/sci/ - Science & Math » Thread #10497420

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Second Law of Thermodynamics BTFO by Plants

Anonymous Tue 26 Mar 03:07:28 2019 No.10497420 View Reply Original Report

Quoted By: >>10497426 >>10497488 >>10497562 >>10497603 >>10497608 >>10497617 >>10497637 >>10497974

Photosynthesis takes simple molecules and uses light to create more complex molecules. Plants clearly produce negative entropy.

If you can't prove there is no loss of entropy in this reaction, the second law of thermodynamics is completely BTFO.

The ultimate redpill is when you realize Life on Earth is a cosmic attempt to fight back against the forces of entropy.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 26 Mar 2019 03:11:10 No.10497426 Report

Quoted By:

>>10497420
>system change
>b-btfo

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 26 Mar 2019 03:16:21 No.10497431 Report

Quoted By: >>10497438

This is so stupid that it must be bait.

Entropy is the loss of useable energy. It has nothing whatsoever to do with “complexity”.

Earth is NOT A CLOSED SYSTEM.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 26 Mar 2019 03:20:41 No.10497438 Report

Quoted By: >>10497455 >>10497474 >>10497671 >>10499793

>>10497431
Prove the universe is a closed system.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 26 Mar 2019 03:30:04 No.10497455 Report

Quoted By: >>10497486

>>10497438
Never said it was, dumbass.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 26 Mar 2019 03:38:57 No.10497474 Report

Quoted By: >>10497481 >>10497486

>>10497438
The universe being a closed system or not isn't relevant to photosynthesis. As far as photosynthesis would be concerned is that the Earth isn't a closed system because it's getting a continuous input of energy from the Sun.

However, the universe can be said to be a closed system, because of definitions. A closed system is a system with no energy nor mass transfer to and from the inside and outside. The universe by definition includes everything that can be observed. Therefore the universe is a closed system because if it isn't, then there will be energy or mass being transferred which we can observe. But since we can observe it, then where ever that energy or mass is coming from/heading to must be a part of the universe. It is logically impossible to have a universe that is a closed system.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 26 Mar 2019 03:45:08 No.10497481 Report

Quoted By:

>>10497474
Clarification: a closed system can transfer energy with its surroundings. An isolated system is one where there is no energy or mass transfer with its surroundings.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 26 Mar 2019 03:48:10 No.10497486 Report

Quoted By: >>10497494 >>10497501 >>10497628 >>10498004

>>10497455
If you can't identify something as a "closed system", then it's a purely abstract concept useful only in mathematical calculations. If the universe isn't a "closed system", then what is?

My point is that we can only observe entropy change on a localized level. Plants clearly decrease entropy, even according to your own definition. Plants input sunlight, CO2, and water and output a great deal more usable energy.
>>10497474
>Therefore the universe is a closed system because if it isn't, then there will be energy or mass being transferred which we can observe.
>implying human being are omniscient and can observe all energy in the universe, including energy billions of light years away from Earth
The fact that the universe came into existence in the first place is proof that it's not a closed system. Where did the energy or mass required to catalyze the big bang come from?

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 26 Mar 2019 03:48:28 No.10497488 Report

Quoted By:

>>10497420
>Doesn't realize energy is required to maintain an ordered system, hence net a negative entropy change
>Ignores input from the fucking sun
My only wish is you fail thermo horrendously in life.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 26 Mar 2019 03:50:46 No.10497494 Report

Quoted By:

>>10497486
No, dumbass. Earth isn’t a closed system, so it has no obligation to increase in entropy over time.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 26 Mar 2019 03:54:24 No.10497501 Report

Quoted By:

>>10497486
>implying human being are omniscient and can observe all energy in the universe, including energy billions of light years away from Earth
But in principle that input of mass or energy can still be observed and thus a part of the universe by definition.

>The fact that the universe came into existence in the first place is proof that it's not a closed system.
No it doesn't.

>Where did the energy or mass required to catalyze the big bang come from?
It came from itself. The uncertainty principle states that there can't be exactly zero energy and zero time simultaneously. Thus nothing (and I mean truly nothing) decayed into the universe.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 26 Mar 2019 04:25:13 No.10497562 Report

Quoted By: >>10498400

>>10497420
I know this is bait,but I'm biting anyway.
Thermodynamics predicts reactions based on "Gibbs" energy, which is calculated by ?G=?H-T?S. Where G is the Gibbs free energy, T is the temperature of the reaction system, ?S is the net change in entropy, and ?H is the net change in enthalpy (often considered "heat energy"). Generally speaking, negative ?G implies a thermodynamically preferred reaction, which can be achieved by losing enthalpy, or by building entropy. So if kicking out enough heat from the formation of glucose is a greater net loss in free energy than what's built by losing entropy, then the overall reaction is preferred.

Contrary, there is the reaction kinetics argument, but that involves walking through each and every step of a biochemical cycle, and I don't want to bother with that on a bait thread.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 26 Mar 2019 04:55:03 No.10497603 Report

Quoted By: >>10497608 >>10497634

>>10497420
>The ultimate redpill is when you realize Life on Earth is a cosmic attempt to fight back against the forces of entropy.
It's more like life on earth is a side effect of the "forces of entropy" going on in the sun.

The earth has been stockpiling negative entropy (complexity) for billions of years - which on a local level could seem like "fighting back against entropy", but really this wouldn't be possible without all the energy the sun gives.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 26 Mar 2019 04:59:17 No.10497608 Report

Quoted By: >>10497627

>>10497420
>>10497603
You can think of life on earth a bit like fire. It's a self sustaining chemical reaction - but it wouldn't be possible without continuing to add fuel (basically wood/sunlight).

Anonymous

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Anonymous Tue 26 Mar 2019 05:03:18 No.10497617 Report

Quoted By: >>10499786

>>10497420
>The ultimate redpill
GTFO pill-popping /pol/esmoker

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 26 Mar 2019 05:11:28 No.10497627 Report

Quoted By:

>>10497608
Chemotrophs could survive for billions more years without the sun

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 26 Mar 2019 05:12:25 No.10497628 Report

Quoted By: >>10497634

>>10497486
>If the universe isn't a "closed system", then what is?
The universe is a closed system, because the universe is everything. If energy is entering "the universe" from somewhere else, then what you defined as the universe clearly isn't the universe, because there's an other to it. If the energy is coming from nowhere, and just starts existing, then conservation of energy is bunk, but your plant shit is still retarded.

Anonymous

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Anonymous Tue 26 Mar 2019 05:19:29 No.10497634 Report

Quoted By: >>10498880

>>10497603
The entropy decreasing nature of Life becomes even more obvious when you bring humans into the equation. Theoretically, with enough time and technology (thousands of years), humans could figure out a way to reverse entropy and prevent the eventual entropy death of the universe - on a more local level, we could figure out a way to reverse the entropy creating reactions in the sun and prolong its lifetime to prevent Earth from being destroyed. Human intellectual progress is only possible due to plants by the way, which serves to highlight their extreme entropy reducing properties.
>>10497628
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Multiverse

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 26 Mar 2019 05:21:59 No.10497637 Report

Quoted By:

>>10497420
>the second law of thermodynamics is completely BTFO.
>implying a hundred years worth of physicists never heard of plants

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 26 Mar 2019 05:36:18 No.10497649 Report

Quoted By: >>10497663

Seriously, you could have made a non-meme thread about the second law being BTFO by week-old research, but you decided to make this horrendous shitpost instead.
https://arxiv.org/pdf/1712.10057.pdf

Fuck off.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 26 Mar 2019 05:53:06 No.10497663 Report

Quoted By: >>10497670

>>10497649
Dont they say that the probability of that time reversal decreases with the number of particles? 50% for one particle, 25% for 2 particles and so on, when you reach a high number of particles the probability goes towards zero.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 26 Mar 2019 05:57:14 No.10497665 Report

Quoted By:

bravo anon, you are the first person to think of this. Please collect your nobel prize in mathematics right now.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 26 Mar 2019 06:02:55 No.10497670 Report

Quoted By:

>>10497663
It happens at the quantum scale, so that was expected. Maxwell said the 2nd law was statistical and could be broken in non-statistical situations. Physishits didn't listen and are now realizing Maxwell was spot on.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 26 Mar 2019 06:03:59 No.10497671 Report

Quoted By:

>>10497438
Your face is about to be a closed system

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 26 Mar 2019 11:09:09 No.10497974 Report

Quoted By:

>>10497420
>inputs energy
>outputs decreased entropy
who would have thought?

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 26 Mar 2019 11:30:43 No.10498004 Report

Quoted By:

>>10497486
>then it's a purely abstract concept useful only in mathematical calculations
Pretty much yeah.

>If the universe isn't a "closed system", then what is?
Systems that are closed.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 26 Mar 2019 15:07:22 No.10498388 Report

Quoted By:

>quantum soup becomes increasingly complex matter which is then ordered in increasingly complex ways
>entropy is real guise!!!!

Imagine believing entropy exists in the year of our Lord 2019

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 26 Mar 2019 15:17:00 No.10498400 Report

Quoted By:

>>10497562
This is the true and correct answer. OP is baiting but if you haven’t taken biology, chem and physics courses you’ll likely get memed on.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 26 Mar 2019 18:28:40 No.10498880 Report

Quoted By:

>>10497634
>multiverse
Not even a coherent concept. All those other "universes" aren't universes. Everyone who takes that concept seriously is a brainlet.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 26 Mar 2019 23:52:00 No.10499786 Report

Quoted By:

>>10497617
this post made me chuckle from pure cringe. I think you and the OP are faggots. whew

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 26 Mar 2019 23:55:43 No.10499793 Report

Quoted By:

>>10497438
From the 1st law of thermodynamics: Energy cannot be created nor destroyed, only converted from one form to another.
Thermodynamic closed system: NO ENERGY OR MASS TRANSFER BETWEEN SYSTEM AND SURROUNDINGS.

Now fuck off brainlet.

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