/sci/ - Science & Math » Thread #10662500

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The world's biggest problem

Anonymous Wed 22 May 00:40:24 2019 No.10662500 View Reply Original Report

Quoted By: >>10663012 >>10663082 >>10663207 >>10663748 >>10665211

Everyone on /sci/ needs to understand what psychopathy is and how bad it is for our world.
It's important to note that psychopathy is distinct from sociopathy/anti-social personality disorder, but is connected to them; psychopathy being the "greater" of the two.

>main info
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4059069/
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4321752/

https://www.activistpost.com/2011/01/pathocracy-tyranny-at-hand-of.html

>documentary about it and it's effects on society
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TB0k7wBzXPY&ab_channel=TZMAustralia [Embed]

>psychopath traits
https://www.decision-making-confidence.com/hare-psychopathy-checklist.html
(pic related)
>Each of the 20 items in the PCL-R is scored on a three-point scale, with a rating of 0 if it does not apply at all, 1 if there is a partial match or mixed information, and 2 if there is a reasonably good match to the offender. This is said to be ideally done through a face-to-face interview together with supporting information on lifetime behavior (e.g. from case files), but is also done based only on file information. It can take up to three hours to collect and review the information.

>Out of a maximum score of 40, the cut-off for the label of psychopathy is 30 in the United States and 25 in the United Kingdom. A cut-off score of 25 is also sometimes used for research purposes.
People with no criminal backgrounds normally score around 5. Many non-psychopathic criminal offenders score around 22.

>It is believed to be genetic
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2242349/
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2933872/

somewhat related:
>amygdalas
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3811089/

>why amygdalas matter
https://www.anonymousconservative.com/blog/touching-the-raw-amygdala-an-analysis-of-liberal-debate-tactics-preface/

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 22 May 2019 06:44:13 No.10663012 Report

Quoted By: >>10663033 >>10663058 >>10663080 >>10663192 >>10663288 >>10665636 >>10668542

>>10662500
"Psychopaths" (actually compensated Aspergers; the somewhat less functional adaptations being schizoids, with a failed adaptation resulting in schizotypy) are better than other people, there would be no wars and almost no crime in a society of all psychopaths. The fact that it's virtually impossible to live as a person like that in the west is the only problem.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 22 May 2019 06:47:52 No.10663019 Report

Quoted By:

Wasn't there a study that found that most CEOs are Psychopaths or maybe it was sociopaths, I was one of those two.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 22 May 2019 06:59:19 No.10663033 Report

Quoted By: >>10663047 >>10663050 >>10663060 >>10665326

>>10663012
It's only the west's rabid intolerance of any individual differences what makes most of such people dysfunctional; they live perfectly ordinary and productive livses in societies that are more tolerant, like China or Nigeria.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 22 May 2019 07:11:58 No.10663047 Report

Quoted By:

>>10663033
A nail that sticks out gets hammered down. The west ignores the nails, and if it manages to hammer itself down, it gets pulled out and everybody around gets warned it's a bad nail that's pretending to fit in.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 22 May 2019 07:13:00 No.10663050 Report

Quoted By:

>>10663033
A nail that sticks out gets hammered down they say in the east. The west ignores the nail, and if it manages to hammer itself down, it gets pulled back out and everybody around gets warned it's a bad nail that's pretending to fit in.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 22 May 2019 07:20:11 No.10663058 Report

Quoted By: >>10663068

>>10663012
>its because of the west
No, it's because they are incapable of feeling empathy. They pose a threat to themselves and forms of life.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 22 May 2019 07:21:12 No.10663060 Report

Quoted By:

>>10663033
Fucking kek

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 22 May 2019 07:27:51 No.10663068 Report

Quoted By: >>10670246

>>10663058
The west calls "empathy" the ability to mirror facial expressions which psychopaths indeed cannot/don't do. They are 100% capable of empathy in the sense that other cultures expect from people.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 22 May 2019 07:35:32 No.10663080 Report

Quoted By: >>10663091 >>10663098 >>10663135 >>10671570

>>10663012
>"Psychopaths" (actually compensated Aspergers;

Psychopathy is very different from Aspergers.
- Psychopaths have very good understanding of other peoples inner life, but are comnpletely carefree from their suffering. Aspies on the other hand have problems understanding other people, but when they do they care deeply.
- Psychopaths have underdeveloped emotions and don't feel fear, remorse, shame etc. but they are good at fooling other people into believing they experience them. Aspies feel all kinds of emotions, often to an excess, but they have a lot of difficulty with showing or expressing it.

>[Psychopaths] are better than other people, there would be no wars and almost no crime in a society of all psychopaths.
Psycopaths are overrepresented amongs convicts, and the crimes they do harm society much more than your average criminal.

>The fact that it's virtually impossible to live as a person like that in the west is the only problem.
Modern capitalist system rewards psychopathy. This is probably the best time in history to be a psychopath.

Psychopathy is the great pathology of the psyche. It's devastating for society. Don't let the psychopaths in thread fool you into beliving otherwise. Don't let them shift the blame to the more unfortunate.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 22 May 2019 07:37:03 No.10663082 Report

Quoted By: >>10663089

>>10662500

but most psychopaths don't even know they are psychopaths and live crimefree lives.

you seem to misunderstand something, neurologically the psychopaths are immune from jelousy, envy, resentment, depression since they lack the neurological machinery to feel those kind of emotions.

the probability of you committing a crime is far higher, even when corrected for relative populations, if you're a neurotypical rather if you're a psychopath.

imagine if you had a population lacking, or with an extremed dulled, sense of impulsive desire for emotional rewards, that's what psychopaths are.
they appear callous and selfish, that's the perception of neurotypicals, but only because they function via logical paradigms and are less influenced by empathy, which is not necessarily a great thing to let go unrestrained.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 22 May 2019 07:43:14 No.10663089 Report

Quoted By: >>10663095

>>10663082
>but most psychopaths don't even know they are psychopaths and live crimefree lives.
Source?
> the probability of you committing a crime is far higher, even when corrected for relative populations, if you're a neurotypical rather if you're a psychopath
Not what the stats say. It says the opposite.

> extremed dulled, sense of impulsive desire for emotional rewards, that's what psychopaths are
No, psychopaths usually struggle with impulsivity which contributes to the horrible things they do for kicks and relief from boredom.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 22 May 2019 07:45:30 No.10663091 Report

Quoted By: >>10663109

>>10663080
>- Psychopaths have very good understanding of other peoples inner life, but are comnpletely carefree from their suffering. Aspies on the other hand have problems understanding other people, but when they do they care deeply.

Yes, as they learned to understand them. The lack of care comes with it, as you start to perceive other people as too evil, corrupt, or jsut too alien to care about them more than other forms of life.

> Psychopaths have underdeveloped emotions and don't feel fear, remorse, shame etc. but they are good at fooling other people into believing they experience them. Aspies feel all kinds of emotions, often to an excess, but they have a lot of difficulty with showing or expressing it.

Both have a different kind of emotions that are perceived as "fake" by other westerners. Other cultures expect them and even have the vocabulary for them:

https://mandarincorner.org/survival-chinese-30-words-to-express-feelings-and-emotions/

>Psycopaths are overrepresented amongs convicts, and the crimes they do harm society much more than your average criminal.

They are not allowed to live a normal life and many are falsely convicted.

>Modern capitalist system rewards psychopathy. This is probably the best time in history to be a psychopath.

No it doesn't. It's possibly a turning point towards a better kind of society, which many other cultures underwent possibly thousands of years ago, or perhaps the individualist west is an aberration that was never meant to exist.

>Psychopathy is the great pathology of the psyche. It's devastating for society. Don't let the psychopaths in thread fool you into beliving otherwise. Don't let them shift the blame to the more unfortunate.

How could a mentally ill person do that? Surely it must be the other way round and it's all the others who are mentally ill.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 22 May 2019 07:48:18 No.10663095 Report

Quoted By: >>10663109 >>10663418 >>10666094

>>10663089
>No, psychopaths usually struggle with impulsivity which contributes to the horrible things they do for kicks and relief from boredom.

that's because the diagnostic tools for psychopathy mix other diseases with primary psychopathy like antisocial personality disorder (ASPD) , narcissistic personality disorder (NPD), sociopathy, schizotypical traits, etc

>Not what the stats say. It says the opposite.

that's precisely why the stats are misleading, if you load the relative importance of, let's say, having an ASPD vs primary psychopathy in committing crime, the ASPD loads more on the likelihood of being a delinquent.

To make another interesting case, higher testosterone (meaning people under 25 years of age) and lower social ranking in males is strongly correlated with crime, that's one of the best predictors together with ASPD to see if you're gonna end up in jail.
Remove those traits and you can notice other traits like psychopathy, if you don't you're mixing up stuff.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 22 May 2019 07:50:53 No.10663098 Report

Quoted By: >>10663109 >>10666094

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 22 May 2019 07:58:07 No.10663109 Report

Quoted By: >>10663118 >>10663120

>>10663091
>>10663095
>>10663098

> t. normalizing, lying and blame-shifting psychopath

Anonymous

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Anonymous Wed 22 May 2019 08:02:15 No.10663118 Report

Quoted By: >>10665239 >>10666094

>>10663109
Cont.

See you deleted that last part. Glad I caught it.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 22 May 2019 08:04:07 No.10663120 Report

Quoted By:

>>10663109

it's 2 different people you're mixing.
I was only reporting the current point of view in psychiatry about psychopathy

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 22 May 2019 08:13:13 No.10663135 Report

Quoted By: >>10663171 >>10663183 >>10663672 >>10665219

>>10663080
>Psychopathy is the great pathology of the psyche. It's devastating for society. Don't let the psychopaths in thread fool you into beliving otherwise. Don't let them shift the blame to the more unfortunate.

It's devastating to other people, who are mentally ill. How could it be the reverse? You're essentially saying that a single mentally ill person can make often thousands, even millions of mentally healthy people do things they wouldn't do otherwise and what they didn't want to do. How could that possibly be? Why would a mentally healty person got influenced so easily by somebody who is clearly mentally ill? Surely it must be other way around and it's all the others who are mentally ill for being so easily manipulated it's actually hard to avoid confusing them accidentally.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 22 May 2019 08:30:46 No.10663171 Report

Quoted By: >>10663179 >>10663182

>>10663135

> It's devastating to other people, who are mentally ill.
Not only are psychopaths devastating to the mentally ill, but also to healthy people which contract mental illness from interactions with psychopaths which manipulate and abuse them.

> How could it be the reverse?
Wat
> You're essentially saying that a single mentally ill person can make often thousands, even millions of mentally healthy people do things they wouldn't do otherwise and what they didn't want to do. How could that possibly be?
That's not really what I was saying, but if you say so :p
>Why would a mentally healty person got influenced so easily by somebody who is clearly mentally ill?
Because psychopaths are predators and master manipulators. They love to prey on the mentally weak too. Inb4: "But then they are doing us a favor taking out the weak" which would be a stereotypic psychopathic justification of horrible immoral acts.
>Surely it must be other way around and it's all the others who are mentally ill for being so easily manipulated it's actually hard to avoid confusing them accidentally.
Yeah, surely. Nothing wrong with being a completely ruthless predator that takes cold heartedly fools and takes advantage of the general kindsness and prosocial nature of normal human beings.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 22 May 2019 08:38:32 No.10663179 Report

Quoted By: >>10663257 >>10665299

>>10663171
No, they way it works is that you abuse other's antisocial tendencies. It's impossible to abuse other person's kindnes. But you can abuse other person's want to hurt somebody else by giving them a reason to jutify the violence, for example, or abuse other person's greed by making them think they can scam you, while you actually scam them. Things like that. If somebody honestly wants to cooperate, there is nothing to abuse, you're probably want to cooperate with them as well, so that the person keeps cooperating with you in the future.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 22 May 2019 08:41:07 No.10663182 Report

Quoted By: >>10663257

>>10663171

you're thinking that psychopaths are always and only predators, that is a false analogy, since primary psychopathy is rare and manipulative behaviour is not exclusively a psychopatic trait.
Also because you probably don't even know what manipulation is, because it is more widespread than you think.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 22 May 2019 08:42:52 No.10663183 Report

Quoted By: >>10663198

>>10663135
It's not that people do things they don't want to. "normal" people usually trust others and psychopaths usually prey on that trust and fuck people over. Be it relationships, favours, etc. Also most empires were built by the lead of psychopaths since they had no moral issues stomping out entire nations in order to gain even more power. I'm pretty sure a large percentage of the powers at be today are also psychopaths.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 22 May 2019 08:50:02 No.10663192 Report

Quoted By: >>10663208

>>10663012
>The fact that it's virtually impossible to live as a person like that in the west is the only problem.
Yep, decency, ethics and values are cumbersome obstacles. Luckily there's always some asshole who's just read Ayn Rand to give oxygen to the "It's actually superior to be a predatory parasite" meme.

A world of psychopaths would spend half it's energy and talent on the struggle for dominance, half! They'd all live in fortified caves wearing rags. Science can't happen where there's an absence of all values except the upper hand.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 22 May 2019 08:53:38 No.10663198 Report

Quoted By:

>>10663183
>I'm pretty sure a large percentage of the powers at be today are also psychopaths.
Nah, but a large percentage of stockbrokers sure are. In an environment where risk-taking pays off, where caring about others is a drawback, psychos take the lead naturally. Rich psychos bending laws, cultures and societies are a thing, but they aren't the norm. Eventually they are revealed as the monster scum they are.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 22 May 2019 09:03:15 No.10663207 Report

Quoted By:

>>10662500
i guess most normies are borderline psychopaths then

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 22 May 2019 09:04:12 No.10663208 Report

Quoted By: >>10663216

>>10663192
>Yep, decency, ethics and values are cumbersome obstacles.
Yes, they actually are.

>A world of psychopaths would spend half it's energy and talent on the struggle for dominance, half! They'd all live in fortified caves wearing rags. Science can't happen where there's an absence of all values except the upper hand.

No. In a world of psychopaths, everybody would try to position him or herself in such a way that it would be a net loss for others if they were harmed, and such a society would be led by those who people fear they die or disappear, rather than those they fear they may come.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 22 May 2019 09:10:40 No.10663216 Report

Quoted By: >>10663223

>>10663208
>and such a society would be led by those who people fear they die or disappear, rather than those they fear they may come

You ain't no psycho but a retard

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 22 May 2019 09:17:52 No.10663223 Report

Quoted By: >>10663247

>>10663216
Maybe you are. Explain why it's wrong if you think so.

Anonymous

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Anonymous Wed 22 May 2019 09:27:42 No.10663237 Report

Quoted By: >>10664148

anybody ever read this really interesting book

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 22 May 2019 09:34:54 No.10663247 Report

Quoted By: >>10663279 >>10663289 >>10663291

>>10663223
Because you are thinking like a traditional economist who doesn't take into account behavioral economics and thinks the world works perfectly according to his mathematical model, whereas people are in reality affected by cognitive biases.

The premise in your idea is that psychos are perfectly rational and that they know at every moment every information available in the world.

First, psychos don't act rationally as edgy movies may let you think. Most of them have unstable behaviors : substance abuse, risk-seeking behavior. They're not le Machiavellian politician - most are absolute trash, they don't even seek power and only live for the thrill of adrenaline. But let's talk about the few, power-seeking ones :
>people fear they die or disappear
If you seek power, why would you fear that the ones who are above you die or disappear ? On the contrary, it's an opportunity to climb the ladder.
In short, psychos do not have any interest in order or stability.

Second, even if there was somehow some perfect hierarchy where people had no interest to see the ones above them die or disappear, how would they be aware of such hierarchy ? The human mind is blinded by the limited available information at its disposal, so there's no way people could be aware that it is in their best interest not to try to change anything in the current social hierarchy.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 22 May 2019 09:40:24 No.10663257 Report

Quoted By: >>10663264 >>10663289 >>10663291

>>10663179
>No, they way it works is that you abuse other's antisocial tendencies. It's impossible to abuse other person's kindnes.
Wtf, this is just stupid.
>you can abuse other person's want to hurt somebody else by giving them a reason to jutify the violence, for example, or abuse other person's greed by making them think they can scam you, while you actually scam them.
True
> If somebody honestly wants to cooperate, there is nothing to abuse
False, cooperative relations are very nice arenas for manipulation and abuse.
> you're probably want to cooperate with them as well, so that the person keeps cooperating with you in the future.
Yes, but that doesn't mean that the cooperation is not or will not progress into deception, exploitation, blackmail, double binds etc.

>>10663182
>you're thinking that psychopaths are always and only predators, that is a false analogy
No. When I say that psychopaths are predators I do not imply that all predators are psychopaths.
>since primary psychopathy is rare
Doesn't invalidate my point
> manipulative behaviour is not exclusively a psychopatic trait.
True
> Also because you probably don't even know what manipulation is, because it is more widespread than you think.
I am pretty redpilled on manipulation. Psychopaths are the absolute worst though. There's vanilla everyday normie manipulation which is inhibited by empathy, guilt, morality and fear of repercussions (sometimes exacerbated by certain delusions). And then there's totally unhinged and shameless highly skilled psychopathic manipulation.

Anonymous

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Anonymous Wed 22 May 2019 09:45:43 No.10663262 Report

Quoted By:

Strange answers to the psychopath test - Jon Ronson
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xYemnKEKx0c

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 22 May 2019 09:50:07 No.10663264 Report

Quoted By: >>10663303

>>10663257
>There's vanilla everyday normie manipulation

you seem to be in a bit of a misunderstanding here, I think.

Manipulation is a shared trait of many psychological disorders, most of those need a typical neurological structure to manifest.

You need to think about manipulation in a goal reaching setting, the skill of the manipulator is dependant upon lots of factors, one of them is indeed a lack of care for the manipulated subject.

the interesting thing is that the only difference between manipulation and learning is the objective of the behaviour which you are modifying.

the thing is that the measure of the damage caused by the manipulation is a sum of differnt factors, like the skill and the motivation of the manipulator, the psychological vulnerability and often faulty blindness of the manipulated, the lenght of the process itself and so on.

Don't think that only psychopaths are able to not care about the well being of other people, everybody is able to do that and does it in a certain measure, because it would be impossible to live in a group if everybody had to win and nobody had to lose.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 22 May 2019 10:04:05 No.10663279 Report

Quoted By:

>>10663247
>The premise in your idea is that psychos are perfectly rational and that they know at every moment every information available in the world.

It doesn't require perfect information.

>First, psychos don't act rationally as edgy movies may let you think. Most of them have unstable behaviors : substance abuse, risk-seeking behavior.

It's you who bases your information on "edgy" movies. Psychopaths are not unstable (though I guess it might be used as intentionally a strategy by some) and have no capacity to get addicted to substances.

>If you seek power, why would you fear that the ones who are above you die or disappear ? On the contrary, it's an opportunity to climb the ladder.

Sich peopel would never become an authority in the first place. A psychopath would never start doing thinks for somebody with no expectation of getting anything back simply because they have the right looking face and call themselves an authority. Authority would come primarily by being indispensable at some activity and the inherent threat of losing what they're providing, so that nobody can remove them to climb the ladder exactly because they would lose themselves and face the rage of others who also lost whatever they provided; they only way to take the lead would be to provide something even more beneficial than what is provided by the current leader.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 22 May 2019 10:09:09 No.10663288 Report

Quoted By:

>>10663012
found a psychopath

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 22 May 2019 10:09:55 No.10663289 Report

Quoted By:

>>10663257
You would be onyl hurting yourself by hurting somebody who is willing to cooperate wtih you.

>>10663247
>The premise in your idea is that psychos are perfectly rational and that they know at every moment every information available in the world.

It doesn't require perfect information.

>First, psychos don't act rationally as edgy movies may let you think. Most of them have unstable behaviors : substance abuse, risk-seeking behavior.

It's you who bases your information on "edgy" movies. Psychopaths are not unstable (though I guess it might be used intentionally as a strategy by some) and have no capacity to get addicted to substances.

>If you seek power, why would you fear that the ones who are above you die or disappear ? On the contrary, it's an opportunity to climb the ladder.

Sich peopel would never become an authority in the first place. A psychopath would never start doing things for somebody with no expectation of getting anything back simply because they have the right looking face and call themselves an authority. Authority would come primarily by being indispensable at some activity and the inherent threat of losing what they're providing, so that nobody can remove them to climb the ladder exactly because they would lose themselves and face the rage of others who also lost whatever they provided; they only way to take the lead would be to provide something even more beneficial than what is provided by the current leader.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 22 May 2019 10:11:05 No.10663291 Report

Quoted By: >>10663319

>>10663257
You would be only hurting yourself by hurting somebody who is willing to cooperate with you.

>>10663247
>The premise in your idea is that psychos are perfectly rational and that they know at every moment every information available in the world.

It doesn't require perfect information.

>First, psychos don't act rationally as edgy movies may let you think. Most of them have unstable behaviors : substance abuse, risk-seeking behavior.

It's you who bases your information on "edgy" movies. Psychopaths are not unstable (though I guess it might be used intentionally as a strategy by some) and have no capacity to get addicted to substances.

>If you seek power, why would you fear that the ones who are above you die or disappear ? On the contrary, it's an opportunity to climb the ladder.

Such peopel would never become an authority in the first place. A psychopath would never start doing things for somebody with no expectation of getting anything back simply because they have the right looking face and call themselves an authority. Authority would come primarily by being indispensable at some activity and the inherent threat of losing what they're providing, so that nobody can remove them to climb the ladder exactly because they would lose themselves and face the rage of others who also lost whatever they provided; the only way to take the lead would be to provide something even more beneficial than what is provided by the current leader.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 22 May 2019 10:21:07 No.10663303 Report

Quoted By: >>10663309

>>10663264
Very interesting post.
>Manipulation is a shared trait of many psychological disorders, most of those need a typical neurological structure to manifest.
I agree. Autists tend to not have sufficient faculties to become proficient at manipulation. If they try to manipulate it's usually easily spotted (at least by neurotypicals). It's a part of what makes it a disability.
>the interesting thing is that the only difference between manipulation and learning is the objective of the behaviour which you are modifying.
Perceptive.
>Don't think that only psychopaths are able to not care about the well being of other people, everybody is able to do that and does it in a certain measure
True. Psychopaths often have an inability to care about the well being of anybody. That's quite distinct from the rest of us.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 22 May 2019 10:28:41 No.10663309 Report

Quoted By:

>>10663303
>I agree. Autists tend to not have sufficient faculties to become proficient at manipulation. If they try to manipulate it's usually easily spotted (at least by neurotypicals). It's a part of what makes it a disability.

Not really true. Neuroptypicals almost always seem to think that autists are lying, even if they are telling the truth. Which, indeed makes it a disability.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 22 May 2019 10:42:20 No.10663319 Report

Quoted By: >>10663339

>>10663291
>You would be only hurting yourself by hurting somebody who is willing to cooperate with you.
Not necessarily. Very situational. You can hurt/exploit someone without them realizing, and sometimes it does not matter if they realize. Sometimes the victim is completely powerless to do anything about it and nobody even believes them when they talk about what happened. From the victims perspective there isn't necessarily much to gain from a smear campaign as they fear repercussions from the abuser.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 22 May 2019 10:55:06 No.10663339 Report

Quoted By: >>10663356

>>10663319
I don't mean because others would hate you for it. If they cooperate, they provide something to you, it doesn't make sense to hurt them in the same way it doesn't make sense to hurt a tree that gives you fruit - in fact you might want to water it when there is drought that would hurt the tree or protect it from pests and pathogens.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 22 May 2019 11:16:33 No.10663356 Report

Quoted By:

>>10663339
Nice analogy you've got there. The relationship between a fruit tree and a gardener is not symbiotic. Humans breeds fruit trees and take complete control over most things regarding their existence. Fruit trees are at the mercy of their gardeners.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 22 May 2019 11:46:32 No.10663378 Report

Quoted By: >>10663418

Isn't there a selection bias since non-impulsive and productive/beneficial psychopaths would never be diagnosed at the same rate as criminal ones?

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 22 May 2019 12:17:23 No.10663418 Report

Quoted By:

>>10663378

yes, that's why I was pointing at the errors in the diagnostic parameters

>>10663095

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 22 May 2019 15:59:49 No.10663672 Report

Quoted By: >>10663706 >>10663724

>>10663135
>a single mentally ill person can make often thousands, even millions of mentally healthy people do things they wouldn't do otherwise and what they didn't want to do. How could that possibly be?

manipulation, mainly
but psychopaths damage the people around them, and damaged people don't act the way they should, which can damage more people still
and even if you don't get directly affected by a psychopath, you still live in a society where they exist and people don't really trust each other because of it, not to mention all the corruption/crime/waste/etc that does nobody any good

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 22 May 2019 16:16:19 No.10663706 Report

Quoted By:

>>10663672
>damaged people don't act the way they should
How is that different from "mentally ill"?

>people don't really trust each other because of it

Not really. Psychopaths will lie to you if they have a reason for it and you are not close enough to value your trust. It's the neurotypical people who are to blame for the lack of trust, as they will lie jsut to harm others "as a joke".

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 22 May 2019 16:24:47 No.10663724 Report

Quoted By: >>10664050 >>10665219

>>10663672
>damaged people don't act the way they should
How is that different from "mentally ill"?

>people don't really trust each other because of it

Not really. It's easy to guess when psychopaths may lie to you. It's the neurotypical people who are to blame for the lack of trust, as they will lie just to harm others "as a joke", which is completely unpredictable.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 22 May 2019 16:32:27 No.10663748 Report

Quoted By: >>10663845 >>10664051

>>10662500
Psychopathy comes from the consequences of the modern world you fucking idiot. There weren't any rapists or murders in the past before the world become tecno-dystopia. You want to solve psychopathy - work on the cause and not on effect.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 22 May 2019 17:17:47 No.10663845 Report

Quoted By: >>10663884

>>10663748
yeah, nah, it's genetic
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2242349/
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2933872/
as you would see in the OP, if you could read

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 22 May 2019 17:32:25 No.10663884 Report

Quoted By:

>>10663845
>https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2242349/

they prove that there's a significant genetic component, not that the environmental component is zero, and that's not a surprise

>https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2933872/

that's not even a study, more like a blogpost

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 22 May 2019 18:55:24 No.10664050 Report

Quoted By: >>10664295

>>10663724
>How is that different from "mentally ill"?
The difference is that it was psychopath that caused the mental illness in the first place.
> It's easy to guess when psychopaths may lie to you.
No, it's not easy to spot psychopathic lying. You're right that psychopathic lying is very rational in regard to what they are trying to achieve, thus it would be easy if
1) You know he/she is a psychopath
2) You know their goals
Problem is that you rarely know these things. On the first encounter with a psychopath I suspect most people have no idea what going on and they think they are completely normal.

>It's the neurotypical people who are to blame for the lack of trust
Well if there are psychopaths wandering around it kinda makes sense to be a little wary sometimes.
> they will lie just to harm others "as a joke", which is completely unpredictable.
This sounds like a type of bullying that often happen in a group setting, which is usually milder and of a different character than stereotypic psychopathic behavior. Psychopaths do bully a lot, but they also do things that would get them kicked out of any group. It can be that bad.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 22 May 2019 18:55:39 No.10664051 Report

Quoted By: >>10664097

>>10663748
>There weren't any rapists or murders in the past
lol

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 22 May 2019 19:21:30 No.10664097 Report

Quoted By: >>10664340 >>10664382

>>10664051
Tell me something, fren. If you live in a small tribe, with healthy relationships between its members why would you go and murder a bunch of people for no reason? (defending your tribe or acquiring resources is a justified reason). Why would you be interested in a degeneracy such as lolis or being gay? Pedophiles, murderers, rapists, lesbians, gays, trans, mass shooters are all byproducts of current civilization, be it stress, overcrowding, personal sense of powerlessness or alienation. Don't believe the lies THEY tell you about the past.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 22 May 2019 19:44:44 No.10664148 Report

Quoted By:

>>10663237
Fuck off Jon

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 22 May 2019 21:03:20 No.10664295 Report

Quoted By: >>10665000 >>10665219

>>10664050
This is complete nonsenee. Even to me as an autistic person, the lies of psychopaths are obvious; neurotypicals are completely unpredictable you can never know if they are telling the truth or not.

Anonymous

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Anonymous Wed 22 May 2019 21:18:02 No.10664333 Report

Quoted By:

Oh god, they're in the thread

Oh god oh god oh geez fuck

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 22 May 2019 21:21:53 No.10664340 Report

Quoted By:

>>10664097
Even if it were true that tribes didn't have rapists and murders (they did), there's more to the past than basic human tribes. Your claim is absurd

>Why would you be interested in...
People don't just consider all the options and rationlise a decision to choose, some people don't consciously choose what they prefer. It doesn't excuse things like pedophillia, we all have the power to choose not to act on any preferences we have.

Tell me anon, what is it exactly that defines what is 'degenerate' behaviour? Is it just something personal and subjective you made up or is it backed by rigour?

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 22 May 2019 21:46:18 No.10664382 Report

Quoted By: >>10664400

>>10664097
Do you wear glasses?

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 22 May 2019 21:54:11 No.10664400 Report

Quoted By:

>>10664382
People living in tribes don't wear glasses; myopia is a modern disease.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 23 May 2019 04:04:01 No.10665000 Report

Quoted By: >>10665089

>>10664295
>the lies of psychopaths are obvious
No, they routinely fool people. This wouldn't be the case if it was obvious. They are even known to fool therapists that know about their condition too.
>neurotypicals are completely unpredictable you can never know if they are telling the truth or not.
It's generally easier to spot neurotypical lying as the aren't as skilled as psychopaths. NTs get nervous and feel shame. And they are less likely to lie about big stuff for dubious reasons.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 23 May 2019 05:11:06 No.10665089 Report

Quoted By: >>10665121 >>10665219

>>10665000
The lies of psychopaths are obvious, because they lie for obvious, predictable reasons. The lies of NTs are incomprehensible, because they lie either for incomprehensible reasons, or no reason at all. N o reason why nervousness should have anything to do with it, if you think you can see on people when they are lying to you, you have schizophrenia and what you see has nothing to do with if the person is actually lying or not.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 23 May 2019 05:33:53 No.10665121 Report

Quoted By: >>10665181

>>10665089
> just repeats himself
> says understanding psychopathic highly skilled lying is EZ-PZ
> calls you a schizophrenic for understanding the lying of less competent liars like NTs

Holy mother of kek

And when an my NT friends calls me pretty and that my hair looks nice today, I know it's a lie, because I look like shit from all the sleepless nights I had contemplating the total mindfuckery and deception my psychopathic former friend brought upon me. I am not exactly sure what your deal is, but something smells fishy.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 23 May 2019 06:08:36 No.10665181 Report

Quoted By: >>10665201 >>10665219

>>10665121
The only thing that feels fishy is your schizophrenia. You cannot see when people lie, it isn't possible. You are hallucinating if you think you can see it.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 23 May 2019 06:29:06 No.10665201 Report

Quoted By: >>10668557

>>10665181
I did not claim to "see" when people lie. You catch people lying when there are contradictions etc. You are so full of shit. Trying to convince someone that they have schizophrenia is exactly the type of thing a psychopath would try to do.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 23 May 2019 06:39:56 No.10665211 Report

Quoted By: >>10665346

>>10662500
Aren't psychopaths just a rival subspecies of homo sapiens sapiens at this point? They look like us, blend with us, depend on us, yet aren't like us. Kinda reminiscent of the whole supposed cromagnon vs. neanderthal conflict, don't you think?

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 23 May 2019 06:43:21 No.10665214 Report

Quoted By: >>10665219 >>10665250 >>10665252

But to be fair, you have a point. A psychopath would usually always try to lie when there's something to gain from it. It's like clockwork, just as your responses in this thread. Never back down. Play the power game instead of the logic game. It's much easier to spot it text than in person. I remember you from the "Autism reptile brain discussion" thread. Here's one of your posts
>Their goals and the ways they try to reach them are just different; you know you would make different choices, but their choices still make sense and you can understand why they made them and you know what you can expect from them. Neurotypicals on the other hand are more or less completely incomprehensible, their behavior seems more or less completely random, like if they were mentally ill people.
>like if they were mentally ill people.
A psychopath would never admit that it they are the one that's causing the trouble. They shift the blame on everybody else. They are incapable of feeling guilt and shame. Surely it's normal peoples fault for being so stupid not to enveil psychopaths obvious lies. That funny dude.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 23 May 2019 06:48:51 No.10665219 Report

Quoted By: >>10665239

>>10665214
Cont.

Aimed at
>>10663135
>>10663724
>>10664295
>>10665089
>>10665181

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 23 May 2019 07:06:08 No.10665239 Report

Quoted By:

>>10665219

Picrel >>10663118

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 23 May 2019 07:14:33 No.10665250 Report

Quoted By:

>>10665214
You can't seriously think npsychopaths are worse than neurotypical people. Psychopaths at least haveno morals; neurotypicals know morals, but use them as a tool of competition. With NT's it's contant mind games to make themselves look better than they are and others make look worse than they are, in addition to persistent attempts to get some information frome you without getting anything back. Psychopaths are at least capable of being reasonable if they chose to; NTs are more or less constantly looking for opportunities to hurt each other, which is exactly why the instigations of psychopaths are so successful.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 23 May 2019 07:16:04 No.10665252 Report

Quoted By: >>10665255 >>10665256 >>10665299

>>10665214 #
You can't seriously think npsychopaths are worse than neurotypical people. Psychopaths at least haveno morals; neurotypicals know morals, but use them as a tool of competition, it's contant mind games to make themselves look better than they are and others make look worse than they are, in addition to persistent attempts to get some information from you without giving anything back. Psychopaths are at least capable of being reasonable if they chose to; NTs are more or less constantly looking for opportunities to hurt each other, which is exactly why the instigations of psychopaths are so successful

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 23 May 2019 07:20:20 No.10665255 Report

Quoted By: >>10665346 >>10668922 >>10668944

>>10665252
>neurotypicals know morals, but use them as a tool of competition

What are "morals" ? Values ? A way to do, or not to do things ? Morals do not really exist anymore, at least in developed countries. Everything that isn't forbidden by the law is moral.

>it's constant mind games to make themselves look better than they are and others make look worse than they are

Being hypocritical is something everyone has in common

Honestly there's no difference between NTs and psychos, the psychos are just tryhards

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 23 May 2019 07:21:14 No.10665256 Report

Quoted By: >>10665259 >>10665308

>>10665252
(since NT's alwas want to hurt others, so all it takes is to give them an opportunity to justify hurting somebody else and they will do it with what seems like intense pleasure. I think they like it even more than they like sex.)

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 23 May 2019 07:23:54 No.10665259 Report

Quoted By: >>10665292 >>10665293

>>10665256
>so all it takes is to give them an opportunity to justify hurting somebody else and they will do it with what seems like intense pleasure

Were you bullied in your youth ?

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 23 May 2019 07:53:21 No.10665292 Report

Quoted By: >>10665305

>>10665259
Bullying is one of those things, yes. But there many others, from bussiness, politics, to wars, genocides, etc.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 23 May 2019 07:54:40 No.10665293 Report

Quoted By: >>10665308

>>10665259
I suspect even Ted Bundy might have been framed, because NT hate nice people who refuse to cooperate in hurting others.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 23 May 2019 07:58:04 No.10665299 Report

Quoted By: >>10665616

>>10665252
> Projecting
> Blame-shifting
> Convoluting
Psychopaths might adopt abstract ethical reasoning because they have no innate sense of morality. This might keep them in check or it might help them justify horrible behavior. It's not clear cut. Normal people have an innate sense or morality influenced by their ability to emphatize with other people.
> neurotypicals know morals, but use them as a tool of competition, it's contant mind games to make themselves look better than they are and others make look worse than they are
Yes, this is the case, but it's not as bad as you wan't to make it sound. At least this often is a dynamic that motivates people to do good. It can hack psychopaths into being prosocial as well.
> Psychopaths are at least capable of being reasonable if they chose to;
Who the fuck isn't?
> NTs are more or less constantly looking for opportunities to hurt each other
Wtf
> which is exactly why the instigations of psychopaths are so successful
Some truth to this though. While NTs clearly aren't constantly trying to hurt each other, it's true that when they do they suck balls at it and there can be psychopaths exploiting it resulting in far greater destruction. They usually get away with it too. You had a good description of this earlier in thread >>10663179.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 23 May 2019 08:02:24 No.10665305 Report

Quoted By:

>>10665292
It's also why kayfabe needs to exist in the west, but not elsewhere, as NTs would never support anybody except because they hate their rival.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 23 May 2019 08:06:19 No.10665308 Report

Quoted By: >>10665310 >>10665616

>>10665256
>(since NT's alwas want to hurt others so all it takes is to give them an opportunity to justify hurting somebody else and they will do it with what seems like intense pleasure. I think they like it even more than they like sex.)
>>10665293
>NT hate nice people who refuse to cooperate in hurting others.

NTs are horrible to outsiders, but they are very nice within the group. It stengthens the group and is a mechanism that protects the group from perceived harmful individuals. Bullying in NT groups is very different from lone wolf psychopathic abuse. Your analysis breaks down when we implement the group perspective.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 23 May 2019 08:08:17 No.10665310 Report

Quoted By:

>>10665308
Not to mention that psychopaths are the worst bullies of all when they are a part of a group.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 23 May 2019 08:17:04 No.10665323 Report

Quoted By:

Are psychos socially integrated ? Are they more extroverted or introverted ?

Anonymous

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Anonymous Thu 23 May 2019 08:18:58 No.10665326 Report

Quoted By:

>>10663033
Nice, here's your upvote sir, no pun intended

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 23 May 2019 08:33:17 No.10665346 Report

Quoted By: >>10665627

>>10665211
not a rival, a parasite
psychopaths couldn't survive on their own

>>10665255
>Honestly there's no difference between NTs and psychos, the psychos are just tryhards
psychopaths are neurologically incapable of seeing the problem with themselves, as you can see here

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 23 May 2019 08:49:40 No.10665366 Report

Quoted By: >>10665781

What's the practical difference between psychopaths and narcissists anyway?

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 23 May 2019 12:08:04 No.10665616 Report

Quoted By: >>10665638 >>10667077

>>10665299
>Psychopaths might adopt abstract ethical reasoning because they have no innate sense of morality.

A correct sense of morality can only result from such reasoning.

>Normal people have an innate sense or morality influenced by their ability to emphatize with other people.

Normal people have no morality and no capacity to epathize, their understanding of empathy is ends in mimicking other people's facial expressions. No other empathy exists in NT people.

>Yes, this is the case, but it's not as bad as you wan't to make it sound.

It is worse than I made it sound.

>At least this often is a dynamic that motivates people to do good.

It doesn't motivate anybody to anything except being more evil, since being good doesn't pay off.

> It can hack psychopaths into being prosocial as well.

It is the reason why psychopaths exist in the first place, and it is quite possibly the most moral approach you can adopt in a society ruled by such evil.

>>10665308
>NTs are horrible to outsiders, but they are very nice within the group.

No they are even more nasty to each other within the group. It does seem to strengthen the group though, as they seem to enjoy it.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 23 May 2019 12:12:39 No.10665627 Report

Quoted By: >>10665781 >>10667077

>>10665346
>psychopaths couldn't survive on their own

Psychopaths would live much more happily on their own. It's primarily an adaptation to the NT ruled world, so they wouldn't even exist as such.

>psychopaths are neurologically incapable of seeing the problem with themselves, as you can see here

NT people are incapable of rational thought or seeing the wrongness of their morals. All they can do is to shift blame while pretending to be the most honest and moral people on the planet, but they couldn't - somebody made them do it, or it "just happened". Ridiculous. If you wouldn't want to do it you wouldn't so please shove your guilt in your ars.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 23 May 2019 12:17:58 No.10665636 Report

Quoted By: >>10665788

>>10663012

>"Psychopaths" (actually compensated Aspergers;

citation needed

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 23 May 2019 12:18:24 No.10665638 Report

Quoted By: >>10665781

>>10665616
>It doesn't motivate anybody to anything except being more evil, since being good doesn't pay off

Don't be so edgy, psychos aren't "evil", just chaotic and unstable.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 23 May 2019 13:43:22 No.10665781 Report

Quoted By: >>10665788 >>10665888

>>10665366
It's a whole other ballgame. A narcissist mainly wants attention and preferential treatment, a psychopath will do anything to get whatever want; let your imagination run wild.

>>10665627
>Psychopaths would live much more happily on their own.
They wouldn't last two generations. They need normies to leech off of. A psychopath on it's own in the wild would fail to think ahead and starve/die of thirst/freeze/get eaten, or impulsively get themselves killed in some other way. They can't work with each other; they just butt heads and probably end up fighting.

>>10665638
They are more evil than anyone on the planet. Evil is basically just the lack of empathy, and nobody has less empathy than psychopaths.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 23 May 2019 13:50:31 No.10665788 Report

Quoted By: >>10667077

>>10665636
NT are so corrupt the only good thing you can do to them is to try harming them as much as possible. Every single NT is pure evil, they can only be better or worse at masking it. They have no redeeming qualities and reforming them is impossible, as they firmly believe that anybody who is not a swine is intellectually disabled.

>>10665781
>They wouldn't last two generations. They need normies to leech off of.

Normies would descend into stone age tribal infigths in less than that.

>Evil is basically just the lack of empathy,

No, evil is pretending to be good and seeking justification, instead of being good and seeking justice.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 23 May 2019 14:43:53 No.10665888 Report

Quoted By: >>10666425 >>10667077

>>10665781
>Evil is basically just the lack of empathy

being empathetic actually enables you to be more cruel, because you know what hurts others.

anyway, your view regarding psychopathy is kinda outdated, the theory has been massively updated since Hare created the original checklist.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 23 May 2019 15:14:28 No.10665943 Report

Quoted By: >>10667077

Neurotypicals are trash that view everything through a social-ethical lens because their whole lives revolve around manipulating each other. Most of them refuse to consider the external world without attaching their feelings to every impartial fact. I'm unsure if they're incapable of being objective or they only care about objective truth insofar as it can be used to manipulate.

Anonymous

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Anonymous Thu 23 May 2019 16:31:09 No.10666094 Report

Quoted By: >>10666425 >>10666907 >>10667077

>>10663118
>>10663095
>>10663098
Oh look, it's just an ordinary autist subtly LARPing as a psychopath because he got romanticized with the word after watching the Ted Bundy documentary. A real psychopath would likely be far more cunning & less obvious, and they wouldn't even care about defending psychopaths

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 23 May 2019 19:24:38 No.10666425 Report

Quoted By:

>>10665888
that's sympathy, not empathy
psychopaths know what other people feel

>>10666094
>subtly

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 23 May 2019 21:56:50 No.10666907 Report

Quoted By:

>>10666094
Yes, I used the subtle old autistic art of telling it outright. Essentially autists only feel empathy with people because they are assume they are kind of like them, only there is some difficulty with understanding. Such illusion is lost once you work on understanding other people better.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 23 May 2019 21:57:51 No.10666914 Report

Quoted By: >>10667077

Yes, I used the subtle old autistic art of telling it outright. Essentially autists only feel empathy with people because they assume they are kind of like them, only there is some difficulty with understanding. Such illusion is lost once you work on understanding other people better.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 23 May 2019 23:12:16 No.10667077 Report

Quoted By: >>10667955 >>10668228

>>10665616
>>10665627
>>10665788
>>10665888
>>10665943
>>10666914
What's a meme. Simply negating all the statements. Very lazy. It boils down to something like this.
>> empathy helps you act good
> No, it does NOT, empathy makes you EVIL

>>10666094
> autist LARPing as a psychopath
Most likely a psychopath larping as an autist. He has told us he is an autist several times. He usually tries to muddle the distinction between psychopaths and autists. He does this by saying he is an autist and makes ridiculous anti-normie arguments and pro-psychopath arguments. I believe very few autists share his views. As for the overlap between the disorders. It is almost nonexistent. Studies show that almost no autists have comorbid cluster B personality disorders. It's the rarest comorbid PD cluster of all with autism.
> A real psychopath would likely be far more cunning & less obvious
Like you? Either you are getting fooled by him, or you want to support his game.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 24 May 2019 00:15:12 No.10667212 Report

Quoted By: >>10667215

I love how awareness on this board about schizoid disseases is growing.

Sociopath is somebody who doesn't share common experience that results in empathy.

Psychopath doesn't understand at all.

Schizophreniac is somebody who sees pattern that are not there, but holly fuck mom's friend cleaned my computer, my bitcoin is gone and he has opened restaurant where you pay with bitcoin.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 24 May 2019 00:16:13 No.10667215 Report

Quoted By:

>>10667212
Schizophrenia can be memory error more than deduction error, like memory is blurred and deduction is like on neural net on noisy picture.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 24 May 2019 04:10:37 No.10667955 Report

Quoted By:

>>10667077
I'm an ISTP. Why am I or perhaps why is my personality almost as uncommon as psychopaths?

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 24 May 2019 06:36:47 No.10668228 Report

Quoted By:

>>10667077
>Studies show that almost no autists have comorbid cluster B personality disorders. It's the rarest comorbid PD cluster of all with autism.

Because autism assumes incompetence, while cluster B assumes intent, and autsits assume they are fundamentally the same, jsut somewhat different, while psychopaths know we are basically a different species that happens to look similar.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 24 May 2019 07:43:53 No.10668342 Report

Quoted By:

There are very few practical differences between psychos and NTs, because in most social situations nowadays, acting pro-socially is the best strategy in order to gain influence in a group.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 24 May 2019 10:32:55 No.10668542 Report

Quoted By:

>>10663012
>t.Sv3rige

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 24 May 2019 10:44:21 No.10668557 Report

Quoted By: >>10668569

>>10665201
>Trying to convince someone
Psychopath here.

I don't "try" anything. I can do shit. Other people can do other shit. Turns out some types of shit result in people feeling upset, lied to, or whatever else. You call it manipulation, but it's not like I'm choosing to be manipulative. It's not intentional. I'm just "manipulative" by nature. That's what people don't get—it's not an intent to have a mental illness.

To me, EVERYONE appears manipulative because they're never actually honest about anything, either with themselves or others. I'm just trying to fit in the best I can, knowing that. I tried to see things other ways, but it never works. People act selfishly, at the cost of the feelings of others. So I avoid feelings and just use logic. That works. Sometimes, it's seen as manipulative, but I'm just trying to be reasonable about things.

I *know* people aren't trying to be unreasonable, but they're still choosing to have their own perspective, often at the cost of all others. I don't get why anyone would want to do that. Perspectives aren't a zero sum game, everyone is just being (temporarily) retarded.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 24 May 2019 10:53:23 No.10668569 Report

Quoted By: >>10668579 >>10668873

>>10668557
I also happened to convince NT's various bizarre things about myself without even knowing how. I think they think people are sending them cryptographic messages in the way they speak, (by the word choice, the tone you use, etc.), which apparently:

1. is extremely difficult to fake for NT's

2. Happens randomly in the way we speak.

It's their fault.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 24 May 2019 10:58:12 No.10668579 Report

Quoted By: >>10668584

>>10668569
Human communication is highly symbiotic. I know it can seem telepathic, but there is an underlying structure that it takes cultural sensitivity to resolve.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 24 May 2019 11:00:14 No.10668584 Report

Quoted By: >>10668603

>>10668579
No, it happens because you have psychosis. We are healthy.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 24 May 2019 11:12:00 No.10668603 Report

Quoted By: >>10668618 >>10668620

>>10668584
Yes... Cultural sensitivity is a trait of a healthy human mind. I don't disagree.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 24 May 2019 11:19:10 No.10668618 Report

Quoted By:

>>10668603
It isn't cultural sensitivity, only the western culture does it.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 24 May 2019 11:20:12 No.10668620 Report

Quoted By: >>10668631

>>10668603
You see hidden meanings and messages in everything because you are mentally ill.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 24 May 2019 11:23:45 No.10668631 Report

Quoted By: >>10668643

>>10668620
Pretty sure you've lost track of the dialogue here. I didn't post in this thread until tonight.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 24 May 2019 11:30:20 No.10668643 Report

Quoted By: >>10668665

>>10668631
I was replying directly to that post. You see hidden meanings and messages in everything because you are mentally ill. People from other cultures don't hallucinate like this. It's either sopmething about your brain chemistry, or there is something wrong with what you do or eat, or I don't know.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 24 May 2019 11:42:55 No.10668665 Report

Quoted By: >>10668671 >>10668692

>>10668643
I'm a psychopath. There are aspects of human communication that do not immediately occur to me, pieces of empathy that I don't have context or experience to grasp. When I first noticed that this was happened, I remarked how exceedingly symbiotic human communication is. If you were to express is algorithmically, there would be a huge throughput despite a finite packet. Computation is just my way of expressing it due to my experience with software systems.

I don't consider anything I said to have subtle connotations, nor the anon I addressed to have embedded any "cryptographic" or otherwise hidden messages in their post. There was a very specific reason I responded the way I did, and you exhibit exactly zero of the properties necessary for me to presume that you have a grasp on any part of my intent. In other words, you really don't know.

Anonymous

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Anonymous Fri 24 May 2019 11:49:37 No.10668671 Report

Quoted By: >>10668694

>>10668665
I know that psychopaths have a somewhat better grasp at this (if it's a natural ability, or more experience/less restraint to experiment, I don't know) but NT's don't do this deliberately, what they hear or see suddenly means something completely different and they can't help it. (the image, for example, is interpreted as intense fear) They get hopelessly confused that the hidden meanings they see suddenly do not apply, like in China or Japan.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 24 May 2019 12:03:34 No.10668692 Report

Quoted By:

>>10668665
I know that psychopaths have a somewhat better grasp at this (if it's a natural ability, or more experience/less restraint to experiment, I don't know) but NT's don't do this deliberately, what they hear or see suddenly means something completely different and they can't help it. They get hopelessly confused when they go to another culture where the hidden meanings they see do not apply, like in China or Japan.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 24 May 2019 12:05:08 No.10668694 Report

Quoted By: >>10668718 >>10668719

>>10668671
It sounds like you're speaking for a "but cultural is not a global constant" perspective, but most people only really mean to speak from the context of their local culture. My guess is that you took the concept of ubiquitousness more literally than most people really intend it. Most of speech is in some way hyperbolic, which I can see as being a really frustrating thing for an aspie.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 24 May 2019 12:16:02 No.10668718 Report

Quoted By:

>>10668694
It isn't about cultures, it's about certain kind of "implied" meanings and metaphors that other cultures never use.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 24 May 2019 12:17:13 No.10668719 Report

Quoted By:

>>10668694
http://www.davidpublisher.org/Public/uploads/Contribute/57eb221b41cdb.pdf

Anonymous

View Same Google iqdb SauceNAO why deleted.png, 102KiB, 1689x228

Anonymous Fri 24 May 2019 14:08:03 No.10668873 Report

Quoted By:

>>10668569
>I also happened to convince NT's various bizarre things about myself without even knowing how. I think they think people are sending them cryptographic messages in the way they speak, (by the word choice, the tone you use, etc.), which apparently:

I do that as well, unintentionally, but I'm just a sperg/schizoid. Normies use that mode of communication as much or more than words.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 24 May 2019 14:31:17 No.10668922 Report

Quoted By:

>>10665255
>Everything that isn't forbidden by the law is moral.
Spoken like a true psychopath

Anonymous

View Same Google iqdb SauceNAO VoyeurBran.jpg, 61KiB, 768x768

Anonymous Fri 24 May 2019 14:41:53 No.10668944 Report

Quoted By: >>10669407

>>10665255
>Everything that isn't forbidden by the law is moral.
As Adultery? hmmm?

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 24 May 2019 16:25:09 No.10669153 Report

Quoted By: >>10669162

ITT 4-glass virgins scientists just want to sit in their rooms, do maths and masturbate to anime girls in safety. You are no better than a cattle in your dream of chicken coup. No wonder you think of suicide once in a while, human nature inside you wants danger and actual happening, not your docile and domesticated existence of scientists/students/whatever.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 24 May 2019 16:31:28 No.10669162 Report

Quoted By: >>10669271

>>10669153
Both psychopaths and autists have much less fear and far higher pain tolerance than NT's. I think that Frank Herbert was one, which is how he came up with the idea that you can tell human by the ability to turn off pain.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 24 May 2019 17:16:12 No.10669271 Report

Quoted By: >>10669293

>>10669162
Who is NT?

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 24 May 2019 17:26:36 No.10669293 Report

Quoted By:

>>10669271
Neurotypical, as your regular western human.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 24 May 2019 17:34:28 No.10669302 Report

Quoted By: >>10669450

Psychopaths aren't that big of a threat. They are, roughly speaking, rational, self-interested agents who just happen to have no concern for negative consequences of their actions that don't affect themselves.

The real problem is not these people. Much more dangerous are the ignorant masses, who remain ignorant of and uninterested in actual political issues or sociocultural trends, but who remain ready and willing to have their passions riled up and exploited into a violent and feverish frenzy. The people who are always passively and latently awaiting a father figure to show them the path to greatness, or justice, or equality, or Jesus, or whatever it is. Greed can be terrible, but greed doesn't generally lead to true evil or inhumanity. Much more dangerous and subversive are the character traits of hatred and passion that we tend to see in a lot of well-meaning young adults.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 24 May 2019 18:27:35 No.10669407 Report

Quoted By:

>>10668944

adultery is illegal tho

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 24 May 2019 18:43:27 No.10669450 Report

Quoted By: >>10669494 >>10669514 >>10669532 >>10670916

>>10669302
The masses are ignorant largely because of psychopaths, and psychopaths are the ones most capable of and likely to sway them (manipulate, really) towards evil actions, through lies.

If you remove psychopathy, all of humanity's other problems will fall into place, mainly due to the newfound lack of psychopathic corruption and resistance. We won't have nearly as much government/corporate corruption, drastically less crime, no new sociopaths being created (and less of other damaged types), science will flourish, far less pollution, less ignorance, higher trust, etc etc.

The question is: how do you do it? Psychopathy is a genetic thing, and can be detected through a catscan. If we can redpill a critical mass of people on psychopathy, we could require all leaders to pass a catscan and evaluation by trusted experts (like Robert Hare). Said experts (and the machines doing the tests) would have to be protected from threats/tampering/bribery. I think it would have to be totally transparent, with plenty of civilian witnesses and watchmen (only requirement being no criminal background whatsoever), with all the info and procedures fully accessible by everyone. Eventually, we'd have to test everybody for psychopathy (and ONLY psychopathy) (again, procedures and results completely open to the public), and eradicate it through gene therapy or just not letting psychopaths breed (by either keeping them in some kind of prison with no communication with living guards or the public and/or neutered/tubes tied, or, if necessary, by culling them).

Once we lose the internet (and we practically already have), I think it'll be hopeless.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 24 May 2019 18:55:20 No.10669494 Report

Quoted By:

>>10669450
Good people won't get swayed to do harm, only those who are looking for an excuse to do harm, or even kill.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 24 May 2019 19:04:42 No.10669514 Report

Quoted By: >>10669516

>>10669450
You think that, for example people killed the jews because hitler told them to, or did they follow him because they already wanted to and Hitler enabled them to do it? What do you think is more likely?

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 24 May 2019 19:06:12 No.10669516 Report

Quoted By:

>>10669514
the holocaust didn't happen

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 24 May 2019 19:14:04 No.10669532 Report

Quoted By: >>10670000

>>10669450
I propose the opposite. Let's make a closed society where only confirmed psychopaths/autists/similar are allowed, and leave you alone until you come begging us to come back.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 24 May 2019 22:24:01 No.10670000 Report

Quoted By:

>>10669532
The psychopaths would just prey on the autists using them as slaves. It could work, but it would be horrible for the autists.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 25 May 2019 00:20:41 No.10670246 Report

Quoted By: >>10670303 >>10670908

>>10663068
It was my understanding that psychopaths can imitate physical expressions, but not the psychological experience. That's why they're able to fake emotions.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 25 May 2019 00:51:32 No.10670303 Report

Quoted By: >>10670311 >>10670315 >>10670908 >>10670982 >>10671003 >>10671247

>>10670246
That's my understanding too.

> Cognitive versus affective empathy

>Empathy can be subdivided into two major components:

> 1) cognitive empathy (also termed 'mentalizing'), the ability to understand another's mental state;
> 2) affective or emotional empathy, the ability to emotionally respond to another's mental states. Affective empathy can be subdivided into personal distress (self-centered feelings of discomfort and anxiety in response to another's suffering) and empathic concern (sympathy towards others that are suffering).[41][42]

>Studies found that individuals with autism spectrum disorder (ASD) self-report lower levels of empathic concern, show less or absent comforting responses toward someone who is suffering, and report equal or higher levels of personal distress compared to controls.[41] The combination of reduced empathic concern and increased personal distress may lead to the overall reduction of empathy in ASD.[41]

>Studies also suggest that individuals with ASD may have impaired theory of mind, involving the ability to understand the perspectives of others.[43] The terms cognitive empathy and theory of mind are often used synonymously, but due to a lack of studies comparing theory of mind with types of empathy, it is unclear whether these are equivalent.[43] Notably, many reports on the empathic deficits of individuals with Asperger syndrome are actually based on impairments in theory of mind.[43][44][45]

>Baron-Cohen argued that psychopathy is associated with intact cognitive empathy but reduced affective empathy while ASD is associated with both reduced cognitive and affective empathy.[46]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Empathizing%E2%80%93systemizing_theory#Cognitive_versus_affective_empathy

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 25 May 2019 00:54:28 No.10670311 Report

Quoted By: >>10670319

>>10670303
this is such shit theory

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 25 May 2019 00:57:02 No.10670315 Report

Quoted By:

>>10670303
In other words, psychopaths understand how others feel, but they do not ((( FEEL ))) how others feel. They fake affective and emotional empathy, but have intact cogntive empathy.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 25 May 2019 00:58:04 No.10670319 Report

Quoted By:

>>10670311
Why?

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 25 May 2019 06:27:19 No.10670908 Report

Quoted By: >>10670982 >>10671003

>>10670246
IDK. As an aspie, I can just shut it down the same way I can shut down pain. I think there is some kind of mechanism that makes things no longer feel bad after a while, unless and until they're getting worse. (as I understand it, NT's have the opposite, and this happens with pleasure for them)

>>10670303
It comes fundamentally from the different emotions. ASD tend to have very high empathy, but it's the wrong kind of empathy, because the emotions of NT's don't make any sense.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 25 May 2019 06:35:06 No.10670916 Report

Quoted By: >>10671357

>>10669450

People are generally stupid because they're biologically predisposed to be, not because our society is imperfect or because le ebil sociopath boogeyman is oppressing the masses and feeding them lies (of course this does occur). In terms of evolutionary psychology it just makes sense that most people dont care about and aren't interested in the truth. People also naturally valye ostentatious nonsense: breast, asses, chads, stacys, fast food, pop music, ostentatious clothing, etc. - our innate biology predisposes most humans to care more about whether people care if they do or say this thing than whether they're retarded if they think that "not all birds are penguins" and "all birds are not penguins" (which most monolingual English "speakers" do believe to be synonymous).

Furthermore. Even basic familiarity with evolutionary psychology and behavioral economics will provide more than enough evidence that the world is infested with retards. E.g. if you look at most studies something like 70+% of people refuse to acknowledge the rule of modus tollens: that is, if p implies q, and q is false, then p is false. Similarly, literally most people will deny basic probability, and in fact, if you provide brainlet bait, you can get people to deny basic rules of probability at rates of around 90% by asking them a question like this:
"Alyssa is a college educated 31 year old single woman with a degree in sociology. She is passionate about social and enviornmental issues and like to practice yoga in her spare time. Select which statement is more likely to be true:
(A) Alyssa's favorite food is McDonalds
(B) Alyssa's favorite food is McDonald AND Alyssa is a member of the green party."

He modt depressing part is that when interviewers and psychologists explain the experiment and the correct answer to the problem people will say things like "I thought you were just asking my opinion" or that they "don't understand why there asnwer can't be correct as well".

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 25 May 2019 07:12:57 No.10670982 Report

Quoted By: >>10670991

>>10670303
>>10670908
I think, maybe that is a part of the fundamental difference between you an us. Essentially two mirror worlds with neither one necessarily evil.

For us, negative feelings are temporary, while positive things keep positive as long as they stay.

For NT, negative things keep nagging until they're removed, while what gives pleasure does so only for a little while.

Which means you can hurt NT's simply by giving them less positive things than they are used to, but not us. While you can make us happy by solving our long standing problem, but not NT's.

I think if you'd show people about to, or in the process of getting harmed, the empathy would be identical, bit when the harm is already done, the empathic concern is much less.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 25 May 2019 07:22:44 No.10670991 Report

Quoted By:

>>10670982
Also, lying to us about something being better than it turns out gives net negative to us, but net positive to NT. (which is why they keep lying about things being better than they are, which we feel as hurtful) While lying about something being bad, which turns out not bad, turns out net negative for NTs but net positive for us.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 25 May 2019 07:29:32 No.10671003 Report

Quoted By: >>10671042

>>10670303
>>10670908

I think, maybe that is a part of the fundamental difference between you an us. Essentially two mirror worlds with neither one necessarily evil.

For us, negative feelings are temporary, while positive things keep positive as long as they stay.

For NT, negative things keep nagging until they're removed, while what gives pleasure does so only for a little while.

I think if you'd show people about to, or in the process of getting harmed, the empathy would be identical, bit when the harm is already done, the empathic concern is much less.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 25 May 2019 08:01:02 No.10671042 Report

Quoted By:

>>10671003
Means that NTs need to seek constantly new experiences, as good things stop feeling good, or may even turn negative, as the good feelings taper of and the negative remain, but for us things get perceived as even better, as we get used to the negative.

Also for us, a little good is still good, but for NT it may be even seen as bad if they expected more.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 25 May 2019 11:13:45 No.10671247 Report

Quoted By: >>10671323

>>10670303
So (((Baron-Cohen)))'s job is to assert that aspies are worse than psychopaths?

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 25 May 2019 11:59:33 No.10671323 Report

Quoted By: >>10671513

>>10671247
Baron Kohen has always tried to paint us as inhuman as possible, that is nothing new.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 25 May 2019 12:18:26 No.10671357 Report

Quoted By: >>10671398

>>10670916
>the rule of modus tollens: that is, if p implies q, and q is false, then p is false

To be fair, this is extremely unintuitive, given that strict logical implication differs from how people typically use 'implies'.

If you state it as, "whenever p is true, q MUST be true" and "hence, if q is false, then p can't be true", then it's much more intuitive.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 25 May 2019 12:41:54 No.10671398 Report

Quoted By:

>>10671357
I think of it as ruling out p by disproving q, since q is only true if p is true.

A lot of this language goes back to Oxford and Cambridge. "Sufficient" and "necessary", for example, are really bad choices of words for what they represent.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 25 May 2019 13:49:04 No.10671513 Report

Quoted By:

>>10671323
Yes, Baron-Cohen aruges that aspies have reduced of both (1) and (2). Being good at ONLY (1) is what makes psychopaths able to disregard others suffering while understanding their states such that they can manipulate/hurt them. Thus being bad at both means that aspies aren't able to be pathological like that, so it's not that bad. Additionally, if you read the whole paragraph you see that studies show that aspies may have a good deal of (2) while having less of (1). Hence, their empathic profile is actually tuned in the opposite way that of a psychopath.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 25 May 2019 13:51:41 No.10671517 Report

Quoted By:

And if you read very closely you see that
> ASD individuals report equal or higher levels of personal distress compared to controls.
Hence, on some metrics they have more empathy than normies.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 25 May 2019 13:55:08 No.10671522 Report

Quoted By:

This is the very metric that makes someone care about others suffering. This is the type of empathy that makes someone nice.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 25 May 2019 14:34:15 No.10671570 Report

Quoted By: >>10671753

>>10663080
>Psychopaths have very good understanding of other peoples inner life

Psychopaths are in fact so oblivious to entire modes of affect in art--such as pastoral, or its opposite, farce--that they are easily detected by their blankness of reaction to promptings in the general direction. They are also remarkably lacking in the kind of eccentricity that is evidence of idle curiosity, or levels of objectivity that can arise only from awareness of one's own subjectivity. Most particularly, they are so lame at any kind of discourse that resembles biography, autobiography, or personal essay, that they are completely useless at adult conversation in the defining sense that it is predominantly experiential, as well as impossible to fake due to the minuteness of personal memory--the habits, tastes, and aptitudes of siblings, parents, friends, colleagues--that crowd the heads of all reasonably intelligent neurotypicals, and are also beyond anyone's power to invent. They may manipulate or argue with a certain maddeningly predictable rigor, but their cognitive style is never fine enough to register the accents of affection. To the degree they seem unreal, it's because other selves have little reality to them.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 25 May 2019 16:30:14 No.10671753 Report

Quoted By: >>10671754

>>10671570
desu, many high IQ people have trouble with this, Newton, Tesla, da Vinci (who was apparently great orator, but his personal life was nevertheless lacking) were known for it, there are running jokes about Zuckerberg being like this.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 25 May 2019 16:31:16 No.10671754 Report

Quoted By: >>10671793

>>10671753
hope everybody knows what is filtered into desu.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 25 May 2019 16:42:49 No.10671777 Report

Quoted By:

I'm a psychopath. AMA.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 25 May 2019 16:47:30 No.10671793 Report

Quoted By:

>>10671754
Filthy weeb

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