds up extremely well and while there is some valid criticism to be made of his more recent work, the hatred is pedestrian.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 08 Aug 2017 21:22:14 No.94513062 Report

Quoted By: >>94513086

His work really holds up, very very well, some of it even having become extremely prescient (attitudes in DKR of the talking heads, the satire in Martha Washington surrounding the US).

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 08 Aug 2017 21:23:15 No.94513086 Report

Quoted By: >>94513457

>>94513062
>prescient
or maybe the problems of today aren't so different from the problems of 30 years ago

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 08 Aug 2017 21:24:59 No.94513122 Report

Quoted By: >>94513138

>>94513029
>15 years
Didn't this comic come out in 1986? Or do you mean something different?

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 08 Aug 2017 21:25:40 No.94513138 Report

Quoted By: >>94513232

>>94513122
try reading that sentence again

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 08 Aug 2017 21:29:50 No.94513232 Report

Quoted By:

>>94513138
Oh, I see now. Sorry.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 08 Aug 2017 21:36:17 No.94513397 Report

Quoted By:

Year One
TDKR
Ronin
Daredevil
Give me liberty
Hard boiled
Big guy and rusty
Sin City

Don't get why people doubt him even his batshit insane stuff is still fun to read.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 08 Aug 2017 21:38:57 No.94513457 Report

Quoted By: >>94513490 >>94514121

>>94513086
Eh, both are future stories set in about the current time. I think Miller was trying to go for "if we continue this way this will happen" more than direct reference

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 08 Aug 2017 21:40:27 No.94513490 Report

Quoted By: >>94513558 >>94513611 >>94513673 >>94513855 >>94514121

>>94513457
>TDKR
>future story
Reagan is literally the president

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 08 Aug 2017 21:40:28 No.94513493 Report

Quoted By: >>94513584

>>94512904
Yes, it does. Add the Wolverine LS to that list. Even though it lists Claremont as the writer, it reads pretty much like a Miller story. You can definitely tell he was very much involved in it.

Even All Star Batman and Robin, if you read it with an open mind, is fun.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 08 Aug 2017 21:42:12 No.94513535 Report

Quoted By:

When he was starting his writing career and doing new stories, his stuff was pretty great.

As soon as he tasted his paycheck and got full of himself, he started sucking bawls.

I'd probably put the mark somewhere in the late 80s or early 90s for him. Everything before that reads as fresh as it was then, but everything after becomes some kind of simulacrum or some kind of parody of itself so much that it just loses a lot of coherency, and doesn't age well at all.

Of course, now all he does is sequels of sequels and milking dead cows.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 08 Aug 2017 21:43:02 No.94513558 Report

Quoted By:

>>94513490
And the idea of the Cold War escalating into a hot war under Reagan was a fear people had at the time.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 08 Aug 2017 21:44:10 No.94513584 Report

Quoted By:

>>94513493
>You can definitely tell he was very much involved in it.

You can tell he had the dialogue cut down

Anonymous

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Anonymous Tue 08 Aug 2017 21:44:21 No.94513588 Report

Quoted By: >>94513610

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 08 Aug 2017 21:45:05 No.94513604 Report

Quoted By:

Old man Frank still got it
Master Race #9 actually gave me hope. Can't wait for Frank's Superman and Whores story

Anonymous

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Anonymous Tue 08 Aug 2017 21:45:24 No.94513610 Report

Quoted By: >>94513638

>>94513588

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 08 Aug 2017 21:45:26 No.94513611 Report

Quoted By: >>94513855 >>94513935

>>94513490
I've always heard the idea is that DKR is set in an AU 80s, not the future, with the idea that Batman literally began his career back in 1940 but that's probably just fanon

Anonymous

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Anonymous Tue 08 Aug 2017 21:46:27 No.94513638 Report

Quoted By: >>94513702

>>94513610

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 08 Aug 2017 21:47:57 No.94513673 Report

Quoted By: >>94513935

>>94513490
So Jason would have been beaten and Killed in the 50s or 60s? because that doesn't make much sense?

Anonymous

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Anonymous Tue 08 Aug 2017 21:48:21 No.94513686 Report

Quoted By:

why did frank stop giving a shit after sin city

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 08 Aug 2017 21:48:40 No.94513696 Report

Quoted By:

>>94512904
I'd say Sin City still holds up.

Anonymous

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Anonymous Tue 08 Aug 2017 21:48:54 No.94513702 Report

Quoted By: >>94513724

>>94513638

Anonymous

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Anonymous Tue 08 Aug 2017 21:49:56 No.94513724 Report

Quoted By: >>94513752

>>94513702

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 08 Aug 2017 21:50:44 No.94513743 Report

Quoted By:

spoonfeed me a list of the comics he did (the good ones) after sin city. i'm lazy.

Anonymous

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Anonymous Tue 08 Aug 2017 21:51:08 No.94513752 Report

Quoted By: >>94513773

>>94513724

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 08 Aug 2017 21:51:31 No.94513761 Report

Quoted By:

>Does his work still hold up or is it dated?
Considering his large body of work, yes and no.

DKR is badass but with references to Regan, Nixon and the Soviet Union it is a product of its time.

On the other hand Sin City has this timeless quality that evokes a nostalgia for old film noir and gritty exploitation movies.

>pedestrian or does it have merit?

There are legitimate criticisms about his work but that seems to get overshadowed in the click bait nature of online journalism.

Anonymous

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Anonymous Tue 08 Aug 2017 21:52:11 No.94513773 Report

Quoted By: >>94513807

>>94513752

Anonymous

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Anonymous Tue 08 Aug 2017 21:53:15 No.94513807 Report

Quoted By: >>94513828

>>94513773

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 08 Aug 2017 21:54:06 No.94513825 Report

Quoted By: >>94513846 >>94513878 >>94513926

alan moore is my nigger, but i can't take him seriously when he suggests miller treats women badly in his comics. i don't feel like getting into whether prostitution should or should not be a thing, but i don't think the whores in sin city cast women in a bad light. also--it's FICTION. and therefore representative. it's not like frank miller has the power to legalize prostitution.

Anonymous

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Anonymous Tue 08 Aug 2017 21:54:19 No.94513828 Report

Quoted By:

>>94513807

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 08 Aug 2017 21:54:51 No.94513835 Report

Quoted By: >>94513963

>>94513029
But Howard Chaykin did all of that before Miller

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 08 Aug 2017 21:55:07 No.94513846 Report

Quoted By: >>94513877 >>94513901

>>94513825
Please don't write slurs.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 08 Aug 2017 21:55:33 No.94513855 Report

Quoted By:

>>94513611
Well there's a lot of 80's references in DKR. The talk show host is based on David Letterman, the guest who kept talking about "zex und zex" is Dr. Ruth who got big in the 1980s. And of course Reagan was President as >>94513490 pointed out.

Also Bruce is said to be 55 years old when he "died." And taking into account that Reagan was President between 1981-1989, and DKR would have to take place either 1986 or before, it probably means Batman would be born anywhere between 1926 to 1931.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 08 Aug 2017 21:55:36 No.94513856 Report

Quoted By:

http://comicsworkbook.com/08072017-2/

>DK2, to me, reads like a Bizarro World of Paper Rad, B.J. & da Dogs fan art on cocaine. Surely, DK2 would have received more love from PictureBox readers rather than the impossible-to-please nerds who masturbate to their DC Comics. Miller’s cartooning and Varley’s colors simultaneously marry and divorce each other in a chaotic fever dream of 21st Century Digital Age fury. It’s a shock to the senses and was, for many, Miller’s last straw that broke the camel’s back. He had gone too far.

>DK2 as a sequel to The Dark Knight Returns is a total and absolute failure. However! DK2 as a stream of consciousness art comic/love letter to the superhero genre is an unsurpassed gold medal achievement.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 08 Aug 2017 21:56:18 No.94513877 Report

Quoted By: >>94513901

>>94513846
Where the hell do you think you are?

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 08 Aug 2017 21:56:25 No.94513878 Report

Quoted By:

>>94513825
Moore is one to talk considering how often he inserts rape into his comics

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 08 Aug 2017 21:57:40 No.94513901 Report

Quoted By:

>>94513846
>>94513877
poe's law in effect. i can't tell if he's serious.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 08 Aug 2017 21:58:39 No.94513926 Report

Quoted By: >>94514026

>>94513825
>it's FICTION

Yeah I always thought inferring someone's views from what they write is dangerous.

> In one panel of DKR a guy says he doesn't like gay people. Clearly this means Miller is homophobic
That's a real argument I've seen.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 08 Aug 2017 21:59:00 No.94513935 Report

Quoted By:

>>94513673
>>94513611
If we believe that DKR takes place in 1986, then Jason was killed in 1976 since the reporter said it's been 10 years since Batman was last seen. Since Reagan's president DKR has to be between 1981-1986. If you assume it's 1981, then Jason died in 1971.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 08 Aug 2017 22:00:23 No.94513963 Report

Quoted By:

>>94513835
they both started around the same time

but Miller got a major title first

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 08 Aug 2017 22:02:31 No.94514026 Report

Quoted By:

>>94513926
>Yeah I always thought inferring someone's views from what they write is dangerous.

It's weird he did that considering he was upset with a bunch of people inferring Moore's views in that one rant he had (the one where he later vented about Morrison, but before that he was addressing and venting about three other people).

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 08 Aug 2017 22:06:36 No.94514107 Report

Quoted By: >>94514148 >>94514157

>>94512904
His 80s work was great.

His 90s stuff got a bit formulaic but still pretty good anyway being 300 his last good work.

Beyond that his randian power fantasies got stale and declined down the toilet he is right now.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 08 Aug 2017 22:07:09 No.94514121 Report

Quoted By: >>94514201 >>94514296

>>94513457
>>94513490

The whole DK timeline is fucked, even from Franks perspective.

DKR is supposed to be set in the "present " of 1985, but starring Franks version of the Golden/silver Age Batman who operated in his peak in the 40s to 60s.

Year One is a prequel to DKR but takes place in the 70s.

DK2 is set a 3 years later( Carrie Kelly was 13 in DKR and at least 16 in DK2) but clearly it's set after the millennium.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 08 Aug 2017 22:08:48 No.94514148 Report

Quoted By:

>>94514107
So basically following the same arc as any musician that doesn't join the 27 club.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 08 Aug 2017 22:09:12 No.94514157 Report

Quoted By:

>>94514107
>Martha Washington starts as super dark satire
>then becomes a Randian fantasy becuse Miller had read Atlas Shrugged last week
>then Miller realizes that was dumb and it just goes full sci-fi
what a time reading that complete edition was

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 08 Aug 2017 22:10:51 No.94514201 Report

Quoted By: >>94514287

>>94514121
>Franks perspective.

*Frank's perspective.

Anonymous

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Anonymous Tue 08 Aug 2017 22:14:35 No.94514287 Report

Quoted By:

>>94514201
>>Franks perspective.
>
>*Frank's perspective.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 08 Aug 2017 22:14:56 No.94514296 Report

Quoted By:

>>94514121
Also had Holy Terror been still part of Batman it would've taken place between Year One and All Star, but Holy Terror obviously takes place in the 00's/10's.

And All Star Batman definitely looks like it takes place in the 00's.

Spawn/Batman which takes place after All Star Batman but before DKR shows the Cold War had already ended so it's the 90's.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 08 Aug 2017 22:17:05 No.94514354 Report

Quoted By: >>94514531 >>94514574

>>94513029
>moronic normies can't talk about anything except how he's a racist or whatever.

Does Martha Washington ever come up? With all the clamoring for "women of color" protagonists, that series seems like it would deliver in spades.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 08 Aug 2017 22:20:18 No.94514444 Report

Quoted By:

Dark Knights Strikes Again is a massively underrated book even if he is a fuckin insane racist old man now

DKR sucks though

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 08 Aug 2017 22:23:30 No.94514531 Report

Quoted By:

>>94514354
people who claim to care about people of color don't do their homework and don't actually care about people of color.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 08 Aug 2017 22:24:57 No.94514574 Report

Quoted By:

>>94514354
Martha Washington is in a weird place because the second series is expressly a Randian power fantasy

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 08 Aug 2017 23:44:55 No.94516461 Report

Quoted By: >>94517057

Most people today don't give two fucks about Frank Miller.

When he dies, you'll see some folks mention it in sites like this one, but I seriously doubt that one year later, people will mention it with any feelings like they do say Darwyn Cooke.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 09 Aug 2017 00:13:24 No.94517057 Report

Quoted By:

>>94516461
if he really knocks it out of the park on his Superman book, I think people will remember him pretty fondly

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