/co/ - Comics & Cartoons » Thread #102608218

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Anonymous Mon 27 Aug 17:45:15 2018 No.102608218 View Reply Original Report

Quoted By: >>102608506 >>102608521 >>102608615 >>102608768 >>102609468 >>102609804 >>102610774 >>102611329 >>102611355 >>102611479 >>102611487 >>102614571

What's the current state of american comic book industry?

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 27 Aug 2018 17:53:14 No.102608342 Report

Quoted By: >>102608375 >>102608736 >>102611680

The market still is ridiculously small thanks to Marvel, DC and Diamond, but people working outside of that triumvirat do produce good stuff.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 27 Aug 2018 17:55:39 No.102608375 Report

Quoted By: >>102615947 >>102616076

>>102608342
Is there money in it if you don't belong to the triumvirat? Is there a demand for studios focused on quality? Or do theymake sales difficult?

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 27 Aug 2018 18:03:04 No.102608506 Report

Quoted By: >>102608593 >>102608595 >>102608736 >>102608747 >>102608939 >>102611861

>>102608218
Was this exchange supposed to endear me to the character or think she’s a psychotic cunt?
I know it’s hated here, but did normies like it? Perhaps the audience that liked America?

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 27 Aug 2018 18:04:32 No.102608521 Report

Quoted By: >>102608736

>>102608218
King and Bendis are killing DC. Aaron and those Tumblr artists/writers already killed Marvel. Kate Leth got promoted and is now working on cartoons despite that she is cancer.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 27 Aug 2018 18:08:56 No.102608593 Report

Quoted By: >>102611393 >>102612074 >>102612603

>>102608506

Most of /co/ liked it as well. Only a vocal minority of non-tumblrites had any problems

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 27 Aug 2018 18:09:02 No.102608595 Report

Quoted By:

>>102608506
It was supposed to endear you but it failed.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 27 Aug 2018 18:10:18 No.102608615 Report

Quoted By: >>102608736

>>102608218
>What's the current state of american comic book industry?
Basically flooding the market with several bimonthly ongoing featuring the same old heroes fighting the same old villains and having love stories with the same old partners.
Also bringing back every fucking old licence and super team from 30 to 50 years ago to please nostlagic fucks.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 27 Aug 2018 18:18:58 No.102608736 Report

Quoted By: >>102609788 >>102611346 >>102611486 >>102614414 >>102615745

>>102608615
>>102608521
>>102608506
>>102608342
All right so my gut feeling is that the industries pussy is wide open for the first quality cock it can get. If you know what I mean. If you don't: I mean that the big companies have their guards lowered, they are SJW infested and don't care about quality anymore because they got the movies (at least marvel doesn't). The first company that will get the trust of older comic book readers and perhaps the interest of the youth will replace the old boring shits. Kinda like CDProjektRed is doing, trying to replace the old AAA giants by being more quality focused, trustworthy and consumer friendly.

Is my feeling right?

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 27 Aug 2018 18:19:30 No.102608747 Report

Quoted By: >>102611485

>>102608506

It was Bendis poking fun at himself, which he is self-aware enough to do on occasion.

/co/ misinterpreted it as completely unironic, either deliberately because Bendis is a hack and fun to hate on, or accidentally because /co is stupid.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 27 Aug 2018 18:21:15 No.102608768 Report

Quoted By:

>>102608218
It's doing okay, and honestly has been growing steadily for the past decade. The big two have problems, but they're not as important as they were in the 90s (when they crashed the market) and indie comics are doing well on the shelves.

It's a pretty good time for smaller, self published creators to get out there and get noticed.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 27 Aug 2018 18:32:40 No.102608939 Report

Quoted By: >>102609454

>>102608506
No-one liked America.

More seriously, this sequence is fine, it's just the last three panels utterly ruin it by making a fun "precocious kid" exchange look like young Bruce Wayne staring down his parent's killer. Replace those with something else, and it's fixed.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 27 Aug 2018 19:07:10 No.102609454 Report

Quoted By: >>102612944

>>102608939
Critics LOVED America.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 27 Aug 2018 19:07:54 No.102609468 Report

Quoted By: >>102611342

>>102608218
Why does she always look like she wants to kill someone?

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 27 Aug 2018 19:29:59 No.102609788 Report

Quoted By:

>>102608736
>All right so my gut feeling is that the industries pussy is wide open for the first quality cock it can get

Quality in comics is really really really expensive and you´re up against people who get money blown up their nose by the biggest media conglomerate in the United States while also drawing rent from comic shops while having developed a business model that reduces production costs by lowering quality in favour of regular release frequencies.

Furthermore the physical market is really tiny, meaning that you´re going to bankrupt yourself trying to sell quality in such a market. I mean fuck, Arthesia moved to digital even though it´s the sort of series and the sort of quality that would make it a longseller in the European comic market.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 27 Aug 2018 19:30:52 No.102609804 Report

Quoted By:

>>102608218
Maybe with another edit of the frames
this could be the perfect state of this generation of milenials
Everything is done
Those who helped me are the bad guys for gift me status Quo

Anonymous

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Anonymous Mon 27 Aug 2018 20:37:57 No.102610774 Report

Quoted By: >>102610826 >>102610870 >>102610894 >>102611027 >>102611968

>>102608218
>What's the current state of american comic book industry?
Slowly but surely realigning towards tpb/graphic novels and away from pamphlets.

/Co/nservatives hate change and fear loss of privilage so naturally they think the sky is falling ( or they're being actively /co/nspired against ) while the reality is that capeshit floppies are Disco and this is the late 70's.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 27 Aug 2018 20:42:45 No.102610826 Report

Quoted By: >>102610944

>>102610774
>loss of privilage
What privileges are we talking about?

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 27 Aug 2018 20:46:34 No.102610870 Report

Quoted By:

>>102610774
This. Floppies are dying, not the medium. The industry will need to change, and weaker publishers won't survive the shift to trades. Neither will many comic shops, but fuck those relics anyway.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 27 Aug 2018 20:48:07 No.102610894 Report

Quoted By: >>102611375

>>102610774
>loss of privilege
Okay so we know this entire sentence is code for
>white people continue daring to exist how dare they like their own culture
But could you be more specific please?

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 27 Aug 2018 20:51:30 No.102610944 Report

Quoted By: >>102611027 >>102611072

>>102610826
>What privileges are we talking about?
The markets are shifting and your average 40 year old neckbeards are no longer being pandered too 99.9% of the time. You can see this with /co/ flipping their collective shit over Muh SJWs in capeshit comics, but that's nothing compared to the demographic shifts that are taking place OUTSIDE of the LCS market:

https://icv2.com/articles/news/view/30545/raina-telgemeier-has-over-3-5-million-graphic-novels-print

This is why books like Squirrel Girl and Ms Marvel are safe from cancellation despite low monthly sales and why they keep trying to find another variation ( Hellcat, Unstoppable Wasp, Moon Girl ).

Anonymous

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Anonymous Mon 27 Aug 2018 20:57:43 No.102611027 Report

Quoted By:

>>102610944
To be clear: look at this chart:
>>102610774
And understand that the reason "Graphic Novels" is outpacing "Comic Books" by 1/3 *isn't* because all those capeshitters are trade waiting Justice League or Avengers.

It's because things like image related which are sold via Scholastic Bookfair, BnN, and Amazon.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 27 Aug 2018 21:01:09 No.102611072 Report

Quoted By: >>102611153 >>102611292

>>102610944
How does the sales of Graphic Novels have anything to do with the sales of comics that 40 year old guys don't like?

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 27 Aug 2018 21:06:25 No.102611153 Report

Quoted By: >>102611224

>>102611072
Only that both their preferred format of the comics, their preferred storytelling and (hopefully) they themselves will all die soon.

Anonymous

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Anonymous Mon 27 Aug 2018 21:11:05 No.102611224 Report

Quoted By: >>102611419

>>102611153
>Graphic novels are switching audiences and succeeding
>Comics are switching audiences and failing
>Somehow this secures the stability of certain comic series
>Somehow this spells the death of thin comics as a medium even though it's still being propped up by novel sales
Sorry Anon, but it seems as if your argument is not well defined, nor holding a very clear purpose outside of saying you don't like certain people.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 27 Aug 2018 21:16:24 No.102611292 Report

Quoted By: >>102611331 >>102611405 >>102611418 >>102611422 >>102611507

>>102611072
/co/ tends to stop at the Diamond sales lists ( even though they also regularly bitch about Marble's over-shipping and other shenanigans and ignore the fact that even if the numbers aren't being gamed they're sales to STORES ( buy-in ) rather than sales to punters ( sell-through ).

Bookscan is a Point-of-Sale list ( they keep track of what people buy as they buy it at the checkout ).

Look at the list for 2017:
http://www.comicsbeat.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/03/EDIT-BookScan-17-Top-750.htm

Look at the NUMBER of UNITS for ACTUAL SALES ( here's the top 5 ):

1 419,318 DOG MAN UNLEASHED PILKEY DAV GRAPHIX SCHOLASTIC BOOKS 12/1/16 JUV008110 Comics & Graphic Novels / H Hardcover 9780545935203 $9.99 $4,188,986.82
2 339,703 DOG MAN: A TALE OF TWO KITTIES PILKEY DAV GRAPHIX SCHOLASTIC BOOKS 8/1/17 JUV008110 Comics & Graphic Novels / H Hardcover 9780545935210 $9.99 $3,393,632.97
3 311,275 DOG MAN PILKEY DAV GRAPHIX SCHOLASTIC BOOKS 8/1/16 JUV008110 Comics & Graphic Novels / H Hardcover 9780545581608 $9.99 $3,109,637.25
4 179,859 GHOSTS TELGEMEIER RAINA GRAPHIX SCHOLASTIC BOOKS 9/1/16 JUV008000 Comics & Graphic Novels / G Trade Paperback 9780545540629 $10.99 $1,976,650.41
5 177,989 DRAMA TELGEMEIER RAINA GRAPHIX SCHOLASTIC BOOKS 9/1/12 JUV008000 Comics & Graphic Novels / G Trade Paperback 9780545326995 $10.99 $1,956,099.11

Now look at the LCS "sales" via Diamond:
http://www.comichron.com/monthlycomicssales/2017.html

Again, here's the top 5:
1 1 Saga Vol. 7 $14.99 Image 47,775
2 15 Saga Vol. 1 $9.99 Image 29,415
3 6 Walking Dead Vol. 27 Whisperer War $14.99 Image 25,753
4 27 Paper Girls Vol. 1 $9.99 Image 24,056
5 4 Batman Vol. 1 I Am Gotham $16.99 DC 23,663

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 27 Aug 2018 21:19:15 No.102611329 Report

Quoted By:

>>102608218
Growing.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 27 Aug 2018 21:19:19 No.102611331 Report

Quoted By: >>102611376

>>102611292
What about them?
They don't even cater to the same audiences.
I don't see how the focus of a market shifting to Graphic Novels changes what's produced in the thin comic industry.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 27 Aug 2018 21:20:01 No.102611342 Report

Quoted By:

>>102609468
There's a reason she wanted to be Iron Man

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 27 Aug 2018 21:20:16 No.102611346 Report

Quoted By:

>>102608736
No, your feeling is wrong.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 27 Aug 2018 21:20:46 No.102611355 Report

Quoted By:

>>102608218
>What's the current state of american comic book industry?
Michigan

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 27 Aug 2018 21:22:12 No.102611375 Report

Quoted By:

>>102610894
>their own culture
Oh, jews are white again for the purpose of this thread I guess.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 27 Aug 2018 21:22:15 No.102611376 Report

Quoted By: >>102611470

>>102611331
>I didn't even bother to read what you posted let along the sources
>because I'm either trolling you or willfully blind
I figured, honestly. This is /Co/ntrarian Central, after all.

Anonymous

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Anonymous Mon 27 Aug 2018 21:23:34 No.102611393 Report

Quoted By: >>102611408 >>102611555 >>102613005

>>102608593
>Most of /co/ liked it

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 27 Aug 2018 21:24:22 No.102611405 Report

Quoted By: >>102611448

>>102611292
Did you go to an American School?
You do know that loads and loads of those graphic novel sales come from grants given to schools where they let kids spend like 30 dollars each to buy whatever scholastic published book they want to try and get these kids interested in reading, and most of them just choose the GNs.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 27 Aug 2018 21:24:33 No.102611408 Report

Quoted By:

>>102611393
How the fuck is that a time saver in terms of transportation?

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 27 Aug 2018 21:25:18 No.102611418 Report

Quoted By: >>102611469

>>102611292
It should be noted that Bookscan isn't entirely reliable, as comicsbeat always point out in their annual tilting at windmills report.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 27 Aug 2018 21:25:35 No.102611419 Report

Quoted By:

>>102611224
True, I don't like you.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 27 Aug 2018 21:25:46 No.102611422 Report

Quoted By: >>102614179

>>102611292
This is also why so many writers put a few years in at The Big Two and then shift to Image or other Creator Owned publishing deals:
http://kierongillen.tumblr.com/post/121756273497/market-maven-is-the-wicked-the-divine-in

TL;DR they make

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 27 Aug 2018 21:27:09 No.102611448 Report

Quoted By: >>102611483

>>102611405
>Further: the conventional wisdom is that the BookScan reporting is only the tip of the iceberg because the real market for kids books is going to be through things like a) Scholastic Book Fairs that run directly through elementary schools all over America, as well as b) libraries, both school and municipal, none of which report to BookScan.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 27 Aug 2018 21:28:27 No.102611469 Report

Quoted By:

>>102611418
Up until this past year he didn't have direct access:
http://www.comicsbeat.com/tilting-at-windmills-268-looking-at-bookscan-2017-and-this-time-its-certified/

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 27 Aug 2018 21:28:26 No.102611470 Report

Quoted By: >>102611490

>>102611376
>Doesn't list any connecting threads between the sales of one market and another
>Somehow things that the increased sales of children's novels makes a market that children don't even buy into change tactics and ignore those demographics that do buy into them
>Your sources are a single blog post and a bunc of sales listings
Where the FUCK is your thesis statement in any of this verbal mess you're pretending is an argument.

If you have any point I'd be perfectly glad to discuss it, but it seems at the moment that you just think one market must fail because another succeeds.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 27 Aug 2018 21:28:59 No.102611479 Report

Quoted By:

>>102608218
Comical

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 27 Aug 2018 21:29:28 No.102611483 Report

Quoted By: >>102611543

>>102611448
>Honestly thinks book fairs and book orders are the same thing.
Nice try, Euro.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 27 Aug 2018 21:29:36 No.102611485 Report

Quoted By:

>>102608747
>plabbit spacing
>defending garbage
like pottery

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 27 Aug 2018 21:29:44 No.102611486 Report

Quoted By: >>102611494

>>102608736
>hurdurdurr abloobloo waaah
ftfy

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 27 Aug 2018 21:30:01 No.102611487 Report

Quoted By:

>>102608218
>black people want to be oppressed

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 27 Aug 2018 21:30:09 No.102611490 Report

Quoted By: >>102611527 >>102611529

>>102611470
>hard numbers with dollars and units don't count because they don't fit my preferred narrative
Wew, lad.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 27 Aug 2018 21:30:28 No.102611494 Report

Quoted By:

>>102611486
>When you come to an argument with nothing but want to say something anyway.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 27 Aug 2018 21:31:19 No.102611507 Report

Quoted By: >>102611576

>>102611292
Bookstore wage slave checking in. Do you know where all those copies of Walking Dead and Saga are going? Pro tip: Not to the checkout line.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 27 Aug 2018 21:32:32 No.102611527 Report

Quoted By:

>>102611490
>seething nigger

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 27 Aug 2018 21:32:50 No.102611529 Report

Quoted By: >>102611581

>>102611490
>Still no thesis
What are you trying to prove, guy?
You can say that GNs are selling better than Comics every way you can think of but it's still not gonna show a correlation unless you bring up some threads connecting the fail of one industry to anothet's success.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 27 Aug 2018 21:33:54 No.102611543 Report

Quoted By:

>>102611483
Is there anything that shows that those orders do run through Bookscan? Since school libraries orders don't, it would seem weird.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 27 Aug 2018 21:34:48 No.102611555 Report

Quoted By:

>>102611393
With a bit of editing that could make a good >shadman gif

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 27 Aug 2018 21:36:51 No.102611576 Report

Quoted By: >>102611615

>>102611507
Those were in the LCS sales though.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 27 Aug 2018 21:37:15 No.102611581 Report

Quoted By: >>102611607

>>102611529
I don't really care one way or another, I just like Comics. Maybe the best way to look at sales numbers for GN's is to check the listings on Amazon. Units shipped to bookstores just mean that bored teens are stealing them and Barnes & Noble keeps restocking to get some more insurance claim ponzi scheme money at the end of the quarter.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 27 Aug 2018 21:39:10 No.102611607 Report

Quoted By: >>102611636

>>102611581
I sincerely doubt teenagers steal Raina Telgemeier books.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 27 Aug 2018 21:39:56 No.102611615 Report

Quoted By: >>102611638 >>102611746

>>102611576
Sure, It's still a book that gets bought at wholesale and sits on a shelf until it is pulped, stolen or discounted at a loss.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 27 Aug 2018 21:41:30 No.102611636 Report

Quoted By:

>>102611607
Nah, They certainly don't, which is why companies are all clamoring to get a piece of that particular market.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 27 Aug 2018 21:41:38 No.102611638 Report

Quoted By: >>102611690 >>102611771

>>102611615
Yes, I'm sure the entirety of comic books in book stores are run at a loss, because if there's one thing industries love it's losing money for shits and giggles.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 27 Aug 2018 21:44:53 No.102611680 Report

Quoted By: >>102611839

>>102608342
Pardon my ignorance, but who's Diamond and why do they matter?

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 27 Aug 2018 21:45:34 No.102611690 Report

Quoted By: >>102611747 >>102611808

>>102611638
No one loses money. We are instructed to let people steal, fill out a form detailing the suspected loss, confirm it to the best of our ability by counting the stock, and at the end of the quarter an insurance claim gets filed.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 27 Aug 2018 21:49:43 No.102611746 Report

Quoted By:

>>102611615
>no one actually buys those books
>which is why Saga vol 1 ( which first published in October of 2012 ) is the second hightest by units and the 15th highest by dollars for 2017
Were you dropped on your head as a child?

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 27 Aug 2018 21:49:51 No.102611747 Report

Quoted By: >>102611901

>>102611690
It's not because your manager is a shifty fuck that it's representative of industry policies or that it accounts for most of those numbers industry-wide. If this was an industry-wide practice they'd get found out in the first year of doing that shit, insurance companies aren't known to happily give out money.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 27 Aug 2018 21:52:02 No.102611771 Report

Quoted By: >>102611838 >>102612170

>>102611638
I'm not saying that no Graphic Novels get sold. They do, especially things from end caps when a promotion for a movie is going on and there is a discount being run. I am saying that things like those huge Walking Dead compendiums and Saga hardcovers that are consistently at the top of the re-order lists are stolen every single day. I've never seen a person bring one to a register, I've seen people steal them over and over.

Anonymous

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Anonymous Mon 27 Aug 2018 21:55:01 No.102611808 Report

Quoted By: >>102611951

>>102611690
>No one loses money.
Jesus wept.

Anonymous

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Anonymous Mon 27 Aug 2018 21:56:39 No.102611838 Report

Quoted By: >>102611970

>>102611771
Okay, but those actually don't top Bookscan's charts by any means, so it seems like a moot point to make in a discussion about whether those numbers are valid.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 27 Aug 2018 21:56:41 No.102611839 Report

Quoted By:

>>102611680
Comic distributor. They are the only one that services comic shops in 2018, making them a monopoly.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 27 Aug 2018 21:56:56 No.102611846 Report

Quoted By: >>102611872

OP here, this thread went to shit.

It's obvious the insustry is getting smaller at least in terms of physical books because comic books are mass closing.

Stop being delusional and talk with some sense ffs

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 27 Aug 2018 21:58:32 No.102611861 Report

Quoted By:

>>102608506
I really don't get why people took offense to this page, it feels really manufactured.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 27 Aug 2018 21:59:17 No.102611872 Report

Quoted By: >>102611947

>>102611846
>It's obvious the insustry is getting smaller at least in terms of physical books because comic books are mass closing.
That's not how it works, assuming you mean comicbook shops are mass closing.
>stop making sense and entertain my delusion!
No.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 27 Aug 2018 22:01:21 No.102611901 Report

Quoted By: >>102611953

>>102611747
It's not a policy dictated by my manager and no one else.I'm not sure how smaller chain stores deal with it (maybe they go out of business like Borders) Insurance companies do crack down if it is sickeningly blatant. It happened to Home Depot when they were over abusing the mechanic. Just as badly as Insurance hates paying out, they do love collecting from huge corporations. All of the theft (particularly of GN's) is deemed acceptable loss. We tried 2 years back to put the most commonly stolen ones behind the register bank and put a card and placeholder system on the shelf. No one was buying the GN's. It works for something like the 48 laws of Power (which nig nogs steal constantly, but normal people occasionally buy. buy) .

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 27 Aug 2018 22:04:36 No.102611947 Report

Quoted By: >>102611968

>>102611872
Give me proof comic book sales are not on a decline.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 27 Aug 2018 22:04:50 No.102611951 Report

Quoted By:

>>102611808
I worked at Borders as well. Roving packs of people who steal comics didn't have anything to do with them going Bankrupt.

Anonymous

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Anonymous Mon 27 Aug 2018 22:04:53 No.102611953 Report

Quoted By: >>102612027

>>102611901
Out of curiosity, did you ever have this book on the shelves? If yes, did anyone ever buy a copy?

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 27 Aug 2018 22:05:55 No.102611968 Report

Quoted By: >>102611985

>>102611947
>>102610774

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 27 Aug 2018 22:05:59 No.102611970 Report

Quoted By: >>102612007 >>102612125

>>102611838
Yes because those books get purchased. Now check out some figures for what ships as opposed to what sells.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 27 Aug 2018 22:07:06 No.102611985 Report

Quoted By: >>102612015

>>102611968
But it's 2018

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 27 Aug 2018 22:07:56 No.102612007 Report

Quoted By: >>102612154

>>102611970
But what the fuck does it matter, when the entire argument is that Bookscan only reports what is sold (contrary to LCS) and thus are solid numbers to rely on?
Who cares what ships?

Anonymous

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Anonymous Mon 27 Aug 2018 22:08:59 No.102612015 Report

Quoted By: >>102612058

>>102611985

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 27 Aug 2018 22:09:55 No.102612027 Report

Quoted By: >>102612047

>>102611953
I've never seen anyone buy that, no. We used to stock a System of a Down CD with the same title that always had to be re-ordered and was never purchased though. Same theory I guess.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 27 Aug 2018 22:11:09 No.102612047 Report

Quoted By: >>102612175

>>102612027
You'd be surprised how many people are bad at following instrctions.
>The book sold more than a quarter of a million copies between April and November 1971.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 27 Aug 2018 22:11:38 No.102612058 Report

Quoted By: >>102612088 >>102612093

>>102612015
the chart is not up to date

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 27 Aug 2018 22:12:47 No.102612074 Report

Quoted By:

>>102608593
kek

Anonymous

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Anonymous Mon 27 Aug 2018 22:14:01 No.102612088 Report

Quoted By: >>102612152

>>102612058
God I hope you aren't really this dumb or this desperate for (You)s.
You can't compare year-end numbers until the year ends.

Anonymous

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Anonymous Mon 27 Aug 2018 22:14:39 No.102612093 Report

Quoted By:

>>102612058
>that chart that you posted today doesn't have the yearly totals for the current year which won't actually exist for 5 months
We need Future Cow on the case, STAT!

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 27 Aug 2018 22:16:39 No.102612125 Report

Quoted By:

>>102611970
>the goal posts
>I shall move them
Every. Fucking. Time.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 27 Aug 2018 22:18:21 No.102612152 Report

Quoted By: >>102612247 >>102612391

>>102612088
So you don't have any up to date charts, plus between '16 and '17 it declined quite a lot so the trend is downwards. (some headlines say 6,5%)

So this chart obviously suggests a decline and unless you have info about an increse in sales in 2018 this pretty much proves my point that comic book sales are down.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 27 Aug 2018 22:18:52 No.102612154 Report

Quoted By: >>102612265

>>102612007
100 spastic shitposters that spew worthless numbers. I agree with you. Actual point of purchase sales figures are the only ones that matter. There is a reason people don't want to use those numbers. I was just telling a little anecdote about the "health" of the industry in regards to one segment I see a part of. You'll get people saying, sales of floppies are down but anon what about Digital/Bookstores/School book fairs etc. There is gaming going on in every facet of the industry.

Anonymous

View Same Google iqdb SauceNAO babs awkward.jpg, 46KiB, 575x561

Anonymous Mon 27 Aug 2018 22:19:47 No.102612170 Report

Quoted By: >>102612249

>>102611771
>n-no one actually buys those things
>we just keep throwing good money after bad because reasons
>also the earth is flat, although it might not appear that way to your untrained eye
>yeppers
This is just sad.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 27 Aug 2018 22:20:24 No.102612175 Report

Quoted By:

>>102612047
kek
Didn't the author go from hippy dippy communist to born again yuppie? maybe his audience just aged up with him.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 27 Aug 2018 22:25:02 No.102612247 Report

Quoted By: >>102612366

>>102612152
>you don't have any up to date charts
They don't exist because 2018 isn't over yet.

You don't do trends over 1 year. The industry is on a general upward trend since around 2011, but it did take a noticeable dip in 2017. It's not a trend as of yet, but if sales decline again in 2018 it will start to be. We'll have to wait and see.

> this pretty much proves my point that comic book sales are down.
Depends compared to when. 2017 sales were higher than 2011, 2012, 2013 and 2014 and only slightly lower than 2015. But yes, 2017 sales were lower than 2016.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 27 Aug 2018 22:25:24 No.102612249 Report

Quoted By:

>>102612170
I don't have a horse in this race. I have no vested interest in the success or failures of comic book publishers. I'm just telling a story. We have a huge GN/Manga section. People come in and browse it constantly. They pull up a chair at the Starbucks and read them. They steal them non stop. Very rarely do we sell any. We sell more comics related materials than comics. Maybe that is different at local comic book stores.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 27 Aug 2018 22:26:35 No.102612265 Report

Quoted By: >>102612447

>>102612154
Fair enough but honestly that's true of any industry, the best we can do is look at the numbers that are available to us.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 27 Aug 2018 22:32:33 No.102612366 Report

Quoted By: >>102612479

>>102612247
Not to jump to conclusion, that's why data from mid-year would be useful to determine if this is a trend or not. But right now it looks like a trend downwards until proven otherwise. A titanic industry like that doesn't just flip flop from year to year, by 6,5% without rhyme or reason.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 27 Aug 2018 22:34:15 No.102612391 Report

Quoted By: >>102612401 >>102612430

>>102612152
>between '16 and '17 it declined quite a lot so the trend is downwards. (some headlines say 6,5%)

More, actually:
>After five consecutive years of growth following DC's late 2011 "New 52" reboot, the Direct Market gave back a sizable portion of those gains in 2017. Retailer orders for comics, graphic novels, and magazines fell 10% to $522.25 million, the largest percentage drop seen since 1998. Sales volume remained above 2013 levels, however, and the market was considerably larger than it was during the previous market low.

However, there was a reason for that:
>Marvel's slow start to 2017 worsened in April as Secret Empire #0 released; while the market as a whole was down year-to-date, the market not including Marvel was up. Both Marvel and the market excluding Marvel were up in May, which, having an extra week than the same month the previous year, provided a welcome rebound. Those gains were given back in a weak June, which was up against the best month in 20 years.

DC and Marble had been trading off as market leaders with Nu53 and Rebirth both selling like gangbusters ... but where Marble had a homerun with Secret Wars they flubbed it with Civil War II ( and people were getting sick of the Non-Stop Big Events anyway ) so Secret Empire tanked ( relatively speaking ).

2016 had some of the best sales numbers in decades; but even with a decline we're still talking a 3rd strait year with sales over 1 Billion dollary-doos.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 27 Aug 2018 22:35:17 No.102612401 Report

Quoted By:

>>102612391
forgot the sauce:
http://www.comichron.com/monthlycomicssales/2017.html

Anonymous

View Same Google iqdb SauceNAO 2015 bookstore sales.png, 61KiB, 865x466

Anonymous Mon 27 Aug 2018 22:36:30 No.102612427 Report

Quoted By: >>102612463 >>102612511

Non capeshit books (many written by women and nonwhite individuals) are doing extremely well in bookstores.
And as Didio has said, most of the growth and growth potential is in bookstores.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 27 Aug 2018 22:36:44 No.102612430 Report

Quoted By:

>>102612391
Sure, sounds right.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 27 Aug 2018 22:37:56 No.102612447 Report

Quoted By: >>102612534 >>102612536

>>102612265
Sure, every industry has a motive for cooking the books. Financial success is good for morale and encourages creators to ply their trade. Comic fans are just really autistic about this stuff lately. It's gotten to the point of like early 2000's hip-hop where it was very important an artist sold a certain amount. The books that sell (from my own limited view) in chain bookstores are exactly the ones you'd imagine. Known evergreen titles and popular authors. Sometimes we can rope people in for movie tie-ins. A better way to gauge the health of the industry might just be to look at who is creating things. I often wonder about all the theft... Did someone really want that book or are they just stealing to resell it on Ebay or Amazon to pay for heroin.

Anonymous

View Same Google iqdb SauceNAO 2016 bookstore sales.png, 41KiB, 674x436

Anonymous Mon 27 Aug 2018 22:38:56 No.102612463 Report

Quoted By: >>102612496

>>102612427
In 2017 the bookstore sales were down for marvel, DC, and image, yet were up for scholastic, who has been #1 in bookstore sales since 2016 and will likely continue unless DC Ink and DC Zoom do great.

In 2017 The Killing Joke was the best selling capeshit book in bookstores.
And yet, it was #36 on the list.

Here are the top selling bookstore comics in 2017
$4,188,986.82 DOG MAN UNLEASHED
$3,393,632.97 DOG MAN: A TALE OF TWO KITTIES
$3,109,637.25 DOG MAN
$1,976,650.41 GHOSTS
$1,956,099.11 DRAMA
$1,930,863.75 MARCH (TRILOGY SLIPCASE SET)
$1,756,861.40 SMILE
$1,626,946.12 DANTDM: TRAYAURUS AND THE ENCH
$1,625,300.11 SISTERS
$1,445,127.74 AKIRA 35TH ANNIVERSARY BOX SET
$1,391,501.36 THE MISADVENTURES OF MAX CRUMB
$1,358,121.22 DORK DIARIES 1: TALES FROM A N
$1,353,044.84 THE BABY-SITTERS CLUB GRAPHIX
$1,271,927.65 KRISTY’S GREAT IDEA: FULL-COLO
$1,222,454.31 MY FAVORITE THING IS MONSTERS
$ 1,218,747.78 REAL FRIENDS
$1,122,532.88 THE WALKING DEAD COMPENDIUM VO
$1,112,079.09 DORK DIARIES 10: TALES FROM A
$1,096,252.08 AMULET BOX SET: BOOKS 1-7
$1,074,933.99 DOG MAN: THE EPIC COLLECTION:

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 27 Aug 2018 22:39:51 No.102612479 Report

Quoted By: >>102612515

>>102612366
Again that's not how you do trends, you do them over several years. Mid-year industry-wide numbers aren't compiled.
>A titanic industry
Anon, no. It's not a titanic industry, it's just barely over a billion dollar total, that's less than Disney makes with 1 (one) movie. The money difference between 2016 and 2017 is 70 million dollars, something that's anecdotal in actual titanic industries.
And hey, people did take notice and shuffled some things around. It's undetermined yet the long term results of those shuffles.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 27 Aug 2018 22:41:00 No.102612496 Report

Quoted By: >>102612522

>>102612463
Here are the top selling comic authors in 2017

PILKEY DAV $12,473,032.26
TELGEMEIER RAINA $9,640,046.81
KIRKMAN ROBERT $7,782,164.81
RUSSELL RACHEL REN $6,128,321.53
VAUGHAN BRIAN K. $4,263,973.08
PEIRCE LINCOLN $3,854,861.56
LEWIS JOHN $3,758,518.00
KIBUISHI KAZU $3,600,365.04
ISHIDA SUI $3,487,487.51
MOORE ALAN $2,926,106.54
JOHNS GEOFF $2,848,375.36
ISAYAMA HAJIME $2,835,506.03
HIMEKAWA AKIRA $2,813,826.66
KUSAKA HIDENORI $2,609,804.84
SNYDER SCOTT $2,561,484.56
GAIMAN NEIL $2,348,200.81
YANG GENE LUEN $2,173,307.74

Yeah not very many comic writers /co/ knows, because many are manga and children's comic writers

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 27 Aug 2018 22:41:44 No.102612511 Report

Quoted By:

>>102612427
It's incredible that Persepolis still sells this well year in year out. I mean it's pretty good but damn.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 27 Aug 2018 22:42:03 No.102612515 Report

Quoted By: >>102612598

>>102612479
>not a titanic industry
>dude lmao it's just over billion dollar total

I don't think you know how much a billion dollar is.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 27 Aug 2018 22:42:26 No.102612522 Report

Quoted By: >>102612556 >>102612624

>>102612496
The last half of the best selling comic writers are the ones filled with people /co/ knows
>BENDIS BRIAN MICHAEL $2,023,850.29
KISHIMOTO MASASHI $2,019,648.95
ODA EIICHIRO $2,007,041.74
TORIYAMA AKIRA $2,005,619.82
>GILLEN KIERON $1,903,718.41
OTOMO KATSUHIRO $1,830,704.87
SPIEGELMAN ART $1,824,282.84
SATRAPI MARJANE $1,806,897.10
>KING TOM $1,770,004.29
>MILLER FRANK $1,766,494.54
HORIKOSHI KOHEI $1,760,337.90
MASHIMA HIRO $1,642,954.64
>AARON JASON $1,633,896.36
DANTDM $1,626,946.12
OHBA TSUGUMI $1,593,829.64
>MILLAR MARK $1,537,664.19
MIURA KENTARO $1,534,563.02
>ENNIS GARTH $1,489,819.90
JAMIESON VICTORIA $1,468,903.29
ARAKI HIROHIKO $1,401,794.89
>MORRISON GRANT $1,368,636.11
MARTIN ANN M. $1,354,103.87
CHMAKOVA SVETLANA $1,353,975.00
HOLM JENNIFER L. $1,336,025.62
TOBIN PAUL $1,335,197.89
HALE SHANNON $1,330,538.53
ITO JUNJI $1,320,569.94
>LEMIRE JEFF $1,237,076.23
TOBOSO YANA $1,228,134.20
FERRIS EMIL $1,222,489.30
HALE NATHAN $1,211,376.48
O’MALLEY BRYAN LEE $1,177,564.44
>COATES TA-NEHISI $1,164,788.45
TAKAYA NATSUKI $1,156,821.32
ONE $1,137,241.62
>TAYLOR TOM $1,115,534.23
SIMPSON DANA $1,115,416.27
>SMITH JEFF $1,108,367.15
>RUCKA GREG $1,057,684.14
>WAID MARK $1,038,522.79
>HICKMAN JONATHAN $1,010,572.97
Still a lot of manga and children's writers

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 27 Aug 2018 22:43:35 No.102612534 Report

Quoted By: >>102612579 >>102612641 >>102612756 >>102615579

>>102612447
>Comic fans are just really autistic about this stuff lately
It's the current trend of "reduce any given subject/topic to an ( almost always idiotically false ) dichotomy between MY SIDE and THE OTHER SIDE and then try to WIN!"

So you get DC vs Marble autism; and Capeshit vs Indie autism; and on and on.

I mean: there were people REEEing about how Disney had paid for ratings on Rottentomatoes, ffs! Not only is it an aggregation site it's literally owned by Warner!

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 27 Aug 2018 22:43:44 No.102612536 Report

Quoted By: >>102612625

>>102612447
I used to shoplift as a teenager but only for stuff I wanted, or occasionally for a friend.
I don't think stealing books makes heroin-buying money.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 27 Aug 2018 22:45:08 No.102612556 Report

Quoted By: >>102612587

>>102612522
tl;dr
The big two are dying in favor of comics for children. It's why DC Ink and DC Zoom are a thing.

Scholastic
>Year / # of listed items / Percent Change / Total Unit Sold / Percent Change / Total $ Sold / Percent Change / Av. Sale per title / Av $ per title
>2015* 140 44.33% 1,449,296 71.26% $17,170,714 68.27% 10,352 $122,647.96
>2016* 131 -6.43% 1,940,760 33.91% $23,919,704 39.31% 14,815 $182,593.16
>2017 166 26.72% 2,823,345 45.55% $33,884,541 41.66% 17,008 $204,123.74

Scholastic is 1st yet again, third year in a row over DC when it comes to known bookstore sales, and this isn't even counting book fairs and libraries.

DC
>Year / # of Titles / Unit Sales / Dollar sales
>2010 96 648,403 $12,523,128
>2011 107 660,706 $13,083,378
>2012 104 688,870 $14,811,979
>2013 130 767,686 $15,620,981
>2014 131 931,239 $19,207,755
>2015* 119 1,074,304 $21,701,088
>2016* 117 1,234,047 $23,203,071
>2017 101 827,544 $15,234,525

Marvel
>2009 34 226,541 $5,019,216
>2010 33 206,273 $4,979,323
>2011 27 128,364 $3,303,496
>2012 32 141,145 $3,872,683
>2013 39 187,598 $4,229,242
>2014 53 342,706 $8,341,787
>2015* 63 478,076 $10,611,981
>2016* 60 555,715 $12,088,278
>2017 50 378,689 $7,840,198

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 27 Aug 2018 22:46:51 No.102612579 Report

Quoted By: >>102612604

>>102612534
>It's the current trend of "reduce any given subject/topic to an ( almost always idiotically false ) dichotomy between MY SIDE and THE OTHER SIDE and then try to WIN!"
How is that a current trend, bitch? That’s basic internet argument since day 1.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 27 Aug 2018 22:47:19 No.102612587 Report

Quoted By: >>102612741 >>102612859

>>102612556
All the relaunches, events, and crossovers work great short term and can get floppies up real quick, but it complicates things in the long term.

Even Didio said that Rebirth wasn't as successful as New 52. New 52 was the first time in a long time DC has done something like that and it worked for 4 years until DCYou when a bunch of C listers flopped. Rebirth worked for a few months and then it was back to normal.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 27 Aug 2018 22:47:57 No.102612598 Report

Quoted By: >>102612664 >>102612711

>>102612515
I don't think you do.
Porn, movies, TV, vydia, cars, air transport, hydrocarbons, those are titanic industries.
The American comic book market is a sloop compared to those actual Titanics.

Anonymous

View Same Google iqdb SauceNAO 1512263889037.jpg, 85KiB, 448x635

Anonymous Mon 27 Aug 2018 22:48:11 No.102612603 Report

Quoted By:

>>102608593
>Most of /co/ liked it as well

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 27 Aug 2018 22:48:26 No.102612604 Report

Quoted By:

>>102612579
>That’s basic internet argument since day 1.
No. No, it was not.
Eternal September was real.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 27 Aug 2018 22:49:41 No.102612624 Report

Quoted By: >>102612645 >>102612794

>>102612522
You forgot a bunch of capeshit writers in the first half, anon
>Moore
>Johns
>Snyder
>>Gaiman
>Yang

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 27 Aug 2018 22:49:42 No.102612625 Report

Quoted By:

>>102612536
I'm not saying it always does. I have an entire wall full of "misplaced" stock and so does almost every person I've worked with. I don't think it makes you a garbage human to steal books. I wonder at the motive sometimes because I'll see the same person steal a copy of Walking Dead Compendium 2 every time it gets put on the shelf. Some people probably legit want the thing and some people must have some more sinister motives.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 27 Aug 2018 22:50:41 No.102612641 Report

Quoted By: >>102612686

>>102612534
It's not owned by Warner, hasn't been in a couple of years. Still it's dumb though.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 27 Aug 2018 22:50:55 No.102612645 Report

Quoted By: >>102612794

>>102612624
Still aknowledged them by saying there aren't that many on the top half of the list
Figured in the second half I should highlight them since the first one was hard to read

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 27 Aug 2018 22:51:54 No.102612664 Report

Quoted By: >>102612722

>>102612598
No, an industry that makes a billion a year selling picture books is titanic.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 27 Aug 2018 22:53:28 No.102612686 Report

Quoted By:

>>102612641
>It's not owned by Warner, hasn't been in a couple of years.
I didn't know they'd been sold; but I was actually talking about a few years ago when the first Avengers movie broke 1billion and the /pol/lacks and fa/tv/irgins were losing their shit and screaming about how 'kino' Man of Steel was.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 27 Aug 2018 22:55:03 No.102612711 Report

Quoted By: >>102612783

>>102612598
You're feeding a troll.
Shtaap.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 27 Aug 2018 22:55:56 No.102612722 Report

Quoted By: >>102612811

>>102612664
No it isn't. That's not how words work.
The titanic was the biggest boat in the world, titans were literally gods but bigger and badder. Not everything that's over niche is titanic. It's literally 13 times smaller than the US bakery market.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 27 Aug 2018 22:57:05 No.102612741 Report

Quoted By: >>102612803 >>102612920

>>102612587
OH
And Image has a more unique problem

>2009 11 78,874 $1,210,094
>2010 22 289,044 $6,479,930
>2011 27 367,265 $8,670,917
>2012 33 701,050 $20,389,762
>2013 38 651,390 $19,371,269
>2014 47 691,804 $17,554,492
>2015 71 878,262 $22,587,672
>2016 72 908,655 $22,917,758
>2017 52 556,196 $11,092,960

They are being held up by TWD, similarly to how DC is held up by Batman.
However one of Image's main problems is the hiatuses, which not only let them lose money from lost floppies (5 floppies/year vs 9-10 floppies/year), but make it so a big selling book may only get one trade in a year instead of two. Now some years may make it so you only have one trade anyway since the second arc may not end until the end of the year, but it's the symptom of a larger problem.
This is further exacerbated by how Image vol 1s are $10. Great to get people to pick it up, which you can tell by how image often fills the top 20 comichron list. But then nobody picks up a vol 2, 3, etc, because it either doesn't come out or it's been over a year since the first one came out.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 27 Aug 2018 22:57:53 No.102612756 Report

Quoted By:

>>102612534
kek. Seems right man. I just wonder why these numbers get used for anything. I'm looking at that list and I see something like Jeff Lemire. I've never seen anyone buy one of his comics. I re-order Sweet Tooth over and over again though. I'm assuming that's because those are shrink wrapped books with nice covers and look like they are worth something. What are you supposed to glean from those numbers? Lemire sold a million dollars worth of books, the industry is all fine, we should put him on 15 ongoings stat.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 27 Aug 2018 22:59:30 No.102612783 Report

Quoted By:

>>102612711
I'm not a troll. A billion dollar industry based around intelectual property (very small expendeture) is absolutely giant and I'm pretty sure you people have no clue how much a billion dollar is.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 27 Aug 2018 23:00:07 No.102612794 Report

Quoted By: >>102612847

>>102612645
>>102612624

Out of all the best selling capeshit writers, only 1 of them has a monthly series. Really makes you think the industry is doing fine.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 27 Aug 2018 23:00:37 No.102612803 Report

Quoted By: >>102613062

>>102612741
Aftershock, should they ever get big sales, will probably be like this as well.

Animosity is one of the more popular books and yet if you look like the comic delay thread, there's an Animosity book on there like every other week. It's ridiculous.

Image tried fixing it by making it so a creative team needs to have 3 issues completed before they'll publish it, but that doesn't help the whole "get one arc out and then never finish the second" thing.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 27 Aug 2018 23:00:58 No.102612811 Report

Quoted By: >>102612826

>>102612722
Who would've thought that food sells.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 27 Aug 2018 23:02:01 No.102612826 Report

Quoted By: >>102612877

>>102612811
Everyone, that's completely besides the point. The bakery industry is nowhere near the largest either.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 27 Aug 2018 23:03:04 No.102612847 Report

Quoted By: >>102612941

>>102612794
Those are trade sales specifically in bookstores, "evergreen" titles always gonna sell more.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 27 Aug 2018 23:03:58 No.102612859 Report

Quoted By:

>>102612587
>Even Didio said that Rebirth wasn't as successful as New 52.
Nu52 was Didio's baby, Rebirth was literally the "we fucked shit up and we're sorry and will fix it" Nu52 apology tour. He might be a *tad* biased there.

But that doesn't mean he's entirely wrong either: while the problems with nu52 were real the way they answered them with Rebirth was mostly 100% nostalgia fagging and that was never going to work long term.

You can see the same thing is going to happen with Marvel: hooking MJ and Peter back together is just good for a brief boost with the relaunch but if the books mediocre the sales will drop back down again. Same with bringing back Thor, Iron Man, and Fantastic Four.

I mean: I used to read pretty much ALL THE X-BOOKS ... now I read one every now and again. I'd like to think that Extermination will fix the line ( or at least make it mostly readable again ), but I'm not holding my breath.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 27 Aug 2018 23:05:04 No.102612877 Report

Quoted By: >>102612962 >>102613011

>>102612826
I get your point that comic book industry is not the biggest but you have to realize that making a billion dollar a year while selling intellectual property is not something you see in the world. It is a freak of nature of an industry. And it's not even connected to the book industry.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 27 Aug 2018 23:07:46 No.102612920 Report

Quoted By:

>>102612741
>They are being held up by TWD
And Saga. THAT hiatus is REALLY gonna sting:
https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/heat-vision/saga-goes-indefinite-hiatus-image-comics-title-goes-dark-year-1129613

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 27 Aug 2018 23:08:50 No.102612941 Report

Quoted By: >>102612984

>>102612847
Yeah, I get it. I've been talking about it for an hour. There is a reason why those books are evergreen. They actually get sold. The big 2 can rectify this problem by paying talent. Talent produces more titles that sell and sell and never stop. It's not a thing they are seemingly interested in. They would rather pay someone with falafel and hope they can tap an imaginary market. Either way they make money because they don't have to pay creative anything. Not to invite shill accusations, but one of the companies kinda cares a bit more than the other.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 27 Aug 2018 23:09:15 No.102612944 Report

Quoted By:

>>102609454
Nope, critics loved the IDEA of America. The reviews for #1 were pretty much all statements saying stuff like "it's great that we finally have this Latina superheroine" and blah blah blah, but none of them actually addressed any of the content of the issue beyond the Hitler punching, and it was more of a statement of fact than actually analyzing why it happened.
After that, every subsequent review was more sobering until they simply stopped giving it attention.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 27 Aug 2018 23:10:24 No.102612962 Report

Quoted By: >>102613008

>>102612877
I posted several examples IP industries that make more than tens of times more than the comic industry. The book industry is one too (it's actually 120 times bigger than the comicbook market).
Maybe this comparison will strike better: the French comicbook market makes 500-600k million $ a year, with a pool of potential consumers that's about 5 times smaller than the US market.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 27 Aug 2018 23:11:26 No.102612984 Report

Quoted By: >>102613064

>>102612941
Really anon, you think Mark Millar's Civil War topped all Marvel bookstore sales thanks to talent and quality writing?

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 27 Aug 2018 23:12:42 No.102613005 Report

Quoted By:

>>102611393
You could go faster by just running.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 27 Aug 2018 23:12:47 No.102613008 Report

Quoted By:

>>102612962
Oh ok xd

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 27 Aug 2018 23:12:53 No.102613011 Report

Quoted By: >>102613034

>>102612877
I agree. It is a freak thing. All signs point to them understanding that putting out comics every month is the most annoying part of the job. Best to do it as cheaply as possible and not let people that are invested in it as a hobby know that they are cucks.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 27 Aug 2018 23:14:11 No.102613034 Report

Quoted By: >>102613108

>>102613011
The fuck you're talking about?

Anonymous

View Same Google iqdb SauceNAO Dwayne McDuffie.gif, 298KiB, 500x2188

Anonymous Mon 27 Aug 2018 23:16:02 No.102613062 Report

Quoted By: >>102613196 >>102613345

>>102612803
>that doesn't help the whole "get one arc out and then never finish the second" thing.
That's true of pretty much all comics, though ( see image related ). It's why I stopped reading Bendis after his X-Men run: nothing ever seemed to go anywhere.

Not that I'm disagreeing with you: one of the things you notice about the 'evergreen' titles like Watchmen or Dark Knight Returns is that they tell a fucking STORY with a BEGINNING a MIDDLE and an END.

But that's also been a trend for a while now: you get tv shows like LOST or X-Files that are just made up as they go along and eventually collapse under the weight of their own bullshit.

Or book series like Wheel of Time or Song of Ice and Fire ( aka Game of Thrones ) that either milk it forever or get longer and longer delays between volumes.

These days if I see the term "slow burn" in a review of any form of medium ( but especially comics or television ) I just assume they mean "meandering and unfocused mess that's going nowhere fast." and give it a hard pass.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 27 Aug 2018 23:16:16 No.102613064 Report

Quoted By: >>102613144 >>102613152

>>102612984
No, I don't. I watched them fly off the shelf (and actually get paid for) thanks to the magic of synergy. It's also a capital E event and written by an extremely popular author. There is no accounting for taste sometimes. Vanilla Ice sold 10 million records once upon a time.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 27 Aug 2018 23:19:15 No.102613108 Report

Quoted By: >>102613160

>>102613034
The most important aspect of Mainstream cape comics is not selling monthly cape comics. It's retaining a copyright and making sure there is something out there. The time of one of the Big 2 caring about the quality of their product is not the time we are in.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 27 Aug 2018 23:21:18 No.102613144 Report

Quoted By: >>102613233

>>102613064
>I watched them fly off the shelf (and actually get paid for) thanks to the magic of synergy.
And yet most of /co/ slaps on their tin-foil hats and REEEs every time they shit out another tie-in because they all know that SYNERGY DOESN'T WORK!*

*and, no, I'm not talking about it not working LONG TERM, chasing current trends almost never does.

Anonymous

View Same Google iqdb SauceNAO 91O08Du+D+L._SL1500_.jpg, 367KiB, 1185x1500

Anonymous Mon 27 Aug 2018 23:21:38 No.102613152 Report

Quoted By: >>102613311

>>102613064
Yeah, and look what topped sales for DC...

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 27 Aug 2018 23:21:57 No.102613160 Report

Quoted By: >>102613450

>>102613108
Yeah, I agree totally. It's a shame.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 27 Aug 2018 23:24:07 No.102613196 Report

Quoted By:

>>102613062
God I hate that shit. I can't even watch TV dramas anymore, it's all built on that shitty model even Netflix.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 27 Aug 2018 23:26:07 No.102613233 Report

Quoted By:

>>102613144
Most of /co/ doesn't go outside. It works for getting people outside the "normal" audience to spend 20 bucks on a graphic novel. It's the only thing I've ever seen that does. It probably does make people who read every month screech, and it probably isn't going to make anyone a repeat buyer until the next synergized product gets hawked, but yeah it does work in the short term.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 27 Aug 2018 23:30:14 No.102613311 Report

Quoted By:

>>102613152
I'm sure that it did. I've never seen anything sell as well as Alan Moore. Especially on DC properties, particularly that one. Batman in general sells better than anything. The stupid box sets with the masks get sold non stop.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 27 Aug 2018 23:32:14 No.102613345 Report

Quoted By: >>102613938

>>102613062
I'm talking about how there literally isn't a second arc, not just the stories are bad and go nowhere.

Like they get issues 1-5 out, then the first trade out, and then it's put on hiatus somewhere between issues 6-10 or there are massive breaks between issues 6-10. Bitch Planet, Manhattan Projects, Sex Criminals, etc.
It's one reason why Saga does so well. They are consistent in their release schedule. We'll have to see after their hiatus if it does as well as before since most hiatuses kill Image books a little.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 27 Aug 2018 23:37:44 No.102613450 Report

Quoted By: >>102613633 >>102613649

>>102613160
There has to be away to do it, just PAY creators. It's like they are playing chicken with talented or popular creative people. No one wants to see something they made turned into a billion dollar movie and end up with nothing but a thank you in the credits. Guarantee them a job as creative consultant if they are too hebrew to cough up a slice of the pie. You get the corporations passing the message down that it is the properties that sell a book not the artist/writer. Thats how you end up with the EiC bragging about how "profits" are up at the end of the year all the while the talent pool is a who's who of cringe. Something has to give, the industry is not gonna die, but people are just gonna not give a fuck.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 27 Aug 2018 23:47:47 No.102613633 Report

Quoted By:

>>102613450
I really thought things might get back on track. Geoff Johns and the Shogun are both guys that love comics. Even if I'm not a fan of their creative output it's not hard to tell. I don't know the extent of the cagefight that was going on at DC behind the scenes, and anything would be better than having Axel "I hate comics" Alonso in charge. My confidence that things will get better soon is not high. How do we fix the industry ?

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 27 Aug 2018 23:48:47 No.102613649 Report

Quoted By: >>102614006

>>102613450
I think it's just about time when in the comic industry the big 2 are gonna get outcompeted by CDPR of comic books and they're not gonna care enough to fight back. Like some studio will start making a fortune by selling extremely well written comics, maybe they'll innovate by having a special reader softwere that will give pictures 3D depth or maybe in some other way and the big 2 are not gonna give a shit until it's the year 2040, nobody cares about their IPs and the studio that replaced them in comic books is now making it's transition into a movie studio like MCU but fresh

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 28 Aug 2018 00:04:41 No.102613938 Report

Quoted By: >>102614022

>>102613345
>I'm talking about how there literally isn't a second arc, not just the stories are bad and go nowhere.
Oh, I know. I'm still bitter about Replica at Aftershock just 'ending' of a sudden with the last issue.

In fact that was the rule rather than the exception when Aftershock first launched: Replica, Third Eye, Strayer, and Fu Jitsu all did the "this isn't really an ending, or is even explicitly a cliffhanger" thing with zero follow up.

But unless you wait for a series to finish before ever picking it up ( so ... series waiting, rather than trade waiting? ) you have the risk of author changes or lack of interest or whatever.

Clean Room at Vertigo was really interesting and then had an ass-pull "let's just end this here: ending and Nailbiter at Image basically went full Red John ( referencing the tv show The Mentalist's incredibly underwhelming "whelp, we need to have someone actually be the bad guy for the Big Reveal ... let's just toss a dart at a wall and go with that" bullshit after multiple seasons of build up ).

Black Hammer won a few Eisners when it started out and the last issue of Age of Doom ( the most recent side mini ) had them wake up ... because the whole thing with the mystery town was just a Virtual Reality dealio.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 28 Aug 2018 00:08:46 No.102614006 Report

Quoted By: >>102614112 >>102614179

>>102613649
Not to go political, I don't support either side of the thing...But Comicsgaters actually grasp this side of it. It's mostly paying customers that want something they think is worth buying. They've been roped into buying terrible concepts on kickstarter to help pay some dickheads child support bills, but they aren't wrong. If a few of my favorite authors/artists noped out and struck off on their own I would be fucking ecstatic. It almost happened in the mid 80's with Moore and Miller and it did happen in the 90's with Image. Image proceeded to internalize all the bad behavior of the big 2 and set about figuring out ways to divorce creators that weren't the founders from their shekels. I do like a ton of Image books from the last decade but it's not the same thing as a big rich tapestry of a shared universe with alot of moving parts. You may be right though and the big breakthrough will be on the technical end of it.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 28 Aug 2018 00:09:31 No.102614022 Report

Quoted By: >>102614268

>>102613938
All the Aftershock books have bad endings because most were meant to be ongoings and sell too bad to continue lol
I think Animosity is their longest one and it's getting 17 or 18 issues
Babyteeth will probably get to 15 or 20

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 28 Aug 2018 00:14:52 No.102614112 Report

Quoted By: >>102614357

>>102614006
It would be dreamy if that happened. I'm starving for something like a new wave of quality comics

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 28 Aug 2018 00:19:01 No.102614179 Report

Quoted By: >>102614316

>>102614006
>set about figuring out ways to divorce creators that weren't the founders from their shekels

Yeah, that's not how that works. At all.

See:
>>102611422
From the link no one read:
>I’ll give you some really basic rule of thumbs for indie comic commentary:

>Anything selling stably over 10k in single issues is a cause for celebration and joy. The creators are almost certainly extremely happy.

>If you’re selling over (ooh) 12k, you’re probably making more than either of the big two would pay you, unless you’re one of the very biggest names.

>If you’re selling anything near 20k, you probably have to buy drinks for your friends.

>And in a real way, if Phonogram settled around 6k back in 2006, I suspect Jamie and I would have settled into doing it for another 40 or 50 issues.

And, that's not counting trades:
>On a personal level, we’ve sold over 50,000 copies of the first WicDiv Trade. Last I looked at Amazon’s stats we were selling about 1000 a month via book shops alone (i.e. not including comic shops, which is usually more.) The orders for 12 were 22k. The initial orders of the second trade are up 33% on the first trade. Realistically, we were hoping to stabilise at around 13k, and we’d have been enormously happy with that, even if we weren’t selling trades. Which we are. WicDiv is a ludicrous success, by far the biggest thing in our entire career. And thanks to everyone’s support in achieving that.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 28 Aug 2018 00:24:44 No.102614268 Report

Quoted By:

>>102614022
>most were meant to be ongoings and sell too bad to continue
Yeah, that was my whole point!

They don't do a single issue that has a story and setup or a single arc of 2 -3 issues; they set up shit ( and take their sweet time doing it ) and then, maybe, eventually, they go somewhere with it.

So you can't even "trade wait" because the trade might just be 6 issues of 'set up' you have to wait for the whole thing to be done like Chew or Invincible or whatever.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 28 Aug 2018 00:28:06 No.102614316 Report

Quoted By: >>102614455

>>102614179
Yeah I'm not talking about their current practices. More like the first 10 years before Mcfarlane retired to run a hockey team. I don't give a fuck about the intricacies of how much money some half queer bong makes off his Trannies LARPing as mythological figures LARPing as popstars book makes. if you dig it, you dig it. Image is not going to scratch the itch for the thing I'm talking about.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 28 Aug 2018 00:30:55 No.102614357 Report

Quoted By: >>102614422

>>102614112
I'm doing my part bro.Back my gofundme. The Robo-guana shared universe is a go. It's got everything you need. Tiddays, Arm's getting ripped off, META, Buff dudes doing dude things, Hypercrisis, well designed leotards all of that shit. Help make it happen.

Anonymous

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Anonymous Tue 28 Aug 2018 00:34:34 No.102614414 Report

Quoted By: >>102614471

>>102608736
>they are SJW infested and don't care about quality anymore because they got the movies

>marvel's ceo donated millions to trump's campaign
>Dc's Dan Didio infamously yelling at a batgirl for asking for more female lead comics
>filled with SJW's

If you stopped watching youtubers and actually payed attention to the industry you'd realize you are being a retard.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 28 Aug 2018 00:34:52 No.102614422 Report

Quoted By:

>>102614357
I probably won't back you since I'm counting pennies right now but give me the address, I'll check it out and remember it for the future.

Anonymous

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Anonymous Tue 28 Aug 2018 00:36:16 No.102614455 Report

Quoted By: >>102614712

>>102614316
>Image is not going to scratch the itch for the thing I'm talking about.
No, but I don't see how that sorta Big Shared Universe will ever happen again. What kind of moron would sell most or ALL of their ownership on a work-for-hire gig when they can see how much dosh these things bring in via merch and vidya??

Outside of DC and Marble you're looking at things like Black Hammer, Astro City, and Invincible.

At least until/unless something changes with the way copyright works and I wouldn't hold my breath on that happening any time soon. In fact I fully expect yet another extension in the near future.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 28 Aug 2018 00:37:40 No.102614471 Report

Quoted By: >>102614528

>>102614414
What you said doesn't disprove there's too many SJW in the companies though. This just proves there are 2 non-SJW between the two of them xd

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 28 Aug 2018 00:41:24 No.102614528 Report

Quoted By: >>102614597

>>102614471
literally 90% of sjw comics you faggots constantly posted have been cancelled and writers have yet to take on another project.

They have no weight or influence over the big 2, cept maybe bendis.

Anonymous

View Same Google iqdb SauceNAO immense disappointment.png, 135KiB, 575x175

Anonymous Tue 28 Aug 2018 00:43:56 No.102614571 Report

Quoted By: >>102614617 >>102614666

>>102608218
>they pump out SJW garbage like this but not horny pregnant Anne Frank armed with a sniper rifle shooting Nazis from rooftops during the day and having loads shot into her by Peter at night

Fuck this timeline

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 28 Aug 2018 00:45:39 No.102614597 Report

Quoted By: >>102614743

>>102614528
>literally 90% of sjw comics you faggots constantly posted have been cancelled and writers hav
they are still there I don't see them getting spectacularly thrown out despite fucking up constantly

Anonymous

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Anonymous Tue 28 Aug 2018 00:46:32 No.102614617 Report

Quoted By: >>102614689

>>102614571
>but not horny pregnant Anne Frank armed with a sniper rifle shooting Nazis from rooftops during the day and having loads shot into her by Peter at night

Have you're parent gotten you diagnosed?

Anonymous

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Anonymous Tue 28 Aug 2018 00:50:03 No.102614666 Report

Quoted By:

>>102614571
based af

Anonymous

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Anonymous Tue 28 Aug 2018 00:51:41 No.102614689 Report

Quoted By:

>>102614617

No because both my parents are vastly more severely mentally ill than I am.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 28 Aug 2018 00:53:36 No.102614712 Report

Quoted By:

>>102614455
I'm not saying it wouldn't be tricky, But I don't think it is impossible. Image certainly could have pulled it off when those 5 left (wildstorm might be something close to what I'm envisioning). It was apparent that what they wanted was a factory to sell original artwork.When I say they learned from the masters at Marvel take a read at some of those court transcripts from the Gaiman lawsuit or recall what happened with the other authors who took that big ass check to work on Spawn way back in the day. These where the same guys who supposedly cared about creators right lel. I'm thinking of something like what if the guys who worked on 52 had formed something similar to Image. Maybe it was because Image was 5 artists instead of 5 authors that it never went in that direction. take 4 authors, 4 artists and 1 good Editor who all have a big rolodex, and a halfway decent idea of how to treat talent and let them see what happens. Let some Silicon valley autismo case fund it.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 28 Aug 2018 00:55:28 No.102614743 Report

Quoted By: >>102614881

>>102614597
They are constantly failing upward. Rewarded with new #1's and Eisner awards. Don't forget 9 star reviews from "Journalists".

Anonymous

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Anonymous Tue 28 Aug 2018 01:03:20 No.102614881 Report

Quoted By: >>102615326

>>102614743
>They are constantly failing upward
That's just silly, anon. It's a business they woudn't just ...
https://www.cbr.com/chelsea-cain-marvel-vision-comic/

Whelp.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 28 Aug 2018 01:26:27 No.102615326 Report

Quoted By: >>102615579

>>102614881
The lack of self awareness is at an all time high on both sides. I'm not backing a shitty EVS robot frog story for 50 bucks, I must be a "SJW". I don't understand how Brian "Mags" Visaggio can score #1's at both companies plus ongoings at 3 or 4 others all the while being less talented than the people who post fanfic on /co/. I must be a Nazi. I must be a centrist for thinking both sides are cancer. I'm certainly a retarded faggot for caring about comics in 2018.

Anonymous

View Same Google iqdb SauceNAO marvel trolls for sales.png, 462KiB, 607x775

Anonymous Tue 28 Aug 2018 01:41:30 No.102615579 Report

Quoted By: >>102615596

>>102615326
>I'm certainly a retarded faggot for caring about comics in 2018.
Pretty much:
>>102612534
Seems like it's outrage farming all the way down anymore.

But don't forget that those #1 sales are STILL sales and while it's perfectly rational to point out the housing bubble crash last decade ( or, even closer to home, the comic book speculator implosion of the 90s ); it's also completely IRRATIONAL to expect anything to change as long as image related seems to work.

That image is a screencap of an exchange that took place back when Bendis was writing Avengers and I just don't see how you can look at the whole Batrimony fiasco and think things have changed even slightly with DC "leaking" the spoiler to their own comic the week before it came out.

Anonymous

View Same Google iqdb SauceNAO same as it ever was.png, 205KiB, 868x616

Anonymous Tue 28 Aug 2018 01:42:41 No.102615596 Report

Quoted By:

>>102615579
And those same reboot/relaunch/rehash/retread tactics are paying off, at least in the short term ( yet again ):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nL4Z2IeAGGk

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 28 Aug 2018 01:43:34 No.102615614 Report

Quoted By:

>175 posts
>34 unique posters

I'm sure this was a great thread.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 28 Aug 2018 01:50:24 No.102615745 Report

Quoted By:

>>102608736
But CDProjekt is literally making an SJW-infested Deus Ex clone now, so your metaphor is dated

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 28 Aug 2018 02:01:04 No.102615947 Report

Quoted By:

>>102608375
There are a lot more companies than most know about. Only problem is that you have to go out of your way to find them. I mostly buy DC and Marvel but I've got Boom, Valiant, Hard Case, and etc.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 28 Aug 2018 02:07:49 No.102616076 Report

Quoted By:

>>102608375
>Is there money in it if you don't belong to the triumvirat?
I'd have to assume that Hellboy's been at Dark Horse all these years ( and several movies and cartoons ) for a reason.

And new companies like Lion's Forge and Aftershock keep being created so someone must be seeing a profit somewhere along the line.

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