/co/ - Comics & Cartoons » Thread #114103773

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Anonymous Sat 04 Apr 23:29:57 2020 No.114103773 View Reply Original Report

Quoted By: >>114104181 >>114104696 >>114105261 >>114105774 >>114105809 >>114105838 >>114106309 >>114106353 >>114113211 >>114114932 >>114117101 >>114119925 >>114120954

Even if Norman got a "clean bill of health" for the "Carnage business", shouldn't he still be on the hook for the many many crimes he committed during Dark Reign, Siege, the Return of HAMMER, and Goblin Nation? You'd think that the government and the media wouldn't be too happy about a guy who tried to overthrow the government and murder a bunch of people after tricking everyone that he was totally a good guy waltzing around a free man. I don't care how many strings Wilson Fisk pulled, this should be beyond even his power to do.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 04 Apr 2020 23:54:12 No.114104181 Report

Quoted By: >>114104384 >>114105395 >>114105744 >>114118250 >>114120284

>>114103773
do spider-man fans like norman? I like green goblin but knowing its noman under the costume annoys me fuck that guy

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 05 Apr 2020 00:03:03 No.114104384 Report

Quoted By: >>114106859 >>114116416 >>114119878 >>114121035

>>114104181
I don't like the Lex Luthorification of Norman.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 05 Apr 2020 00:06:44 No.114104471 Report

Quoted By:

After a certain point all of this stuff becomes ridiculous. In the early 2010s Marvel was saying everything from FF #1 to what they were publishing at the time happened in a fifteen year timeline. It wasn't even a full year between Civil War and Secret Invasion in-universe iirc. Yeah, stuff is stupid but it has to be for anything to make sense.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 05 Apr 2020 00:17:34 No.114104696 Report

Quoted By: >>114105261 >>114114854 >>114117046 >>114120012

>>114103773
Wilson Fisk himself is an example of a criminal getting away with crimes he shouldn't realistically be able to, and nobody giving a fuck about it to the point that enough idiots voted for him to be Mayor.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 05 Apr 2020 00:30:12 No.114104999 Report

Quoted By: >>114105085

Source?

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 05 Apr 2020 00:33:31 No.114105085 Report

Quoted By: >>114114951

>>114104999
Ravencroft #1. Norman has now been put in charge of the same insane asylum he was just released from.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 05 Apr 2020 00:40:15 No.114105261 Report

Quoted By:

>>114103773
>>114104696
>Norman and Fisk (lel sounds like a law firm) have Joker-tier plot armor
I can't really care about this because trying to inject too much realism into comics tends to fuck them up.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 05 Apr 2020 00:44:48 No.114105395 Report

Quoted By: >>114118250

>>114104181
I've fucking NEVER liked Norman Osborne.
Not ever.
Not once.
Not in any incarnation.
No I take that back. The casting for him in the first spiderman movie was fucking inspired.
Not doing a practical effecrts mask for him was fucking bullshit.
Beyond that, never been a good norman osborn and him being brought back brings less then fucking nothing to the table.

He brings about as much to the spiderman mythos as fucking gwen stacey.
Fucking nothing.
Just comfortable bullshit for men who long ago aged out of comic books and the losers who're still there.

Goddamn, they still think highschool spiderman was fucking good when he didn't even hit his goddamend stride till he was out of college and a young adult.
Worst thing about all of this? SPiderman in canon has more experience as a hero and more terrifying and powerful rogues gallery then anyone on the avengers roster that isn't a damned god.

What a motherfucking disaster and misunderstanidng of what makes their characer well liked and marketable.

Want to know something sad?
DEADPOOL is a better Spiderman then the MCU debacle of a Spiderman.

Anonymous

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Anonymous Sun 05 Apr 2020 00:58:26 No.114105744 Report

Quoted By: >>114106320

>>114104181
I like Norman Osborn. He is an alpha villain.

I hate sympathetic villains, and while I like the casual career crook kind of villains, Flash's rogues do a better job than Sandman and the gang at that shtick

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 05 Apr 2020 00:59:35 No.114105774 Report

Quoted By:

>>114103773
We can't have new characters because the writers are shit and old legacy characters can't die or be destroyed so they can't impact the plot so you're stuck with them. Try reading other comics.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 05 Apr 2020 01:01:09 No.114105809 Report

Quoted By:

>>114103773
Does Spider-Man know about this?

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 05 Apr 2020 01:02:25 No.114105838 Report

Quoted By:

>>114103773
Capeshit writers are terrible, neverending comicbooks are a cancer

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 05 Apr 2020 01:23:03 No.114106309 Report

Quoted By:

>>114103773
>Those damn muties made me do it. Emma Frost was butthurt about the whole Utopia thing.

Anonymous

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Anonymous Sun 05 Apr 2020 01:23:34 No.114106320 Report

Quoted By: >>114106660 >>114114978

>>114105744
Osborn is one of the few villains that genuinely terrify me. He doesn't give a flying fuck about world domination, he wants to torture you. He wants to drive you to absolute insanity via any means possible whether that be chemical injections or psycological manipulion or good old fashioned blackmail.

Norman will infiltrate your life via your personal and work life. He will identify who you care for, and strip them from you as if one was tearing wings off a fly. To list just a few of the terrible things Norman has done, he has...
1. Kidnapped, tortured, and murdered a fair number of people.
2. Gave someone AIDS
3. Fucked the girlfriends of his son (Harry) and son surrogate (Peter).
4. Force fed a drunk alcohol, forced him into a truck, and drive it into a school causing brain damage.
5. Go on live television in full on goblin gear and say Spidey was at fault for Gwen Stacy.
6. Threaten to kill his own grandson to get Peter to up his game.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 05 Apr 2020 01:25:13 No.114106353 Report

Quoted By:

>>114103773
Just do what I do, accept the Earth-616 human standard of morality is so fucking bankrupt that nobody actually cares about Osborne and Fisk getting scott free out of jail other than the supers whose job is to fight them

Anonymous

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Anonymous Sun 05 Apr 2020 01:33:07 No.114106498 Report

Quoted By: >>114122710

He was interesting back in the 60s when he was legit mentally ill. The modern super genius manipulator Lex Luthor type shit is incredibly intrue to the character.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 05 Apr 2020 01:41:25 No.114106660 Report

Quoted By: >>114106766 >>114106788 >>114114978 >>114115205 >>114118250

>>114106320
Anon, the average spidey villian has done as bad if not worse shit, and manage to be more entertaining, powerful, and useful as villains outside of spiderman.

Shit if the sinister six decided to fight oldschool avengers they'd slap their shit.
Dock Oc is on IM's tier in terms of tech and radiation
Absorbing man alone is able to tank both thor and hulk
Sandman can nuke most of the b and c tier villlains
Electro alone is a world class threat. WORLD CLASS THREAT.

And spidey fights all of them.
Then there's fucking Norman Osborn.
The fuck does he bring to the table outside of shitty storylines that are constantly gone back to because imbeciles who never read spiderman thin he's cool or that people who do read spidermna likes him as a villain.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 05 Apr 2020 01:46:21 No.114106766 Report

Quoted By:

>>114106660
>power level shittery
Ok, first of all, villains like Sandman and Electro are just goons out for a money bags, they might have really big powers, but they don't have the brains nor the evilness to do anything big with them, which is why they generally don't, they're just out to get money illegally and use their powers to do that.

And as for Norman, he's as strong and tough and fast as Spider-Man is physically and has a healing factor, what else does he need? Spider-Man has web spinners, he has a glider and bombs. They're basically just an even match, so if Spider-Man can take out those guys you bet Norman could do, and the funny thing is Norman wouldn't even do it on the battlefield.

Anonymous

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Anonymous Sun 05 Apr 2020 01:47:11 No.114106788 Report

Quoted By: >>114106995 >>114114978

>>114106660
The dude stalks you. He puts on the goblin duds and does nothing but follow you around. He becomes a constant factor in your life. He infects it like a virus on every conceivable level. What makes Osborn scary isn't that he's powerful, it's because he's not a "One and Done" villain, where you can have one regular brawl and the villain is then dealt with for a couple months. Just because you beat the shit out of Osborn doesn't mean you've beat him. He's more than comfortable operating in the shadows as well as acting on the front lines. He's a manipulative charmer capable of weaponizing any and everyone stupid enough to engage him.

Again, Osborn isn't scary because he's powerful. He's scary because of how personal he makes it. Maybe it's because i've had a stalker before, but knowing that at any given moment someone could be actively following you with questionable intentions is unnerving. They know you. They know your likes, dislikes, friends, family, and YOUR SCHEDULE! They will appear anywhere and everywhere and that is preciesly what makes Osborn (not just the Gobin) on a completely different level.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 05 Apr 2020 01:50:28 No.114106859 Report

Quoted By:

>>114104384
Come to that, I don't like the Lex Luthorification of Lex Luthor. Like, maybe it was a cool idea once or twice but the way all the big "tycoon" characters end up the same way is real lazy writing.

Anonymous

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Anonymous Sun 05 Apr 2020 01:56:07 No.114106995 Report

Quoted By: >>114107111

>>114106788
>Maybe it's because i've had a stalker before, but knowing that at any given moment someone could be actively following you with questionable intentions is unnerving. They know you. They know your likes, dislikes, friends, family, and YOUR SCHEDULE! They will appear anywhere and everywhere and that is preciesly what makes Osborn (not just the Gobin) on a completely different level.

I just want to say, since we're on the topic of Spidey villains, this is exactly what made Venom such a big threat to Peter, aside from the fact that he could beat his ass. The thing with Venom though is readers all just thought he was really cool so it's hard to find him scary, but he was terrifying to Peter Parker.

Anonymous

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Anonymous Sun 05 Apr 2020 02:01:12 No.114107111 Report

Quoted By: >>114107965 >>114119982

>>114106995
>this is exactly what made Venom such a big threat to Peter
You are so fucking right, and it's for that reason why Venom is another villain that makes it into the category of genuinely terrifying. The third episode of the alien costume storyline delivered a Venom experience that even kid me had trouble adjusting too. And the fact they did this entire episode WITHOUT HAVING PETER THROW A SINGLE PUNCH is a testament to this shows quality writing.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=17UoIKx8rp4

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 05 Apr 2020 02:43:31 No.114107965 Report

Quoted By:

>>114107111
Spider-Man TAS overall was pretty good, not on the level of Batman TAS but it could have been potentially

Anonymous

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Anonymous Sun 05 Apr 2020 03:58:46 No.114110171 Report

Quoted By:

Dark Reign is easily one of my favorite (if not THE favorite) eras of the Marvel Universe.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 05 Apr 2020 05:24:03 No.114113211 Report

Quoted By: >>114114158

>>114103773
This is Marvel. Since civil war, there is no sense of accountability due of hack writers

Anonymous

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Anonymous Sun 05 Apr 2020 05:58:31 No.114114158 Report

Quoted By:

>>114113211
Stormin Norman atoned for his crimes, saved the world from a Skrull invasion, and single handedly saved the president of the united states from the Green Goblin and rampaging Doc Samson. Norman truly is the people's hero.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 05 Apr 2020 06:20:46 No.114114854 Report

Quoted By:

>>114104696
i mean marvel citizens are pretty realistic in that sense. people will vote for anyone who says things they like instead of their actual history.

Anonymous

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Anonymous Sun 05 Apr 2020 06:23:49 No.114114932 Report

Quoted By:

>>114103773
RAPE!!!!

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 05 Apr 2020 06:24:46 No.114114951 Report

Quoted By:

>>114105085
That just sounds fucking stupid.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 05 Apr 2020 06:25:48 No.114114978 Report

Quoted By:

>>114106788
>>114106660
>>114106320
Meh.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 05 Apr 2020 06:33:44 No.114115205 Report

Quoted By: >>114121007

>>114106660
>Dock Oc is on IM's tier in terms of tech and radiation
He honestly isn't. Anyone that tells you otherwise are fools.

>Absorbing man alone is able to tank both thor and hulk
He seriously can't. We already have a few canon instances of what happens to Absorbing Man the moment Thor and Hulk decides to stop playing around with him and just end the fight.

Anonymous

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Anonymous Sun 05 Apr 2020 06:47:10 No.114115526 Report

Quoted By: >>114116175

As I've said in the past, my favorite thing about Osborn is that he's a comic book supervillain with a surprisingly realistic level of mental illness. Norman isn't "criminally insane," he's genuinely mentally ill, to the point that it's an active hindrance to his own plans as a supervillain. He's so maniacally obsessed with Spider-Man that it actually turns him into a barely-functional drooler sometimes. It's kind of rare in a villain, and that's what I like about it. You don't always see crazy villains whose insanity is as much of a hindrance as a help.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 05 Apr 2020 07:08:39 No.114116000 Report

Quoted By:

whats with the jojo tier hair?

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 05 Apr 2020 07:21:23 No.114116175 Report

Quoted By: >>114116260 >>114116294

>>114115526
Any reason why he’s so obsessed with Peter? I’m familiar with the Ultimate version where he thinks Peter as a son since he “created” Spider-Man due to his Oz formula. Also, is Oz a reference to something? I can only think of the Wizard of Oz. Not sure how that ties with goblins.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 05 Apr 2020 07:27:36 No.114116260 Report

Quoted By:

>>114116175
I'm going to assume that "Oz" is just based on "Osborn" because Norman's an arrogant bastard. Also, it's green in color, and the Wizard lives in the Emerald City.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 05 Apr 2020 07:29:57 No.114116294 Report

Quoted By: >>114116394

>>114116175
Early on he saw Harry as a dissapointment and wished he was more scientifically-minded like Peter, and encouraged their friendship
After getting his memories back and remembering Peter is Spider-Man, he became paranoid that he'd hurt Harry to hurt him and get revenge for Gwen (while at the same time Peter was afraid that if Norman had regained his memories of being Goblin, Harry was near the top if the list of Peter's loved ones he might target next)
And when Harry developed a drug problem both blamed the other and
And Harry

Basically their relationship just kept getting more and more personal as comic history went on thanks to their shared connection with Harry

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 05 Apr 2020 07:39:51 No.114116394 Report

Quoted By: >>114118998

>>114116294
>he became paranoid that he'd hurt Harry to hurt him and get revenge for Gwen
Did Norman do something to Gwen before the bridge thing?

>And when Harry developed a drug problem both blamed the other
Who’s fault was it? I ask because whoever it was could be kindred‘s identity. I still think he’s Harry. I also found out that Marvel was going to have had Harry be revealed as the villain behind the Clone Saga before they ditched the idea. Don’t remember the villain’s name but he was some old dude in a breathing apparatus.

>wished he was more scientifically-minded like Peter
So that wasn’t just in the movies?

Anonymous

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Anonymous Sun 05 Apr 2020 07:41:19 No.114116416 Report

Quoted By:

>>114104384

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 05 Apr 2020 08:50:40 No.114117046 Report

Quoted By: >>114120023

>>114104696
Just look at Donald Trump. His idiot supporters bend over backwards to ignore or justify anything bad he's ever done.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 05 Apr 2020 08:58:49 No.114117101 Report

Quoted By:

>>114103773
^You'd think that the government and the media wouldn't be too happy about a guy who tried to overthrow the government
The government is full of people trying to overthrow the government. Name a regulatory body that isn't packed with people whose agenda is to undermine it.

Anonymous

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Anonymous Sun 05 Apr 2020 11:45:05 No.114118250 Report

Quoted By:

>>114104181
>>114105395
>>114106660

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 05 Apr 2020 13:16:28 No.114118998 Report

Quoted By:

>>114116394
>Did Norman do something to Gwen before the bridge thing?
Oboy

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 05 Apr 2020 13:53:57 No.114119376 Report

Quoted By:

Who is more scary Osborn or the Goblin?Its hard to think them as 1 person but for this circumstance he's a rare character that you don't know which personality is worse. I don't think any comic character can top him in that regard

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 05 Apr 2020 14:46:11 No.114119878 Report

Quoted By: >>114122710

>>114104384
I thought it was the Osbornization of Luthor. Norman was always corporate, Lex wasn’t so until the 80s.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 05 Apr 2020 14:50:25 No.114119925 Report

Quoted By: >>114120038

>>114103773
Didn't americans vote for Donald Trump?

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 05 Apr 2020 14:55:40 No.114119982 Report

Quoted By:

>>114107111
>Without having to throw a single punch
> As if they could show punching.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 05 Apr 2020 14:58:23 No.114120012 Report

Quoted By:

>>114104696
I actually like that Fisk and Norman have at some points gone full political.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 05 Apr 2020 14:59:25 No.114120023 Report

Quoted By: >>114120058

>>114117046
>Just look at Hillary and Obama. Their idiot supporters bend over backwards to ignore or justify anything bad they’ve ever done.
Shit, agreed.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 05 Apr 2020 15:00:28 No.114120038 Report

Quoted By:

>>114119925
>Didn't americans vote for Donald Trump?
>hurr durr muh Trump
Didn’t Europeans enslave the world?

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 05 Apr 2020 15:02:31 No.114120058 Report

Quoted By: >>114121138

>>114120023
Not really, I've seen Obama voters criticize him when he did stuff they didn't like (like his inability to get a better healthcare plan, all the drone stuff and continuing the Middle East clusterfuck). And most Hillary voters I know didn't really like her that much, they just didn't want Trump. Trump's base on the other hand is 100% all-in on the Trump train and adore him to levels I haven't seen in any politician in America in my lifetime.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 05 Apr 2020 15:23:24 No.114120284 Report

Quoted By:

>>114104181
I prefer Harry, norman has never topped death of gwen Stacy. dark avengers and thunderbolts could’ve used any other rich boy villain in his role

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 05 Apr 2020 16:12:54 No.114120954 Report

Quoted By: >>114121668

>>114103773
everything before Dark Reign went away because he wrote a book where he said he didn't do it, and some guys on a congressional committee believed it and put his lesser antics down to the wrong medication, so they made him head of SHIELD

seriously

fortunately it was the US-only version of SHIELD, not the international version of SHIELD that SHIELD sometimes is

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 05 Apr 2020 16:17:19 No.114121007 Report

Quoted By:

>>114115205
Absorbing man can wreck so much shit it’s not even funny, then only thing holding him back is literally “lmao he’s too dumb”

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 05 Apr 2020 16:19:38 No.114121035 Report

Quoted By: >>114121076

>>114104384
Fuck me I wish we had that instead of
>I was an evil psycho all along! No mental deterioration due to Goblin Serum My wife just abandoned our child one year after he was born LAMO
Fuck Slott.
I'm fine with Norman post resurrection just being the Green Goblin but going back and erasing his characterization is absolute fucking bullshit and Flanderizes him to the point of caricature.
You might as well say his middle name is Eobard and he traveled back in time to replace himself because he wasn't evil enough the first time around

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 05 Apr 2020 16:23:07 No.114121076 Report

Quoted By: >>114121153 >>114121185 >>114122655

>>114121035
Oh yeah, that retcon of Harry's mom being alive all along was fucking retarded. Why the hell didn't she pop up during the years in which everyone thought that Norman was dead?
Notice how since Slott's run ended, she hasn't been seen or mentioned since. Why the hell did Slott think it was a good idea to do this at the very end of his run and not actually explain anything?

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 05 Apr 2020 16:27:44 No.114121138 Report

Quoted By:

>>114120058
>Not really, I've seen Obama voters criticize him when he did stuff they didn't like (like his inability to get a better healthcare plan, all the drone stuff and continuing the Middle East clusterfuck).
Obama voters loved him and the media allowed him to do no wrong. Ever hear the “no scandal Presidency” meme?
> Trump's base on the other hand is 100% all-in on the Trump train and adore him to levels I haven't seen in any politician in America in my lifetime.
Again you were probably too young to remember Obama’s rise and lionization.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 05 Apr 2020 16:29:08 No.114121153 Report

Quoted By:

>>114121076
Because Slott is a fucking hack and has made more than enough shit ideas

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 05 Apr 2020 16:30:56 No.114121185 Report

Quoted By:

>>114121076
It's Slotts Sins Past.
With one decision he's ruined Norman FOREVER as a character.
We've had writers before try and say "Norman never cared for Harry all his sympathetic thought bubbles where fakes" the thing with those is that as anyone can tell you memory is malleable. All those incidents had deniability.
If the Goblin was what got resurrected when Norman died (even if he wasn't it could still be a lie) of course he'd say that he never cared but it doesn't change the original stories. This removes all ambiguity and deniability from now on everyone that kept Villainy Kreeping Norman more and more is solidified. Not only can't he go back to being a character after this (the chances of that were very slim) this makes it so he retroactively was never a character. All Norman is can be summed up in one line from now on "IT WAS ME PETER" over and over and over and over and nothing else.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 05 Apr 2020 17:09:46 No.114121668 Report

Quoted By:

>>114120954
And then after he went crazy and invaded Asgard after blowing up Soldier Field, he escaped from prison, joined up with Hydra, AIM and some more mass murderers cosplaying as Avengers, and then did a press conference where he claimed to be totally innocent, he just wants to save the world and deserves his old job back, and that the Avengers are just meanies. And the media fell for his bullshit AGAIN.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 05 Apr 2020 18:12:55 No.114122655 Report

Quoted By: >>114122722

>>114121076
Wait what? She's alive?

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 05 Apr 2020 18:16:38 No.114122710 Report

Quoted By:

>>114119878
Luthor in the 80's was made more like Kingpin. If you read the old Spider-Man comics that Osborn was in before he died, Ditko was slowly revealing him to be malicious (so you would've been right had Ditko continued the story), but after he left, Lee went with the direction that Osborn's criminal tendencies were caused by the serum. See >>114106498

That was how it was up until maybe the early 90's (I think JM DeMatteis retconned it so that Norman was abusive, but I don't remember if Norman was abusive after taking the serum or before that) but definitely after 1996 when they brought him back again and practically made him Luthor.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 05 Apr 2020 18:17:07 No.114122722 Report

Quoted By:

>>114122655
Yes, it's just as bullshit as it sounds.
>https://marvel.fandom.com/wiki/Emily_Lyman_(Earth-616)

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