"That included" is not the same as being the goal. that's the basic concept I'm trying to get across to you. That's why I specifically made the case with Noukan. His intention was for Noukan to die, he expected Noukan to die, but do you really think that was itself the goal? Did you not see his reaction to what happened to Noukan? And how he mourned and said farewell as he left? That's what it means to have a goal that includes innocent lives being lost but not have it be the goal. Aleister *specifically* says that his goal is the elimination of magic so no more fathers have to have the terrible fate of being unable to do anything to save their children. He specifically says that he wants to remove magic to improve life for everyone and give them the ability to say that it can be helped. That, is his goal. Making a city that harms people on the other hand, was a neccesary step, not a goal. Aleister is making the very basic conclusion of "the ends justify the means". What you are doing, is being a moron and pretending the means are the goal, rather than a step to the goal. Aleister has never once said that he *wanted* to make AC. He told touma, flat out in no uncertain terms, that if Touma was different he would have made a different type of city. You can disagree with Aleister all you like, but you're being a dumbass if you think his goal is the harm of innocents.