/co/ - Comics & Cartoons » Thread #102463363

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Anonymous Mon 20 Aug 01:15:34 2018 No.102463363 View Reply Original Report

Quoted By: >>102463897 >>102464686 >>102464728 >>102464730 >>102464992 >>102469237 >>102469294 >>102470313 >>102470957 >>102471305 >>102472815 >>102472847 >>102472999 >>102473401

You ever get the feeling that marvel comics just are unfulfilling?

I mean, take Decimation onwards. The Scarlet Witch lead to the bleakest time in X-Men history, where kids were being blown up in school buses and sniped on the X-Men's front yard, only to be chased onto their own island, only for the Scarlet Witch to be pardoned cause Gay Son said so, and then turned into the villains for the Avengers to look good cause they got a movie coming out.

Or better yet, Dark Reign, where Norman Osborn spent an entire year shitting on EVERYONE, and the ending was just Iron Man putting a virus in Norman's suit and Spider-Man just punching him? That's it? No climatic battle? Just a punch?

What the fuck is wrong with Marvel that they can't actually have a satisfying climax to anything they build up long term? It's like they get you angry and then say "Hey man, chill, okay"

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 20 Aug 2018 01:44:11 No.102463897 Report

Quoted By: >>102464740 >>102466883

>>102463363
I think that's the real reason why people dropped Marvel in the last 10 years. People complain about the surface things like replacement characters but the core problem is that there is seems like little understanding of repercussions in a story or understanding when to pull back on things. Like OMD or AvX or whatever. Too many things feel weightless as a result.

I remember decades ago when some reviewer was praising Ellis' Authority over Busiek's Avengers just because the superhuman battles in Authority was taking place in real cities. Yet when I read both recently, the Authority is still entertaining but Busiek's Ultron Unlimited actually felt like there was weight to Ultron's destruction even if Ultron destroyed a fictional city. It also didn't help that so many comics like Hickman's Avengers there's huge bodycounts so that doesn't have as much impact as before.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 20 Aug 2018 02:34:33 No.102464686 Report

Quoted By:

>>102463363
I honestly feel like Marvel and DC comics are largely unfulfilling.

It's part of the nature of entertainment. They're these mainstream entities so they're not the ones who are going to take risks and shake things up and do something.

Like, would you expect a Seth Rogen stoner comedy to be the next Great American Movie? Or for the next Great American Novel to come from the person who wrote 50 Shades of Grey?

But unlike, say, something like Harry Potter, which has the luxury of ending, Marvel and DC have to plod along to stay alive.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 20 Aug 2018 02:38:01 No.102464728 Report

Quoted By:

>>102463363
I don't read events so I don't have this problem

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 20 Aug 2018 02:38:07 No.102464730 Report

Quoted By: >>102464773

>>102463363
>marvel
I feel that way about most capes. But I still enjoy a few comics here and there from the Big 2.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 20 Aug 2018 02:38:35 No.102464740 Report

Quoted By: >>102464793

>>102463897
>hickman’a Avengers
Well he was told to kill the universe. That’s going to leave a mark.

Anonymous

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Anonymous Mon 20 Aug 2018 02:41:16 No.102464773 Report

Quoted By:

>>102464730
This

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 20 Aug 2018 02:42:40 No.102464793 Report

Quoted By: >>102464822 >>102469120

>>102464740
He's talking about Star Brand activating his powers and blowing up his school, or Black Bolt detonating the Terrigen bomb and decimating like half of Manhattan.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 20 Aug 2018 02:44:39 No.102464822 Report

Quoted By: >>102469120

>>102464793
or Ex Nihilo destroying a city in Australia and never facing any repercussions for it.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 20 Aug 2018 02:46:19 No.102464848 Report

Quoted By: >>102470706

If all you read is events then of course you'll feel this way, the only really compelling stuff that changes status quo happens in the individual titles, specially since any change brought forth by an event will either be reversed in the solo title or redefined in it. Look at the extreme case of Captain America: Steve Rogers: if you only read the solo series from beginning to end you see a clear progression of the from his rise to his downfall. But if you follow the event all you'll see will be him being evil from the start then getting beaten by the OG version of himself, so status quo back again.
That's why you pick a good series and stick to that. Events aren't for the most part the best way to assess quality, unless it's an arc like No Surrender disguised as an event.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 20 Aug 2018 02:52:42 No.102464960 Report

Quoted By:

> Dark Reign, where Norman Osborn spent an entire year shitting on EVERYONE, and the ending was just Iron Man putting a virus in Norman's suit and Spider-Man just punching him? That's it? No climatic battle? Just a punch?

What did you expect? It was written by Bendis: king of the anti-climax.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 20 Aug 2018 02:53:33 No.102464980 Report

Quoted By: >>102465027 >>102466924

>No climatic battle

they threw a helicarrier at him and destroyed Asgard

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 20 Aug 2018 02:54:22 No.102464992 Report

Quoted By: >>102465027 >>102466924

>>102463363
>No climatic battle?
Anon, did you miss ALL of Siege?

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 20 Aug 2018 02:57:05 No.102465027 Report

Quoted By: >>102465081 >>102466924

>>102464980
>>102464992
I guess he wanted Norman to be the final boss, not Sentry.

Even though Bendis had been building up to Sentry snapping again since the second arc of New Avengers.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 20 Aug 2018 03:00:38 No.102465081 Report

Quoted By:

>>102465027
>I guess he wanted Norman to be the final boss, not Sentry.
Yeah, I just can't see that. I mean, there was just too much build up in how Norman hardly had control over Sentry to not have him be the final boss.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 20 Aug 2018 04:55:01 No.102466883 Report

Quoted By: >>102466902

>>102463897
The way Hickman just threw out huge body counts and nobody cared just bothered me. Especially the Starbrand thing.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 20 Aug 2018 04:56:15 No.102466902 Report

Quoted By: >>102467031

>>102466883
Hickman's main failing as a writer is that he has no idea how to create believable stakes so he relies on continuous, meaningless threat escalation.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 20 Aug 2018 04:57:35 No.102466924 Report

Quoted By: >>102466950 >>102470214

>>102464980
>>102464992
>>102465027
At least have Sentry pop Osborn like a zit. That's what bugged me, that Osborn did some heinous shit, and then just got off with a punch from Spider-Man. It's disappointing.
Hell, the Sentry fight was disappointing.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 20 Aug 2018 04:59:33 No.102466950 Report

Quoted By: >>102467003 >>102470214

>>102466924
I mean, that's the point. Norman got way too big for his britches and overreached like fuck. But at the end of the day, he's still just a Spider-Man villain.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 20 Aug 2018 05:02:30 No.102467003 Report

Quoted By: >>102467033 >>102470214

>>102466950
But that should be the point to kill him. He got to the most he's ever going to be, so just end him.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 20 Aug 2018 05:04:02 No.102467031 Report

Quoted By:

>>102466902
>Hickman's main failing as a writer is that he has no idea how to write
Fixed

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 20 Aug 2018 05:04:13 No.102467033 Report

Quoted By: >>102469338 >>102470098

>>102467003
he's still just a Spider-Man villain, and Spider-Man doesn't kill his bad guys

just rips their faces off
and that's only if they kill a baby

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 20 Aug 2018 08:01:04 No.102469120 Report

Quoted By:

>>102464793
>>102464822
Exactly what I meant.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 20 Aug 2018 08:11:26 No.102469237 Report

Quoted By: >>102469338

>>102463363
Could that be that there are so many characters in the universe ? I mean at some point you hit the saturation point

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 20 Aug 2018 08:17:26 No.102469294 Report

Quoted By: >>102470263

>>102463363
> The Scarlet Witch lead to the bleakest time in X-Men history

Yeah, and it followed an era when Gen X was curcifided in the X-Mansion's yard, Genosha got Hiroshima'd and Magneto turned Manhattan into a death camp

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 20 Aug 2018 08:21:32 No.102469338 Report

Quoted By:

>>102469237

The thing is that you don't HAVE to use characters or kill them off because there are too many. The world is a big place after all.

I never felt like DC is overpopulated because it always feels like characters have a niche they fit into. Amethyst was in fuckall after the 80's ended but when we see her again in the 00's she'd just been kinda doing her own thing in her own corner and just a few nods and a couple of panels were all it took. Likewise since every member of the Justice League lives in their own city in different states they never have to casually run into each other on the street unless the plot demands. Especially since when they go afield it's usually something like a Lantern going into space or Batman going to Asia to fight the League of Assassins. Yes other heroes can fight those enemies but it rarely feels crowded.

The big problem with Marvel is most heroes live in New York and when they tried to address that like fifteen years ago all they did was move the X-Men to California and make a couple of token non-NY heroes like the Runaways who mostly got forgotten about after a bit. When Spider-Man lives in literal walking distance from Reed Richards and he lives a ten minute ride out from Tony Stark fucking of course the world is going to feel small.

>>102467033

Him being "a Spider-Man villain" is a meta construct that doesn't make sense for the story being told.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 20 Aug 2018 10:05:08 No.102470098 Report

Quoted By:

>>102467033
>he's still just a Spider-Man villain,

By that logic then he shouldn't have been the main villain of Dark Reign/Siege.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 20 Aug 2018 10:26:57 No.102470214 Report

Quoted By: >>102470347

>>102466924
>>102466950
>>102467003

>why won't Marvel just kill of this popular character they're making money from

Whatever story logic there might be in killing a villain goes out the window if they're a valuable property to the company.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 20 Aug 2018 10:34:21 No.102470263 Report

Quoted By: >>102470287

>>102469294
>Yeah, and it followed an era when Gen X was curcifided in the X-Mansion's yard, Genosha got Hiroshima'd and Magneto turned Manhattan into a death camp

All that happened, and Cyclops never threw his morality and opposition to killing out the window. Then by the time of Messiah Complex he's sending a team of killers to take out his own son, and the writers started pushing a theme of times being so desperate that the ends justified any means.

There was little difference between Cyclops and Magneto by 2012, so it says more about the people who were still on his side in AvX when he was willing to risk the lives of everyone on the planet, than it does about Marvel using him as a villain when the X-Men encountered other teams.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 20 Aug 2018 10:40:36 No.102470287 Report

Quoted By:

>>102470263
It's almost you can tell the exact same point when Marvel started to randomly put writers on titles without any consideration if they fit the tone

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 20 Aug 2018 10:45:46 No.102470313 Report

Quoted By:

>>102463363
>The Scarlet Witch lead to the bleakest time in X-Men history, where kids were being blown up in school buses and sniped on the X-Men's front yard, only to be chased onto their own island, only for the Scarlet Witch to be pardoned cause Gay Son said so, and then turned into the villains for the Avengers to look good cause they got a movie coming out.

Try looking at these events from the point of view of an Avengers reader. Marvel wanted to fix the X-books, and they just grab an important Avengers character to use as a plot-device to make it happen? And then Xfags disagreed with Marvel over whether the books needed fixing, didn't want their millions of mutants gone, so suddenly hate her and are screaming for her to be punished for it? X-book writers make it worse by having some OCs die from losing their powers. She's gone for years because of it, eventually someone retcons it to pass the blame onto an actual villain, so she can come back to the Avengers, but six years after that, Xfags still won't accept the retcon and are still screaming for her to be punished.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 20 Aug 2018 10:51:38 No.102470347 Report

Quoted By: >>102470434

>>102470214
Is Norman Osborn really that hot of a sell? I mean, sure, Bendis dug him back up for another Dark Avengers arc where he was "Touched" into submission, but you kind of had a high note to end him on.

Anonymous

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Anonymous Mon 20 Aug 2018 10:55:25 No.102470377 Report

Quoted By: >>102470434

You know, I'm gonna add to this

>>Cassie Lang's Mother didn't want her to become a hero cause it was dangerous for her.
>>Cassie dies.
>>We never see her mother's reaction, which proves her right.
>>Cassie's mother only shows up after Cassie comes back from the dead, and is used as the bitch antagonist against Scott.

You had the opportunity to make some really serious conflict there, but they chose to ignore it for YA's big gay party adventures.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 20 Aug 2018 11:03:57 No.102470434 Report

Quoted By:

>>102470347

At the least, he's one of the big three Spider-Man arch-enemies, he's already come back from one "permanent" death. You have to be a realist about these things. He's not going to die and stay dead any more than any other Big 2 arch-enemy character. At the most they could try and kill him and someone would have to bring him back a year later.

Thunderbolts and Dark Reign did make him a much bigger character than just a Spider-Man villain, he has fans, and writers enjoy writing him.

>>102470377

Gillen's Young Avengers was a mistake.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 20 Aug 2018 11:48:27 No.102470706 Report

Quoted By: >>102471020

>>102464848
This isn't true at all. And that's the very point of this thread. Solos in the last ten years have become filler for in between events when crazy shit happens you get three "new" status quo issues in the solo maybe an arc, then some random stories with no consequence and then another event.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 20 Aug 2018 12:25:10 No.102470957 Report

Quoted By:

>>102463363
>comics just are unfulfilling
It's 2 cents toilet paper, what did you expected?

Anonymous

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Anonymous Mon 20 Aug 2018 12:29:43 No.102470993 Report

Quoted By:

I still hate that nothing followed this. Bobby goes insane and causes a global freeze that lasts a good 24 hours and the world just moves on.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 20 Aug 2018 12:34:24 No.102471020 Report

Quoted By: >>102472557

>>102470706
Nah, unless you only read the most popular shit it's obviously true, not sure what the hell you're talking about because the series I read aren't this way at all. They would have to be the shittiest series to rely exclusively on events to get going.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 20 Aug 2018 12:55:32 No.102471190 Report

Quoted By:

>You ever get the feeling that Prime Universe soap opera shit is unfulfilling
Yeah, I do sometimes get the feeling that the literary equivalent of a public Minecraft server, written by authors whose only actual concern is writing the biggest, most bombastic piece of shit story possible in order to get their name cemented in the industry, whose primary storytelling modus operandi is recycling and bastardizing anything that gains a shred of popularity for its uniqueness or quality, like the original Sentry, is complete and utter dogshit.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 20 Aug 2018 13:11:09 No.102471305 Report

Quoted By:

>>102463363

Don't remind of how anti-climatic Dark Reign was. I loved that era. I was eating up Dark Avengers and the whole Norman thing like nobodies' business. Then Siege came along and it failed to really make the stories before that mean anything. The premise was lame from the get go. I still don't understand why the Void took on a spider look. That reveal would have been so much better if they tried tying the Carnage ripping up thing into it.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 20 Aug 2018 15:22:53 No.102472557 Report

Quoted By: >>102472767

>>102471020
>names not one single title
Shut up

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 20 Aug 2018 15:45:00 No.102472767 Report

Quoted By:

>>102472557
Black Bolt
The Vision
Doctor Strange (either Waid or Cates)
Thanos (either Lemire or Cates, the Starlin OGNs aren't ongoing)
Royals
Thor (both current and previous by same author)
New Avengers
Ultimates

Half of these didn't tie into any event, while the other half had inconsequential tie-ins that didn't sway the main series nor altered their plot. Nah, you shut up.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 20 Aug 2018 15:48:33 No.102472815 Report

Quoted By:

>>102463363
Event comic books are marketing devices cooked up by committee that are meant to promote a company wide lineup of books with very little actual creative considerations, except for a few exclusinos

Don't read events

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 20 Aug 2018 15:50:28 No.102472847 Report

Quoted By:

>>102463363
>What the fuck is wrong with Marvel that they can't actually have a satisfying climax

You know who reached the climax without problems though? Slade, inside Talia's pussy, when they were making Batman a cuck.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 20 Aug 2018 16:03:26 No.102472999 Report

Quoted By:

>>102463363
Is that a fucking Flesh Sentinel?

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 20 Aug 2018 16:37:22 No.102473401 Report

Quoted By:

>>102463363
>eventfags
capes are bad enough without that shit

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