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Marvel Renumbering

Anonymous Fri 28 Apr 22:12:57 2017 No.91925533 View Reply Original Report

Quoted By: >>91925949 >>91926396 >>91926466 >>91926630 >>91927072 >>91928560

Marvel has said they're returning to legacy numbering, but how do Marvel renumberings actually work?

If I have Spider-man 1-100, and then there is a reboot for volume 2 from issues 1-50, and then Marvel decides to do a renumbering starting with 151, has the existence of a volume 2 been erased? Am I now supposed to consider volume 1 and 2 the same volume, and file them together or whatever?

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 28 Apr 2017 22:17:58 No.91925653 Report

Quoted By: >>91925737 >>91925741 >>91934911 >>91937074

>ASM going to be at ASM 48

>81 if we're counting Superior.

They're just doing this to make and over priced ASM 800, aren't they?

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 28 Apr 2017 22:18:14 No.91925662 Report

Quoted By:

If they follow the Detective/Action Comics model, then I would assume so.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 28 Apr 2017 22:19:59 No.91925704 Report

Quoted By:

FART FAAAART SHART

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 28 Apr 2017 22:20:58 No.91925724 Report

Quoted By:

I have no idea how they're gonna renumber X-Men Gold and X-Men Blue.

I assume gold gets Uncanny's numbering and Blue gets Adjectiveless/New/Legacy's?

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 28 Apr 2017 22:21:38 No.91925737 Report

Quoted By: >>91926466 >>91926542 >>91937074

>>91925653
I could see them using Ultimate line numbers in there too if it means beating DC to issue #1000

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 28 Apr 2017 22:21:54 No.91925741 Report

Quoted By: >>91927137

>>91925653
Nah, they wouldn't need an excuse for that.

for OP's question, typically they count whatever the main book was at the time. So with Amazing Spider-Man, they will probably count Superior as part of that.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 28 Apr 2017 22:31:07 No.91925949 Report

Quoted By:

>>91925533
I'd like it if they kept the legacy number going in an out of the way place and then had the upper left corner number be related to the story at hand, ideally in a "Story name: #X" format. It'd make it easy to tell how deep into a story a comic is, where the good jumping on points are, and let them pump out the #1's they love without constantly going back and fucking up databases and all that.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 28 Apr 2017 22:35:00 No.91926038 Report

Quoted By: >>91926464 >>91926466

they will just milk any possible series with any logic that makes a little sense to try get closer to 1000 than action comics

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 28 Apr 2017 22:51:44 No.91926396 Report

Quoted By:

>>91925533
>Am I now supposed to consider volume 1 and 2 the same volume, and file them together or whatever?

Sure.

The simplified volume numbering comics have used historically is nothing like normal periodical numbering.

Normal periodicals - if there even is such a thing - re-volume at set points, often around a year of printings, but retain the overall issue number as it helps differentiate between issues printed 11 or 6 years apart (depending on the starting year and number of intervening leap years) which would otherwise both identically be eg "Monday September 3" or whatever, as well as providing differentiation greater than YYYY:MM where MM is both month and issue number for that volume and YYYY is Year but may be shortened to or replaced with volume number. In this case, it's important that different editorial choices decades ahead not be presumed - so if you started printing in Year 17 (this year) and renumbered every year your Volume 17 would begin in 2033, but the potential to have both your starting volume and your 2033 editions confused is quite high, and only gets worse if you consider the potential repetition of exact day/date combinations - in theory you could end up with a first volume which begins in a year which has not only the same number as a later volume but identical printing dates, which is just a pain in the ass to deal with in any kind of database, let alone an old card catalog (as most publishers historically used when these systems were invented) in which you're just one intern away from utter confusion.

Having a single contiguous number system, even one which is retroactively derived by filing earlier volumes which are not in fact physically numbered according to their absolute position in publication order, is a simple, clean and effective way of managing your catalog.

It's just that comics as a rule are printed for morons who like bagging things and putting them in boxes, not morons who like creating and maintaining databases.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 28 Apr 2017 22:55:12 No.91926464 Report

Quoted By:

>>91926038
That's basically impossible, you'd need to be over 950 at this point and publish weekly to even get close to passing

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 28 Apr 2017 22:55:18 No.91926466 Report

Quoted By:

>>91926038
>>91925737
That would be a pretty scummy thing, so I can totally see that happen

>>91925533
But anyways, I've read somewhere that they're going to give handouts to explain how they get the numbers, so just chill and wait a little senpai

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 28 Apr 2017 22:58:58 No.91926542 Report

Quoted By:

>>91925737
I imagine if they were going to apply the Ultimate numbering to anyone, it would be Miles.

Anonymous

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Anonymous Fri 28 Apr 2017 23:02:41 No.91926630 Report

Quoted By: >>91926884

>>91925533
Finally a way for Captain Marvel to reach issue 100!

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 28 Apr 2017 23:13:38 No.91926884 Report

Quoted By: >>91926910 >>91926954 >>91927769 >>91928065

>>91926630
It'd probably be #200. If you count up all the volumes of Captain Marvel including the current one then you've got 183 so far.

Then you could also add the 3 issues of "Untold Legend of Captain Marvel" and the 4 issues of Captain Marvel and the Carol Corps, and you'd get 190. They'd just need 9 more issues before they could relaunch at 200. They've already solicited 3 more issues up to July. If they count the Generations one-shot and don't double-ship then they'd be hitting 200 in January.

Ironic though that Carol would have her big legacy numbering be #200.

Anonymous

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Anonymous Fri 28 Apr 2017 23:14:54 No.91926910 Report

Quoted By:

>>91926884
>Carol would have her big legacy numbering be #200

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 28 Apr 2017 23:16:42 No.91926954 Report

Quoted By:

>>91926884
...and then it would be cancelled at 209 and relaunched again...

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 28 Apr 2017 23:18:22 No.91926990 Report

Quoted By: >>91927036

nice

but no ff eh

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 28 Apr 2017 23:20:06 No.91927036 Report

Quoted By: >>91927075 >>91927181

>>91926990
they were on notice ever since Millar

they just never sold all that well since the 80s

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 28 Apr 2017 23:21:17 No.91927072 Report

Quoted By:

>>91925533

Yeah, file them in a steaight order as if the nimvers never rebooted. It's a pain in the ass, I agree.

V1->V2->Return to classic numbering is how I handle it.

Luckily we're readers and collectors. We can file by chronology or whatever we like as long as it works for us. LCS's have to make weird calls.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 28 Apr 2017 23:21:26 No.91927075 Report

Quoted By: >>91927389 >>91931252

>>91927036
>they just never sold all that well since the 80s
Hickman's run sold so well that it justified becoming two books so it could essentially double ship. There were some months during Hickman's run where Fantastic Four outsold Batman.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 28 Apr 2017 23:23:53 No.91927137 Report

Quoted By: >>91927379

>>91925741
I doubt they'll count Superior, but I guess they could.

It doesn't matter to them how close to 1000 they are, just how close to 800, because -00 issues always sell a lot of people with mashed potatoes for brains.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 28 Apr 2017 23:26:00 No.91927181 Report

Quoted By: >>91927515 >>91931252

>>91927036
>January 2011
>1 Fantastic Four 587 $3.99 Marvel 115,448
>2 Brightest Day 17 $2.99 DC 72,841
>3 Brightest Day 18 $2.99 DC 72,090
>4 Spawn 200 $3.99 Image 65,448
>5 Avengers 9 $3.99 Marvel 64,867
>6 X-Men 7 $3.99 Marvel 64,615
>7 Batman And Robin 19 $2.99 DC 61,785
>8 New Avengers 8 $3.99 Marvel 61,169
>9 Batman 706 $2.99 DC 60,231
>10 Amazing Spider-Man 651 $3.99 Marvel 56,749

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 28 Apr 2017 23:33:07 No.91927379 Report

Quoted By: >>91928065

>>91927137
Well let's see.
>Amazing Spider-man 1-700
>Amazing Spider-man 1-18
>Amazing Spider-man 1-30 (up to July solicitations)
So if you only count "Amazing Spider-man" then that gets you to 748. If you count Superior Spider-man, since that was essentially just a renamed Amazing Spider-man, then that's another 33 issues which puts you at 781.

At that point, it's pretty trivial getting to 800. Throw in the 5 .1 issues of ASM that make up learning to crawl and you've got 786. They could double-ship ASM to get the remaining issue numbers in time for Legacy, plus count things like the Generations one-shot, Clone Conspiracy, or the Secret Wars RYV mini to speed things along as need be.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 28 Apr 2017 23:33:19 No.91927389 Report

Quoted By: >>91927468

>>91927075
thats hickman writing.

take him off and bam low sales.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 28 Apr 2017 23:36:06 No.91927468 Report

Quoted By: >>91927704

>>91927389
But Fantastic Four is what made Hickman a superstar. Going into F4, he was a no name writer that had only a back-up story in an anthology and a Satana mini. It's not like people went "oh man, Hickman? I've gotta buy this." I mean shit, his Fantastic Four was outselling Morrison's Batman and Robin and Morrison is sure as fuck a bigger name than Hickman is, was, and ever will be.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 28 Apr 2017 23:37:45 No.91927515 Report

Quoted By: >>91927676 >>91927704

>>91927181
That was the much hyped, polybagged, 'death' issue, so no wonder it sold so well

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 28 Apr 2017 23:44:09 No.91927676 Report

Quoted By: >>91928934

>>91927515
February 2011:
>1 Green Lantern 62 $2.99 DC 71,517
>2 Brightest Day 19 $2.99 DC 71,063
>3 Brightest Day 20 $2.99 DC 69,729
>4 Avengers 10 $3.99 Marvel 63,924
>5 Fantastic Four 588 $3.99 Marvel 63,529
>6 New Avengers 9 $3.99 Marvel 60,914
>7 Batman And Robin 20 $2.99 DC 60,642
>8 Batman 707 $2.99 DC 58,803
>9 Flash 9 $2.99 DC 55,980
>10 Amazing Spider-Man 654.1 $2.99 Marvel 55,283

Still outselling Batman, ASM, and X-men. This was in February. Fantastic Four CONTINUED to outsell Batman until July. That's 6 months of Fantastic Four outselling Batman.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 28 Apr 2017 23:45:13 No.91927704 Report

Quoted By: >>91927733

>>91927468
No, it didn't sell more than Morrison's Batman and Robin
Here, the sales data from the month of B&R 16, Morrison's final issue:
http://www.comichron.com/monthlycomicssales/2010/2010-11.html
It sold about 40000 more than Hickman's FF
Like I wrote >>91927515 here FF sales only improved with that issue

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 28 Apr 2017 23:46:27 No.91927733 Report

Quoted By: >>91928036

>>91927704
Fair point, but in March through June, FF outsold Morrison's Batman Inc.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 28 Apr 2017 23:47:52 No.91927769 Report

Quoted By: >>91928021

>>91926884
Carol is so pathetic

Anonymous

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Anonymous Fri 28 Apr 2017 23:57:37 No.91928021 Report

Quoted By:

>>91927769
Carol Longest Running marvel Female book. Yaas queen. Wait never mind.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 28 Apr 2017 23:58:11 No.91928036 Report

Quoted By: >>91928101

>>91927733
You are right on that count
Still, it's telling that they needed a very good, if not yet superstar writer, good artists, the polybagged death of Johnny, a relaunch with a new title (with Spider-Man!), and then an issue 600 just to give the title good numbers
So it's not an easy sell by any means

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 28 Apr 2017 23:59:18 No.91928065 Report

Quoted By:

>>91926884
>>91927379
Huh, this has me curious where other books will fall. How about Thor?

The last time they were at Legacy numbering was Thor #621 which then became Journey into Mystery 622. But 622-655 were about Loki then Sif. Still, I imagine they'd count the Loki/Sif ones since Journey Into Mystery was essentially treated as "Thor" interchangeably over the years for numbering purposes.

So:
>JiM 1-655
>Mighty Thor 1-22
>Thor: God of Thunder 1-25
>Unworthy Thor 1-5
That puts us at 717.

They could either go for 750 or 800 at this point. If we then count the Jane Foster issues (which, Eric Masterson, Loki and Sif are all counted in this for when they headlined the book so it should count), we've got:
>Thor 1-8
>Mighty Thor 1-21 (July solicits)
Which gets us to 746. Perfect for a 750 relaunch if the arc that's going on in June/July wraps up three issues later in October at what would be 749.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 29 Apr 2017 00:00:49 No.91928101 Report

Quoted By:

>>91928036
An easy sell, no, but it's certainly doable. Remember that at the same time, Green Lantern was blowing out every other DC property in terms of sales.

Just 6 years ago, Fantastic Four and Green Lantern were headlining the sales charts. Then Hickman and Johns leave and both properties start to tank.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 29 Apr 2017 00:08:16 No.91928317 Report

Quoted By:

Jeez, marvel is learning all the wrong shit.

Renumbering the two oldest big 2 titles was just warm and fuzzy because Action will reach #1000 in ~2 years (depending if/when they quit doubleshipping) and 'Tec will soon follow it. That's as a very rare and satisfying number, going from a triple digit to a quad digit and taking 80 years to do it.

Who gives a shit if Carol is gonna be on #200 or Black Panther on #176 or whatever.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 29 Apr 2017 00:14:13 No.91928478 Report

Quoted By: >>91928655

How the hell is this supposed to help new readers? If you're just now getting into Marvel, then you have my deepest sympathies.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 29 Apr 2017 00:17:19 No.91928560 Report

Quoted By:

>>91925533
Titles that should have legacy numbers:
>Amazing Spider-Man
>Avengers
>Captain America
>Daredevil
>Fantastic Four
>Incredible Hulk
>Iron Man
>Thor
>Uncanny X-Men
These are the cornerstones of the Marvel Universe that have almost been continuously published from the 60s to up till about a decade ago. To me, giving other titles legacy numbers would feel (for lack of a better word) dishonest.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 29 Apr 2017 00:21:21 No.91928655 Report

Quoted By:

>>91928478

This is the stupidest argument in the information age. Any retard can access comic book history in a matter of seconds.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 29 Apr 2017 00:30:51 No.91928934 Report

Quoted By:

>>91927676
I remember this was the worst-selling month of comics in a long time. Possibly ever.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 29 Apr 2017 01:54:58 No.91931252 Report

Quoted By: >>91934807

>>91927075
>>91927181
Mmm-hmm.

What's better than one issue that sells 115,000, anons?

Twelve issues that sell 50,000 each. You see how that's where the bottom of the top 10 that month lies? That's where they should have been to be considered selling well. Not necessarily in the top 10, just consistently selling at a high rate, because that indicates actual buyers, not just stores ordering high for variants and price breaks on special issues. Over the past decade or so, at least since their respective soft reboots, Batman and ASM have achieved this. They are the gold standard to beat, whether you ship once or twice a month.

>Hickman's run

FF#1 sold about 114k; FF#2 about 70k (dropoff 39% from #1); FF#3 66k, FF#4 60k (double shipped); #5 was the #5 book that month with just 59k sales, #6 and #7 dropped to 55k then 54k (double shipped), #8 dropped to 52k, #9 actually went up to 53k, #10 and #11 dropped to 49k then 48k, #12 stuck at 49k while Fantastic Four 600 (huge variants etc) managed just 74k sales.

Thereafter both titles rapidly dropped to 40k, then below, with FF falling faster until by the end FF was scraping 30k on its final big-reveal-totes-about-the-ebin-story issue and Fantastic Four was limping to an early grave at #611.

The following month they were relaunched with new creative teams - Fraction writing both, in the period after his much-maligned and really quite appallingly dull Fear Itself shitshow - and the relaunches sold just slightly higher than Hickman's relaunches had.

This was less than 2 years later. If your answer to "the FF don't sell" was "put Hickman on them forever", you were wrong; if your answer to "the FF don't sell" was "relaunch them again and again like Marvel has been doing since Millar's run", you were wrong. If your answer to "the FF don't sell" was "but the faaaans", you were wrong. They don't have any.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 29 Apr 2017 03:53:03 No.91934133 Report

Quoted By:

Insider here.
It's for an upcoming event -- Marvel 1000

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 29 Apr 2017 04:21:17 No.91934807 Report

Quoted By:

>>91931252
My answer is that even at their lowest, they never dropped below 30k, which is higher than the majority of Marvel books are currently selling. Meaning that even if they're not what they used to be, not only did they never actually fall below cancellation numbers, but you'd have to cancel 2/3rds of their current line before F4 if they were still around.

Hickman's run proved that you can get the Fantastic Four in the top 10 for multiple months. Everything that followed Hickman's run proved that even at their worst, the F4 can sell comfortably even if they're no longer the pillar of the company they were before the 80s.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 29 Apr 2017 04:26:01 No.91934911 Report

Quoted By:

>>91925653
they would do that even without legacy numbering. they did for x-men about a year or two ago.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 29 Apr 2017 06:02:29 No.91937074 Report

Quoted By:

>>91925653
>They're just doing this to make and over priced ASM 800, aren't they?

Pretty much.

Counting the main ASM and Superior Spider-Man we get around 783~ meaning they'd hit 800 next year unless they start double shipping. They'll hit it earlier if they count the .1 issues.

>>91925737
Miles will probably get the ultimate numbering. Putting him around 220~.

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